Meta Australian Smash 4 General Ruleset Discussion

[Shaya]

Seclusion being our usual lack of interaction with the rest of the smash community, something I consider global. We're not as bad as we once were. But we need to be getting on twitter. Embracing da e-sport. To me it's a privilege to be apart of what I consider the global smash scene.

Scoot, you misunderstand a lot of things and are heavily prone to feeling persecuted in any conversation whatsoever. I didn't make it obvious, but my condescension came after you made out I was "demeaning other people", it also didn't help that you estranged yourself from any point made with "in regards to my opinion against being mostly personal preference and not necessarily a solid argument either way. Last thing, I really disagree with this mentality. (Love you Shaya)" You should speak for yourself or at the very least be coherent (I'm still confused).

I may not be good as a condescending prick but you aren't good at making a point (that isn't obvious or otherwise been said); of course we're deciding for ourselves, this is NORMAL FOR EVERY SINGLE SCENE and it's happening RIGHT NOW. You've interpreted things as egotistical (yep trying to be interconnected is egotistical) and my belittlement of you due to lack of "investment" (no, it's because of how you communicate), and as rare as it is for me, I found it amusing (Luke's rubbing off on me, it's usually depressing). So here we are, where my original "why?" compounds itself indefinitely.

Also dammit Luke, I deserve this, I know. You told me to stop. You begged me to stop.
But to address the misunderstanding with you, it isn't about travel. It's about us all being able to share in growth and representing ourselves outwards. Why would I want our scene to piddle to just what foreign scenes say or do? We've never been like that. I already feel our scene is behind but I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to be.

@ Luco , that's why I did say "traditional". It isn't really our fault we're a western nation in the middle of the ocean far far away from all society and how that's impacted us culturally over 200 years, but like omg we JUST GOT NETFLIX. We're almost there, team.

 

[Attila_]

States that run customs:

Curious to know how you plan on dealing with this? Or will you just accept it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waR9js3dabI

 

[Splice]

looks harder to set up than IC's wobble.
well kinda the same really i dont actually know how hard/easy it is to space out pikachu.

 

[M]

Yeah it's ridiculously hard to set up, given the positioning and startup time for jolt. And of course the fact it can't be started at any percent. This one's not a big deal. Single customs like Heavy Skull Bash are more of a threat than this.

 

[swordsaint]

Seclusion being our usual lack of interaction with the rest of the smash community, something I consider global. We're not as bad as we once were. But we need to be getting on twitter. Embracing da e-sport. To me it's a privilege to be apart of what I consider the global smash scene.

Scoot, you misunderstand a lot of things and are heavily prone to feeling persecuted in any conversation whatsoever. I didn't make it obvious, but my condescension came after you made out I was "demeaning other people", it also didn't help that you estranged yourself from any point made with "in regards to my opinion against being mostly personal preference and not necessarily a solid argument either way. Last thing, I really disagree with this mentality. (Love you Shaya)" You should speak for yourself or at the very least be coherent (I'm still confused).

I didn't make out anything. I simply asked what the point of saying that was, it was phrased as a question because it WAS a question. You claim I misunderstand a lot of things, yet here you are admittedly condescending because you couldn't understand that. It READ as you being condescending (so I asked what it was if it wasn't that) "hurr durr I'm interconnected and you're not I'm so much better than you and my opinion is more valid!!!" (See two can play at the deliberately misconstrued quotes game)

I didn't MISUNDERSTAND YOU, I DIDN'T undestand you. And then I asked about it, saying "if this isn't what you're saying, what are you saying?" I literally asked you to correct me I'm wrong, not sure how that begs you to be a ****.

I may not be good as a condescending prick but you aren't good at making a point (that isn't obvious or otherwise been said); of course we're deciding for ourselves, this is NORMAL FOR EVERY SINGLE SCENE and it's happening RIGHT NOW. You've interpreted things as egotistical (yep trying to be interconnected is egotistical) and my belittlement of you due to lack of "investment" (no, it's because of how you communicate), and as rare as it is for me, I found it amusing (Luke's rubbing off on me, it's usually depressing). So here we are, where my original "why?" compounds itself indefinitely.

As I just stated, trying to be interconnected isn't egotistical, hell I never used that word at all. Saying your connection with others scenes is superior to our little "seclusion complex" is insulting and snobby. Everything you just said was completely oblivious to how much it sounded like "I'm above you". Or you're completely aware and you need a good slap upside the head anyway.

As I said in my last post, I came in civilly, self-deprecating and all in all, seemingly pretty humble. You say I'm heavily prone to feeling persecuted in any conversation whatsoever, and maybe that is true, I do feel that way a lot of the time, but maybe you just haven't noticed how things are said to me. You can't just say "no no you just misunderstand and felt like you were being insulted" and clearly admit to ****ing doing it.

Also dammit Luke, I deserve this, I know. You told me to stop. You begged me to stop.
But to address the misunderstanding with you, it isn't about travel. It's about us all being able to share in growth and representing ourselves outwards. Why would I want our scene to piddle to just what foreign scenes say or do? We've never been like that. I already feel our scene is behind but I don't think we have any reason whatsoever to be.

@ Luco , that's why I did say "traditional". It isn't really our fault we're a western nation in the middle of the ocean far far away from all society and how that's impacted us culturally over 200 years, but like omg we JUST GOT NETFLIX. We're almost there, team.

I didn't make out anything. I simply asked what the point of saying that was, it was phrased as a question because it WAS a question. You claim I misunderstand a lot of things, yet here you are admittedly condescending because you couldn't understand that (or anything I said if your last post is anything to go by). It READ as you being condescending (so I asked what it was if it wasn't that) "hurr durr I'm interconnected and you're not I'm so much better than you and my opinion is more valid!!!" (See two can play at the deliberately misconstrued quotes game)

I didn't MISUNDERSTAND YOU, I DIDN'T undestand you. And then I asked about it, saying "if this isn't what you're saying, what are you saying?" I literally asked you to correct me I'm wrong, not sure how that begs you to be a ****.

As I just stated, trying to be interconnected isn't egotistical, hell I never used that word at all. Saying your connection with others scenes is superior to our little "seclusion complex" is insulting and snobby. Everything you just said was completely oblivious to how much it sounded like "I'm above you". Or you're completely aware and you need a good slap upside the head anyway.

As I said in my last post, I came in civilly, self-deprecating and all in all, seemingly pretty humble. You say I'm heavily prone to feeling persecuted in any conversation whatsoever, and maybe that is true, I do feel that way a lot of the time, but maybe you just haven't noticed how things are said to me. You can't just say "no no you just misunderstand and felt like you were being insulted" and clearly admit to ****ing doing it.


Suck a ****. You can't put the blame on me for "feeling insulted" when that's what you did.

 

[Gords]

States that run customs:

Curious to know how you plan on dealing with this? Or will you just accept it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waR9js3dabI

not even an issue if you ask me. if you manage to pull this off in a match you deserve the KO.
nowhere near as easy as ICs Chain grabs in previous games.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I'd really like to know what percentage of people actually went a sucked a **** after being told to suck a ****

why cant we all just get along and come play no-customs in canberra on may 17th

beacuse the tourneys arent being run by me thats why


Luco if you do go to the US one day, your experiance will probably follow mine.
Show up, get ****ing bodied, have some awesome player house you, take you under his wing and give you super training, then you improve enough to compete on a decent level.
You're going to get rekt no matter what at first, but after playing against people there for a bit your skill will come up, you'll get used to the envrionment, and then you might do alright.
In light of that, what does it matter what ruleset we use since no matter what you do, you'll have a transition period

IYou can't put the blame on me for "feeling insulted" when that's what you did.

well... actually you can.
At the end of the day, being offended is a choice that you make, whether its conscious or not. Sometimes it can be hard if the other person is insulting you, but you have the choice to ignore it and rise above it. If I were insulted that you wore a hat indoors, I'm the one choosing to be offended at that, you didn't choose for me. I can elborate further if you'd like.


Anyways, I think we can all agree that if there were a PR of arguing and comebacks, shaya wouldnt be on it. (Sorry buddy)

 

[swordsaint]

You're right. He can do that.

Doesn't make it not stupid.

You should come body me on Smash 4 online since you seem to be playing that for some reason. I want good practice.

 

[Pazx]

beacuse the tourneys arent being run by me thats why

This is very OT but I ran our last tourney myself and I was disappointed not to see you there. I know it seems like criticism of the Canberra smash scene is mostly falling on deaf ears but Tin couldn't make it out last week so I would have actually been able to take any suggestions on board.

 

[Jamwa]

You're right. He can do that.

Doesn't make it not stupid.

nah dude call the cops thats illegal

 

[Shaya]

You still didn't get the part where I thought you were being a patronising "****" first.
Blameless as ever scoot. I am truly glad you are interested in rejoining the scene though, that much was sincere.

 

[luke_atyeo]

This is very OT but I ran our last tourney myself and I was disappointed not to see you there. I know it seems like criticism of the Canberra smash scene is mostly falling on deaf ears but Tin couldn't make it out last week so I would have actually been able to take any suggestions on board.

jokes are hard

I wasnt there because I had a first aid refresher course.

if you want some suggestions though, dont run 8 player pools, that takes ****ing forever no wonder you guys were there for so long.
you could have doubled the pools with 1 going through, you could have made it 6 pools with 12 players giving the top 4 a bye each.
4 or 5 sets a player is a good number for pools generally, 7 or 8 is not.

 

[swordsaint]

You still didn't get the part where I thought you were being a patronising "****" first.
Blameless as ever scoot. I am truly glad you are interested in rejoining the scene though, that much was sincere.

Well I wasn't, I'm sorry about the confusion, I could have phrased that better so as to leave no confusion about the intention. Clearly we both thought the other started it, so we shall end this based purely on mutual misunderstanding.

But your second part is funny considering you've done/are doing the same thing..

 

[Shaya]

I'm an anxious person.
Don't worry, I regret everything I ever do.

 

[swordsaint]

I'm an anxious person.
Don't worry, I regret everything I ever do.

I also regret everything you do.

Jokes aside. Sorry for the attacks buddy, shouldn't have gone in on you even if I felt offended.

 

[Attila_]

I think pika can definitely pressure into footstool setups to start the infinite.

His aerial pressure game is insane; predict an airdodge well and footstool to start.

Esam will probably do something similar.

(For the record, I think heavy skull bash is incredibly dumb also)

 

[Luco]

Well, okay, give it some time and I guess we'll see how many Pikachu mains incorporate it into their gameplay. I think the thunder wave lock will probably be used more commonly than the meteor-attack infinite though.

 

[Pazx]

Let's talk Duck Hunt again.

@ Attila_ which character are you dair camping with and which other characters can abuse the tree in a similar fashion outside of the vs Little Mac/Ganon matchup?

 

[Gords]

I think pika can definitely pressure into footstool setups to start the infinite.

His aerial pressure game is insane; predict an airdodge well and footstool to start.

Esam will probably do something similar.

(For the record, I think heavy skull bash is incredibly dumb also)

i will believe it when i see it,
and that wont be at evo since i believe that custom combination is not on a custom project set

 

[Attila_]

Let's talk Duck Hunt again.

@ Attila_ which character are you dair camping with and which other characters can abuse the tree in a similar fashion outside of the vs Little Mac/Ganon matchup?

I used pit, that's because I main him. He is not even the best at camping on DH. imo megaman is probably the best at it, but any character that is fast and has good aerial movement can be super annoying on that stage.

Little mac/ganon lose the game if they lose the percent lead at any point. Otherwise, slower characters, particularly those without good vertical air options, can have a really hard time.

You should try these things out yourself; you have to play with the intention to time your opponent out, even if that isnt the game plan. People play too 'fair' at this point of the meta.

i will believe it when i see it,
and that wont be at evo since i believe that custom combination is not on a custom project set

Really? Someone messed up there.

I doubt customs will leave past evo, so there's a good chance you'll never see it then.

Although footstool setups are legit, and pikas should be using them to get fsmashes. MKs are already doing this.

 

[M]

The unfavourable trade-off is that Meteor Quick Attack, is terrible as a recovery and a poor movement option in general. Taking MQA over the regular Quick Attack means you've basically committed to trying to get the infinite, and are sacrificing a lot of what Pikachu normally has to offer. (which is also cheesy as ****, seriously who likes this character?)

And Duck Hunt is awful. Replace with Gamer pls.

 

[M]

ignore this post, accident

 

[Gords]

Really? Someone messed up there.

I doubt customs will leave past evo, so there's a good chance you'll never see it then.

Although footstool setups are legit, and pikas should be using them to get fsmashes. MKs are already doing this.

Messed what up exactly?
I agree that footstool setups are doable but again, for similar reasons that M mentioned, i will believe it will be a problem when I start seeing players actually selecting this custom combination, doing the infinite and making it a problem (Which is going to be hard because wobbling is arguably the a better infinite and wobbling is still legal at most tournaments). This cant happen at EVO btw since no-one can even select this move pair. the most we may see is either a low percent thunderwave lock or a mid - high percent MQA lock. which other characters have similar locks even with default movesets

 

[Jamwa]

correct me if im wrong (i was)
with 4 specials and 3 choices for each, doesnt that make 64 combinations?
why do customs only allow 8 combinations or w/e the presets are? doesn't that seem counter-intuitive?

 

[Shaya]

It's 81 combinations (1111 being default/not needing a 'slot'); 3^4 rather than 4^3.
And have you even used customs in Smash 4 before? Lol, anyway you can only have 10 per character.

It is definitely an issue with using custom sets but it is probably the only feasible solution to the logistics problems.

 

[M]

correct me if im wrong
with 4 specials and 3 choices for each, doesnt that make 64 combinations?
why do customs only allow 8 combinations or w/e the presets are? doesn't that seem counter-intuitive?

Yes, I believe this is EVO's way of dodging logistical problems, although makes you wonder why they are running customs in the first place. The point of custom moves was to increase viability of lesser able character and assist in balance, but it was also supposed to allow people to tailor a characters moves to fit their playstyle. Can't do that with 8 sets per character alone. It's a really half assed idea that defeats the purpose of having them. :/

 

[Jamwa]

It's 81 combinations (1111 being default/not needing a 'slot'); 3^4 rather than 4^3.
And have you even used customs in Smash 4 before? Lol, anyway you can only have 10 per character.

It is definitely an issue with using custom sets but it is probably the only feasible solution to the logistics problems.

sorry i forgot how to do maths
i haven't used customs ever, but no1 said anything about this and i was just confused
is it not possible to modify customs via the wii u?

 

[Gords]

It is, but your still only allowed 10 slots (99 slots for Mii fighters) to edit, it also requires that the console has those customs you want unlocked already. However the WiiU does allow you to import a set from a 3DS that has customs that the console doesn't have unlocked yet and it's the reason why the custom move set project exists. This means that for almost all players the console will have the set they want to use without needing to unlock customs on all consoles. Custom tournaments then allow players that use other sets to import their sets from a 3DS and most tournaments have the parent 3DS available to produce those sets if necessary. EVO is the exception though since they do not allow data transfer to any of their setups during the event so therefore only the 10 custom moveset project sets (49 for Miis) will be available.

 

[Jamwa]

ignore this misread

 

[luke_atyeo]

Messed what up exactly?

he meant somebody messed up by not having those 2 pikachu customs in the same set, cmon buddy that was super obvious.

 

[Gords]

he meant somebody messed up by not having those 2 pikachu customs in the same set, cmon buddy that was super obvious.

aaaarrgh, look what this thread does to people

 

[Attila_]

http://gfycat.com/AllImaginaryGrouse
Feels good to be right.

The setup is bloody easy too.

 

[Shaya]

At what point did you ever consider yourself not right?

At the least, this is ESAM of all people against lower leveled players (although he pulled something on Denti, arguably he's in a similar boat). I'm not aware of many/any instances of him getting this against his main competitors back in Florida.

I don't think we ever thought we wouldn't be seeing Heavy Skull Bash comboing from thunder wave and wrecking kids though. Or at least, I didn't.

 

[M]

That's going to be one comically large nail in the coffin if ESAM pulls that at EVO.

 

[Lex__]

Assuming dreamland is included free in this next update, is there any reason why it wouldn't be a legal stage/starter immediatly?

It looks smaller (blastzone wise) to melee's one. I have included the video below.

Wont be used at evo because of license issues, so don't include that as a reason why we cant use it please.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Leisha]

We'll be running Kirby 64 at Melbourne anyway. Can't see it not being legal.

 

[Attila_]

Miiverse looks pretty legal as well.

 

[Pazx]

Miiverse needs something to differentiate it from BF other than the underside of the stage if we want to consider it a separate legal stage, otherwise I can see it getting the Omega treatment.

 

[Lex__]

Miiverse needs something to differentiate it from BF other than the underside of the stage if we want to consider it a separate legal stage, otherwise I can see it getting the Omega treatment.

Its worth seeing its blastzones first, I don't think I have seen its size vs battlefield yet either.

 

[Attila_]

Obviously speculation, but it appears larger than bf with less platform coverage. Similar to comparing YI to BF in melee (but bf is more like miiverse)

If that made sense lol