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SinkingHigher

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Hi all. I've been testing a couple of new minor Sheik techs I discovered. I'll post them here when I figure them out.

Until then I found this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL2cfGMPY8I

However, I hardly believe that's possible. If it's fake, it's VERY well put together though. :/ Anyway:

1. Only FSes have the power to do that.
2. Sheik wind will NEVER turn someone around.
3. Falcon punch out-prioritizes wind when they both start at the same time (like in the video)
4. The poster is noob.

Nevertheless, wind will knock a falcon off the edge NO MATTER which direction it comes from.
 

Villi

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I dunno if anybody does this, but here's an easy and effective way to turn around your needle charge from a dash:

Run away
Pivot
SH
Charge

Easier than a B reversal, you keep your retreating momentum while in the air, and you get to throw two needles when you land.
 

Zankoku

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My habitual method of doing reverse needles, since it was the only way in Melee.
 

-Mars-

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I dunno if anybody does this, but here's an easy and effective way to turn around your needle charge from a dash:

Run away
Pivot
SH
Charge

Easier than a B reversal, you keep your retreating momentum while in the air, and you get to throw two needles when you land.
Fox and Falco make their money off of this.
 

Voyeur

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run away
short hop
B-reverse in the air

it's a little different from what Villi is saying, Running, pivot on the ground, Short hop, charge.

but I like the first because it brings that abrupt momentum canceling and since I practiced alot at the SHRNC (short hop reverse needle cancel) I think that SHRB is pretty simple now. But I'll practice with your way too Villi.
 

Voyeur

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after fooling around more with the chain to chain lock train and chain guard train ( I was doing it wrong before...kek)

Just wanted to update, pretty sure it's known but if not, you can keep your opponent locked in the "fell" animation with the chain lock for a really long time.

The same as when you do needle lock on the ground or when others do the Jab-locks, Falco's Laser Lock, etc. When people are in that frame and you get the chain lock out on them it's...like awesome because they can no longer SDI, they're at the mercy of your control with the chain. Usually only a stun tip will get them out

edit: to practice I've just been doing Fthrows, and they fall to that position.
 

SinkingHigher

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Hey guys. Just giving you an update.

Here are some things I've been working on:

Superboosting? Double tap B instead of once when B boosting and with good timing you go twice the distance. You can slide from the upper platform of Battlefield all the way to the ledge.

This works for Zelda too.

Reverse B Boosts

Up until now this was just theory but i did a reverse superboost from the top battlefield platform. i cant recreate it though but ill keep trying. in my excitement i quit before i saved the replay.

Chain

If you hold the joystick in position and wiggle the controller instead sheiks hand moves superfast. I cant get the lock working properly here though but i think there's some use for it.

Grab Release to Chainguard. (GRC?)

grab your opponent at the edge and let them fall. There is a brief period before they can do anything, giving you long enough to deploy the chain and begin the chainguard. 0% to death?

Infinite spotdodge.

I've never seen this posted so hopefully it's new. I think it's multi-character too. If timed properly you can spotdodge one after another without showing your shield or standing up fully. I have been able to do it through Fox's lasers without taking damage, but timing it to work consistently is hard. From what I gathered if it works with fox it will work with anyone, kind of like MK's invincibility cloak. I'll upload the video soon.
 

Kataefi

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So what you're saying is a nayru's love jump can go double the distance it already can simply by pressing b twice?

I'm excited to see what could be of this. TEST! Also post the zelda info in my thread so we can attract potential testers also ^^
 

SinkingHigher

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Zelda's doesnt go quite as far, it's slightly over 1.5 times the distance since hers is already quite horizontal by nature.

I was testing the doubleboost, superboost, tapboost (?) thing with sheik and I managed to get an f-tilt lock after the needles were thrown (fully charged).
It seems her lag ends SLIGHTLY earlier. From what I saw I don't think it was a lock but I'll keep testing. Kat, message me when you're on.
 

Voyeur

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I know what you're saying about the infinite spot dodge, it looks as if you're always in the frame where you'll be taking no damage. I can do it offline, idk how you got the timing down online, but as much as it appears to be so you can still get hit by ..lets say if we used our chain, jabs, Falcon Punch even.

But Ike, Marth and Link's Swords swings all seem to have a hard time finding the opening of the inf. spot dodge, which makes it really easy to spam that on them until the opening of a dmash etc.

also you'll notice if you do it correctly offline that you start to move back from the position you once were in, or so that's what happens to me.
 

Voyeur

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well that's blade dance, not A-smash-tilts =3. Alot of other things rip through spot dodge whoring as I said in the above. The way I typed it though did make it sound like that's all I'd be doing, spam is about 3 times max I'd say. Any more and you'll get punished
 

Zankoku

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"Infinite spotdodge" a new discovery? Clearly people here aren't familiar with Drephen.

Yes, you can spotdodge, but there are vulnerable frames during the startup and end of a spotdodge regardless. If you want to test full invulnerability you do it with Squirtle's Water Gun.
 

Blistering Speed

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Grab Release to Chainguard. (GRC?)

grab your opponent at the edge and let them fall. There is a brief period before they can do anything, giving you long enough to deploy the chain and begin the chainguard. 0% to death?
Upon grab release, both Sheik and the opponent have 30 frames of lag (unless you're releasing Ness/Lucas who have 40 frames, or DK who has 20 frames). I wouldn't say this is viable considering Sheik's chain start up is relatively slow. It could work as a surprise tactic, but I doubt anything else considering if your opponent knows it's coming, they'll recover accordingly dependant on the character and avoid it.

Infinite spotdodge.
Spotdodge has approximately 6 frames without invincibility in startup and 4 frames in cooldown without. Hardly untouchable, though repetitive spotdodges can throw an opponent off, just don't make it a habit.
 

SinkingHigher

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Thanks for the info guys. Saved a lot of testing.

Like I said this is all speculation and not completely tested, ergo it's not in the front page.

GRC has never not worked for me, so I based the info on that. I guess it's just luck. Luck or bad players.

I still find the B boosting quite interesting. It could lead to spikes and quick edgeguarding/hogging one certain stages. I need to do more testing before I can be sure, since there seems to be a general lag with Zelda and Sheik's Bneutrals. Perhaps the extra sliding means you chain b-boosts. I'll leave it for another time, though. I have window sills to draw :/
 

Voyeur

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I know we all have realized the Tip starting point of the Usmash for Sheik is a really great vertical kill, but I was realizing the the ending tips or at some point of the ending of Usmash are great for horizontal kills.

So it seems the starting and ending power of the usmash are equally strong in their KO'ing areas, or is it only reliable to get the tipper because I can see instances where I can land the Usmash to get the horizontal tip for a much more common sense knock back to send the opponent off the side.

in put?

edit: second look, this could of been a matter of DI, since it was a straight Horizontal knock back instead of the normal Diagonal from the weaker usmash hitbox
 

choknater

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Hey guys, I really like doing fully charged B-reversed needles on the ground. People pretty much never expect needles to come out unless you are facing them, and even less when you're running away.

Almost always connects. Free damage. If someone's trying to space you on the ground... don't just throw the needles cuz they might block it. Run away and b-reverse the needles instead ;)
 

Good Ol' Tree

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I'm not about to read 11 pages of posts just to find out if this was already found...

But I found a way (found like 2 months ago... I hate posting in forums) to use the needle collection a bit more to our advantage.

If you're running and you want to do something like, oh, a Dsmash. Normally you would think "Well I'll just shield and then Dsmash!". That is useful, yes, but you can cancel your running much quicker than that! First you start running, then when you want to cancel it you would let go of your control stick and press B to begin collecting needles. Immediately after you press B, press your shield button to cancel the collection and voila! You canceled your running animation faster than shielding.

You could use this to pull out a Dsmash faster and I haven't tested this yet but it could be a better solution than foxtrot -> Fsmash.

Sorry if it's old >.>
 

Zankoku

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It's actually strictly slower than dash-shielding. I've done frame-testing for it.
 

Villi

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Anyone notice how easy it is to freeze your game by starting off a match falling off the battlefield platform with chain?
 

Zankoku

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I've done it on Lylat once, too. I also noticed that that particular chain has absolutely no hitboxes.
 

Voyeur

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alright so with Vanish, I believe Sinking called it "Edge Glide" you can perform it really easily if you just crawl back against the ledge and then hit Up+B.

I guess if you want a fancy way to edge hog while your back is against the ledge or for mind games while cornered in that zone. But yeah.

edit: you can even time it to get the explosion and still ledge grab.
 

stealth3654

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I was doing some testing with the chain jacketing earlier today. I found out that diminished moves do not affect the knock back and damage of the move that was jacketed when chain jacketing. I also found out that if the chain is diminished, the move you are jacketing will also be diminished proportionally when doing the chain jacket.

For example: The second hit of Sheik's forward smash does 9%. If you fully diminish the forward smash then chain jacket the move, it will still do 9% damage with the same knock back as and undiminished forward smash. If you diminish the chain (by chain locking for example) then jacket the forward smash, the damage and knock back will be diminished proportionally to how diminished the chain is regardless of how diminished the forward smash is. So, if you fully diminish the chain then jacket the second hit of Sheik's forward smash (completely undiminished) it will only do 4% damage and have minimal knock back for the move.

One more thing. Charging a smash does not affect how powerful the move you jacket is. So if you fully charge a forward smash and jacket it, it will still only do 9% damage with same knock back instead of whatever the % it should be with increased knock back.
 

Villi

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I've done it on Lylat once, too. I also noticed that that particular chain has absolutely no hitboxes.
Do you mean you accidentally froze the game and still didn't do any damage? I was thinking it would be a sort-of reliable way to get the chain jacket. It hasn't been very useful for me in practice. :/ And the hitboxes suck for up smash.
 

Ajax615

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For the vanish explosion u can actually land with no lag from the sky if done properly. Basically from the ground point the analog stick northwest or northeast but just a little under those directions. I think I have my own vids of frame proof. Xcuse grammar on iPhone
 

SinkingHigher

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Chainguard is your best bet. tbh, it's really all you need to know.

With certain characters that you can predict their approach, you can trap them in it. It helps to stand under a platform.

It's pretty easy if you come off the respawn platform since you're invincible.
 

FrozenFire13

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Can anyone tell me EXACTLY HOW (not a video, unless it tells you in the video, NOT JUST SHOW) to do the chainlock? I'm gonna start trying to incorporate it into my game. Idk how fast and wide ranged to move the analog stick. Give me a hand Sheiks.
 

SinkingHigher

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Well, it's in guide and people seemed to understand that just fine.

Besides that information, I would say...

Watch Sheik's hand. That's the key.

Deploy the chain.
Hold down+forward or Down+backward
Wiggle joystick + or - HALF a joystick nook.

Wiggle as fast as you can.
If the enemy escapes towards you, they're idiots
If the enemy escapes away from you, smack the joystick forward to hit them with the tipper and release so they don't have time to get you during lag.
 

FrozenFire13

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Well, it's in guide and people seemed to understand that just fine.

Besides that information, I would say...

Watch Sheik's hand. That's the key.

Deploy the chain.
Hold down+forward or Down+backward
Wiggle joystick + or - HALF a joystick nook.

Wiggle as fast as you can.
If the enemy escapes towards you, they're idiots
If the enemy escapes away from you, smack the joystick forward to hit them with the tipper and release so they don't have time to get you during lag.
Ah, thank you. See, your info made me realize that I was going from down to forward. As in 3 whole nooks. I now realize what to do. Thank you very much for answering my question.
 

SinkingHigher

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np. Like I said before (but forgot to explain), sheik's hand is the key.

What you want is to to keep the chain as still as possible why keeping sheik's hand constantly moving. This means that the opponent is knocked away but they are constantly barraged by hits.
 
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