Bowser, Grab release thread [Flayl is a boss]

[MrEh]

Then I'm just an idiot then. lol

 

[B!squick]

It's okay. Gaston wasn't loved for his smarts anyway.

 

[KillerJawz]

Pulling some necromancy here just to say that this:

Samus

Grab release fair

Does not work.

 

[Flayl]

Have you recorded the attempts and counted frames?

 

[KillerJawz]

Have you recorded the attempts and counted frames?

No, but after testing it with Ixis countless amounts of times, in every situation possible where he simply just could not hit me with fair, we came to the conclusion it simply does not work.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I'm ACTUALLY GOING TO UPDATE THIS SOON, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[B!squick]

I'm ACTUALLY GOING TO UPDATE THIS SOON, YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Yeah, right, and THIS is a good movie:

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/teamt/bj/tcs/25384-island-of-death

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I actually am, this needs to become accurate.

 

[Z1GMA]

Do you guys have Frame Advantage-data on all characters?
Like, how many free frames Bowser has on each character after a grounded Grab Release.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Do you guys have Frame Advantage-data on all characters?
Like, how many free frames Bowser has on each character after a grounded Grab Release.

Frame advantage is 10 against everybody except DK iirc.

 

[Z1GMA]

Frame advantage is 10 against everybody except DK iirc.

Hmm. That's odd.
Our Jab comes out at frame 8.
Ganon can Grab Release -> Jab Ness/Lucas, but all other characters Power Shields it.

Maybe it has to do with Bowser, and how he release them.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Hmm. That's odd.
Our Jab comes out at frame 8.
Ganon can Grab Release -> Jab Ness/Lucas, but all other characters Power Shields it.

Maybe it has to do with Bowser, and how he release them.

Oh, well the PK children definitely stay on the ground longer then anybody else in stun, Bowser has a HUGE frame advantage on them.

 

[Flayl]

Hmm. That's odd.
Our Jab comes out at frame 8.
Ganon can Grab Release -> Jab Ness/Lucas, but all other characters Power Shields it.

Maybe it has to do with Bowser, and how he release them.

Ganon doesn't have Bowser's frame advantage.

More specifically, Bowser is the only one in the game to have this frame advantage.

 

[Zigsta]

I've been having trouble lately landing grab release upair on Jigglypuff. :/ Should Bowser run forward slightly before going for the upair, or should he just upair as soon as he lets go of Jigglypuff?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I've been having trouble lately landing grab release upair on Jigglypuff. :/ Should Bowser run forward slightly before going for the upair, or should he just upair as soon as he lets go of Jigglypuff?

Jump ASAP, dont walk at all

 

[_Kadaj_]

Pit also seems to have frame adv. or at least neutral count after a grounded release

 

[Zigsta]

Jump ASAP, dont walk at all

Cool. Thanks, Vex.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Pit also seems to have frame adv. or at least neutral count after a grounded release

He doesn't have frame advantage or if he does he only has like 1-3 frames.

 

[Z1GMA]

Ganon doesn't have Bowser's frame advantage.
Who said he has?

More specifically, Bowser is the only one in the game to have this frame advantage.
I know Bowser's Let go-animation has way less frames than the other characters'.

Most characters have a huge Frame Advantage on Ness/Lucas after a grounded
Grab Release, though.

_________________

 

[Flayl]

You found it odd that you can't jab people with Ganon out of grab-release, there is nothing strange about that, it's normal. Bowser is the only character in the game that has a shorter "let-go" animation.

 

[Z1GMA]

At first, I thought it was odd, 'cause I was told Bowser had 10 frames of advantage on all characters except DK.

And we have like 8 frames of advantage on Ness/Lucas, but less advantage on all other chars.
So, we don't have any garantueed options after a grounded Grab Release on those other chars,
since our Jab comes out at frame 8.

How big is Bowser's advantage on Ness/Lucas, anyway?
12 frames? 13?

 

[Kofu]

When Ground released, 34 characters have 30 frames of lag, the same number that most release-ees have when they release someone; the situation goes back to neutral in these cases.

However, two characters have 40 frames of lag when released: Ness and Lucas. This allows for the chaingrabs on them as well as the moves that characters can hit them with.

DK only has 20 frames when released from a grab.

Bowser has 20 frames when he releases someone from a grab, and Squirtle has 29.

(I think that's it?)

 

[Flayl]

I dunno about the squirtle ting, but the rest is right.

Bowser has 20 frames of advantage on Lucas/Ness when they are ground-released.

 

[Zigsta]

I don't recall the exact frames Squirtle has when he's released from a grab, but 29's about right. Not enough to get wrecked as hard as the Mother boys, but enough to really, really suck.

 

[teluoborg]

I don't recall the exact frames Squirtle has when he's released from a grab, but 29's about right. Not enough to get wrecked as hard as the Mother boys, but enough to really, really suck.

Actually Squirtle gets 29 frames when releasing from a grab. It means free jab on the whole cast (save DK).

And when air released everyone gets 50 frame of lag, meaning a 30 frame advantage for Bowser.

Also source : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209846

 

[Zigsta]

Actually Squirtle gets 29 frames when releasing from a grab. It means free jab on the whole cast (save DK).

No, he doesn't get a free jab on anyone outside of Lucas and Ness. You have one frame to shield it. Most people just assume it's true because shielding on just one frame is difficult to do.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

No, he doesn't get a free jab on anyone outside of Lucas and Ness. You have one frame to shield it. Most people just assume it's true because shielding on just one frame is difficult to do.

Yep holding the shield button is difficult.

 

[Zigsta]

Yep holding the shield button is difficult.

I rest my case.

 

[Cassius.]

Everyone wants to get like Bowser. *sigh*

 

[teluoborg]

No, he doesn't get a free jab on anyone outside of Lucas and Ness. You have one frame to shield it. Most people just assume it's true because shielding on just one frame is difficult to do.

So Squirtle's jab comes out on frame 1,
And 30-29=1 so he's got a 1 frame advantage from ground releasing characters,
...

And he can't jab people out of grab release ? Am I missing something here ?

 

[Zigsta]

So Squirtle's jab comes out on frame 1,
And 30-29=1 so he's got a 1 frame advantage from ground releasing characters,
...

And he can't jab people out of grab release ? Am I missing something here ?

This is all the jab frame data:

-First
Hit: 1
Jab Window: 4-29
End: 16
Hit/Shield Lag: 5 | 4
Shield Hit Stun: 7 | 5
-Second:
Hit: 5 (9)
Jab Window: 9-30 (13-34)
End: 21 (30)
Hit/Shield Lag: 6 | 4
Shield Hit Stun: 7 | 5
Hit Lag: 5 |
-Third:
Hit: 6 (19)
End: 36 (49)
Hit Lag: 6 | 5
Shield Hit Stun: 7 | 5

Now I gladly admit I'm not a pro at frames by any means, but it's a known fact that Squirtle's grab release isn't a true combo. I've had all three of jabs powershielded by PhantomX many times.

It's one of the main reasons I rarely ever jab after a grab release any more.

 

[Flayl]

Can't you mix jabs and grabs? The jab will hit if he tries to spotdodge right?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Might as well throw out a upsmash then.

 

[Flayl]

Does the hitbox remain strong on frame 22? If so yeah that would be a nice mixup.

Wouldn't it be awesome if we were advancing Squirtle's metagame in idle chatter.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Does the hitbox remain strong on frame 22? If so yeah that would be a nice mixup.

Wouldn't it be awesome if we were advancing Squirtle's metagame in idle chatter.

We're simply talking about something every character can do lol.

Ike could do it with fsmash prob, same with Ganon.

 

[Flayl]

Ganon you can just run away from a grab-release and he can't do anything.

edit: Better yet, you can punish him for grab-releasing you by using moves like MK's DSmash. "Foo, you ain't bowser, gtfo"

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ganon you can just run away from a grab-release and he can't do anything.

edit: Better yet, you can punish him for grab-releasing you by using moves like MK's DSmash. "Foo, you ain't bowser, gtfo"

lol, urite, I forgot we were using squirtles jab as a mixup to create a spotdodge bait.

 

[KingKong_ad]

we should add all the ground and air release we can do on sv's platforms, some are pretty nasty.
lol we can uair olimar after an air release.




also we can uair wario after an air release but I dont if it kills faster than an utilt or usmash.

I would like to help with that but I dont really know how to be sure if it works at 100%

 

[Zigsta]

Do those GRs you mentioned work on all flat platforms, KK?

 

[Cassius.]

The GR SHUAir on Wario works on all flatplats, but how the **** do you UAir Olimar?