Brawl - 6 months in. What does Australia think?

[The 2t]

wow.......
Your one of the most influential mods on this site. And you still know NOTHING at all. Melee is more than just "Combo combo combo" it involves mindgames, more than that of Brawl. Brawl is just, camp, camp camp. It requires so much less skill than melee

QFT...

I've never understood the people who are quite happy to talk about a game so much when they've obviously never actually played it. Not at a decent level anyway.

 

[Dedu]

And its boring yeah.

Nothing as entertaining as watching Mango vs M2K finals wub wub.
hmm!

 

[Mic_128]

wow.......
Your one of the most influential mods on this site. And you still know NOTHING at all. Melee is more than just "Combo combo combo" it involves mindgames.

Well no duh, but my point was generally it went from someone doing a comco, to someone else doing a combo, ect. Melee was combo town, while Brawl is....uh....No combo-ville? ANyway, my point is that yes, Melee has mindgames, but...

more than that of Brawl.

...Brawl is mainly Mindgames. Considering you need to use Mindgames for every hit, I'd wager that Brawl uses them more, however it is pretty much near impossible to measure.

Brawl is just, camp, camp camp.

Funnily enough, that's something I've heard too, however it applies to a good portion of the US scene (and the eastern States too by the sounds of it ) Look at some Japanese Smashers, there's no camping there. Also, check out the vids of the Perth tournaments, especially Sam's toon Link.

It requires so much less skill than melee

No, it requires a different set of skills. Brawl uses less 'Melee' skill than Melee and more 'Brawl' skill.

I've never understood the people who are quite happy to talk about a game so much when they've obviously never actually played it. Not at a decent level anyway.

7th at @M and one of the best Perth Melee players, main person I played and trained with frequently is Bringer, one of (if not the) best of Australia. Think I'm crap and know nothing? Fly over to Perth, wise-guy. Forgive me if I'm snippy, but I've had enough bullcrap like that from the US smashers.

Redact: Seems I was wrong, you're right, it was discovered earlier, but wasn't actually used much, if at all, until 2003 where suddenly everyone was doing it. I'd link you to the thread in the SBRoom about it but I can't. See if you can get Cao to show you. (just so you know I'm not just making crap up)

 

[CAOTIC]

the difference between japan and america is that the japanese play for fun. the videos you watch of them are friendly videos. their tournaments dont usually even offer prizes. once you throw in a competitive incentive, they are going to camp ~ captain jack is probably the campiest ***** ive ever seen

 

[Dedu]

play for fun or play to win?
discuss.

Is America better than Japan?

 

[CAOTIC]

The Japanese always looks cooler overall, but the US are better at winning imo

 

[Suntan Luigi]

And Australia is better than both countries combined.

 

[Mic_128]

Finally something we can all agree on.

 

[xeno]

I'd say mindgaming in Brawl is statistically less skillful and less fun then mindgaming in Brawl.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Learn to DI, Mic.
---
I bet if M2K flew over to Australia, he'd **** every single one of you. :]

 

[Vyse]

Learn to DI, Mic.
---
I bet if M2K flew over to Australia, he'd **** every single one of you. :]

Then Juggie, Sirias and Syke would introduce him to the real meaning of 'Bukkake Man ****'.

 

[Sirias]

HUZZAH! INDEED WE WOULD!

Why should we care if he ***** us? You make it sound like we should. You're pitting us against the like... Best, or second best, or w/e, in Brawl (and Melee) and you're saying: "I bet he could **** you.". Uhm, couldn't he **** everyone...? Well maybe not '****' but I wouldn't be surprised if he could **** 90% of the Smash community.

Xeno I don't know if what you said was intentional but you just said... Brawl twice.
Mindgaming in Brawl is just as mindgamey as Melee. How is it statistically less skilful. What're you basing that off? To Melee? Mindgames are mindgames... full stop, don't you think? There's less tech in Brawl so then there must, by default, be less mindgames as well. Okay. d:

GI Josh I don't know who you are but you don't have to say what you said like that to get a point across. =/ I don't see how you can say he doesn't know anything at all... when you obviously don't know him. XD Fun times there. I agree with Mic anyway (god I sound like I'm sucking up to Mic so much lmfao), you COULD combo till death in Melee, where-as there's no such thing in Brawl, really. Of course you can still kill them and not get hit, but it's not quite so do-able with 'so' many characters, and so ridiculously cheaply. And what's with everyone bringing in SKILL?! Far out, SKILL. Mindgaming is a skill as well ffs. And Brawl is 'mainly' mindgaming, and now apparently that's less skill! I think you meant tech, though. Also it takes more skill for people off edges considering you can't just stay on the edge and edge-hog, you have to edge-GUARD every time. And Melee was camping as well LOL. I don't know what planet you're on but apparently you've only ever seen Brawl matches that only camp and Melee matches where they never camp. And you say Mic knows nothing at all. Fun times, yeah. I think I slightly flamed you as well, no offence intended, just pointing out my opinion/points.

This thread really sucks.
It's all opinion-based, and no one really gets swayed by other peoples' opinions quite so easily, and if it's already 6 months in I'd think that everyone's already made up their mind until a later LATER date. It's going to turn into, if it isn't already (no thanks to me as well), an argument. A non-winnable argument considering there will always be pro-Melee and pro-Brawl people.

In other news:
I suddenly grew onto Frank Sinatra's songs.
Awesome.

 

[SS Ben]

Wait, when did a Melee combo till death become bad? So far I've seen several people stating things like "In Melee it was just first person to combo won".

It's not like there's many pre-set combos that work every time and at any %, with your opponent having no way to DI out of it. Usually if you get comboed to death you either didn't DI well enough or your opponent predicted you incredibly well.

 

[KosukeKGA]

Wait, when did a Melee combo till death become bad? So far I've seen several people stating things like "In Melee it was just first person to combo won".

It's not like there's many pre-set combos that work every time and at any %, with your opponent having no way to DI out of it. Usually if you get comboed to death you either didn't DI well enough or your opponent predicted you incredibly well.

DISCLAIMER: Also known as...Ignorance.

If you played Melee well you wouldn't be complaining. And not EVERYONE has played it for seven years. :/

(Sorry about the M2K thing, lol)

 

[CAOTIC]

I need to go back to SoCal for my Melee fix ><"

Kas - I scuba dived Sydney Harbour with Frank Sinatra's 'I'll do it my way" humming in my head ~ it was cute but i accidentally squished some electric jellies and they died... =(

 

[netch!]

You don't speak for me. I prefer Brawl, and I know a lot of other people who feel the same.

To me Brawl is less about uber technical skill and more about knowing your character, matchups and being great at mindgames. Fall speed is slower but attacks seem to have less lag. I love it! Can't wait to get to some tourneys.

Also Brawl hasn't been out for 6 months in Australia (unless you got a modded US copy).

attacks in brawl have LESS lag? there's less stun, but there's a lot of input lag. i can't remember landing lag, because my wii has not been working for around 4 months.... sucks.

 

[GI Josh]

Well no duh, but my point was generally it went from someone doing a comco, to someone else doing a combo, ect. Melee was combo town, while Brawl is....uh....No combo-ville? ANyway, my point is that yes, Melee has mindgames, but...
...Brawl is mainly Mindgames. Considering you need to use Mindgames for every hit, I'd wager that Brawl uses them more, however it is pretty much near impossible to measure.

I'll give you that one

Funnily enough, that's something I've heard too, however it applies to a good portion of the US scene (and the eastern States too by the sounds of it ) Look at some Japanese Smashers, there's no camping there. Also, check out the vids of the Perth tournaments, especially Sam's toon Link.

While that may be true, from what I've heard about the U.S. Melee game, (I started competitive play in 2007). The U.S. has lead the Metagame of Melee for a long time. Which means that whatever way the American metagame goes, the world will follow eventually

No, it requires a different set of skills. Brawl uses less 'Melee' skill than Melee and more 'Brawl' skill.

Yes, I'm sure camping, easily airdodging out of "combos", auto sweetspoting, and higher percentage kills takes a different kind of skill than Melee

Spoiler

(Sarcasm)

 

[Bjay]

attacks in brawl have LESS lag? there's less stun, but there's a lot of input lag. i can't remember landing lag, because my wii has not been working for around 4 months.... sucks.

Uhh, lag after attacks is normal (except for fast moves), as well as landing lag.

As for input lag, where have you been playing? Wi-Fi?

 

[Cal-]

Yes, I'm sure camping, easily airdodging out of "combos", auto sweetspoting, and higher percentage kills takes a different kind of skill than Melee

Spoiler

(Sarcasm)

That just sounds to me like you're bitter at Brawl because of your inability to cope with the new skillsets required. Yeah, Melee was fast and the speed and combos were great, these don't exist to the measure that they existed in Brawl but that does not completely invalidate the game's competitive viability. I'm not going to bother bringing up any points because, in all honesty, this argument should have been layed to rest a long time ago.

One thing I think is funny though - if it is so easy to play Brawl on a competitive level, and a 'newb' can bring their level of play up to that of an average smasher, wouldn't that make it more difficult to excel and establish a skill gap between you and the others - thus making the game more competitive?
It all depends on your definition of competitive I guess

By the way, don't take that last paragraph seriously >.>

 

[Cronos_Rainbow]

You play metastinker and you will have all the gap you need.
Real men play Ike

 

[Greenstreet]

real men play low tier chars

 

[Vyse]

Real men play Smash 64 online.

But also, to add to the mindgaming part.

Melee = More Technical Skill = Larger Variety of Available Mindgames.

Brawl = More Emphasis on Mindgames.

However.

Brawl = Less Technical Skill = Less Universally Available Mindgames.

 

[Sirias]

Less tech skill as in no wave-dashing, no dash-dancing (limited, rather), and no l-cancelling. But there are also different skills in Brawl which can sort of weigh out the tech skills in Melee. The difference, mainly, is that it's not as fast, and everyone thinks being fast is more skill (tech wise?) than being slow. Which CAN be true, but if you have to think slow in order to beat them, again, isn't that considered a skill.

Lol. That's not a very nice story, Dave. :C Poor jellies...

FK yeah low-tier characters. <33 It's funny with that as well, how some people think that playing low-tier characters makes you a better player. Because it's so true. d: I'm going back to Wolfie now... and whoever else is low-ish tier. But the KOOL characters are high-tier as well, that's what I play. The KOOL characters. Though Ike and Woofie aren't godly... Lucario, though. :C

 

[CAOTIC]

@ this thread: Why so SIRIAS?

okay that was lame <3

 

[Bjay]

@ this thread: Why so SIRIAS?

okay that was lame <3

LOLLLLLL! xD

 

[Kulla]

Yeah…Sylvan I did take something you said in general and blew it up to bigger proportions…sorry got a bit carried away….

But if more people are playing brawl. Then I want to play the game that is most widely accepted. No matter how **** that game is.

This is where you and I differ greatly…The reason I play games is to be pushed to my absolute limit…physically (as physical as games can get) and mentally, the harder the game is the better…The more brutal and punishing it is, the more I have fun…Masochist? I dunno, but it’s the reason that I have played games for so long in my life and will still continue for so long…

I guess what all of my ranting and raving comes down to is this: Brawl has been out for around six monthsish… I have enjoyed playing it, the few tourneys I’ve been to I have also enjoyed…But do I think Brawl is going to cut it in the long run as being a competitive game: No, I do not. The reason why Melee lasted so long was because overall… it was a hard game to master, there were so many different levels of skill, as is shown by like…most Americans coming over and kicking our arses at it…It was fast, brutal and immensely fun to play and watch… I give Brawl two maybe four years tops before it has died out from being a large competitive, tourney based game in America.

Also Mic…Different set of skills yes…but of one set of skills is harder to master then another…that would make that skill set more skilful no?

 

[Mic_128]

Also Mic…Different set of skills yes…but of one set of skills is harder to master then another…that would make that skill set more skilful no?

Depends on the situation. You might be able to perform a synchronized diving routine, being one of the best divers in the world, but is it going to be any good in a boxing match against one of the best in the world?

And I've had it. this thread is just as full of Melee players who are so stuck up about how 'bawrl is teh suck, only peepul whu suked at mele like it cos its stupid' as Brawl Disc was. I'm soooooooo tempted to kill this like every other Melee vs Brawl topic, because that's what this has become and I hate these things with a passion because of the sheer retardedness that manifests itself. Seriously, I've had it. I thought that we'd be able to discus this intelligently, but I see I hoped too much.

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Just use metahax and you will be good to go...seriously. Look at what Americans are doing. Everyone is picking metaknight. Even DSF and M2K switched mains to haxknight. These guys are some of the best so you would assume that they pick this character because he has more potential than everyone else. Even Snake has a not-so-easy time against him.
About the Sheik Phase, did everyone decide to change their mains and pick sheik during that era? I dont think so. This is a different story.

 

[Sylvan]

This is where you and I differ greatly…The reason I play games is to be pushed to my absolute limit…physically (as physical as games can get) and mentally, the harder the game is the better…The more brutal and punishing it is, the more I have fun…Masochist? I dunno, but it’s the reason that I have played games for so long in my life and will still continue for so long…

Honest question for you: which pushes you harder, playing 3 people of high skill consistently, or playing 99 people of varying skill consistently?

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Even though that question isn't for me, I'll still answer it. I would rather play 3 people of high skill consistently. You didn't you specify enough about the "99 people of varying skill consistently." These can be 99 scrubs. I wouldn't want to be play below who are below my high skill level since it won't help me get better. What's the point of playing so many different people when none of them can beat you? You won't get anywhere. Just a waste of time.

 

[Jei Jei]

awww but Cobalt you pretty much described the Melbourne scene </3

 

[Sylvan]

Even though that question isn't for me, I'll still answer it. I would rather play 3 people of high skill consistently. You didn't you specify enough about the "99 people of varying skill consistently." These can be 99 scrubs. I wouldn't want to be play below who are below my high skill level since it won't help me get better. What's the point of playing so many different people when none of them can beat you? You won't get anywhere. Just a waste of time.

I should have probably specified, out of the 99 people, 2 are good 20 are ok, the rest are weak. Something like that anyway.

Anyone can answer the question really, I just wanted someone else's opinion on it. When I played melee, I played my brother and pretty much we were the only two players we ever fought against (Darwin doesn't have a smash scene D= ). You find that although your skill does go up, after a point often you play to beat the player, rather than advancing yourself.

Varying who you play against is often more beneficial than simply playing high skill people. Or at least thats what I feel.

Thats why for me brawl is so much better than melee, simply having the massive number of accessible players makes it so much easier to play at a higher level.

If I was still in darwin, playing melee, then I'm sure I'd never get any better playing against my bro (and visa versa, people outside darwin won't be able to fight me). However, brawl has wifi etc etc, and playing more diverse people has really improved my game. I had thought I reached a plateau in melee, a point where I wasn't going to get any better but after playing brawl, I realised how much there is to offer.

Keep in mind this is just my opinion, it can easily be different for other people. (like above lol)

 

[GI Josh]

Just use metahax and you will be good to go...seriously. Look at what Americans are doing. Everyone is picking metaknight. Even DSF and M2K switched mains to haxknight. These guys are some of the best so you would assume that they pick this character because he has more potential than everyone else. Even Snake has a not-so-easy time against him.
About the Sheik Phase, did everyone decide to change their mains and pick sheik during that era? I dont think so. This is a different story.

Also I think Overswarm (one of the best ROBs in America) has switched to Metaknight

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Seriously it's getting out of hand. This MK plague. From now on no one should use him...except me kthnx.

I read about Overswarm as well about a recent tourny where his pool only consisted of 5 mk players and 1 GandW player. I didn't know he switched as well but I'm not surprised.

Jei-The Melb scene isn't like that. Most of the people almost always win at least 1 game against everyone else including against me.

 

[Jei Jei]

ooooh I dunno...
when was the last time you weren't in the finals?
and when was the last time you lost a tournament match that wasn't against me? (besides Chris lol)
You do know that if Chris wasn't at the tournament it would of been me vs you in the finals...that would make it 3 months in a row excluding our (broken) showdown at the last day of the connection tour =P
It's true that so far in Melbourne no one has taken the Ranbats home more than once but you're like...a final boss at the end of each tournament these days.

So my point is, you pretty much did describe Melbourne because it is like playing 99 people that can't beat you. Also I have no idea where I'm going with this so...uh...carry on with your Melee vs Brawl discussion I guess.

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Edit: Lets see last monthly you, Devil, Chris and all beat me at least once.

Melee is wub
Jei is wubber <3 <3 <3

Edit 2: final boss? i hope im not that scary. sorry if im so scary. next month ill try not to be so scary.

 

[Kulla]

If those 99 people can't beat me...I'd rather the three who are either my equals or better... If there are two who can beat me mixed into that 99...why would I even bother choosing the first option? But most likely the majority of games I will want to play will be with those in the upper skill brackets... In games, I enjoy losing, it means I have to progress to get better, like Cobalt said... Why play all these scrubs if your never going to benefit from it...sure it can be fun at times owning people who aren't as good at the game as you...but it gets boring real fast (<3 Cao).

But to be honest the question doesn't really apply as to why I would play one game or another...As people have said, they are two different games... (I know thats not what was asked...but it was kinda implied)

 

[Zant3tsuken]

Feeling pretty bad about creating a pretty fuggly thread right now.

Either way, the gotgames tournament will have on record a pretty decent records on how matches pan out Aus wide, and the ladder format will show how matchups pan out really well. Looking forward to it.

 

[Redact]

its quite funny how little mic really knows about both brawl and melee D:
and some of the people in this topic too D:

 

[Shaya]

Redact:

Quiet... you you... double....
something rather.

Your post is full of troll and fail. ;_;