Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

[ぱみゅ]

Oh and guys, remember to change your signatures.

Already did =D

 

[deepseadiva]

I've made a new sig to commemorate the second release. It's already linked and centered, so you can just quote this post and make some copypasta.

​

Viva BBrawl!

 

[Mit]

That looks pretty awesome. Any chance the hand could appear inside of the rotating ring? I'm guessing not without a bunch of manual editing, as the ring appears to just be in-between the hand and the striped background. Still looks quite awesome though. Definitely more eyecatching.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I've made a new sig to commemorate the second release. It's already linked and centered, so you can just quote this post and make some copypasta.

​

Viva BBrawl!

Lrn2Transparency

 

[deepseadiva]

That looks pretty awesome. Any chance the hand could appear inside of the rotating ring? I'm guessing not without a bunch of manual editing, as the ring appears to just be in-between the hand and the striped background. Still looks quite awesome though. Definitely more eyecatching.

That was my main idea, but yea, it would have had to been completely manually.

Lrn2Transparency

My experiences trying to get GIFs to be transparent have always ended in disaster. See:

Fig 1

Fig 2

But if anyone can teach me, or if you know anyone who knows how to fix the stupid white pixel dissolves, PLEASE refer me.

 

[Jack Kieser]

So... did anyone see that article on Joystiq, totally hyping, promoting, and linking to Balanced Brawl's homepage? It even makes sure to mention that you don't need to install stuff to play it, and that all you need is an SD card.

Yeah, hype much? :D

 

[deepseadiva]

A Joystiq article.

OMFG

 

[Jon Farron]

i might do this.... but im worried about homebrew D:
EDIT: oh my freaking god... yay no homebrew needed!!!!!!!! :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dansal]

Why are you worried about homebrew?

 

[Thinkaman]

So I'm about to start making cheatsheet changes-at-a-glance images similar to the ones made for the public preview. What information do you guys consider critical for this? It should be the bare minimum needed for someone to glance at and know what thye want to know.

The main purpose of this image is really to prevent johns and keep people from being cheated; "BS!--I didn't know Falcon Punch had super armor!!!"

I'm probably going to do a page of equal sized boxes in the CSS layout.

 

[Jon Farron]

Why are you worried about homebrew?

Im worried it'll brick my wii when i update it, and ill have to update it when i get a new game lol.
Also if it does brick ill have to pay HUGE money to get it fixed cuz its hacked :/

 

[dansal]

I've already updated and it works fine?

to Thinkaman: some changes don't have obvious uses even though they might be powerful, and some have a bewildering variety of uses! At least one clear, concise, bullet-pointed use for each bonus would be great.

 

[Jack Kieser]

lololol, Homebrew doesn't brick Wiis... Nintendo's buggy Boot2 update code bricks Wiis!

 

[Thinkaman]

I've already updated and it works fine?

to Thinkaman: some changes don't have obvious uses even though they might be powerful, and some have a bewildering variety of uses! At least one clear, concise, bullet-pointed use for each bonus would be great.

Is this directed at the cheat-sheet or the website? We really don't have space to write an analysis for every character on one sheet of paper.

 

[Almas]

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed your website has no mention of the coders who produced things which you use in your project - Comex, Phantom Wings, Paprika Killer etc. You even use one of my codes!

 

[Thinkaman]

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed your website has no mention of the coders who produced things which you use in your project - Comex, Phantom Wings, Paprika Killer etc. You even use one of my codes!

Sorry, I guess credit on the code files doesn't quite cut it with the new front end presentation. Where do you think credit would be appropriate?

 

[Almas]

You don't really even give credit on the code files, which is what I have issue with. There are several codes on there with known creators who have been completely neglected. As long as the information is available somewhere it's acceptable, but your website implies that you are the sole creators of the project, which is not the case.

If I had to make a suggestion, I would suggest adding to your 'about' page another paragraph mentioning that you created the changes, not the methods from which the changes are implemented.

 

[Thinkaman]

You don't really even give credit on the code files, which is what I have issue with. There are several codes on there with known creators who have been completely neglected. As long as the information is available somewhere it's acceptable, but your website implies that you are the sole creators of the project, which is not the case.

If I had to make a suggestion, I would suggest adding to your 'about' page another paragraph mentioning that you created the changes, not the methods from which the changes are implemented.

I'm glad you caught this, it looks like I uploaded the wrong file. Apologies, it will be fixed immediately.

Edit: Done.

 

[Eldiran]

So I'm about to start making cheatsheet changes-at-a-glance images similar to the ones made for the public preview. What information do you guys consider critical for this? It should be the bare minimum needed for someone to glance at and know what thye want to know.

The main purpose of this image is really to prevent johns and keep people from being cheated; "BS!--I didn't know Falcon Punch had super armor!!!"

I'm probably going to do a page of equal sized boxes in the CSS layout.

I'd have to recommend pretty much all the changes except for the ones that only featured a slight modification to damage, knockback or angle. For example, Link's Up+B knockback change would definitely need to be included, whereas his forward tilt or down tilt knockback change you could probably get away with not mentioning.

I think pretty much everything else is rather vital, such as SA/frame speed/movement/freefall/IASA changes.

All nerfs should be listed, naturally, even if they are effectively minor.

 

[hotgarbage]

First off I've got to say that all of this is simply impressive. The website is extremely well done in particular. Congrats on the release and great job you two, I'm not sure how you've done it.

The video was hilarious by the way . One thing though - some parts were a bit difficult on the eyes due to the video not being deinterlaced. Just something to keep in mind next time .


My initial impressions of Peach (my most familiar character) are positive. My favorite change still being her nair <3. I initially dismissed her side-b change as a gimmick, but after looking at it some more it could be pretty cool. I'll see how it holds up when playing other people. My heart still longs for that elusive killing fthrow (so that her pressure game is threatening at higher percents! *insert other rationalizations to support my bias here*) but she may be good enough now; we'll see!

I like what you guys have done to mk's nado. In BBrawl v1 when I used nado I thought "this move suuuuuucks". Now it seems good, but actually reasonable. So kudos for that.

On another note, the update got mentioned on Joystiq: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/19/unofficial-super-smash-bros-brawl-rebalancing-update-released/

That's awesome . The prospect of the project reaching brawl players outside of smashboards is pretty exciting.

Lastly, from the talkinator chat:
UnluckyKitten: Is there a board or forum specifically for people who want to use BB?
UnluckyKitten: So they can set up games and such.

Perhaps this should be a addressed on the site? Also is it ok for one to ask for matches in this thread?

 

[Mit]

For cheat sheets I'd recommend not withholding any changes. I'd say have a picture and a large bullet point list of all the more major changes, and then at the bottom include the technical breakdown of everything in smaller print, similar to how the character pages are on the website. A lot of the smaller, minor changes really open up certain moves or give new uses to them, and I think most mains appreciate knowing about them when playing BBrawl, moreso than their opponents.

To Meno, fixing transparencies is easy--don't use .gifs! Use .pngs! They support partial transparency, and every major browser these days also supports it. So, you don't have to worry about the whites and whatnot. Before saving your image in photoshop or wherever, remove the background and leave transparent space open, then just make sure you save as a .png. Although perhaps you know this already? Your avatar appears to be a .png, even though on the surface it's extension is a .gif. However, when I save it to my computer, it's extension is .gif.png. ?_? It must be a .png though, because that shadow utilizes partial transparency and works on all background colors.

 

[Suntan Luigi]

Amazing work! We really gotta hype up this release with lots of tournies.

 

[deepseadiva]

I did know that, I use PNGs for mostly everything.

But I'm forced to use GIFs since PNGs don't support animation. Unless they do...?

I only know of APNGs, but those are tricky.

 

[Mit]

I did know that, I use PNGs for mostly everything.

But I'm forced to use GIFs since PNGs don't support animation. Unless they do...?

I only know of APNGs, but those are tricky.

lol wow, yeah you're right, huge oversight on my part. I think I was thrown off by not noticing any animation in that Street Fighter banner (which I now can't figure out how I missed).

But in that case, yes, I would've done exactly what you did, because it's so easy to get away with on a site like Smashboards, because 99% of the people here are using the same skin. My avatar does the same thing (as the space behind Captain Falcon is made transparent using a multiply blending style and is not actually erased, and I didn't feel like manually erasing it ).

And I support tournies for this, even if they're Wifi. Can't wait to see how Renegade's local tournies turn out though.

 

[Thinkaman]

For cheat sheets I'd recommend not withholding any changes. I'd say have a picture and a large bullet point list of all the more major changes, and then at the bottom include the technical breakdown of everything in smaller print, similar to how the character pages are on the website.

As much as we wish it were possible, this isn't even in the ballpark of feasible. Technically, this is the full, unabridged, nothing-left-out list of .pac changes in a single file:

http://balancedbrawl.net/download/MASTER_CHANGELOG_V2.txt

Good luck fitting that only one page with any font size...

 

[Jack Kieser]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, that's a lot of changes.

 

[Mit]

As much as we wish it were possible, this isn't even in the ballpark of feasible. Technically, this is the full, unabridged, nothing-left-out list of .pac changes in a single file:

http://balancedbrawl.net/download/MASTER_CHANGELOG_V2.txt

Good luck fitting that only one page with any font size...

Well, obviously not that detailed, most people can't even interpret what most of that really means

Here's an example of what I was thinking. Here's the changelist from the website:

Captain Falcon Full Technical Change List

    * Jab 3 frame 6 hitbox 0-2 properties: Base Knockback (10 -> 15)
    * Jab 3 frame 8 hitbox 0-2 properties: Knockback Growth (70 -> 80)
    * Dash attack frame 7 hitbox 0 properties: Angle (65 -> 75), Knockback Growth (40 -> 25), Base Knockback (80 -> 100)
    * Dash attack frame 10 hitbox 0 properties: Knockback Growth (40 -> 15), Base Knockback (65 -> 80)
    * Forward tilt angled up hitbox 0 properties: Damage (11 -> 12), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Forward tilt angled up hitbox 1-2 properties: Damage (10 -> 11), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Forward tilt un-angled hitbox 0 properties: Damage (10 -> 11), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Forward tilt un-angled hitbox 1-2 properties: Damage (9 -> 10), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Forward tilt angled down hitbox 0 properties: Damage (10 -> 11), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Forward tilt angled down hitbox 1-2 properties: Damage (9 -> 10), Knockback Growth (100 -> 110)
    * Up tilt hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (* -> 20)
    * Down tilt hitbox 0 properties: Damage (10 -> 12), Angle (80 -> 85), Base Knockback (25 -> 20)
    * Down tilt hitbox 1 properties: Damage (10 -> 12), Angle (40 -> 35), Base Knockback (25 -> 20)
    * Down tilt hitbox 2 properties: Damage (10 -> 12), Angle (20 -> 15), Base Knockback (25 -> 20)
    * Forward smash angled up hitbox 0-2 properties: Knockback Growth (85 -> 90)
    * Forward smash angled down hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (40 -> 35)
    * Down smash frame 18 hitbox 0-2 properties: Base Knockback (20 -> 35)
    * Neutral aerial frame 20 hitbox 0-2 properties: Damage (6 -> 8)
    * Forward aerial frame 14 hitbox 0 properties: Damage (19 -> 22)
    * Pummel hitbox properties: Damage (2 -> 3), Element (None -> Electric)
    * Back throw throw box properties: Knockback Growth (130 -> 135), Base Knockback (30 -> 40)
    * Forward throw throw box properties: Knockback Growth (105 -> 20), Base Knockback (45 -> 75)
    * Up throw throw box properties: Knockback Growth (105 -> 10), Base Knockback (70 -> 85)
    * Down throw throw box properties: Knockback Growth (34 -> 20), Base Knockback (75 -> 80)
    * Falcon Punch (forward): 25% heavy armor on frames 9-57
    * Falcon Punch (reverse): 25% heavy armor on frames 21-57
    * Raptor Boost (grounded, attack) hitbox 0 properties: Damage (7 -> 9), Knockback Growth (52 -> 30), Base Knockback (100 -> 95)
    * Raptor Boost (aerial, attack) hitbox 0-1 properties: Damage (7 -> 10), Knockback Growth (70 -> 60), Base Knockback (60 -> 70)
    * Raptor Boost (aerial, attack) hitbox 2-3 properties: Damage (7 -> 10), Knockback Growth (80 -> 65), Base Knockback (60 -> 75)
    * Raptor Boost (aerial, attack): enters fall 1 instead of helpless fall state
    * Raptor Boost (aerial, attack): selective IASA into special moves on frame 43
    * Falcon Dive throw box properties: Damage (12 -> 14), Base Knockback (40 -> 50)
    * Falcon Kick (grounded) frame 15 hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (45 -> 65), Knockback Growth (70 -> 0), Base Knockback (50 -> 115)
    * Falcon Kick (grounded) frame 18 hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (85 -> 80), Knockback Growth (40 -> 0), Base Knockback (62 -> 100)
    * Falcon Kick (grounded) frame 26 hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (50 -> 95), Knockback Growth (60 -> 0), Base Knockback (50 -> 95)
    * Falcon Kick (aerial) frame 16 hibox 0-1 properties: Angle (* -> 0), Knockback Growth (70 -> 0), Base Knockback (40 -> 95)
    * Falcon Kick (aerial) frame 19 hibox 0-1 properties: Angle (* -> 10), Knockback Growth (65 -> 0), Base Knockback (40 -> 95)
    * Falcon Kick (aerial) frame 27 hibox 0-1 properties: Angle (* -> 20), Knockback Growth (60 -> 0), Base Knockback (40 -> 95)
    * Falcon Kick (landing) hitbox 0-2 properties: Damage (9 -> 7), Angle (80 -> 15), Knockback Growth (20 -> 0), Base Knockback (80 -> 60)
    * Falcon Kick (grounded) grounded ending: cancel into Falcon Punch, Falcon Dive, or Raptor Boost on frame 2
    * Falcon Kick (grounded) aerial ending: cancel into Falcon Punch, Falcon Dive, Raptor Boost, or Falcon Kick (no voice clip) on frame 2
    * Falcon Kick (aerial) ending: cancel into Falcon Punch, Falcon Dive, or Raptor Boost on frame 2
    * Falcon Kick (landing) ending: cancel into Falcon Punch, Falcon Dive, Raptor Boost, or Falcon Kick (no voice clip) on frame 8
    * Falcon Kick wall bounce: cancel into Falcon Punch, Falcon Dive, Raptor Boost, air dodge, or normal aerial attack on frame 8

And here's what I'd probably do with it for a cheat sheet:

I'd try and include most of that, but compress some of it into single entries. Like, for Jab 3, just something like "Jab 3 is safe on hit and combos from Jab 2" or something like that. Or just, "Forward tilt (all variations) knockback growth (100 > 110)"

I don't know, I just wouldn't want any big minor changes left out. Like, Falcon's utilt isn't mentioned under the major changes list on his character page, as it's probably just considered under "Many of his normal moves saw assorted buffs", but his utilt change is more major than some of those major changes listed, and heavily affects his game in BBrawl. That said, I'd really hope to see that "Up tilt hitbox 0-2 properties: Angle (* -> 20)" included on the cheat sheet.

So, yeah, take from that what you will, I'm sure you see what I'm saying.

 

[dansal]

I really hate reading tiny text, can't all that be summarized in a sentence or two?

EDIT- something like this: Almost all attacks hit harder, falcon kick can be cancelled into any special (including falcon kick if you hit the ground), Raptor boost doesn't make him helpless on hit, and falcon punch has super armor.

That's mostly what i'm getting from that changelist anyway, most of his attacks have more knockback/damage.

 

[Mit]

Angles and knockback on which specific attacks is very important to mains, and I can tell I'd much prefer a much larger, more comprehensive changelist for Falcon than what you stated.

I'd expect to see something like what you stated in a larger, more noticeable list on the page, with more detailed changes listed at the bottom in small print, for those of us who needs the specifics.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Use small text as dansai said.
For details, use a laptop with internet.

 

[Mit]

I don't think people debating whether or not to participate in a BBrawl tourney at a venue aren't always going to have a laptop with internet on them, unless you mean bring one to the venue, but it's even less likely someone has a anywhere-wireless internet card for their laptop.

Dansai's description was far too vague and I'm sure Thinka already had more in mind. I mean, this is an entire sheet of paper, right? There's way more you can fit on there.

 

[Ussi]

Can't you do a show and hide text per character so people just look up the changes of the character they want to see?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falcon's Jab got changed? I'm going to have to explore that one. The most important thing I want to know is if you can still cancel off Jab3 into more Jabs (to do so, hold the A button and release after the third hit, and with proper timing press it again)

 

[Mit]

Can't you do a show and hide text per character so people just look up the changes of the character they want to see?

?_?

We're talking about sheets that contain the changes for characters that you can physically print out to show at tourneys and events. As for the internet and whatnot, they've already got rather detailed changelists for all characters up at their official website, all sectioned off by character.

And yeah, I'm wondering about the same thing A2Z.

 

[Ussi]

?_?

We're talking about sheets that contain the changes for characters that you can physically print out to show at tourneys and events. As for the internet and whatnot, they've already got rather detailed changelists for all characters up at their official website, all sectioned off by character.

And yeah, I'm wondering about the same thing A2Z.

Best advice is right here then

Use small text as dansai said.
For details, use a laptop with internet.

 

[Mit]

Are you talking about a laptop setup at the venue that people can use?

If that was my laptop I think I'd much rather have it on the sheets of paper, and not have tons of people trying to look at my laptop. That, and I'd probably have to pre-load all the pages in a browser, because what if there was no internet?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Most people would only look for the most significant changes.
Few will explore deep on those details, only if they REALLY care.
You can either have internet, or a Word or .txt file filled with those details.

 

[MorpheusVGX]

I agree.. I have experience this.. while trying to promote Balanced Brawl in Buenos Aires. Even people interested in a balanced game won't want to read all those changes. I think that what was done at the official site was proper. To have changes listed by quality and not quantity. Also, most people won't care of what you say about the changes. You have to show them. You have to convince them to try this Smash 3.2 for a while. When they see the changes in full color and motion they will really consider the changes, especially if they haven't see a hacked Brawl game before. Just list the biggest changes. I was thinking with a good friend of mine here in Panama, based on our experience, what is the best way to promote this wonderful hack. To me it goes like this:

1. Tell them there is a 3.2 version of Smash Bros. Here, most of the game flaws are fixed and all the cast is powerful and balanced so there is more diversity and fun.
2. Tell them that most of the characters have new abilities (most will be attracted to this if they are not that attracted to balance).
3. Tell them that to apply the hack they just need an SD card and they don't need a modified Wii.
4. Attract them to hacked Brawl by showing them all good things about hacked Brawl: infinite replays, name tags, unrestricted camera, custom textures and music. This helps a lot!
5. A lot of players are lazy to learn a new thing, or they are scared of the change. But this will be all gone when they play this game for a while. Some of the most stubborn players had to admit that this was like another different game, good in its own way. If you get to this point and they get to see this a different but better game, you have them! Because in the end, if many people accept this is a better game than vBrawl, there is no reason to go back to a worse thing. This is something good about point 2 (new abilities).

 

[ぱみゅ]

I think "3.2" is a mistake, and is more proper "correcting patch", but, if that works....

But yes, the most effective way to attrect people is by showing the effect of the changes, not by describing them.

btw, "NO HOMEBREW NEEDED" is the most important thing we can use!!!

 

[Renegade TX2000]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=272519