Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

[DSP]

Seconding the question from the previous page - is a non-hack PAL solution in the works? There was never one for BBrawl v1 and I (and many others too, I'm sure of it) would really like to try it.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I don't think that there will be a pal version until all the .pacs are changed from NTSC to PAL

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

We mostly have a solution to boot without permanent installation on PAL involving bannerbomb and riivolution, but we're kinda hung up on the NTSC -> PAL .pac conversion process. Dantarion was working on it before, but with the way things seem now, we may have to cook something up. Don't worry though; we haven't forgotten PAL users!

 

[G_Man]

Nintendo is very busy to impede the players from using HBC-Channel. This war will never stop
A BBrawl-PAL-Version that can be played without HBC would be a gift from heaven ^^ .

 

[Fledgling]

The changes to the stages have not been implemented in my game, regardless of whether or not the .pac files have been put onto my SD card. What the hell am I doing wrong here?

 

[Thinkaman]

The changes to the stages have not been implemented in my game, regardless of whether or not the .pac files have been put onto my SD card. What the hell am I doing wrong here?

That's very strange; are you sure you have them in the right directory, and sure character changes *are* in effect?

 

[Steeler]

stealth, after just a few tries, they were able to do it consistently for chains of at least 60%+ on pit (one of the easiest to CG). i'm sure with dedicated practice it'd be no problem on most characters, some weird ones like jiggs may be unfeasible though. but since this is the fthrow chain, ICs will run out of room on most stages...it seems like a DDD chaingrab with a lot more damage. they didn't succeed at the other CGs.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I know B-throw is possible.

 

[Fledgling]

That's very strange; are you sure you have them in the right directory, and sure character changes *are* in effect?

Character changes are most definitely in effect. I main Samus, so it's rather obvious.

pf/stage/melee, correct? That's where they are. And nothing seems to have changed. The bottom half of Dialga's stage is still there, Mushroomy Kingdom still scrolls at normal speed, and the death boundaries on Corneria are exactly the same...

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Mushroomy Kingdom's scroll speed is changed by .gct code (same with all speed changes to stages other than the loading speed on Castle Siege), not .pac file. Hmm, when you start a match in versus mode on the Halberd, does the floor immediately drop out or not? There is a code not in effect at all for you if it does not drop out instantly which indicates some deeper problems here. I might suspect that somehow the .gct is being misread which may mean you have more incorrect behavior on your end with the stage stuff merely being the most obvious. At the very least, is our custom stage select screen loading (it should have 27 stages on the first page, in a totally different order than before)?

Thinkaman will have to take over from here when he wakes up; I'm out of time for today. Your problem is odd, but it's probably solvable.

 

[Fledgling]

The Halberd platform does not immediately drop out, but the custom SSS loads.

 

[Thinkaman]

Fledgling, want to hop on the BBrawl chat? (www.balancedbrawl.net on the left hand tab, reload frame in firefox)

 

[Fledgling]

Over there now. Shall I have BBrawl booted up?

EDIT: It's all good now, thanks to Thinkaman's help. I PM'ed you about what we discussed in the BBrawl chat.

 

[Picartman]

Is there any way to make the Balanced Brawl changes permanent? I don't want to have an SD card in my Wii all the time. :\

 

[JOE!]

Is there any way to make the Balanced Brawl changes permanent? I don't want to have an SD card in my Wii all the time. :\

...that will require hax...

 

[libertyernie]

You could use Riivolution and a USB drive too. But it's slow to load, especially if you load a common5 from USB. And I think one of the menu-related files (mu_menumain, maybe?) makes it crash.
That said, this is usually how I load BBrawl

 

[Sarcastic Horse]

I don't post on this forum very often, I usually just look around and read what is going on. A couple of my friends had told me that there was a brawl mod that just came out. I was a bit skeptical at first, since I was disappointed with Brawl+, but the installation was easy enough that I thought I should give it a try. I could not be more pleased with the results. The character tweaking is excellent and it makes me want to go through every character again and try out new things. I just wanted to express my gratitude and jubilance with this end product. I usually just played as Zelda in 4 player matches but now I can select her 1v1 with great confidence XD. Thanks again and keep up the great work!

 

[Sleek Media]

Normally, I hate these "rebalancing" mods (especially Melee 2.0 aka Brawl+), but I gotta say, you guys have done a really good job. Every character does feel viable now, and there's no "transitional" phase the player has to go through. It's fun to expirament with each new character and try out the new features. Mystery Gift is easily my favorite! I'd like to see this become a tournament standard. Kudos, and keep up the good work.

 

[kaizo13]

the Brawl+ team have been saying it all along, and i'll say it again.....Brawl+ is not/was never meant to be Melee 2.0

that's Project M's job

 

[Varna]

the Brawl+ team have been saying it all along, and i'll say it again.....Brawl+ is not/was never meant to be Melee 2.0

that's Project M's job

Just because that wasn't their intention doesn't mean that isn't how they come off on the majority of casual players.

 

[CountKaiser]

Then the majority of casual players are ignorant.

It's has been said time and again that Brawl+ is not, will not, and was never meant to be melee 2.0. Hell, Jiang worte up an entire thesis stating the purpose of Brawl+.

I suppose you can't account for idiots.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Just because that wasn't their intention doesn't mean that isn't how they come off on the majority of casual players.

Casual players are idiots.

Case in point: my casual friends couldn't tell what changed on a blind test of Brawl-. BRAWL MINUS. (Well, until I whacked them with a warlock punch)

 

[Thinkaman]

Casual players are idiots.

Case in point: my casual friends couldn't tell what changed on a blind test of Brawl-. BRAWL MINUS. (Well, until I whacked them with a warlock punch)

Wow, really?

I actually have done a lot of blind vBrawl/BBrawl/Brawl+ "taste tests". What I've seen is most casual players notice Brawl+ (in particular the hitstun "something's wrong with the TV, it's not responsive", ledge mechanics "something's wrong with the ledge", and bad animations "Ganon's jab is glitching out"; they also notice the hitlag change after a while, but not immediately.)

I'd imagine those same people would notice the change in Brawl- almost immediately, for hitstun alone if nothing else.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It doesn't really matter if someone thinks that Brawl+ is Melee 2.0. They are most likely casual players, who never played Melee or just don't like the changed physics.

 

[Jack Kieser]

It doesn't really matter if someone thinks that Brawl+ is Melee 2.0. They are most likely casual players, who never played Melee or just don't like the changed physics.

I've only played B+ 2 or 3 times, but I played Melee since the day of its release, and played it competitively for over 2 years. That being said, after looking at the changelist...

*Momentum Capture -> Melee
*Aerial Landing Lag for most characters has been cut by 50% -> Melee
*Hitstun -> Melee
*Shieldstun -> Melee
*Dash Dancing -> Melee
*No Autosweetspot Ledges -> Melee
*Scar Jumping -> "basically a technique in Melee"

...yeah. Brawl+ is Melee 2.0.

 

[Isane]

Guys, im playing bbrawl ALOT with my friends, we dont play normal brawl a long time, i main Link and i dont know if this is any bug or not: when i recover and cancel with zair and it ALMOST grab edge, when im falling i can up+b again and cancel again with zair, but this dont occur third time or if zair is far from getting the edge.

Sry my bad english, Im Brazillian.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I just look at the changes to Falco's jump physics and Jigglypuff's forward throw, among other changes, and I think the Brawl+ design direction is kinda obvious. Actions speak louder than words.

Casual players are also not idiots, and they don't deserve to be treated as second class players. They don't understand everything going on under the hood in these games, but we made sure our design was, as much as possible, natural for people who don't understand a lot of complicated game mechanics. After all, a game you have to be an expert on to enjoy is pretty much defective by design. In any case, elitism is just poison for the community; it shrinks the tournament scene in the long run, and it creates unnecessary conflict.

A lot of casual players ask if this project "removes tiers" which in itself has the simple explanation of "it makes them a lot less important". I don't begrudge that kind of question that so quickly communicates a purpose to them, and I do want them as players. Similarly, we offer essentially infinite technical support to anyone who needs help getting Balanced Brawl running so being poor at technical computer stuff doesn't stop you from playing. We don't turn anyone away, and I think it would be foolishness to begin doing so. Let's stop with talk of how X players are idiots or how we shouldn't care what X players think. It's just wrongheaded for any game designer to entertain.

So, in other news, Balanced Brawl just this morning crossed the critical download threshold. We now have had more than 1337 unique downloads!

EDIT: Isane, that's a bug in the sense we didn't originally intend it, but we knew about it before release. It proved very hard to fix, and we decided not to hold up the release for it. The bug is a slight mechanical problem that helps Link in a small way so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal (the intended behavior is that he always enters helpless). Feel free to take whatever advantage of it you can, but I doubt it will change very much in how Link plays.

 

[CountKaiser]

I've only played B+ 2 or 3 times, but I played Melee since the day of its release, and played it competitively for over 2 years. That being said, after looking at the changelist...



...yeah. Brawl+ is Melee 2.0.

Of those changes

Aerial landing lag reduction was in 64

Hitstun was in 64

Shieldstun was in 64

Dash Dancing was in 64

No autosweetspot ledges was in 64

Scar jumping is unique to melee

I don't even know if momentum capture was in 64 or not.

Point is, most of the mechanics being put into brawl+ have always existed, and are not necessarily unique to melee.

And yes, I know that brawl+ has borrowed some things from melee, namely fox's jc shine and Jiggs rest. This, however, does not mean that brawl+ wishes to replicate melee. Melee had some good ideas, we simply want to borrow them.

Once again, if you're looking for melee 2.0, go to Project:M.

This post can explain my point much better, though.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7753037&postcount=1

 

[Shell]

Let's stop this discussion of what B+ is here, not really because it's the wrong thread (although that's important), but because both sides have already made up their minds and this isn't really productive to anyone.

 

[bleyva]

(especially Melee 2.0 aka Brawl+)

*insert two-page thread derailment*

i will be lookin to try out BBrawl v2 shortly, it actually looks pretty good

 

[Uncreative719]

I am having trouble using BBrawl on my Wii. I am using an unmodded Wii and I can't get BBrawl to load up. I saw some videos about how it is supposed to load but when I go to the Stage Builder it freezes when the Gecko OS is suppose to pop up. I downloaded the file from the site and put it on my SD card. Do I have to have Gecko OS on my SD card somewhere? If so where?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Did you remove all custom stages including the ones Brawl came with?

As for Brawl+, I will state the reason I do not support it is because it really really changes too much about how the characters play. For example, it really disappointed me a lot when they did something like remove Mario's SH Double aerial options. Yeah there are more combos, but they all feel extremely dumb and unnatural to me. Especially since most of the combos are really really easy to do...unlike in Melee where almost all combos take time and practice to execute properly.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Wow, really?

I actually have done a lot of blind vBrawl/BBrawl/Brawl+ "taste tests". What I've seen is most casual players notice Brawl+ (in particular the hitstun "something's wrong with the TV, it's not responsive", ledge mechanics "something's wrong with the ledge", and bad animations "Ganon's jab is glitching out"; they also notice the hitlag change after a while, but not immediately.)

I'd imagine those same people would notice the change in Brawl- almost immediately, for hitstun alone if nothing else.

Your casual players > my casual players. They wouldn't recognize a change if it doesn't hit them with a hammer. They wouldn't be able to tell in Brawl+ that it was changed at all, and in brawl- I'd have to do something drastic like pull out lolimar or bowser.

 

[Uncreative719]

Did you remove all custom stages including the ones Brawl came with?

Yes I made sure there was no custom stages on the SD card. The only thing on the card was the files from the BBrawl website.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

You have to remove custom stages from the Wii console as well. The way smash stack works, it has to be the first custom stage the Wii "sees". Also, be sure to go to the stage builder immediately after booting up to maximize success, and yes, that means once in great while you do get unlucky and it doesn't work (just try again if that happens). If you don't want to lose the stages, you could move them to another SD card or, alternatively, move the actual files themselves to your computer before getting smash stack involved.

 

[Uncreative719]

You have to remove custom stages from the Wii console as well. The way smash stack works, it has to be the first custom stage the Wii "sees". Also, be sure to go to the stage builder immediately after booting up to maximize success, and yes, that means once in great while you do get unlucky and it doesn't work (just try again if that happens). If you don't want to lose the stages, you could move them to another SD card or, alternatively, move the actual files themselves to your computer before getting smash stack involved.

I have made sure all custom stages on both the Wii and SD card were removed. I have tried to run BBrawl several times but it never worked. Is there something else I should do to the files or am I just having really bad luck?

Edit: This is as far as it gets before it freezes.

 

[Mit]

What size is your SD card? It can't be any higher than 2GB as it doesn't work with SDHC cards.

 

[Uncreative719]

What size is your SD card? It can't be any higher than 2GB as it doesn't work with SDHC cards.

It is only 512mb.

 

[Mit]

Hmmm, then you definitely might want to try a different SD card. If it's a 512 it's probably pretty old. Did you try formatting the SD card and then putting the BBrawl files on it?

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

The SD card being old should not be a problem; in fact, that's in a way more of a guarantee it should work. You may be a victim of random file corruption (which is not specifically related to us but is just something that happens once in a great while when downloading files off the internet). Try deleting Bbrawl off the SD card, redownloading from the site, and putting fresh files on the SD card.

That screenshot tells me the loader is, well, loading, but it is somehow crashing after that point. It reading corrupt files is my best guess; if my solution doesn't work, I'll ask Thinkaman what he thinks about this next time I see him.