Bowser, Grab release thread [Flayl is a boss]

[B!squick]

Cool beans.

 

[Flayl]

DownB is more finnicky about the control stick than DTilt.

Luckily I found a method to get a guranteed DTilt/DownB without crouching... with my controller. It's only viable at high %s.

You put the nail of your thumb on one of the bottom borders of the control stick socket and push the stick down with your index finger against your nail.

I fumbled doing this but I mess up doing anything (I messed up 80%+ of my grab releases the last two days)

 

[Z1GMA]

How big a role does Bowser's garantueed Grab Release -> Regrab play on his Tier Placement?

I feel Bottom Tier is too low for a character who can Grab Release Infinite the majority of the characters.

 

[Cassius.]

Well, it's pretty important...considering all of the moves Bowser can perform out of it, and how many options and situations he can create/reset just off of one grab/a simple follow up..

if you follow what I'm saying, it's very helpful.

Bowser's klaw is extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely important imo however. if he had melee's klaw we would have had problems.

 

[Z1GMA]

If a CPU was programmed to:
*Grab -> Pummel + Forced Ground Release -> Regrab*
with 100% Success Rate, wouldn't that make him **** pretty much
all characters he has 'Regrab' on?

Tripping exclued -_-'

 

[Flayl]

Bowser can't infinite the majority of the characters, the only character he can infinite is Wario.

And the answer to your question is: Depends on the release distance, but in the majority of the cases Dedede's chaingrab is better. We have better finishing options though.

 

[Z1GMA]

Bowser can't infinite the majority of the characters, the only character he can infinite is Wario.

I ment Grab Release Chain Grab.

Are there any Bowsers skilled enough at it to do it all across FD in a real match?

Bowser's CG is much harder to do rhan IC's :/

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I ment Grab Release Chain Grab.

Are there any Bowsers skilled enough at it to do it all across FD in a real match?

Bowser's CG is much harder to do rhan IC's :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF1N8kX9vKg

1:50

 

[Z1GMA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF1N8kX9vKg

1:50

I'll admit that was sexy as hell.
Especially with that Klaw at the end of it.

 

[Zigsta]

38% damage is NASTY.

I'm practicing this to do to Espy.

 

[MrEh]

I can do it. It's good fun.

 

[Z1GMA]

So at higher %'s, Bowser should be able to deal around 70% instead of 38%,
cosidering he's able to pummel twice, right.

Which means, if you grab someone by the ledge when he's at like 80%,
it is pretty much a garantueed KO if you've got enough skill and cool?

I feel I'm asking retorical questions -_-'

 

[Cassius.]

He's able to pummel twice but people can mash out and stuff like that.

And it's not guaranteed. It depends on when the enemy is released, as in, what frames and during what animation. You can force ground releases all of the time if you pummel a certain way but...you know.

And 80% damage isn't guaranteed to kill everyone..you're not going to kill Snake with that (if he's sensible about DI'ing and stuff)

 

[Z1GMA]

You can force ground releases all of the time if you pummel a certain way but...you know.
By buffering the pummel?

And 80% damage isn't guaranteed to kill everyone
No, but most ppl, 'cause when you've CGd them across the stage they're at like 130%

__________________

 

[Cassius.]

Depending on if the enemy is released before/after/in the middle of Bowser's pummel animation, the enemy will be ground or air released. I forget which does which but Flayl put it somewhere.

 

[Flayl]

You can't buffer pummels. The best way to force a ground-release is to pummel every 28 frames. Even then there are parts when the opponent can escape (I don't know why Limit said otherwise).

It's not very common to grab someone right at the edge of the stage, so it's not very realistic to think "I grabbed him at 80%, he's going to die". Two thirds of the cast cannot be re-grabbed if they air release.

Also I can do it in training mode, just not when it matters =/

If you guys think 38% is that much you should see Dedede's chaingrab to BThrow, lol.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

You can't buffer pummels. The best way to force a ground-release is to pummel every 28 frames. Even then there are parts when the opponent can escape (I don't know why Limit said otherwise).

It's not very common to grab someone right at the edge of the stage, so it's not very realistic to think "I grabbed him at 80%, he's going to die". Two thirds of the cast cannot be re-grabbed if they air release.

Also I can do it in training mode, just not when it matters =/

If you guys think 38% is that much you should see Dedede's chaingrab to BThrow, lol.

Bowser can still chaingrab more characters, and into kill moves.

 

[Z1GMA]

edit: never mind.

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

Sigh I'm still pretty noob with ground release timings. So every 28 frames I should pummel huh?..

 

[Cassius.]

Well, if you can figure out when "every 28 frames" happens, then go for it..

People can still escape, humans aren't perfect. We make mistakes.

I just try to react as quickly as possible to what happens if it's not a ground release. I'm terrible with frame stuff.

Yeah, i don't know what I was saying earlier Flayl

 

[Flayl]

http://webmetronome.com/?t=128&b=1&a=0

 

[Hobobloke]

Generally you can tell by their percent and how hard they're mashing when you should pummel to get a ground break. It's obviously not full-proof but it works most of the time.

 

[B!squick]

In other words, you learn through experience.

 

[Flayl]

Guys, what are the best way to buffer stuff (without C-stick)?

For Dash-Grab I have: Tap diagonal Down-Forward then Z

For FTilt I have: Hold the control stick forward while pummeling, let go and press A at the same time to buffer

For DTilt and DownB I have: Hold the control stick down to the "sweetspot" area, mash A or B

For pivot-grab I still need to figure it out.

For longer dashes I don't know if there's a better way than timing the tapping of the control stick. If you buffer a dash can you continue it if you let go?

 

[Dumbfire]

I do the same for the first 3.
I geuss its just whats easiest for you, lol.

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah, that's exactly what I input, Flayl; although I'm having trouble consistently buffering regrabs properly.

 

[Cassius.]

For Pivot grabbing, since it needs to be a true pivot, I flick the stick backwards and forwards (but let it sit at the neutral position) and then press z...

well, it's really complicated to explain. and i know it probably just sounds like an ordinary pivot grab in text.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c

 

[bigman40]

Guys, what are the best way to buffer stuff (without C-stick)?

For DTilt and DownB I have: Hold the control stick down to the "sweetspot" area, mash A or B

For pivot-grab I still need to figure it out.

For longer dashes I don't know if there's a better way than timing the tapping of the control stick. If you buffer a dash can you continue it if you let go?

If you want to buffer stuff without the C-stick, then you have to be faster to buffer the control stick input + A/B button; however, I don't know how you could buffer tilts.

What do you mean when you say sweetspot area?

For pivot grab, if you're fingers are broken fast, then you can attempt to buffer it all by using the inputs given from innocentroads. Though it's fairly impractical since it's not guaranteed to ground break opponents.

Yes you can continue the dash as long as you slam the stick back to it's position before Bowser stops his dash.

 

[Dumbfire]

I couldn't play for a week or 2 because my fingers got screwed by my heavy buffering from grabs.. So uhm yeah, watch out.

 

[Flayl]

By sweetspot area I mean the location to put the control stick so you can DownB while standing.

 

[Cassius.]

Oh...well yeah, I just hold it low enough so I don't crouch but so I can DTilt/DownB out.

i guess that's the sweetspot? lol

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

It seems ****ing impossible to do that many inputs in that space of time. What are you actually doing with the control stick? Quarter circle back down back forward +z?

 

[Flayl]

It seems ****ing impossible to do that many inputs in that space of time. What are you actually doing with the control stick? Quarter circle back down back forward +z?

Yes you can do that (I'm going to ask if you can input a diagonal instead of straight down)

There's also this method using the C-stick:

- Hold A.
- input Dash backwards (you can hold the stick)
- C-Stick down
- you'll dash here because the button input is like (facing right) left down left but you have to release the controlstick and A at this point.
- stick in [forward] direction + Grab

it's still hard to do because you have to release the stick in time but It becomes much easier with this methode =D

 

[CaLibUr_1337]

I see thanks. Chances are when ground releases you would still be holding A anyway. I'll give it a try tomorrow.

 

[Flayl]

I filled up the chart

http://flayl.tengun.net/grabrelease.xlsx

Next week I'll add offstage options for the fast-fallers and maybe slope-release options for the smaller characters.

We should get someone to do easily readable images for the following 3 tables:
Ground-release
Air-release
Best Options

 

[Dumbfire]

Thanks Flayl, looks awesome!
One with the best options would espiecally be really useful. Those are the most importatn to memorize then, I geuss.

 

[Uncle]

I'm a little confused by the spreadsheet, Flayl. What is the difference between "Wait & React" and "Pummel" under the chaingrab column of the Best Options tab? Shouldn't you always be pummeling your grabbed opponent, unless you want an air release?

 

[Dumbfire]

He means that you HAVE to pummel to get a ground release. Aka if you don't they always air release.
Like with Wario.

 

[Flayl]

"Wait and react" means you can chaingrab the character through both of their releases which means it's safer to pummel # times then see if the character goes up or not and react accordingly.

"Pummel" means you can only reliably chaingrab the character through a ground-release, which means you should pummel as often as physically possible and prepare to input a buffered dash grab as soon as you see the opponent break.

 

[Dumbfire]

Oh, my bad. :s