Banana Tomato Brussel Sprout RED PAAANNNNDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[SinkingHigher]

Thanks for the input, but both of those "combos" are VERY easily broken out of. Needlestorm to DACUS or Running U-smash will usually connect, but I doubt F-smash is very effective at all.

 

[False Soundz]

Hey Sinking, question about the guide.

Are you going to be adding stage advantage's, CP's, etc. Basically what stages Sheik/Zelda are good on and why.

For example, FD because Sheik can needle camp. Blah blah blah, that sort of crap.

 

[SinkingHigher]

My experience with top players and tournies is slim to none, so I would not be one to give advice on these sort of things. I don't really know if that belongs in this thread. I would love to add more info, but I am ridiculously busy these days. (It's 6 am and I'm still doing homework)

Basically, some time in the future, it's a definite possibility, but I'd have to wait until all that information is available elsewhere on the forum.

 

[popsofctown]

Sticky the guide, again. :]]

@False Soundz: in the interim, if you are concerned about stage picking, the best thing to do is
A. Make sure Zelda/Sheik's bad recoveries can work well enough on that stage. Probably means no Lylat, and I'd avoid the jagged edges of pokemon stadium, although you could probably bear with that.
B. Other than that, both characters enjoy equal advantage from pretty much any stage. Rather than center picks around your own advantages (besides the maybe smashville or FD if you can needlecamp the matchup) try to learn where your opponent doesn't want to play. As a tournament player, that's usually what helped my Zelda/Sheik the most. You can find that on other character boards, or asking mainers of those other characters. GW hates FD, loves Yoshi's Island. Ness hates Lylat, even more than you do, drag him there. Same for Link, Lucas, Ivy. If someone has a better camp game than you, take them somewhere that interrupts that well, like pictochat. So on and so forth.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Zelda and Sheik both have crazy good Up smashes, so any platform within reach from the ground should be helpful (ie battlefield)

From my personal experience, Sheik likes to attack quickly from different angles, and Zelda likes to juggle. Eitherway, a variety of lowish platforms above a long strip (good for chasing people to ledges. Zelda can spike from here and Sheik can edgeguard.)

FD HATES both Sheik and zeldas recoveries, so if you're playing somone that can hold up a good fight in the air, stay away from FD.

Again, I'm basing this on WiFi, but I would imagine all the info works both ways.

 

[popsofctown]

I don't think Zelda and sheik should seek out platforms. They are jugglers, but they are extremely jugglable too, it goes both ways. 100-100=0, and more or less platforms will just as much as they help.

 

[-Mars-]

I don't think Zelda and sheik should seek out platforms. They are jugglers, but they are extremely jugglable too, it goes both ways. 100-100=0, and more or less platforms will just as much as they help.

Both of them have excellent platform pressure games. Sheik can just destroy people with quick SH aerials while they are on the platforms and around kill percentages gets easy tippers on BF; she also can hit with her priority crazy utilt. Zelda has her usmash, utilt, nair, and uair on BF.................i'd rather take my chances.

 

[Rawr_]

platforms are too good with both, so much fun stuff you can do with them. sheik's sh goes the perfect height to land pretty much any aerial, and the last frames of zelda's usmash (the killing ones lol) hit through BF's platforms. juggling shouldn't be too much of a problem for zelda, if they're guarding one platform FW down to the other one, or into them to hit with fire if they're not expecting it. or hit them with an aerial din's fire if you're a little closer to the ground, as long as you mix it up you should be able to catch people off-guard

 

[SinkingHigher]

Totally random comment here, but wouldn't it be awesome if people got stunned when they walked on Sheik's needles? The ones that get stuck in the floor when you miss.

 

[East]

If only... *daydreams*

 

[Tristan_win]

~imagines Diddy stepping onto a needle and then dacus him while he tries to escapes~ ...If only

 

[SinkingHigher]

Why would they have them do that for no reason? It's just plain cruel. CRUEL.

 

[CPU?]

hey i guys i knonw this is a nooby question but what buttons do you hold to start out as shiek???

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hey guys, I have something to share. So, i was playing a friendly, and something wierd happened... i'm not sure if its just the properties of the attack or what though.
Sorry if this is already known or is common knowledge.

We were on FD, and I was shiek. My friend was DIddy. Im not sure exactly how it happened, but i think this may have been it: he side Bed me, then after that I jumped really really high (higher than normally possible) Im not sure if its a property of Diddy's Side B or not... may be the result of my high elevation was just a combination of knockback and a jump(s)? I dont know.

Any feedback would be nice

Edit:

@CPU

You do not need to hold a button, Im pretty sure there is a way that way but i dont know. I do know that you can, on the character select screen, click on Shiek so that she will be highlighted and shown in front of Zelda, which makes you start as Shiek.

 

[Palpi]

Do you get 2 jumps out of diddys -> B release?

 

[SinkingHigher]

Ragnarok, I think you may have DId towards him and footstool jumped.

That is the ONLY way to do high jumps.

 

[Villi]

So I sat down and decided I was gonna learn how to DACUS consistently with tap jump on, and I noticed some technical problems I was having with the joystick. I developed some simple exercises to iron out the kinks in my technique that I thought might help anyone having trouble with DACUS.

I have to change my hand position to do this. I put my index finger on the c-stick and my middle finger on the A button. It's probably best you do what's comfortable.

Exercise 1: Quarter Circle

Turn tap jump off.

Dash to the right while moving your joystick in a quarter circle to up position. Keep your thumb pushing firmly in the up position. Repeat across FD, making sure to pause momentarily in the up position. Repeat in the opposite direction.

You should do a single fox trot and stop, facing the direction you initiated the dash. If you accidentally slide or turn around, you just messed up. Correct your error and repeat the exercise. Deliberate placement from forward to up is critical to successfully performing DACUS.

Excercise 2: Coordinating C-stick with Quarter Circle

Turn tap jump on.

Dash to the right and push your c-stick down. Repeat until comfortable in both directions.

Dash to the right and push your c-stick down as you commence the quarter circle to up position. Make sure your thumb is firmly rested on the up position as you dash attack. The dash attack should come before you reach up position -- if you're too slow on the c-stick input, you will perform a dair. Repeat until there are no more dairs in either direction.

Exercise 3: DACUS

Dash to the right, push your c-stick down as you commence the quarter circle to up position, press A simultaneous with the up input. Hold your fingers on up and A together, firmly, to associate them in your muscle memory. Repeat in both directions.

These should be rapid inputs. The timing between hitting the c-stick and A is extremely short. It leaves very little room for error, so it's critical to practice perfect execution.

Exercise 4: Grab Release DACUS

Use Meta Knight as your training dummy.

Grab Meta Knight and hold your finger over your shield button. Allow Meta Knight to jump release, and note how long it takes for your shield to arrive. That's how long you need to wait before you can DACUS.

Grab Meta Knight, adjust your hand position, release, ... DACUS. Repeat -- change your hand position back to normal so you can practice the switch.

I figure now that I have the hard stuff out of the way, I can just practice it for a few minutes everyday and I'll have it down in no time.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Thanks for the info Villi. If the reply gets some good feedback I'll feature it in the guide.

I just wanted to add, hitting the commands in the right order will not work. It's the timing of the inputs that makes or breaks a DACUS.

It's hard to explain through words, and it happens a little too fast to show on video, but I'll try...

*TAP JUMP ON, DEFAULT CONTROLS*

The time between hitting dash and c-stick Down is almost twice that of the time between hitting c-stick Down and A, which in turn is twice that of the space between A and Up.

It is a fluid motion, but it gradually gets faster. The time between c-stick Down and A (Assuming you know how to roll from forward to up well) is crucial. Don't go to fast. It's much slower that we seem to think. You should hit up JUST after hitting A.

DACUS is a lot like chain jacketing. Only the timing of ONE portion of the move matters, and lots of people are simply hitting the inputs too fast.

Note: You don't have to wait between dashing and c-stick down. I do it because it makes it easier to flow, and in my experience it works. I still can't do it 100% of the time, but I can get it 4 or 5 times in a row, which imo, is good enough.

Watch Sheik's waist when you try to DACUS. AS SOON as she starts to lunge forwards, you should hit A and Up.

 

[Villi]

You're canceling your dash attack with an up smash. You can't up smash by hitting A before you hit up, even if it might feel that way.

The timing between the C-stick and A is the important interval. The difficulty comes with coordinating Up with A.

 

[SinkingHigher]

You're canceling your dash attack with an up smash. You can't up smash by hitting A before you hit up, even if it might feel that way.

The timing between the C-stick and A is the important interval. The difficulty comes with coordinating Up with A.

Try it. It's just a fraction of a second but it works. It's like how you can hit Z and up to up smash.

 

[Flamingo]

And R+A with R bound to attack, I actually find that one more useful, seeing that R was formerly a button gone unpressed for me considering that I L to shield.

 

[Villi]

Try it. It's just a fraction of a second but it works. It's like how you can hit Z and up to up smash.

Of course I've tried it. We're splitting hairs, here. I believe that you only think you're hitting A first when in fact you're pressing up either before or simultaneous with A. If you're endeavoring to hit A first and succeed, it will lead to a failed DACUS. Pressing A before you hit up will never turn into an upsmash, no matter how quickly after A you press up.

 

[Flamingo]

Of course I've tried it. We're splitting hairs, here. I believe that you only think you're hitting A first when in fact you're pressing up either before or simultaneous with A. If you're endeavoring to hit A first and succeed, it will lead to a failed DACUS. Pressing A before you hit up will never turn into an upsmash, no matter how quickly after A you press up.

this is true. its like a few frame window.. the Sheiks have it rough haha

 

[Natural High]

The Wind from Vanish like, totally saved me the other day.

I was knocked off FD and I used Vanish like normal to try to recover to the ledge. Low-and-behold the Peach user I was playing against was running to the ledge, I imagine, to try to grab it and block my recovery. But then, as I reappeared the Wind pushed Peach in the opposite direction without turning her around (she was just at the tip of the stage) and I was able to grab the ledge safely.

That may have been just good timing, but what I'm trying to get across is that many people (especially opponents who might not know about it) might underestimate how much the Wind can influence a match...

 

[SinkingHigher]

hey guys.

i just discovered while fooling around on FD that you can ledgedrop >> wall cling but i cant recreate it

 

[Flamingo]

The Wind from Vanish like, totally saved me the other day.

I was knocked off FD and I used Vanish like normal to try to recover to the ledge. Low-and-behold the Peach user I was playing against was running to the ledge, I imagine, to try to grab it and block my recovery. But then, as I reappeared the Wind pushed Peach in the opposite direction without turning her around (she was just at the tip of the stage) and I was able to grab the ledge safely.

That may have been just good timing, but what I'm trying to get across is that many people (especially opponents who might not know about it) might underestimate how much the Wind can influence a match...

My friend's secondary is Jiggly, and he has a darn good Jiggly, and I can toss that creature around with the wind.. it's really funny! And on occasion, saves me!

Another friend of mine who plays Toon Link and I like to fight off the stage with one another, like gimpy battles sorta, and the wind saves me from time to time there.

hey guys.

i just discovered while fooling around on FD that you can ledgedrop >> wall cling but i cant recreate it

Like off the ledge part where u hang on to? that little part? I've wall jumped that part about 3 times, can't do it on purpose though, for when I try to re-create, Sheik grabs teh ledge. >.<

But if you're talking about that lower part, yeah, that one is fairly easy to cling.

Hey SinkingHigher ---> Watch Azen's Lucario @ 1:55... Was it like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ3JqhP6Qpw

 

[SinkingHigher]

i mean the edge. that time little lip you hold on to when you recover.

ive clinged to that MANY times, so i know its possible, but i just didnt know you could do it from a ledge drop. imo it would be sweet for edgeguarding.

 

[SinkingHigher]

w00t!

I just needlepulled a pikachu off the ledge and footstooled him! Oh yeah!

I think this little useless tech could turn out to be pretttyyy intterrressstttinnggg.

Oops. Double post. Lame >:

Just a note:

I just discovered a little tech that may or not be useful. I'll have to wait and see.

After you roll (I believe you have to roll backwards) you can flick the joystick forwards and hit Cstick Up to do a running u smash, only it's half the distance of a regular one. i have to get a consistent way to do it before i add it to the guide.

 

[Jo0]

hi I'm a nunchuck and wiimote user, and I'm having a hard time performing smash boost. I've turned on shake smash, and I've done it a few times but i just cant quite keep it consistent. Any ideas on how to help me perform it on command?

 

[Zankoku]

Yeah, use a Gamecube controller.

 

[Flamingo]

hi I'm a nunchuck and wiimote user, and I'm having a hard time performing smash boost. I've turned on shake smash, and I've done it a few times but i just cant quite keep it consistent. Any ideas on how to help me perform it on command?

Hardly any of us can do it "Consistent" either. The way I got mine down was practice, practice, practice... Try the claw-style.. I find it to be the easiest for me. Listen to Ankoku. The better players will be using GC controllers.

 

[Jo0]

the thing about GC controllers is that i dont feel really comfortable using it(they are bulky little things). with NC+WM i can do inputs and stuff faster and its just more of a relaxed position im in when im sitting on the couch with friends playing.

 

[slickmasterizzy]

someone should put together a priority list.

when two people attack each other at the same time it either cancels out both the attacks (equal priority like most jabs) or one attack hits through the other attack (like f-smashing with shiek into ganons f-smash). or the attacks both hit and both players go flying

i think it would really help shiek players to know hey dont try to use these moves against kirby or whoever because he has an attack that can hit you from that range that will hit you.

though nothing is more satisfying when two people hit each other and they BOTH go flying. haha

oh and along with this list how about a projectile canceling list. like for example you can jab some small samus blasts (or low % lucario moves) i know you can just dodge it but it seems faster (you can react quicker) if you smack it. its lowers the frames on attacks.

 

[SinkingHigher]

My friend's secondary is Jiggly, and he has a darn good Jiggly, and I can toss that creature around with the wind.. it's really funny! And on occasion, saves me!

Another friend of mine who plays Toon Link and I like to fight off the stage with one another, like gimpy battles sorta, and the wind saves me from time to time there.



Like off the ledge part where u hang on to? that little part? I've wall jumped that part about 3 times, can't do it on purpose though, for when I try to re-create, Sheik grabs teh ledge. >.<

But if you're talking about that lower part, yeah, that one is fairly easy to cling.

Hey SinkingHigher ---> Watch Azen's Lucario @ 1:55... Was it like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ3JqhP6Qpw

No, that's not it. You see the lip above there? That pathetically tiny thing your fingers hold on to? That.


As for the thing I mentioned earlier, if you DACUS immediately after a roll-dodge, you only go half the distance of a running U-smash.

Now that I've thought about it, anyone think this might have any good use? imo it turned out to be a dud.

 

[Tristan_win]

Just sharing the knowledge with everyone.

Sheik chain can stop all of Game and Watches approaches as well to Meta knight. His Neutral B can go though the chain but the time it takes for him to lunch one Bacon and cool down from it is enough time for you to pull the chain back and shield or dodge.

Also a glide vanish that's close to the edge can beat Game and watches up B if timed correctly. I haven't tested the chain against game and watches recovery yet....

 

[SinkingHigher]

Thanks for the input tristan. I've tested the GW recovery. If he is still launching he can sometimes make it through, but if he's lower down there's no chance.

I've been trying to get this chain think to work on MK but he always finds a hole. What is your technique?

I know this is probably why I'm having trouble but I tend to swing blindly in his general direction and then focus right on him with a chain lock when it connects.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Maybe I don't fully understand the implications of this, but doesn't the chain therefore make our matchups against MK and G&W EXTREMELY one sided?

 

[SinkingHigher]

Another random note.

I was playing wifi a few days ago and Yoshi did that charge at me where he gets all up in his shell and such. Ordinarily I spotdodge or something, but this time I just ducked. He went right past me, turned around and went through me again.

I don't have my brawl CD with me, but if anyone's interested, would you mind checking? A CPU will do the trick, since this is solely move properties. I did it in the center of battlefield if that helps.

 

[Dark Deku]

Nice guide. I ****ing hate it when someone infinite stalls the whole match in a FFA match.

 

[Tristan_win]

Maybe I don't fully understand the implications of this, but doesn't the chain therefore make our matchups against MK and G&W EXTREMELY one sided?

You would think so wouldn't you blistering?

~reasons why Tristan hasn't switch to meta knight yet~