Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[bajisci]

2.0 fix squirtle please....I pretty much switched mains to kirby because of how hard you guys nerfed him

Give me my ****in Fsmash and Dair back...you can keep that nair...I understand why you nerfed that...squirtle was untouchable..lol

but like, if luigi gets that gay *** spiking fair that combos into itself then I (squirtle) should defintely be able to keep his dair spike. That move sucks now

just saying

Otherwise I mean its still a fun game, but, after being so used to not using me shield as much (Because of shield stun) I kinda wish you bring that shield stun back, or atleast return some of it.

This x9000

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

We'll be working on it. Don't worry guys.

 

[Delta-cod]

Nah I know that reducing damage also reduces knockback. I used to screw around with PSA, and at first I was confused as to why increasing the damage of something by a couple percent was making them kill obscenely early

Ah, I thought they could be adjusted independently. Thank you.

Also, on the topic of 'overnerfing', some characters had such OP moves that they were being used to the exclusion of everything else (Ness fair), and that justifies a nerf, at least to the point where it's not always the best choice.

If you found yourself spamming one move and now you feel that your character is overnerfed, try changing how you're playing them and see if that works. Ask other people how they play them. Maybe there's something you're missing. Trust in the devs to know what they're doing

There really isn't a different way to play Yoshi efficiently since he lacks other high priority aerials (minus Fair, but that has mad start up), and without a decent Uair, horrendous killing options. He also only received nerfs, meaning that the tools I wasn't using often before because they weren't incredibly optimal are still all I have.

Anyways, just wanted to add in my thoughts with about the new Yoshi. I may be playing a bit more this week, so I'll be trying him out a while longer to see if I can figure something out with him.

 

[UTDZac]

What's the progress on that annoying death buffering problem with PT?

 

[Revven]

What's the progress on that annoying death buffering problem with PT?

shanus said this awhile ago:

Try adding in 07010000 and 07020000 into the respawn subactions and see if this fixes it

nothing else said since then.

 

[[TSON]]

Luigi+Ness was overly nerfed, imo, but I don't main them so I'll ask my friend who mains them for more info.

OH
MY
GOD

and suddenly i feel the compulsion to go outside

 

[Epic Kovumon]

Ganon is OP.

That's my input.

 

[Izaniki]

There really isn't a different way to play Yoshi efficiently since he lacks other high priority aerials (minus Fair, but that has mad start up), and without a decent Uair, horrendous killing options. He also only received nerfs, meaning that the tools I wasn't using often before because they weren't incredibly optimal are still all I have.

Well, the way I see it is if the other moves aren't very good, they'll have something done to them to make them useful. I don't know about everyone else, but I'd rather play a character that has more to do than focus on hitting with X move repeatedly. If the character isn't good enough, I can pretty much guarantee something will be done to buff them back up without uber-buffing one move to the point of godliness

 

[Luxor]

Ganon is OP.

That's my input.

Only on Wifi.


Also, what's going on with that new MegaSomething mechanic? I smell hype.

 

[BSL]

it was megacrash. like in TvC and stuff. we took it out because it caused megacrashes in the game. haha puns.

 

[Inferno3044]

Ganon is OP.

That's my input.

Luigi. GGs

 

[bajisci]

luigi and ness were not over nerfed they are fine ignore him

 

[ksizl4life]

i cant play this game anymore lol

jiggz and sheik are too gay. not fun.

 

[[TSON]]

lol whats so gay about sheik

 

[Izaniki]

I think you're confusing gay and transgendered, with regards to Sheik. First a woman, then a man, then a woman again....Soo much surgery going on D: Poor thing.

 

[ksizl4life]

lol whats so gay about sheik

alright so what can i do vs a sheik who turns invisible and runs away and crouches when im using zss? what can i possibly do that is a safe option? i need to able to hear her stupid vanish and have good reaction time to just block it.

its also pretty dumb that a guy who never plays the game picks jiggz and beats people who play the game on a heavy basis if he plays extremely gay. i thought this was supposed to be fun but its turning into a real campfest.

i couldve used lucario but you guys made him garbage for some reason. and trust me ive explored this game alot.

ill wait for the next update to play and hope this game doesnt turn into brawl+ (started off amazing, no one likes it now)

1.0 was fine. i dont see what was wrong with it lol. if you're trying to make a game where everythings broken, why are there nerfs?

 

[doom dragon 105]

1.0 was fine. i dont see what was wrong with it lol. if you're trying to make a game where everythings broken, why are there nerfs?

Comes to the logic that if everything is broken nothing is.

Some things were just too good.

Let the guys do their job the build is coming out fine and it isn't even 100% complete yet

 

[ksizl4life]

you have a point. i completely forgot its still beta. guess ill wait.

 

[Pierce7d]

Sheik is so gay, lol. I'm maining her now. Against Ksizzle, I turned invinsible, crouched, and countered approaches with vanish. It wasn't so broken that I won every match, but I feel my Sheik's control was mediocre. Still, it's WAY too soon to hit Sheik with a nerf. I can't even death combo with her yet.

Honestly, I don't feel like any single character is overpowered atm. I DO feel like this game is WAY too campy.

1.0: Many things being safe on shield led to people thinking this game was hyper aggro and it was fun. However, people realized that projectiles cold **** you on block even harder now, and people camped like crazy. Pikachu was crazy (is still crazy) because he can just spam projectiles at you, and combo off a hit. Same with ZSS now, Link, etc.

1.5: The shield stun gets nerfed, but projectiles are still dominant, and now far less moves are safe on block, so shields are good for defense. Characters with vast movement options, or warping options are still viable. Everyone else, or people that aren't at the pinnacle of these strategies get left behind.

I feel like this could easily be circumvented if more people had better options to deal with projectiles. I think something like healing when you powershield, reflecting on powershield (eh), or just buffing more characters to have reflecting hitboxes (my personal preference) could end up making this game a LOT less campy, and a lot more aggressive. For some reason, projectiles can be used at a significantly faster rate than other attacks in this game, making them really overpowered, and making their general lack of priority an insignificant weakness.

I understand we're going for broken and over the top, but rapid fire + increased range make a character ANNOYING to fight, and not even ridiculously fun to use. This is what's causing a lot of the complaints. Stuff like ZSS having a map wide projectile that stuns on hit and sets up into a combo, or Pikachu spamming tjolts and running with Bair and UpB, and then using them to approach at random is not fun to fight. It's the same reason why vFalco is annoying to fight.

I thank God Luigi is in this game, because even though he's really amazing, at least he's an aggressive character who can succeed due to having enough mobility and priority to overcome the campfest. I feel like giving characters reflectors on more of their attacks could easily help balance out the camping. Or, instead of giving characters meter to give them a mega-crash, just give them a reflector state.

Honestly, I'm about to start playing with Stanley badges on low for balance.

(That actually gave me the idea to give a lot of characters the ability to taunt to spawn a Stanley badge)

Also, I encourage the use of increased item spawning. MK should definitely be able to summon a beam-sword with his "Come" taunt. Mario should spawn a mushroom with his growth taunt (applicable against a wall), etc.

Lastly, put the sandbag back in WiFi waiting room if possible. I feel like that stage is very large and encourages camping, but a sandbag can eat projectiles, and add an element of strategy to the stage.

 

[bajisci]

The game can be campy. Last tournament Delta-cod coutnerpicked me to wifi waiting room with link ( i main gnw) obviously if i stayed gnw i wouldve gotteen destroyed by him standing and shooting **** so i changed to rob and he camped me for 7 minutes and won that match (not the set mind you) Links camping is very good and his bombs killing just encourages the camping.

reflecting projectiles with powershield sounds good imo or a reflector state sounds creative, get out with this item spawning garbge tho pierce

 

[Pierce7d]

Well, I was just getting imaginative in my head with more item spawning, and it kinda just came out in the post, but you can tell the post mainly comes with a request to deal with projectiles better. Most projectiles that are effective are safe to use even if reflected from far, because they can be blocked, clash with a second projectile that was fired right behind, or don't arc in a way to hit the user, who launched it while airborne. Link's arrows don't fit in this category, but then they were like, "Let's give him a SHIELD!"

(I seriously am about to start playing with Stanley badges on low though, lol)

 

[Zucco]

Brawl- Wifi is so much harder to play through than offline D=. Jigg's gay on it too! SEE ME OFFLINE ATOMSK!

 

[Pierce7d]

I personally don't think Jiggs is that gay. She's the new Yoshi, but I was able to consistently beat Yoshi when I learned the MU.

BTW, I didn't give my opinion. I think Squirtle was overnerfed. I actually think the balance to Falco was perfect, except with decreased shield stun, it encourages me to camp instead of approach. This is coming from someone who mained Falco in 1.0

Why did Lucario get changed at all? From vids I've seen, he was perfect in 1.0. I could be mistaken.

 

[Zucco]

I dont think Jiggs is too bad offline, just online when I cant react/tech everytime. I certainly dont think Jiggs needs to be nerfed if thats what you are thinking.

 

[ksizl4life]

no one said she needs to get nerfed. im saying shes gay. im also saying why are they nerfing characters in this game? theres no point. my characters that went even with jiggz now get ***** while shes still godlike.

Lucario was perfect in minus. hes actually perfect in the combo games but imo coming from one of the best lucario in all 4 versions of brawl, you guys made him unviable in 1.5 compared to the other characters and made him weird like that force palm in the air thing. it doesnt even work. what was the point lol if it was 99 percent buggy just dont include it.

as i said before, ill wait for the actual release of brawl-.

 

[adumbrodeus]

no one said she needs to get nerfed. im saying shes gay. im also saying why are they nerfing characters in this game? theres no point. my characters that went even with jiggz now get ***** while shes still godlike.

Lucario was perfect in minus. hes actually perfect in the combo games but imo coming from one of the best lucario in all 4 versions of brawl, you guys made him unviable in 1.5 compared to the other characters and made him weird like that force palm in the air thing. it doesnt even work. what was the point lol if it was 99 percent buggy just dont include it.

as i said before, ill wait for the actual release of brawl-.

Hey, the more feedback we get, the easier it is to balance, it's premature to bash Brawl- as a project, but definitely tell us what you think about issues the characters and version have.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I had this cool idea for mario in b-, what if you made his up taunt (the one where he gets bigger then shrinks back to normal size) make him actually get bigger and fight like that, so basically give him a permanent super mushroom. Then you could just turn him back by taunting again. I think it would be a really cool idea

 

[Hozu]

Would rather have Ganon able to pull out his sword at will than that.

 

[Izaniki]

I'm not sure what exactly you guys mean with Lucario being nerfed. Looking at his changelist:
Lucario

-Jab1: Improved IASA.
-Jab2: Improved IASA.
-Jab3: Improved IASA.
-Ftilt: Trajectory raised on up-angled version.
-Fsmash: Multi-hit attack now executes on tilted smashes.
-Usmash: If Shield is held, performs a multi-hit attack, timing fixes.
-Dsmash: End lag increased.
-Fair: Hitbox duration increased slightly.
-Bair: Slight trajectory alterations.
-Dair: Timing fixes.
-Pummel: Hits multiple times, lasts longer.
-NSpecial: Aura Sphere size and "wiggle" increased, uncharged shot trajectory KB increased, level 1 charge shot 16B angle.
-SSpecial: Grabs in the air...currently under construction.
-USpecial: Hitbox and timing alterations.

The only thing I see is USpecial, NSpecial, Bair, and Dsmash changes that might affect gameplay. Everything else listed is a definite buff. All they did was add the multi-hit versions of the attacks to tilts and button-requirements. Meaning, you can still play him the same way, no?

 

[Zucco]

If you played Lucario in both builds, you would understand why hes worse now.

 

[NO@H]

I can't wait till the next release. But the warlock punch.....

 

[Sinz]

lucario 1.0>>>>> 1.5 :/

Don't even look at the 1.2 build of lucario O:

 

[Izaniki]

If you played Lucario in both builds, you would understand why hes worse now.

Okay, well I didn't, so instead of being an *** you could explain the actual reasons instead of "You didn't play him so you can't understand!". I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong in saying he's worse, I'm just wondering what is different about him that makes him so much worse.

 

[ss118]

Note before reading this: I don't post here for the sake of suggesting new ideas or anything. I post merely to, honestly, find help lol. Rather than ignore my posts and say them as "stupid" or whatever, explain ways so that I can see what you guys see. Thanks!

ok I decided to take a day and explore pretty much every character and after reading through this thread I've come to a couple of conclusions.

First off you might have read how I said that Luigi+Ness were "overnerfed": I don't make johns, so I will say that I meant it when I posted it. Because of how my friend used to play those two characters, and how he is unable to play them in that manner now, I truly believed they were overnerfed.

However, I am speaking in past tense. After playing very extensively on Ness and a little on Luigi, I can say that Ness is still good and I like what you've done with him. I think, in fact, that Lucas' down-b should come out as fast as Ness' so that they can both JC down-b shieldbreak lol. Luigi: I've never been good with him, so I can't comment. Maybe I'll post an AIM convo with my friend because he refuses to post here but meh w/e.

Otherwise I'm confused about how to play a couple of characters. I play actively with a group of ~5 people with this game, and we have an idea of how to play most characters. However, a few that escape our minds and never really hit the field:

1) Mario- Ever since the beginning of Brawl- this character has been looked up to as amazing. Why? His combo's seem lacking, as without a proper finisher the opponent just ends up lasting for a big %. The best I've been able to come up with is following the opponent with a dair into the magnifying glass so meh.
2) DK- The barrel thing is really cool, but meh I don't see a lot from him. He has good combos and unlike mario has a very early finisher. The problem is approaching: bair is too predictable and is his primary option.
3) Yoshi- reading through the thread I don't think i'm the only one who feels bad for this one: what happened to his u-air? I'd rather have the v-brawl one at this rate.
4) Wario- no one knows wtf to do with him. seriously, how do you play this guy?
5) Zelda- seems a bit lackluster, and the u-tilt hitbox(the higher one) is weird: you have to be above the visual, not on it. Was her dodging hitboxes considered broken? Even with them she was just "annoying", not really "broken".
6) Ganondorf- We know how to play with him, but the problem is he just seems to hard to get a hit in with. There's his side-b, but if the opponent stays away and spams projectiles accordingly then what do you do?
7) Kirby- nothing wrong with him except his nair: it there some use to it being JC-able? Wouldn't it be better to have it knock the opponent upwards instead of spiking sideways? Just seems very odd....
8) DDD- is there a way to impale with his f-smash, or is that gone completely?
9) Olimar- look at wario
10) falco- got nerfed TERRIBLY! Not that he's a bad character, but he's tiny compared to what he used to be. Maybe I'm missing something but whatever.
11) Wolf- his neutral b still falls when you use it: why?!?! It makes it incredibly hard to space. His down b as well, but I think this would be good if we made it so that it cancelled when it touched the ground(similar to fox's shine in the 64).
12) Squirtle- Nerfed? Either the link in the front has the 1.0 Squirtle still in it, or all of you are weird. Squirtle is easily S-tier.
13) Ike- missed the no lag fairs and fast tap-a's. I don't remember it being broken, but your game not mine.
14) lucas- read Wario

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Orion*]

This x9001

the fact that you can actually take games off of people is a testament as to why the character is stupid. luigi could be better than where he is and i wouldnt care, the problem is you can just do random **** and it auto combos to death lol.

10autopilots

Just for the record. I kept a comprehensive changelist of every character I did. There are two ways to make a changelist: the easy way (write down the change as you make it), and the really ****ing hard way (go through the finished .pac not knowing exactly what changed and look at EVERY ****ING SUBACTION AND ACTION FOR CHANGES).

Me and kirk had that first part going pretty solid up until around 0.9... Then what happened was a bunch of changes nobody really kept track of solidly. At least kirk kept a 1.0->1.5 changelog nicely.

Making changelists is a ****ing nightmare. Like, for example, olimar. None of his hitboxes are in his subactions; almost all of his changes are not visible until you know the exact offset where they are. And then there are the ones that you need to view in a hex editor!

EDIT: /nerdrage

k. but the change list you have now is BEYOND garbage.

there has to be something better than that im sorry >_________________>

 

[Revven]

Well, maybe instead of complaining about it you could help them with it, no?

 

[Rkey]

@ss118:

Yeah, I too think that luigi was overnerfed. On the characters:

Mario: You can finish with footstool, which is a 16% spike, and sometimes up-b works as a finisher:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WccbBYgMgY

Just as an example. It's more practical to kill people upwards with though. Anyways you'll rely more on gimping with mario and damage racking than 0-death combos, and I'm saying this relative to other characters in b- since basically everyone 0-deaths at least once a match X)

Nair is good too, and Fair, and Bair or the reverse hitbox of it. you can combo into f-smash as well, like you did in melee.

DK: We all have our weaknesses, his is approaching. I guess. I don't play him much and I think he has some reliable approaches, but as said I don't play him ; P

Yoshi: his uair is ********, it combos like crazy and kills early. it's just harder to hit with now than it was before, which was NOT an overnerf but clearly needed.

Wario: Abuse him. His attacks are so weird and the hitboxes are so wtf, all you need to do is abuse them. Try edgeguarding with usmash for example, when they are recovering from below. Yuo will windbox them, hit them with the usmash even though they are miles away (WTF?!?!) and then stagespike them. ggz.

Zelda: Her playstyle and combos are nothing like you've ever played, and she needs some time to be brought to her full potential. Hitboxes on dodges made her impossible to approach, which is why it was removed. She can do crazy stuff, but she takes time to learn. U-tilt is good as it is, trust me.

Ganondorf: Don't forget your DA also has heavy armor, just pretend you're bowser and run straight at them B-)

Kirby: GK figured out that you can, with strict timing, do nair -> footstool -> repeat until last footstool -> stone anyone at any percent as a true and inescapable combo, but it's insanely hard to do. Also, Nair -> JC -> hammer is a combo, which I figured out ^_^

DDD: Sry, don't know about that one. But it doesn't sound good, I mean the knockback is insane, you really want to change that to 0 knockback? That just makes the move a damage racker, I really don't want to use his f-smash for that.

Olimar: My soul hates him, no matter what game he's in. I'm sorry, I don't know why.

Falco: Sry, I don't know much about him :/

Wolf: Oh, shine canceled when touching ground woul be genious! It'd be like a combo of 64fox's shine and meleefalco's shine. Great idea!

Squirtle: Yeah I hope they nerfed him, my God.

Ike: No lag fairs was really weird, I didn't like it at all. Low lag wouldbe nice though, however I don't play Ike :/

Lucas: JUST F-TILT AND DA-> ANYTHING THEM HOE'S! ALSO, PK FIRE DEAL 999% DAMAGE! 'Nuff said lol X)

 

[@TKbreezy]

1) Mario- Ever since the beginning of Brawl- this character has been looked up to as amazing. Why? His combo's seem lacking, as without a proper finisher the opponent just ends up lasting for a big %. The best I've been able to come up with is following the opponent with a dair into the magnifying glass so meh.
2) DK- The barrel thing is really cool, but meh I don't see a lot from him. He has good combos and unlike mario has a very early finisher. The problem is approaching: bair is too predictable and is his primary option.
3) Yoshi- reading through the thread I don't think i'm the only one who feels bad for this one: what happened to his u-air? I'd rather have the v-brawl one at this rate.
4) Wario- no one knows wtf to do with him. seriously, how do you play this guy?
5) Zelda- seems a bit lackluster, and the u-tilt hitbox(the higher one) is weird: you have to be above the visual, not on it. Was her dodging hitboxes considered broken? Even with them she was just "annoying", not really "broken".
6) Ganondorf- We know how to play with him, but the problem is he just seems to hard to get a hit in with. There's his side-b, but if the opponent stays away and spams projectiles accordingly then what do you do?
7) Kirby- nothing wrong with him except his nair: it there some use to it being JC-able? Wouldn't it be better to have it knock the opponent upwards instead of spiking sideways? Just seems very odd....
8) DDD- is there a way to impale with his f-smash, or is that gone completely?
9) Olimar- look at wario
10) falco- got nerfed TERRIBLY! Not that he's a bad character, but he's tiny compared to what he used to be. Maybe I'm missing something but whatever.
11) Wolf- his neutral b still falls when you use it: why?!?! It makes it incredibly hard to space. His down b as well, but I think this would be good if we made it so that it cancelled when it touched the ground(similar to fox's shine in the 64).
12) Squirtle- Nerfed? Either the link in the front has the 1.0 Squirtle still in it, or all of you are weird. Squirtle is easily S-tier.
13) Ike- missed the no lag fairs and fast tap-a's. I don't remember it being broken, but your game not mine.
14) lucas- read Wario

Any help would be appreciated.

sir after reading this post...im completely convinced you are just bad at this game

anyway here is some "help"

1) Mario- have you thrown a fireball lately? or maybe 100 fireballs...thats obviously a helper
all of his bmoves are good in general to up-bs allow him to kill off top
2) DK- the barrel thing is meh...i mean its an ok edgeguard but the fact that its a secondary bmove and not a complete replacements makes me not give a **** about it but like if it was removed I'd be upset...also you aren't even complaining about DK- anymore...you are just complaining about the dk metagame in all versions of brawl...bair is just how DK works
3) Yoshi- dont know much about yoshi but i do know that i do like the fact that after i get hit with just one up-air it doesnt auto mean im dead...also doesnt nair kill??? yoshi has neat add-ons but some of his add-ons still and u-air isnt even completely gone...
4) Wario-no comment
5) Zelda- you complain about stupid ****...U-tilt...REALLY...zelda is legit in this game if you play keep away...you gotta play her at a distance...I mean she is alright up close but the extra hit boxes is where its at....and 2 dins fires is legit also
6) Ganondorf- ask pierce...his ganon is legit
7) Kirby- they made nair JC-able because it has horrible lag...and just because it doesnt hit them up doenst mean its useles...jump cancel into another move if it hit shield....nair>J cancel> dair or nair> jcancel > air hammer...and once again...you are complaining about stupid ****...people don't even use nair like that anyway when you have bair and uair and dair
8) DDD- I dont even know what this means
9) Olimar- olimar is boring
10) falco- falco did get a little nerfed that is true but he isnt unuseable...all of his aerials are still legit...nair is still legit..dair still auto combos anything if you hit someone off the ground step out side your one-tracked mind and be creative
11) Wolf- wolfs neutral B is a blaster? why wouldnt he continue to fall...fox and falco also still fall if they shoot from the air...and your complaint about the reflector is stupid...I'd rather wolf be able to jump out of it like melee fox/falco then have to hit the ground with it to cancel

12) Squirtle- do you even play squirtle? squirtle is defintely nerfed...if you played squirtle in 1.0 and then play him here...try to play him in the same style...that **** doesnt work
NERF LIST
Ftilt's new trajectory makes it uncomboable...it used to hit almost straight up which leads to 2 upairs and then a aerial finisher (bair or fair or nair if you wish)
Fsmash doesnt go nearly as far
Nair water hitbox crucially scaled back
Dair isnt even a worthy spike anymore...even link can make that **** back
fair and bair both have damage decreases (which also decreases knockback)
alot of the shell super armor seems to be gone
and then if you don't know anything about shellshifting your basic squirtle will get wrecked
SO PLEASE TELL ME HOW SQUIRTLE IS NOT NERFED?
13) Ike-dont know about ike...dont really care
14) lucas- ask zak how to play lucas

I suggest you really sit down with this game and figure it out because almost all of your complaints are trivial ****.

 

[Zucco]

Okay, well I didn't, so instead of being an *** you could explain the actual reasons instead of "You didn't play him so you can't understand!". I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong in saying he's worse, I'm just wondering what is different about him that makes him so much worse.

lol so salty.

They gave him some nice little things that did help, but they took away his ability to Recover. I think thats what hurt him the most. You can no longer cancel upB unless you hit someone with it first. Any character with gimping properties now **** on Lucario. I used to be able to DI stuff like Luigi trying to fair spike you into the corner and recover saftely, but now I just die. Any good player wont let Lucario back, so its pretty much a waste of time to use him imo. Thats my biggest problem with him. He can still fight on the ground, but once hes offstage its over.

edit: I dont like how Wolf's lazer works either, but im adjusting to it.

 

[[TSON]]

alright so what can i do vs a sheik who turns invisible and runs away and crouches when im using zss? what can i possibly do that is a safe option? i need to able to hear her stupid vanish and have good reaction time to just block it.

Well I don't play ZSS so I can't help here because theorycraft wouldn't do any good. But...

i couldve used lucario but you guys made him garbage for some reason. and trust me ive explored this game alot.

Here's an idea. You know how you can use upB twice if you start on the ground? You also know how Jiggly is mostly aerial? And how extremespeed has hella ******** priority and speed? And whatever direction you're traveling in, the foe goes?

UpB off of the ground, angle it outward. Go back on the stage and repeat but try to go down.

Easy kills.

ill wait for the next update to play and hope this game doesnt turn into brawl+ (started off amazing, no one likes it now)

Look, if this is an honest concern for you, you have to let us know what we're doing wrong. This is a learning experience for everyone on the team; most of us are either new to running a Brawl Mod, or are following our instincts when it comes to balance.
IF YOU SEE SOMETHING IS WRONG, DON'T POP UP AFTER A RELEASE AND COMPLAIN. COMPLAIN BEFORE WE RELEASE.

1.0 was fine. i dont see what was wrong with it lol. if you're trying to make a game where everythings broken, why are there nerfs?

You say this game is a campfest? Well here's a newsflash for you; the campy characters haven't been touched since 1.0 (mostly because we didn't know what to do with them; now we do). They were a problem in 1.0 as well. And if we didn't start nerfing eventually, ALL of our brawls would be WHO HAS THE BIGGEST HITBOX? Which is even worse than a campfest because nobody at all will be having fun. I'll personally make sure that we try to add more cool stuff next release and fix some of those characters that are lacking. But we have to nerf. It has to be done. It's just that this release didn't go smoothly as we nerfed some "flair" on the characters so to speak.

I feel like this could easily be circumvented if more people had better options to deal with projectiles. I think something like healing when you powershield, reflecting on powershield (eh), or just buffing more characters to have reflecting hitboxes (my personal preference) could end up making this game a LOT less campy, and a lot more aggressive. For some reason, projectiles can be used at a significantly faster rate than other attacks in this game, making them really overpowered, and making their general lack of priority an insignificant weakness.

orrrrr we could slow them down V:

Mario should spawn a mushroom with his growth taunt (applicable against a wall), etc.

That's not a bad idea... But its a little too easy for something that boosts his killpower like that

Lastly, put the sandbag back in WiFi waiting room if possible. I feel like that stage is very large and encourages camping, but a sandbag can eat projectiles, and add an element of strategy to the stage.

We were already planning to do that anyways

no one said she needs to get nerfed. im saying shes gay. im also saying why are they nerfing characters in this game? theres no point. my characters that went even with jiggz now get ***** while shes still godlike.

She does need to be nerfed. If everyone played at/around Jigglypuff's level you guys would complain so much about camping that you would stop playing minus. We need to find the right level of epic and broken without promoting camping.

Lucario was perfect in minus. hes actually perfect in the combo games but imo coming from one of the best lucario in all 4 versions of brawl, you guys made him unviable in 1.5 compared to the other characters

This doesn't tell us anything, elaborate please

and made him weird like that force palm in the air thing. it doesnt even work. what was the point lol if it was 99 percent buggy just dont include it.

We were gonna finish it but then we totally forgot about it right before release because things were so hectic lol. But you see, its not totally useless, and it's not like anyone uses sideB in the air anyways.

Okay, well I didn't, so instead of being an *** you could explain the actual reasons instead of "You didn't play him so you can't understand!". I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong in saying he's worse, I'm just wondering what is different about him that makes him so much worse.

THIS. This is a recurring problem in this thread. People go "THIS IS NOT OK" but they don't say exactly what the problem is or how to fix it. What the **** are we supposed to do with LUCARIO IS BAD NAO other than buff irrelevant things? I'd personally prefer fixing the actual problem myself.


And for anyone who thinks that not being able to play Squirtle like you did last build is a bad thing, GTFO. Spamming nair with 20% super armor does not a metagame make.