Bowser, Grab release thread [Flayl is a boss]

[Flayl]

As long as you get the same result I don't think it matters if you short hop + double jump or full hop it

Also you quoted the Yoshi grab release, which honestly I don't know what it needs.

 

[GimR]

Everyone has 21 frames to hit their opponent except for Bowser who has 31 frames. Ness, Lucas and Donkey Kong obviously change this though when you release them

 

[Zigsta]

Doesn't Luigi have different properties when grab released, or is that just due to his slidyness, for lack of a better term?

 

[Cassius.]

AFAIK Luigi doesn't slide far at all when you release him, and we can FAir him out of the Air Release...

or is that Mario?

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah, we can fair Luigi out of aerial GR. His ground GR's funny, though, as he kinda slides farther than other characters.

 

[Cassius.]

Not that far though, we can still do everything we normally do to other characters (klaw dtilt etc)

unless you're talking about the actual distance and how he's not right in Bowser's face or something like that

 

[Zigsta]

unless you're talking about the actual distance and how he's not right in Bowser's face or something like that

That, haha.

Just makes the spacing different.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Not that far though, we can still do everything we normally do to other characters (klaw dtilt etc)

unless you're talking about the actual distance and how he's not right in Bowser's face or something like that

I'm pretty sure Luigi slides really far.

 

[Cassius.]

I'm pretty sure Luigi slides really far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-QaTjaOH8I#t=1m15s

I guess so but...we can still Klaw out of the release ._.

I'm confused.

 

[Poltergust]

Dang, Polt definitely told me he had 10.

GET EXPOSED, POLTERGUST!

Huh? I never said anything like that. I said that we have 3 frames of leniency to pull off the u-air.

Also, Yoshi doesn't need to double-jump to hit Jigglypuff.

 

[B!squick]

Luigi is also one of the few characters DeDeDe can standing DThrow infinite despite the major sliding.

 

[Flayl]

AWESOME NEWS GUYS!

It turns out the window for opponents to jump break out is smaller than I first thought!

If you pummel perfectly (once every 27/28 frames), the only frames they can jump out is during the startup (8 frames) of the pummel. It turns out they will ground release during the "cooldown" of the headbutt.

So that means if your opponent is just mashing they have a 29% "chance" of jumping out if you pummel perfectly!

With 4 frames of room for error, this means a 38% "chance" of jumping out.

I say "chance" because it's not random at all, it's just that it's humanly impossible to predict the break out frames without a large amount of frames of error.

And now for some sad news: There are some klaw and chiangrab releases on the list that don't work if the opponent mashes jump/spotdodge. Hopefully you'll see when the revised list comes out.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

AWESOME NEWS GUYS!

It turns out the window for opponents to jump break out is smaller than I first thought!

If you pummel perfectly (once every 27/28 frames), the only frames they can jump out is during the startup (8 frames) of the pummel. It turns out they will ground release during the "cooldown" of the headbutt.

So that means if your opponent is just mashing they have a 29% "chance" of jumping out if you pummel perfectly!

With 4 frames of room for error, this means a 38% "chance" of jumping out.

I say "chance" because it's not random at all, it's just that it's humanly impossible to predict the break out frames without a large amount of frames of error.

And now for some sad news: There are some klaw and chiangrab releases on the list that don't work if the opponent mashes jump/spotdodge. Hopefully you'll see when the revised list comes out.

Interesting. I'll have to somehow practice my grab releases again.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

And now for some sad news: There are some klaw and chiangrab releases on the list that don't work if the opponent mashes jump/spotdodge. Hopefully you'll see when the revised list comes out.

Yep, I'm using frame advance, so everything should be correct this time!

My testing is currently at a halt until after MLG DC, I lent my Wii to Xzax so he could practice because he's going and I'm not.

 

[dskank]

so is the wario air gr infinate?
can i see some video of this?

 

[Uncle]

Yo Bowser boards, I'm a Bowser/DK main and I can't wait to see this thread updated. I'd also like to contribute what I can around here. Gotta keep reppin' the King and improving his game.

 

[Cassius.]

Good luck. Nice to see you on the boards. Welcome!

 

[B!squick]

Yes, welcome. And might as well get my good-byes in while you're still here.

Good-bye.

 

[Dumbfire]

Hey you said that to me too and I stayed D:

 

[B!squick]

Admit it though, you go to the Ganon board more than this one.

 

[Dumbfire]

Ganon boards are more active and I don't like Pokemon lol.

 

[Flayl]

Ganon boards are more active and I don't like Pokemon lol.

Pokemon talk only started like 6 days ago, that's a poor excuse.

 

[Dumbfire]

I'm as active as possible I promise.
I just dont' add to discussions where I don't know anything about, wich is basicly anything actually useful about Bowser.

And I'm a troll and a ****so I'm always scared that I say something wrong..

 

[Cassius.]

Well just change the subject. People will reply to it eventually after we Finish helping Flayl. lol

If you don't know anything useful about Bowser, start asking and become more knowledgeable. There's no point sitting with no knowledge when you're in the Q&A thread for Christ's sake. Do something.

 

[Flayl]

Characters that normally air relase are DI'ing away from Bowser for the ground release tests.

---Guaranteed air release OverB---
Wario -> Jump and klaw in place
Popo/Nana -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Mr. Game & Watch -> Dash a bit, full hop klaw
Ness -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Squirtle -> Dash a while, klaw
Ivysaur -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Lucas -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw (frame perfect)
Mario -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Jigglypuff -> Jump, double jump klaw

--Ground Release--
OverB without moving:
Falco
Lucario
Toon Link
Sheik
Charizard
Bowser
Link
Ganondorf

Stutter step OverB (1 or 2 frames of dashing):
Meta Knight
Snake
Marth
Olimar
King Dedede
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby
Fox
R.O.B.
Peach
Luigi
Wolf
Sonic
Lucas
Samus

Dash OverB (3 frames of dashing AKA frame perfect):
Diddy Kong
Pikachu

Can't (character can spotdodge/use a move invincible on frame 1 before you reach him/her):
Pit
Donkey Kong
Ike
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Zelda

 

[Dumbfire]

Great job Flayl. I already started on learning those and I made a list in a notebook.

 

[Zigsta]

Great work, Flayl.

Memorizing these after I memorize History vocab words these next two days.

 

[B!squick]

Neat. I approve.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Good work Flayl, I'm getting my wii back very soon from Xzax, so my research will continue as well.

 

[MrEh]

I'm pretty sure you can Klaw Zelda out of a grab release. Super hard and not worth doing though. :/

 

[Cassius.]

Well, we strive for frame perfection.

So OCD.

/joke

 

[Flayl]

I just confirmed Bowser has 11 frames of advantage out of ground-release and 31 frames of advantage out of air-release, which means ground release DownB is indeed legit. Just remember that the buffering of the DownB will be cancelled by your crouch if you hold the control stick too far down.

It also means I need to retest a bunch of the klaw releases lol. Captain Falcon & Zelda might be the new frame perfect, while Diddy and Pikachu are just... hard I guess.

11 frames to hit someone out of a ground-release
12 frames to grab someone out of a ground-release if they don't have a move invincible frame 1
13 frames to grab someone out of a ground-release if they are Olimar or Jigglypuff

For characters that end their air-releases in the air:
31 frames to hit/grab someone out of an air-release if they have a move invincible frame 1
33 frames to hit/grab Meta Knight out of an air-release if he tries to dodge/attack
34 frames to hit/grab most people if they only try to airdodge or hit with a frame 3 move

Jumping messes the air-release advantage in different ways for each character. Characters that fall to the ground in their air-release get to shield early.

 

[Flayl]

Revised list for grab-release klaws
---Guaranteed air release OverB---
Meta Knight -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw (hard?)
Wario -> Jump and klaw in place
Popo/Nana -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Olimar -> Dash a bit, full hop klaw (frame perfect)
Mr. Game & Watch -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Toon Link -> Dash a bit, full hop klaw
Kirby -> Dash a bit, full hop klaw
Ness -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Squirtle -> Dash a while, klaw
Ivysaur -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Lucas -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Mario -> Dash a bit, short hop klaw
Jigglypuff -> Jump, double jump klaw

---Ground Release---
OverB without moving:
Falco
Lucario
Sheik
Charizard
Bowser
Link
Ganondorf

Stutter step OverB (1 or 2 frames of dashing):
Meta Knight
Snake
Marth
Olimar
King Dedede
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
R.O.B.
Peach
Luigi
Wolf
Sonic
Samus

Dash OverB (3 frames of dashing AKA hard):
Diddy Kong
Pikachu

Frame perfect (4 frames of dashing):
Captain Falcon
Zelda

Can't (character can spotdodge/use a move invincible on frame 1 before you reach him/her):
Pit (Wings of Icarus)
Donkey Kong
Ike
Yoshi

Meta Knight can actually be air-released into klaw... The timing feels weird compared to every other short hop klaw. I've managed to do it but not consistently. One of the grab-releases you should definitely practice by itself if you have MKs in your region.

The grab-release klaws can be placed in these different categories in terms of practicing:
- Meta Knight's air release (unique)
- Wario's air release (unique)
- Kirby's air release (full hop klaw)
- Mr. G&W's air release (short hop klaw)
- Squirtle's air release (unique)
- Jigglypuff's air release (unique)
- Pikachu's pummel release
- Diddy Kong's ground release

 

[Zigsta]

This has been brought up before prior to Flayl's testing: Can we aerial GR MK to Klaw offstage? Or are all of these GR Klaws applicable only while onstage?

 

[Flayl]

You can if you have space for at least 3 frames of Bowser's dash animation (not hard since he barely goes anywhere, you just need the momentum)

edit: Actually you also need space for Bowser's jump squat animation or else he just falls off the stage.

 

[Flayl]

Here's my grab-release data so far (it's incomplete): http:///flayl.tengun.net/grabrelease.xlsx

I'm going to take the cheat sheet (the third worksheet) with me to Spain

 

[Zigsta]

GREAT work, Flayl.

I'm printing this out and bringing with me to the tournament I'm going to Saturday.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Flayl is def doing work atm, good stuff.

 

[B!squick]

Now you don't have to worry about doing it yourself. :D Or are you going to finish up what you started so we have two sets of notes to compare?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Now you don't have to worry about doing it yourself. :D Or are you going to finish up what you started so we have two sets of notes to compare?

Still working on releases through frame advance.