Banana Tomato Brussel Sprout RED PAAANNNNDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[SinkingHigher]

I know how to turn them around successfully. You have to aim for the feet.

d-tilt or sometimes f-tilt > needles works every time.

I haven't tried it with a single needle. I'm sure it's the same but with more accurate timing.

 

[East]

Yeah, all you have to do is make it so that the attack registers on the back half of the targets hurtbox and they'll turn around, because in brawl you face the direction you were hit from. You can achieve the turning effect with a single needle by hitting the back of the target's head, but this is only in the air. What I'm referring to above is while standing and so is your target.

 

[Flamingo]

So this may be a totally dumb application, but in Nayru's Love, I believe I read the enemy always faces the way Zelda is after being hit with it. Is there any relation between these?

Also, if we could get the enemy to face the opposite way whenever we want, I believe it would be extremely effective vs characters like Olimar who rely desperately upon their grab game. So is the way we can manipulate the direction another character is facing achieved by sending a full needle storm in and hoping one hits the reverse half of the enemy's hitbox? Or is there a way we could SH a needle throw to aim for that part?

 

[SinkingHigher]

You made one point and asked if there is a relation.

If you are refering to the needles, no that's not how it works, although it is similar.

Like East said, draw a vertical line from the feet to the head of a character. If they're hit on the left of that line, they face left--if on the right, they face right.

I don't think this tech is meant to be used like Mario's cape. imo it's good for set ups.

There are two ways to turn a character around: Hit them behind their head, or behind their feet.

Method one:

jump, shoot needles. They turn around.

Method two:

f-tilt or d-tilt, or wait for an opponent to fall off a platform, shoot needles while standing. This can be done when an opponent is jumping at you as well.

The problem with using this to chain attacks is that Sheik's ending lag seems to end when the needles disappear, instead of after the last one is thrown.

 

[Jaigoda]

One thing to mention is that unlike the cape, this does not revert momentum, and it will reset someone who's in their 'after upB animation' (can't remember the name.. I'm stupid). Also, I don't think it has the same properties as the cape of when you're turned around and you immediately attack, you attack the opposite direction. I'm sure everyone knows all this by now, though. I don't know, to me it seems pretty useless compared to a normal needle throw. Anyone care to enlighten me on its uses?

 

[SinkingHigher]

At close range near an edge it will pull a character straight through sheik off the side of the stage.

If you play Zelda you know that sometimes kill just by using NL near the ledge. Before the opponent knows what happened it's too late and they frantically try to recover making them susceptible to attack or gimping.

You can use "needlepulls" (not the best name) to send someone off the stage behind you. I've been able to gimp and sometimes footstool with this for a 0% kill.

Otherwise, if you check the video on page 16, I used it to trap a Snake into a U-smash tipper. Granted he was noob and it was Sudden Death, but this is gameplay physics so it can be recreated. I'm trying to find ways of making it happen when you want it to, though.

Anyway, I just wanted to add:

In the practice stage I was fooling around with what I think are called pivot grabs (You grab behind you as you slide forwards the distance of a running UpSmash.)

Anyway, my index finger almost died from that **** Z button so I stopped, but a few times I managed to do what seemed like a sliding D-smash.

Technically, It was a short dash and immediately a D-smash right after. iirc I hit forward then Z and immediately c-stick down. It was chargeable too.

I'm screwed today but I'll test all this stuff later.

 

[Flamingo]

Thank you for clearing that up SinkingHigher

One thing to mention is that unlike the cape, this does not revert momentum, and it will reset someone who's in their 'after upB animation' (can't remember the name.. I'm stupid).

Freefall.

 

[MarthFanatique]

Excellent guide. Congrads! It helped me with my DACUS, ftilt locking, and much more. Good visuals. Kudos! 9.9/10 (cuz no one's perfect! )

 

[Voyeur]

Anyway, my index finger almost died from that **** Z button so I stopped, but a few times I managed to do what seemed like a sliding D-smash.

that'd be awesome if you can get it in working fashion. I have one that gives the D-smash a little boost/slide along the ground as well but I honestly need to get some way of recording.
You turn around, crouch quickly, crawl backwards, turn back around and will get a sliding effect in which if you perform a move you'll get that boost along with it for a while.

It's like that crawl dashing and all but reversed pretty much.

 

[Tristan_win]

Hey has anyone ever notice that sheik fair has a **** ton of priority?

Like I've hit marth out of his up B during the raise and game and watches...Of course after their invincibly ended.Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the fair lose to anything unless it was simply out ranged.

Oh, and I'm going to my first brawl tournament this weekend ^-^ Wish me luck

 

[Villi]

Good luck Tristan!

 

[-Mars-]

Hey has anyone ever notice that sheik fair has a **** ton of priority?

Like I've hit marth out of his up B during the raise and game and watches...Of course after their invincibly ended.Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the fair lose to anything unless it was simply out ranged.

Oh, and I'm going to my first brawl tournament this weekend ^-^ Wish me luck

Good luck Tristan, i'll be attending my first non-smashfest tournament on March 21st. If you can try to get some videos and please experiment a little with the chain and tell us what you come up with.

As for the fair having good priority......there is no such thing as an aerial having priority over another. It is completely based off of range.

 

[Flamingo]

May the Triforce be with you Tristan.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Luck you, Tristan! :D

 

[Blistering Speed]

Hey has anyone ever notice that sheik fair has a **** ton of priority?

Like I've hit marth out of his up B during the raise and game and watches...Of course after their invincibly ended.Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen the fair lose to anything unless it was simply out ranged.

Oh, and I'm going to my first brawl tournament this weekend ^-^ Wish me luck

Is it CoT4? If so, you most definately picked the right tournament to be your first. That **** is going to be epic. Best of luck.

Aerials don't have priority. Their hitbox does not interact with the hit box of other attacks.

 

[Deleted member]

how do you chainguard? when I put the chain off the ledge they just grab it anyway with up b and are invincible

 

[SinkingHigher]

how do you chainguard? when I put the chain off the ledge they just grab it anyway with up b and are invincible

I haven't tested this on all characters yet but chances are you're doing one or both of two things wrong:

1. Simply, you're trying to do it too late.

Resolution: Do it earlier.

2. You're not vibrating the joystick enough.

Resolution, keep the joystick within a halfstep of the bottom corner nook and wiggle it as fast as you can. Just like a chainlock. You might be too far away. Some characters can get through it in recovery but their get-up attacks are laggy enough to hit them as they lose invincibility frames.

 

[Voyeur]

Sinking knows what he's talking about, he's the chain rapist.
From what I saw of it being done on me, you need to have a good length of the whole chain hanging down over the ledge and then like sinking said, chain lock motion

which I got down now, thanks <3

 

[Tristan_win]

So...Something interesting happened last night when I was using the chain.

I have no idea what move it was or at what % my opponent was at but after I accidentally jacked the chain not only did it gain the priority, hitstun, knock, hitbox, of the move before but it also gain it's tripping effect.

Permanently.

It was very cool, like I made a meta knight trip 3 times from the chain in a row.


...oh and the chain broken like up the *** offline or at least I think so.

 

[Voyeur]

but it also gain it's tripping effect.

Permanently.

It was very cool, like I made a meta knight trip 3 times from the chain in a row.

you mean even after you retracted and continued to do other attacks, and re-deployed the chain it still had the trip effect?
if so then that is really sick and the Jacketing needs to be exploited at all costs to up Sheik's game on such a high level.

 

[SinkingHigher]

iirc Sheik doesn't have any tripping moves.

I'm sure you can't jacket Zelda's moves. Did YOU trip before jacketing? Perhaps you jacketed your own trip :/

I take it you don't have a video?

 

[Tristan_win]

...Yes she does.

SHEIK
N-Air (Strong Hit): 25-30%
N-Air (Soft): 70-80%
B-Air (Sweetspot): 31-39%
B-Air (Soft): 70-80%
Needles: 291-999%
Chain (Tipper): 45-62%
By stealthsushi, in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179838

Anyways no it didn't keep the tripping effect after the chain was retracted but it did trip him three times in a row and they weren't all chain tippers.

Also has any ever consider running away as sheik when all her killers are decay, switching to zelda, and then switch back to sheik as a dependable ways to kill people.

I did that in one of my pools matches on Jungle drapes after I hit a meta knight on the far side of the stage and since it was meta knight I decide to run to the other side, switch to Zelda and then back to sheik would be more beneficial then trying to gimp meta on that stage.

^_^ I think I won the match because of it if that means anything...

 

[Villi]

I did that in one of my pools matches on Jungle drapes after I hit a meta knight on the far side of the stage and since it was meta knight I decide to run to the other side, switch to Zelda and then back to sheik would be more beneficial then trying to gimp meta on that stage.

^_^ I think I won the match because of it if that means anything...

On JJ, jumping far off the right side, into the water, and transforming is pretty safe.

 

[Voyeur]

oh cool then about the chain and Sheiks' trips, I'd love to master that .

Yeah I've thought of doing that before but I usually end up only having enough time to actually stay as Zelda, or in between respawns and I'd like to refresh Sheik's moves do 2 quick Down+B's.
Other then that I usually cant pull off the transformations during the actually fighting of the match with out getting punished.


Edit: de-bunked

 

[Tristan_win]

oh cool then about the chain and Sheiks' trips, I'd love to master that .

Yeah I've thought of doing that before but I usually end up only having enough time to actually stay as Zelda, or in between respawns and I'd like to refresh Sheik's moves do 2 quick Down+B's.
Other then that I usually cant pull off the transformations during the actually fighting of the match with out getting punished.


side note: Today I canceled the landing lag of Down Air. I luckily got to save the match to the Wii. Not sure if anyone has figured out how to do this 100% or if was even possible but it is, and I have evidence. I'll try to find a way to get it posted.

How far did you fall? Because I think it's already common knowledge that sheik dair will end by it's self if given enough time.

 

[Villi]

It takes a height higher than Sheik can double jump to complete dair in the air. The hitbox is gone for a while before she even touches the ground. You can cancel it consistently by footstooling someone and then double jumping before dairing. Pretty much, if she's at the top of the screen, you can complete the animation before hitting the ground on most stages.

 

[Steel]

@villi or anyone

How does sheik perform in teams? what's normally her role? camp/hold stocks? aggro? Thanks ^_^

 

[Villi]

@villi or anyone

How does sheik perform in teams? what's normally her role? camp/hold stocks? aggro? Thanks ^_^

I usually team with a Marth and we're both pretty aggressive. Mostly, we'll keep the other team separated and Sheik will occasionally throw a needle at the other teammate to interrupt or run in at kill percent for an ftilt -> upsmash kill. If I'm not keeping my ftilt decayed, I'm more of a damage racker unless the matchups are safe for Zelda.

Marth tends to be more aggressive, so occasionally I can just stand back covering Marth's openings while he keeps both cornered. If I need to keep stocks, though, I can either switch to Zelda or just keep the other guy distracted by grabbing and being hard to hit. Sheik is hard to get away from, so she can usually prevent double team situations for her teammate.

 

[Voyeur]

EDIT: de-bunked

 

[SinkingHigher]

Hmm Tristan... Clearly it was a jacket if it wasn't all tipper.

I'm starting to think that the chain doesn't jacket SHEIK's move, but it's effect on the player.

 

[East]

Hey Voyeur, would you be able to send me that video as well? I'd like to take a look at it.

My Wii Number is 8305 5413 3284 8638. My brawl number should be in my profile. Unfortunately I have to go, but I'll be back around midnight.

 

[Tristan_win]

@ Villi and Tristan

I know if you start the Dair High enough it just ends, but that's not what I'm talking about. I literally mean I hit the ground with the Dair, dive animation and all and merely ended it, I was standing, with my Shield ready, and I didn't have the negative ending lag effect.
It's as if I literally short hopped, Dair and just was standing again, distance wise.

Watching the replay, come to look at it I didn't even get the start up lag/rise from doing Dair.

I was playing lvl 9 CPU MK on Pictochat level. The Windmill was going around, after I did some Jabs to him, I Dair'ed straight through the windmill platform, was diving, hit the ground, it canceled, I shielded.

If either of you want I can send the Replay to you and you can load it up, that'd be awesome if you could and we can examine it then. I've been trying to recreate it since.

That sounds very interesting, can you recreate it?

 

[Voyeur]

Hmm Tristan... Clearly it was a jacket if it wasn't all tipper.

I'm starting to think that the chain doesn't jacket SHEIK's move, but it's effect on the player.

but then, Jacket can be preformed with out having to actually use the move on the opponent correct? Perhaps then that would mean there are 2 forms of the Jacket, because what you're saying makes sense.

In one of Ryoko's vids he Jackets the Light Arrow but it only sort of paralyzes DDD and doesn't always give the knock back power.

Perhaps you Jacket a move when it's not hitting any body and Jacket the effects a move had on your opponent when you Jacket that to a chain afterwards.

 

[Villi]

@ Villi and Tristan

I know if you start the Dair High enough it just ends, but that's not what I'm talking about. I literally mean I hit the ground with the Dair, dive animation and all and merely ended it, I was standing, with my Shield ready, and I didn't have the negative ending lag effect.
It's as if I literally short hopped, Dair and just was standing again, distance wise.

Watching the replay, come to look at it I didn't even get the start up lag/rise from doing Dair.

I was playing lvl 9 CPU MK on Pictochat level. The Windmill was going around, after I did some Jabs to him, I Dair'ed straight through the windmill platform, was diving, hit the ground, it canceled, I shielded.

If either of you want I can send the Replay to you and you can load it up, that'd be awesome if you could and we can examine it then. I've been trying to recreate it since.

:O I wanna see but I can't receive replays. Can you record it on a phone cam or something?

 

[Voyeur]

EDIT: de-bunked

 

[Flamingo]

I don't have wifi, please get a vid and upload it.. I wanna seee.

 

[Voyeur]

After sending the replay to East and trying to recreate this situation and all of it's means, the conclusion is that I did not do a Down Air Cancel.
In fact what happened was I ended up doing a Fast Fall to Aerial Dodge and hit the ground.
What threw me off was the command input from my personal knowledge when I did the move, I clearly dropped down, hit Down C, then picked up with hitting R during the fall.

I'm guessing the Down C command never picked up, oh well, I'm glad we got it debunked. The second thing that threw me off by the way was the dust that animates. A normal Jump landing Dust has "shock waves", a short hop's dust has minimal to non "shock waves" and Down Air has no shock waves what so ever.
Producing no shock waves is possible during a Short Hop + Aerial dodge, if you do it super close. Not sure about a normal jump + Aerial dodge.

Needless to say, those shock waves didn't show up during the landing, but yeah.
Any way, yeah it was a fluke. Sorry, I failed, such a chode /facepalm


bright side: I sent East a new vid and he will go over that with me on what I call reverse crawl dashing, that gives a sliding boost property to Down smash. Sort of like the Yoshi Island crawl dashing, but not such a large scale boost or need to jump.

 

[Zankoku]

Soft landing is caused by landing from a distance at or below shorthop height, at normal falling speed, and it has one frame of vulnerability. Hard landing is caused by landing from any distance higher than that, or from a fastfall, and it has four frames of vulnerability.

 

[JackieRabbit5]

Soft landing is caused by landing from a distance at or below shorthop height, at normal falling speed, and it has one frame of vulnerability. Hard landing is caused by landing from any distance higher than that, or from a fastfall, and it has four frames of vulnerability.

really thats useful...so maybe fast fall aerials aren't so good?

 

[Flamingo]

really thats useful...so maybe fast fall aerials aren't so good?

If you need to FF an aerial to hit, do it. And if you have it properly spaced, you shouldn't be punished with only 4 frames of lag. Nearly all of Sheik's aerials that are going to be appropriately used near the ground (Fair, Bair, Nair) will either autocancel or create enough sheild stun to compensate for the landing lag. But yeah... space appropriately, or no matter what I just said, you will get grabbed most likely.