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- Thread starter SinkingHigher
- Start date
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I'll give you a hint silver, it's in your sig.
Villi
Smash Lord
Only in a world where baiting doesn't exist, i.e., matchup threads.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
New Tech:
Tether Stall.
When grabbing the ledge, flick the joystick in the opposite direction to the ledge, then immediately flick it the other way and hold it, then press B. You will begin a new tether from which you can time your invincibility frames to edgeguard an incoming upB which may have otherwise stagespiked you.
This may be known, and tether stall is the best suitable name I can think of, though it is not an infinite stall. There is a brief period of vulnerability, but this is to be used when you want to begin a new tether without leaving the ledge open for someone to grab on to.
Also, I'm working on something that could be cool with needles. It involves SHing behind your opponent, flicking the joystick backwards and hitting the opponent from behind. This will force them to slide into you during the hitstun.(See East's hurtbox thread for info). At this point the position is PERFECT for a grab, chainlock, f-tilt lock, etc... (Perhaps even needlepull > footstool if you can get in that position.) The problem is Sheik has MAJOR landing lag from aerial needles. Until I find a way around that **** lag...
This is a question more than a statement, but I've been practicing what I call "infinite n-air".
I'm sure there is another name for this, but I forget, so...
Basically landing lag on a well timed SHFFn-air or just SHn-air results in practically zero landing lag. If you continuously swipe x>a (while holding forwards or backwards when pressing X) you can have sheik remain in n-air position for as long as you wish. Of course you are not invincible, but what do you guys think of using this as an approach? N-air covers you front and back, but you're still quite open. It's kinda scary to be approached with a constant stream of n-airs though.
Tether Stall.
When grabbing the ledge, flick the joystick in the opposite direction to the ledge, then immediately flick it the other way and hold it, then press B. You will begin a new tether from which you can time your invincibility frames to edgeguard an incoming upB which may have otherwise stagespiked you.
This may be known, and tether stall is the best suitable name I can think of, though it is not an infinite stall. There is a brief period of vulnerability, but this is to be used when you want to begin a new tether without leaving the ledge open for someone to grab on to.
Also, I'm working on something that could be cool with needles. It involves SHing behind your opponent, flicking the joystick backwards and hitting the opponent from behind. This will force them to slide into you during the hitstun.(See East's hurtbox thread for info). At this point the position is PERFECT for a grab, chainlock, f-tilt lock, etc... (Perhaps even needlepull > footstool if you can get in that position.) The problem is Sheik has MAJOR landing lag from aerial needles. Until I find a way around that **** lag...
This is a question more than a statement, but I've been practicing what I call "infinite n-air".
I'm sure there is another name for this, but I forget, so...
Basically landing lag on a well timed SHFFn-air or just SHn-air results in practically zero landing lag. If you continuously swipe x>a (while holding forwards or backwards when pressing X) you can have sheik remain in n-air position for as long as you wish. Of course you are not invincible, but what do you guys think of using this as an approach? N-air covers you front and back, but you're still quite open. It's kinda scary to be approached with a constant stream of n-airs though.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
The constant stream of n-airs would be excellent but wouldn't that take away one of our best KO options? On the other hand, a nice new way to approach would be great, plus the soft hitbox could lead straight into f-tilt. Would it work like an ISJR such as Bowser's with his claw or just constant AC n-airs?
Yea, I also wanted to ask how to properly use the chain against MK. Anytime I used it, it seemed like there was always a hole for him to get through. I usually go with a 360 degree motion really fast and slow down when I can get hits to try and build the damage, going back to 360 if necessary. He still got through! I understand where your coming from SinkingHigher, greatly annoying when he still finds his way through.
Yea, I also wanted to ask how to properly use the chain against MK. Anytime I used it, it seemed like there was always a hole for him to get through. I usually go with a 360 degree motion really fast and slow down when I can get hits to try and build the damage, going back to 360 if necessary. He still got through! I understand where your coming from SinkingHigher, greatly annoying when he still finds his way through.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Sorry Double Post
SinkingHigher, could we also do what you are mentioning with spaced Bair? If we can do it with Bair, than we get to keep one of our better KO options since a lot of the time we may have a bit of trouble killing as is.
SinkingHigher, could we also do what you are mentioning with spaced Bair? If we can do it with Bair, than we get to keep one of our better KO options since a lot of the time we may have a bit of trouble killing as is.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
SinkingHigher-----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7NUUYlatXQ
Watch the whole thing. Choknater has used this 'tech' for a long time now. Although more for flair, fun, and style points rather than the tech that you are suggesting.
ScaryLB, Bair spacing is great for spacing, and also bait because it autocancels. I incorporate it into my game heavily, although I don't know how effective it would be against MK because of his short frame attacks that will punish us upon hitting the shield.
Watch the whole thing. Choknater has used this 'tech' for a long time now. Although more for flair, fun, and style points rather than the tech that you are suggesting.
ScaryLB, Bair spacing is great for spacing, and also bait because it autocancels. I incorporate it into my game heavily, although I don't know how effective it would be against MK because of his short frame attacks that will punish us upon hitting the shield.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Thanks for the link Flamingo, I'm glad it's already known.
So is there a name for it? It's likely not many people know about it so I'll put it in my guide.
(If it is well known but i just didnt know about it, do you know who invented it so I can credit them?)
In the video he didn't really use it for edge-guarding, I agree it was more flair, but it's a great way around Marth and Ike's recoveries. imo it has much more usefulness than just flair.
b-air spacing is good on larger characters or characters with limited range. MK is a little too small.
I tried doing a b-air wall. The move ends much earlier than n-air though so there is usually a gap where nothing is happening. True it can be done with more than n-air, but the benefit of an n-air wall is that Sheik's foot is CONSTANTLY extended (Even without fastfalling).
Just saying.
So is there a name for it? It's likely not many people know about it so I'll put it in my guide.
(If it is well known but i just didnt know about it, do you know who invented it so I can credit them?)
In the video he didn't really use it for edge-guarding, I agree it was more flair, but it's a great way around Marth and Ike's recoveries. imo it has much more usefulness than just flair.
b-air spacing is good on larger characters or characters with limited range. MK is a little too small.
I tried doing a b-air wall. The move ends much earlier than n-air though so there is usually a gap where nothing is happening. True it can be done with more than n-air, but the benefit of an n-air wall is that Sheik's foot is CONSTANTLY extended (Even without fastfalling).
Just saying.
well thats intesting, is it postible to get that going for lets say an upair? i dought that would be good for anything but i wana know if you can use it for all of shieks air moves (exception to her down air)
(haha i cant belive the name "wall" stuck!)
(haha i cant belive the name "wall" stuck!)
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Understood. I was just thinking along the lines of keeping Nair to kill.
Yea, I definitely need to space with Bair. I don't use that move nearly enough.
Yea, I definitely need to space with Bair. I don't use that move nearly enough.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
One cool thing I found while in training mode today was something similar to sliding off the ledge with Shiek's up B. Instead of pressing up B right before running off the ledge, I pressed up B JUST after running off the ledge. Shiek then does a quick hop (Shiek doesn't fall at all before you press up B) before vanishing back to the stage. I think this would be useful against opponents a little too high for the regular version, and adds a little mind game.
Try it out and tell me what you think...unless this was already discussed.
Try it out and tell me what you think...unless this was already discussed.
uh i think thats more or less an already known thing i dont think it could be used for mind game cuz you can easaly be punished after landing on stage or someone could just grab the ledge when you appear and you fall to your doom
Flamingo
Smash Lord
What is you guys' problems?!? Keeping moves to kill???? WHAT? Guys. If you have a chance to use a move to hit an enemy, DO IT!!! And for the love of hippopotamuses, don't save Nair, it is ****. Sheik is good for getting early gimp kills AND DPS (Damage Per Second). Sheik is one of the fastest damage givers in the game, and lacks major killing potential. If you are wanting to save a move for kill, save Dsmash... But NO. Seriously. What's wrong with a Down+B after getting 80% on someone while you only have around 30%... and take one hit after transformation, giving you 40%. A worthy sacrifice for a refreshed set of moves that belong to a higher tier character. Believe me. I am in love with Sheik, but lets think realistically. Zelda's utilt, usmash, dsmash, ftilt, fsmash, fair, bair, uair have a better on-stage killing potential than ALL of Sheik's moves.
Known... at least my me earlier on for failed attempts on the vanish glide. But, it's pretty safe. Do you know if you can press down and spwwespot the ledge? or do you just suicide?
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
Why would you vanish glide if the enemy is on stage?
I don't think you know when to use it...
hummmmmmmmmmm hahah your right didnt think about it like that haha. it could be a 3 person match though or a team match
and there not talking abotu vanish guilding but doing a vanish after you run off the stage, just to get the facts straight,
and there not talking abotu vanish guilding but doing a vanish after you run off the stage, just to get the facts straight,
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Unless you want to be a friendlies match hero, you won't ever want to develop a technique for 3-for-all play. Those matches just make me sick... It's either 1v1 or dubz for me.
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Anyone got any DACUS tips for me? I tried this method:
*Alternate Configuration.
The most popular alternate configuration I know of is simply to set Z to "Attack" and either L, R, X, or Y (whichever one you don't use) to Grab.
Assuming Z is now attack, all that happens now is:
1. Forward
2. Z
3. Up
4. A.
*
But it does not work even in the slightest... I CAN do it sometimes by doing this:
1.Forward
2.Cstick Down
3.Up
4.A
That might not be the correct order since it happens so fast... I am basically asking for what your opinion is on the best and most efficient way to DACUS.
*Alternate Configuration.
The most popular alternate configuration I know of is simply to set Z to "Attack" and either L, R, X, or Y (whichever one you don't use) to Grab.
Assuming Z is now attack, all that happens now is:
1. Forward
2. Z
3. Up
4. A.
*
But it does not work even in the slightest... I CAN do it sometimes by doing this:
1.Forward
2.Cstick Down
3.Up
4.A
That might not be the correct order since it happens so fast... I am basically asking for what your opinion is on the best and most efficient way to DACUS.
sniperworm
Smash Ace
Since you seem to have more success with the Cstick for the dash attack, why not go Cstick and then use Z to initiate the Usmash? It still uses 2 different fingers so it's less demanding on your hands (or I guess you could shift your hand position, but I don't know if you want to do that).
I use Cstick down and Up + R (set to attack, duh) for my DACUS. I like the feeling of "pulling the trigger" when I use the DACUS. It makes grab releasing MK feel like playing Duck Hunt, CLICK he's dead, lol.
I use Cstick down and Up + R (set to attack, duh) for my DACUS. I like the feeling of "pulling the trigger" when I use the DACUS. It makes grab releasing MK feel like playing Duck Hunt, CLICK he's dead, lol.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
My method is to assume the claw position under default controller settings.
While the left thumb hits forward on the joystick, the right index finger hits Down on the C-Stick. At this point the left thumb has begun rotating the joystick into the upwards position and the right middle finger hits A once the roll is complete.
Another method that seems to be popular is to set L to attack
Now, in regular hand position (using a GC controller)
Left thumb moves joystick forward and begins to rotate upward after brief pause.
Right thumb moves C-stick Down
Left thumb and left index finger hit Up and L respectively at the same time.
There's a video about this method that probably explains it a little better. It's featured in the guide, but here's the link to the thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=216439
GodAtHand
Smash Lord
Thanks for the info and the link!
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
lmao, hahahaha.
That's the claw position? My hand turns so my palm faces directly downwards. only two fingers touch buttons on the controller, the index and middle fingers, and the thumb secures the right handle. Something of an inverted three finger sloth-claw I suppose.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
iDacusLikeMew2King! xD
Villi
Smash Lord
I've joined the dark side and changed my controls. Z to attack and my entire d-pad is grab. Z-dropping is actually not so bad and makes it technically easier to do z-drop trckses. Being forced to shield grab = icing on the cake. Simultaneous shield + c-stick in opposite direction is pivot grab.
DarkThundah
Smash Apprentice
I set L or R to attack (whichever you don't use for shielding)
and use C-stick foward/or back
So the only difference in my controls is L to attack and jump tap off.
So...
1. dash
2. c-stick foward
2. L and Up
Took me a while to get it down with sheik, cuz her timing is so wierd. But this works pretty easily for me now
oh and...
and use C-stick foward/or back
So the only difference in my controls is L to attack and jump tap off.
So...
1. dash
2. c-stick foward
2. L and Up
Took me a while to get it down with sheik, cuz her timing is so wierd. But this works pretty easily for me now
oh and...
I completly agree.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I've been doing this for a while now but I haven't realize why I did it until I had someone ask me.
Basically a habit I've developed when using sheik best OoS option the Ftilt is while I shield to tilt it up and towards my opponent. This allows easier and quicker punishment out of shield once dropped.
Another good thing about this is that if you do happen to misjudge and get hit you are already di fairly well.
Basically a habit I've developed when using sheik best OoS option the Ftilt is while I shield to tilt it up and towards my opponent. This allows easier and quicker punishment out of shield once dropped.
Another good thing about this is that if you do happen to misjudge and get hit you are already di fairly well.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
hey guys.
i might have just found a new true combo or something like that.
a snake was DACUSing or jumping towards me and i used needlestorm. the needles turned him around while he was jumping (stunned) and I caught him with a u-smash tipper.
AWESOME.
ill test this and upload the video later.
i might have just found a new true combo or something like that.
a snake was DACUSing or jumping towards me and i used needlestorm. the needles turned him around while he was jumping (stunned) and I caught him with a u-smash tipper.
AWESOME.
ill test this and upload the video later.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
I think it's been tested before and confirmed that needle storm doesn't combo into DACUS.
East
Crappy Imitation
It has and it doesn't.
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
I never said that I DACUSed, and I know it doesn't work. This is different.
Eitherway it's irrelevant, I must have been confusing the match with another one.
Here is what happened, to the best of my knowledge.
I ran up towards sheik and stopped as he was rolling towards me. I used needlestorm (full) and the LAST needle hit him from behind, sending him towards me. (This appears to be possible by his high percentage).
At this point, while he is still stunned, I perform a running U-smash, though from what I can tell a regular U-smash would have worked just as well. No DACUS anywhere.
Basically what this is is a method of setting up a tipper, albeit a bit... lucky.
In coming days I'll be trying to test this on people dropping from platforms since 300% is not a common dmg%. Hopefully, with the right timing and spacing, you can get any character into tipper position.
I can say I have done needle pulls effectively many many times, but usually from right next to them or far away. I see no reason why this shouldn't work, but Brawl is a crazy thing.
Anyway, here's the vid. If you have another explanation I'd be glad to hear it.
AHHH OMG it's a Video! Click on the Video! CLICK IT. AHHHH
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=--fX2NgGX6k
(If you get a video processing message just check back in a few seconds. It's a very small file)
p.s.
Whhhoooaaa!! I just realised you can change your topic title by double clicking the title in the Sheik page.
pps
People tend to overlook edits.
Eitherway it's irrelevant, I must have been confusing the match with another one.
Here is what happened, to the best of my knowledge.
I ran up towards sheik and stopped as he was rolling towards me. I used needlestorm (full) and the LAST needle hit him from behind, sending him towards me. (This appears to be possible by his high percentage).
At this point, while he is still stunned, I perform a running U-smash, though from what I can tell a regular U-smash would have worked just as well. No DACUS anywhere.
Basically what this is is a method of setting up a tipper, albeit a bit... lucky.
In coming days I'll be trying to test this on people dropping from platforms since 300% is not a common dmg%. Hopefully, with the right timing and spacing, you can get any character into tipper position.
I can say I have done needle pulls effectively many many times, but usually from right next to them or far away. I see no reason why this shouldn't work, but Brawl is a crazy thing.
Anyway, here's the vid. If you have another explanation I'd be glad to hear it.
AHHH OMG it's a Video! Click on the Video! CLICK IT. AHHHH
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=--fX2NgGX6k
(If you get a video processing message just check back in a few seconds. It's a very small file)
p.s.
Whhhoooaaa!! I just realised you can change your topic title by double clicking the title in the Sheik page.
pps
People tend to overlook edits.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Your posts have been improving recently, don't start being stupid again. Zelda's moves, whilst having higher killing potential are also considerably harder to land if your opponent exploits Zelda's weaknesses e.g. if you stay just outside her range she's very limited. She's not a higher tiered character if you're not a mindless drone following the list, Sheik is an overall better character (that's not to say Zelda is bad).
N Air is **** because of it's good hitbox and that it comes out frame 2, therefore saving it to be a killer/gimper for higher knockback works equally well because of these traits. You have to make a choice on how to use it, it can't fulfill both.
Your backwards thinking that Sheik can wrack damage and get early gimps only is the sort which hinders progress.
*Edit* Apologies to Sinking for my reproachable reading comprehension. I'm still fairly sure that the hitstun isn't long enough to compensate for its end lag and U Smash's startup (granted both of these are small, but Bawrl's hitstun is laughable), but gladly prove me wrong.
Flamingo
Smash Lord
Ehh sorry, honestly I was being biased in my point of view and I apologise for that. Recently, I have been focusing upon my doubles team much more than that of my singles play because people get mad at college when you have 12 people to only 2 wiis and are 1v1 whoring. In doubles, my partner gets most of the kills, so I need not focus on killing power too much. I will try to experience the other side and try saving moves to kill, maybe then I will know the effectiveness of this strategy.
Sorry again, in hindsight that post was so troll. :\
Sorry again, in hindsight that post was so troll. :\
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
It's no problem, it's refreshing for someone to acknowledge their own mistake.
Voyeur
Smash Journeyman
@Sinking: I watched the video and it looked really sweet; probably was because of % but if you can harness that set up it'd be really awesome.
When did you first read Fight Club? or have you only seen the movie.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Hey guys, I didn't see this around here so I decided to post it up.
Sheik can grab release to DACUS on Mario, Lucas, IC, and MK.
Edit: never mind, there is a video link in one of the stickies that I must have missed. XD
Sheik can grab release to DACUS on Mario, Lucas, IC, and MK.
Edit: never mind, there is a video link in one of the stickies that I must have missed. XD
SinkingHigher
Smash Lord
It's already in the guide.
GRUSTing.
Please use your eyes.
GRUSTing.
Please use your eyes.
East
Crappy Imitation
Nice vid SinkingHigher. I really don't think it's usable on a normal basis, considering around the high percentage most characters have to be for it to work, they should be dead by that point anyway. Situationally however you earn sexy kill points.
I've been busting my arse lately to figure out if there is a sure fire way to turn someone around with a needle [other than what I discussed in my write-up earlier about it], and frankly I think the game is just laughing at me now.
I've been trying to see if when a character is hit, during their "I'm taking damage, oh god it hurts" animation if they have any moments of invincibility because that's the only way I see a needle going through their hitbox and it not being recognized until it hits the other side of their hitbox.
I've also noticed that at 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 the distance of Final Destination [1/4 speed in training to figure this out, not sure if it changes anything] that the needles hit at different times depending on how far the enemy is aways. The closer the target, the more the needles are spaced out, in a rhythm similar to 1--2-3-4-5-6. The farther away, the more the later needles tend to "clump" together so to speak. Their rhythm is as follows 1-2-34-56. I would have hypothesized that the farther away the target is, the more likely they are to be turned around by either the 4 or 6th needle, but I recently haven't had the time, interest, or attention span to throw needles for about 2 hours and record data.
Of what I have found out, I do know that the 1st needle is a small but notable distance ahead of all the others. This means that it takes at least 3 needles to even attempt to turn someone around.
In conclusion, to sum things up... Eff Sakurai, he's a tool.
I've been busting my arse lately to figure out if there is a sure fire way to turn someone around with a needle [other than what I discussed in my write-up earlier about it], and frankly I think the game is just laughing at me now.
I've been trying to see if when a character is hit, during their "I'm taking damage, oh god it hurts" animation if they have any moments of invincibility because that's the only way I see a needle going through their hitbox and it not being recognized until it hits the other side of their hitbox.
I've also noticed that at 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 the distance of Final Destination [1/4 speed in training to figure this out, not sure if it changes anything] that the needles hit at different times depending on how far the enemy is aways. The closer the target, the more the needles are spaced out, in a rhythm similar to 1--2-3-4-5-6. The farther away, the more the later needles tend to "clump" together so to speak. Their rhythm is as follows 1-2-34-56. I would have hypothesized that the farther away the target is, the more likely they are to be turned around by either the 4 or 6th needle, but I recently haven't had the time, interest, or attention span to throw needles for about 2 hours and record data.
Of what I have found out, I do know that the 1st needle is a small but notable distance ahead of all the others. This means that it takes at least 3 needles to even attempt to turn someone around.
In conclusion, to sum things up... Eff Sakurai, he's a tool.