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At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

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bob-e

Smash Journeyman
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Here's some feedback on Falco, along with a few random things that I noted, from a local GSH2 tournament a couple days ago. I know it's kind of late to be giving feedback on this set, and that a lot of what I'll mention was probably present in GSH1, but I never really got a chance to play much of GSH1 because of exams and all.

Falco stuff:
-Shine is just as bad in game as it sounds on paper; I look forward to trying Thunderhorse's version.
-The added frame to his phantasm so he doesn't teleport as far between the first and second frame of movement is nice, but the hit box change makes it downright laughable. It went from being an incredibly predictable recovery which most characters had a way to beat with careful spacing and timing, to an incredibly predictable recovery that just about everyone can stop by throwing out any attack with a hit box lasting more than a few frames.
-Loss of auto snap didn't bother me, since any deaths from it were because I missed a cancel, instead of just getting ****ed over because I didn't have a good option.
-I can understand the range nerf, but why was cool down on jab increased? It already comboed into nothing.
-Will there ever even be an attempt to make fair useful?

Other random things:
-During doubles, a few matches randomly wouldn't save. There was no icon at the result screen, and pressing z did nothing.

-Falcon is fine. Just because he lost his auto combos into knee, doesn't mean he needs buffs. It's still a **** strong kill move, and more reasonable to land than what much of the remaining cast has considering how hard it hits.

-Does Bowser really need to do 20% if he lands a direct hit with up b? Almost all of his attacks hit so hard that he can start looking for kills at 80%, and getting there from only 4 up bs OOS just seems a little too quick.

-If Yoshi's egg will renew his second jump, does his heavy armor need to be so strong? It's really annoying to do everything right with an attack to shut out his approach, only to see him heavy armor through it, then DJC a nair into my face.
 

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
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Wrong. Falco's jab comboed into grab before (at least, the first two hits; I'm not sure whether you mean the rapidjabs or not)


1.) probably a problem with your GCT.

2.) ok

3.) Bowser's up b is extremely punishable on block or whiff....so IMO I think it's kinda balanced

4.) the renewing doesn't really help at all, since you lose so much momentum and height with the eggroll-cancelling.
 

Revven

FrankerZ
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bob-e said:
-During doubles, a few matches randomly wouldn't save. There was no icon at the result screen, and pressing z did nothing.
This is why I was never okay with using the "shows Z on the save screen" version of the longer replays code because apparently it doesn't work too well at all in matches in general. Such instances are whether or not it is Doubles/FFA or the match is simply just too long. If it bothers you, switch the code out for the one that doesn't show the icon, which allows you to save anything of any time or type, unfortunately, that doesn't mean the replay will come out okay anyway (depends on the length).

It's basically the lesser of two evils that you have to choose between. And I thought this problem was pretty well known between the three liner replay code (the one that shows the Z icon) and the one liner.

*sigh*
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Is there a reason why the GSH2 Updater gives strange results? Watch this video, I downloaded GSH2, played with Ness, saw that PK Flash had been buffed to ****, then made a video showing application. Posted it on Ness boards, they were all like; that's not really GSH2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hXk4odTtgo

This is GSH2. The Ness.pac is correct, some people think it's my GCT that's making PK Flash so sped up. But apparently other people have other strange results. Thoughts?
 

SymphonicSage12

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nope...no strange results for me. What computer system do you use? And are you sure you're using the right updater?

This may make me sound like a ***** to you, but I'm serious, it's a possibility. I don't mean to be offensive at all.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
*sigh* Yes.

To update I use a Virtual Windows XP Machine on my Macbook so I can open the executable. Everything else is correct. I'm using the right updater.
 

Dan_X

Smash Lord
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Bob-e Falco's Fair is actually really good--- if you know how to use it. You can combo w/ it (DI dependent of course) and it can bring the enemy to the ground. Fair is the answer to many matchups, for one, it makes floating Peachs look like fools. It's purpose is attacking someone who's already in the air, or someone who has just jumped. If you use it while the enemy is standing then you'll be screwed over by the end lag.

Please do NOT touch the fair.

I have videos demonstrating what I'm talking about... They are from GSH2 though. Also.. I don't have the links handy ATM.
 

SymphonicSage12

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DeloreTed...I'm not sure how that program or w/e works...but are you sure that's not the problem?


and if you have a txt version of your gct, mind sending it to me?
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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And then, there's also my problem with the momentum codes still...
I'm not sure why this is screwed up for me either.
 

The Cape

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Not to mention how Falco puts his body during fair. It makes his hurtbox very small and extends the hitbox out the front.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
DeloreTed...I'm not sure how that program or w/e works...but are you sure that's not the problem?


and if you have a txt version of your gct, mind sending it to me?
Well a virtual machine is simply a computer within a computer. You can minimize the window. I don't really like BootCamp so I just open Windows XP within OSX. It works fine, and it's a legitimate copy of XP.

Plus, I'm not too sure how this would affect my GCT. It's literally only PK Flash that is incongruous.
 

SymphonicSage12

Smash Master
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hm.....maybe it's just a line of code that continues to be screwed up when you download the gct....

maybe the animation engine?
 

Plum

Has never eaten a plum.
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Wrong. Falco's jab comboed into grab before (at least, the first two hits; I'm not sure whether you mean the rapidjabs or not)

4.) the renewing doesn't really help at all, since you lose so much momentum and height with the eggroll-cancelling.
IIRC Falco's jab has never combo'd into grab. I'm pretty sure there's some post in the Falcon thread with its frame data. It strings into grab with the failure of your opponent to react before the grab.
It did however have excellent priority, and speed making it a great CQ option.

The jump refresh is used in the same way Ganon's Down B refresh. With optimal DI you should be high in the corner after knocked back offstage from a failed recovery attempt giving you more than enough time to use the eggroll and gain back his huge second jump.
 

SymphonicSage12

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Hm....Well, you could make his superarmor on his DJ into heavy armor (or if it's already heavy armor, make it weaker)
 

Power of Slash

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Curiosity strikes me, and I appologize in advance if this has been explained in these past 70 pages(I haven't been reading, only really been playing this set)

But could I receive an explanation to the changes on Diddy's Nanners? Most specifically the decision to rid of the nanner lock, and in return(I'm probably wrong about this part, though I never payed attention, it was just brought to my attention) buffing the damage to 5%.

I don't really hold much of a stance on it, since either way I'm fine with it, I just really want to know.
Gonna bring this back up, since it hasn't been answered yet. Outside of the 5% thing. Sorry, I didn't touch Diddy outside of B+ so that was a mistake on my part.
 

The Cape

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The damage change actually came out with Brawl+ as a start, its odd, but thats just how it is. Most likely due to the no decay system.

As for the removal of the naner lock it only does not slip you while you are already slipped. This removes across the stage locks and wall locks that you cannot escape. The way that the change has been implemented in this way allows Diddy to hit you and then hit you again while standing with good timing.

This allows Diddy to still lock his opponents with good timing, but also give the opponents a chance to escape. With the additions of hitstun and such Diddy has seen a good deal of unintentional buffs to his game and the removal of the naner lock was a good balancing tool as well as being another step closer to allowing stages like Corneria and Onett being legal in tournament (and casual) play.
 

swordgard

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Hey, I found no other thread to ask this and did not want to start yet another thread. Are we allowed to actually question teh WBR integrity in a thread if its a valid complaint?
 

Dantarion

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swordgard, criticism of the WBR is a good thing, if all of the people out there just accepted whatever we put out then nothing would really get done.
 

RiteToRmnSilent

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Because he was sliding, I have to ask you, did the opponent go straight down or was it at an angle? If it was at a low angle, I'm guessing what happened is what typically happens when you slide towards the edge and are directly on it: a grab break occurs and they are in their "get out of grab" animation. If it was downward, I don't know the conundrum because the Dthrow is supposed to send at a 120º angle (which is really high and backwards) so it shouldn't be spiking people, in which case, makes me believe what I said first to be the correct scenario in which case existed before Brawl+ was even given birth to (in other words, already occurs in vBrawl).
No it was almost straight down, and looking at the replay the throw definitly was normal in everyway except for the way it sent him. It wasn't a grab break, which is what I thought at first until I checked the replay. So I really don't know what would cause that. It never happened to me until this build, but maybe it's so rare that I never noticed it in other builds. Or maybe it's a new occurence? I really have no idea.
 

Shadic

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Actually I am just asking, as you might have missed a thread that was valid but kinda disappeared amist the shadows.
I saw the thread. And I agree that it was legitimate, discussing things that needed to be said. (Like a topic that TSON had made in the past)
 

swordgard

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I saw the thread. And I agree that it was legitimate, discussing things that needed to be said. (Like a topic that TSON had made in the past)

Well where is the problem then? Should things like this be discussed or is it forbidden to discuss the WBR authority/integrity?
 

Veril

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Well where is the problem then? Should things like this be discussed or is it forbidden to discuss the WBR authority/integrity?
Stop wasting our time with this bulls***. People are only listening to your trolling because of a colored name. Gtfo.

See, if I actually were in the wbr I wouldn't have been able to say that. "basks in the freedom"


On a topic that matters:
I did a bunch of testing with the gsh tester set and I'll start posting results sometime tomorrow (new girlfriend Johns). If you are willing to post any frame data from your GSH2 .pacs... if its something that's changed I'll correct the values, I just don't have access to PSA atm (I'll be doing things that require manual testing).

What I've been looking at:
Aerial frame data analysis: phase I, pre-hitstun testing (which is a huge b*** tbh). Manually confirm effects of changes. Find all SHFF airtimes.
-first hit frame
-ALR, autocancel and IASA
-shieldstun and shld
--calculated potential adv on block
--can it be SHFFl'd
--can it be SH autocanceled
--optimal input map
 

Alphatron

Smash Champion
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Veril, I've been meaning to ask, how exactly do you do your testing? I believe I've reaqd somewhere before that it isn't done via PSA and if I don't need reliable cpu acess(posting from the wii/psp 95% of the time) then I'd be willing to help out. I have the time and mathematical stuff should be easy via calculator.


Also, why is kupo STILL bashing brawl+? Is it because there's no manual L-cancel?
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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Is there someone here who can explain why the momentum capture and data won't work for me? I've tried several different fixes and so far nothing has worked.
 

goodoldganon

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Stop wasting our time with this bulls***. People are only listening to your trolling because of a colored name. Gtfo.

See, if I actually were in the wbr I wouldn't have been able to say that. "basks in the freedom"
Can I troll with my colored name? Or does no one respect this color anymore :(
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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wouldnt that mean u can troll with it?

why the sadface

it would compliment my butterfree and nice boat quite nicely :012:

just think about it!

just saying~
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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did you do the rob side-b test
Should that shoot him far? I'm curious because I've usually been able to do that on previous versions of B+. My standard test is executing an aerial with Zero after performing either a dash jump or air dash or otherwise just jumping around with Falcon.
 

b2j135

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Can someone send/get me Kupo`s latest Brawl+ Camera Beta? I can`t seem to find it.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Can someone send/get me Kupo`s latest Brawl+ Camera Beta? I can`t seem to find it.
Code:
Camera [12]
48000000 80b8a428
De000000 80008180
58010000 00000078
De000000 80008180
16000010 00000030
42a60000 447a0000
20000000 3d4ccccd
00000000 00000000
00000000 Bdb2b8c2
3f060a92 3F99999A
3f800000 3f800000
E0000000 80008000
dynamic 1.2
Angled 20000000

Camera bubble modifier [12]
C27BC6D0 00000009
9421FF80 BC410008
7C4802A6 48000005
7C8802A6 7C4803A6
C2650004 C2440040
EE7304B2 D2630018
C2650008 C2440044
EE7304B2 D263001C
B8410008 38210080
60000000 00000000
66200001 00000000
3FECCCCD 3F800000
I prefer the Lucas dickslap test.
tell me more
 

GP&B

Ike 'n' Ike
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R.O.B. isn't moving uber far like he has in previous versions. I've even tried mashing the B button with that. I just don't know what's wrong.
 
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