At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[VietGeek]

hey guise remember this code?

Spoiler

Camera properties [spunit262; phantom wings]

48000000 80b8a428
De000000 80008180
58010000 00000078
De000000 80008180
16000010 00000030
42a60000 447a0000
3d4ccccd 3d4ccccd
00000000 00000000
00000000 Bdb2b8c2
3f060a92 3f800000
3f800000 3f800000
E0000000 80008000

Zoom In Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to zoom in.
Zoom Out Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to zoom out.
Y Angle Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to angle itself on the Y axis.
X Angle Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to angle itself on the X axis.
X Offset: Offsets both the camera and death boundaries along the X axis.
Y Offset: Offsets both the camera and death boundaries along the Y axis.
Unknown:
Camera Base Y Coord: Sets the base Y coordinate for the camera.
Aspect Ratio: Adjusts the aspect ratio for the field of vision.
Camera Move Speed: Sets the speed in which the camera is allowed to move at.
Display Restriction: Sets the minimum amount of the battle that must be displayed at all times.
Unknown

remember how shanus said you code edit character attributes to emulate such a code without its glitches?

remember how camelot had preliminary values for such a task?

probably not right?

well depending on how many ppl care about such a thing, you guys can rally support and make it look like u guise give a ****

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmzztotjw2u

test it w/ ur favorite characters, give feedback, etc.

also the pokemon trainer pokes weren't added because:

1) they're too cool for psamod (file grows too huge)
2) they're too cool for hex editor (viet even added 80 hex =< )

so ya im either doing it wrong or pokemon are teh evilz (keep on hanging at battle or on CSS)

also there's a lazyass changelist in case someone more norcal pro wants to do something amazing

 

[MK26]

hey guise remember this code?

Spoiler

Camera properties [spunit262; phantom wings]

48000000 80b8a428
De000000 80008180
58010000 00000078
De000000 80008180
16000010 00000030
42a60000 447a0000
3d4ccccd 3d4ccccd
00000000 00000000
00000000 Bdb2b8c2
3f060a92 3f800000
3f800000 3f800000
E0000000 80008000

Zoom In Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to zoom in.
Zoom Out Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to zoom out.
Y Angle Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to angle itself on the Y axis.
X Angle Restriction: Limits how far the camera is allowed to angle itself on the X axis.
X Offset: Offsets both the camera and death boundaries along the X axis.
Y Offset: Offsets both the camera and death boundaries along the Y axis.
Unknown:
Camera Base Y Coord: Sets the base Y coordinate for the camera.
Aspect Ratio: Adjusts the aspect ratio for the field of vision.
Camera Move Speed: Sets the speed in which the camera is allowed to move at.
Display Restriction: Sets the minimum amount of the battle that must be displayed at all times.
Unknown

remember how shanus said you code edit character attributes to emulate such a code without its glitches?

remember how camelot had preliminary values for such a task?

probably not right?

well depending on how many ppl care about such a thing, you guys can rally support and make it look like u guise give a ****

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmzztotjw2u

test it w/ ur favorite characters, give feedback, etc.

also the pokemon trainer pokes weren't added because:

1) they're too cool for psamod (file grows too huge)
2) they're too cool for hex editor (viet even added 80 hex =< )

so ya im either doing it wrong or pokemon are teh evilz (keep on hanging at battle or on CSS)

also there's a lazyass changelist in case someone more norcal pro wants to do something amazing

i remember that code!

...!

too cool for hex editor?

ur doin it wrong

if its an attribute, you find the offset and edit that directly

viet still has much to learn

 

[VietGeek]

i edited it in hex editor then popped it in PSAMod to see if the values I wanted showed up.

They did.

happily viet butterfreed himself to his revolution and tested

game locked but imperial code still plays

**** ya

 

[MK26]

...

have you been registered as clinically insane yet?

you should look into that

but if you did that and it doesnt work, i dont know

 

[VietGeek]

no i'm just playing brawl plus delirium slaughter

next expansion pack will be called Verdun Requiem or something

and ya pokez r too elite for viet obv

 

[CT Chia]

I don't even know why people refer to the WBR anymore considering it doesn't do much with this set.

 

[cobaltblue]

Since my sarcasm earlier did not get any response I'll ask straight up.

Is there any reason Sonic's Homing attack remains untouched? Low priority, Horrid homing and massive lag it has no use at all.

However I am impressed with everything else about the guy in GH2 but the neutral B is so slow and useless it seems out of place.

If you refer to the sonic+ character thread you can dig out and find some of the reasons. However as I recall sonic had about two choices with the HA: keep it as is or change it into a fixed trajectory that would attack at about a 45 degree angle going downward. I argued to keep the HA as it was in 5.0 and this build due to the fact the HA had these pros:

Pros:
-Has good knock back
-Can be jump canceled out of on successful hit
-Stops airel momentum on use
-Good for mix ups when used smart.
-Can be used to recover
-Can be used to edgeguard or gimp when you read an opponent correctly
-Safe if you hit the opponent's shield
-Can actually be combed into

Cons
-Will take a beating on miss
-Will take an even bigger beating if you hit the ground
-Can be manipulated into not homing if the opponent enters invincibility frames
-Hard to hit at point blank ranges
-Low priority

Comparing the pros to cons it makes sense that the move not to have high priority as that would make it a use and forget move. The homing could have been better but can worked into your game with practice and if you use the move springily. The lag at the end of it keeps it from being spammable on miss. However even that is countered by the fact you'll usually be safe if you bounce off the opponents shield or can jump right out of it on successful hit. Missing in mid air still sucks but that usually happens when you telegraph the move.

Its not the best move in sonic's tool set, but compared to the other characters who have special situation moves (falcon/D3/Ganon/etc) its still pretty **** useful.

 

[GP&B]

EDIT: and gamedominator, try the premade gct

I got to try it today and I still don't understand why this isn't working. I have downloaded all the .pac's and put them in (minus common5.pac, as I was told that caused crashes), and I've tried the codes a hundred times already. It's bothering me that the momentum capture hasn't been operating at all.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

what size is your sd card?

 

[GP&B]

1GB, and I've had consistent results before (although I've heard that the present process is different and may have different effects).

 

[Perfect Chaos]

Cons
-Will take an even bigger beating if you hit the ground.

Um...what?! Hitting the ground refreshes your double jump and still allows you to cancel it, so what are you talking about?

 

[cobaltblue]

Um...what?! Hitting the ground refreshes your double jump and still allows you to cancel it, so what are you talking about?

I'm talking about on miss. At least for me, all the matches I've played I get punished more for a wiffed HA that hits the ground than a wiffed HA in mid air. Sure you get the jumps back but because of the fact you're so close to the opponent already the character may be able to cut off your escape with one of their moves or a short hop attack before you get out of the lag animation.

Still, if I'm wrong on the recovery speed than disregard that con then. I honestly hit the opponent more times than not during a match with the move than I miss so I could easily be remembering it incorrectly.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Homing Attack: If you hit the ground while still a ball, you rebound and can even cancel out of it with a jump. However, if you have already gotten out of the ball just before landing, you will do the "SpecialNLanding" animation which induces tons of lag and leaves you open for surprise buttsecks.

I think that's what he's talking about. :3

 

[Maximoff]

Hey, everyone. I've been playing Brawl since it came out and even though I really enjoyed it, I hated the fact that is was SO unbalanced. I've been playing Brawl+ since Christmas, and I think you guys are doing and AMAZING job.

I like most "human" characters in the game, and they feel so much better to play with than in vBrawl. My favorite characters are Peach, Zelda, Sheik, and Snake.

- Peach is SWEET!!! Everything seems to do what it is supposed to do, except her DSmash... I like the fact that its damage was raised to 7%, and that it has a little more KB, but it still feels crappy. It'd be so much better if all 4 hits could connect unless the opponent SDI's out of it. Maybe they could hit for 3, 3, 3, and 7 or 6 for a total of 16% or 15%... IDK. I just think that it would feel better it all hits could connect. Other than that, I love what you've done with her.

- Zelda/Sheik is perfect IMO. They complement each other better and if you use both (which I think every Sheik or Zelda mainer should do, anyways) you have a pretty well rounded character.

- Snake is still good. I like the fact that some of his hitboxes have been fixed... No one can say that he's broken or complain after losing to him. I love the fact that his FAir is interruptable, too.

Again, good job. And keep it up!!! I'll make sure my friends start playing Brawl+ in order to get Tournaments going on pretty soon!

Cheers!

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Her down smash is designed the way it is because it is. All the hits are designed to be hard to SDI; the reason it's near impossible to get all the hits to connect, even at 0%, is because of the raised BKB of the move.

It's designed to be a GTFO move, not a killer or a damage racker.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Random question. Are we all pretty much OK with Dorf's Up-A staying as the "look at my crotch kick" we all know and love. Dorf is just fine without any tweaks to it, don't get me wrong, but its by far one of the least used A button moves in the game. Though it can be used effectively as an edge guarding tool at points, it is very quickly falling out of disuse. Also, one missed input makes you stuck in "look at my crotch mode" which kind of sucks.

I've been thinking about possible re-works, buuut the issue is I can't think of anything that wont just make it a derivation of Falcons Up-A axe kick. The more I think about it, the more this might just end up being an ugly baby move. Thoughts/opinions on the matter?

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Um yeah from what I can tell Ganon doesn't need anymore buffs. It seems kind of useless to improve that move since so many other of his moves are useful. Besides that move really isn't bad. I play a few Ganon players and they really don't use it that much either, but when they do use it they use it right and it almost always connects and hits me. So, my opinion is, it would be kind of unnecessary to fix up the move. I do see your point though, but a lot of characters have a move like that. An example would be dsmash on Marth, have fun getting owned if it doesn't connect.

 

[Daakun]

I use it mostly as a taunt. >_>

 

[jalued]

- Peach is SWEET!!! Everything seems to do what it is supposed to do, except her DSmash... I like the fact that its damage was raised to 7%, and that it has a little more KB, but it still feels crappy. It'd be so much better if all 4 hits could connect unless the opponent SDI's out of it. Maybe they could hit for 3, 3, 3, and 7 or 6 for a total of 16% or 15%... IDK. I just think that it would feel better it all hits could connect. Other than that, I love what you've done with her.


Cheers!

try her dsmash as en edgeguard its horrifically good against fox/faclo

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Fox or Falco: FIIIIIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAHH-

(interrupts with Peach down smash or Jiggz dair)


repeat and you're good

 

[Daakun]

Doesn't it also make for a pretty decent stage spike?

 

[jalued]

Doesn't it also make for a pretty decent stage spike?

yep, very decent. sheiks chain is stupider though...

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Don't get me wrong Ganon certainly doesn't need anymore buffs. In fact many characters don't need anymore buffs. I just dislike the idea of any character having an ugly baby move. I mean hell, even sheik's chain has use now.

 

[Alphatron]

The only move I'd say has close to no use would be Yoshi's nuetral B. There's something wrong with a setup move that grants your opponent 40% damage reduction and invincibility frames.

But even that probably has its own situational uses.

 

[VietGeek]

i guess no one cares about the camera stuff eh?

 

[goodoldganon]

Ganondorf's u-tilt is so bad and probably top 3 worst moves in the game. I'd honestly rather not have an u-tilt at all then his current one. Though it rarely happens, a mispress happens and I do an u-tilt it's a free 30-40% or stock. I don't think any move is THAT bad.

(I'm not asking for a buff, since he is fantastic. I'd actually honestly just rather not have an u-tilt)

 

[Marufuji Ryo]

i guess no one cares about the camera stuff eh?

I tried it..with Kirby and Ike and it just didn't feel right for me, it will probably take some getting used to.

I have so far tried it on final destination and smashville.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey just wondering did u guys ever fix zelda's grab frames to make her grab game not suck? a non tether grab should never be 12 frames

 

[VietGeek]

Did you try it with anyone else? I could adjust any ones that are odd (except for Pokemon Trainer characters).

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Zelda's back throw has been greatly increased in KB growth.

And who cares if her grab startup is 12 frames? She has one of the quickest endlags....so the punishability of the move balances out...

 

[CloneHat]

Even if it was exactly the same length as a normal grab animation, the hitbox would still come out a lot slower.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Zelda's back throw has been greatly increased in KB growth.

And who cares if her grab startup is 12 frames? She has one of the quickest endlags....so the punishability of the move balances out...

its great that her back throw has more KB growth but it means very little if u can almost never land a garb. b/c of how slow her grab comes out she almost completely loses the grab aspect of her game which i feel she needs to be balanced. i am not saying make it a 6 frame grab like some characters have a 8 to 10 frame grab would be fine and much better but 12 is just to slow imo.

 

[Marufuji Ryo]

Did you try it with anyone else? I could adjust any ones that are odd (except for Pokemon Trainer characters).

I tried Fox and Falco, they seemed fine to me.

 

[GP&B]

I got to try it today and I still don't understand why this isn't working. I have downloaded all the .pac's and put them in (minus common5.pac, as I was told that caused crashes), and I've tried the codes a hundred times already. It's bothering me that the momentum capture hasn't been operating at all.

1GB, and I've had consistent results before (although I've heard that the present process is different and may have different effects).

Reposting. There's got to be someone who is having the same problem... :\

 

[CountKaiser]

As for camera edits on Characters

Kirby is awful, unfortunately. Whenever the opponent is above Kirby, the Camera shifts upwards in a way that Kirby is at the very bottom of the frame of view, making it awkward to know where Kirby himself is.

In general, the camera seems more zoomed out, but not more dynamic, which really sets melee and brawl cameras apart.

 

[VietGeek]

The camera being zoomed out seems to mean the game can refocus on fast-moving characters a little better.

And while the camera is quite as dynamic as Melee, it seems awfully close due to how it refocuses (because of the above).

It's funny that I play more Melee than Brawl+ yet slowly am unable to see major differences now (refocus speed is obv but not extremely now).

And yeah, I don't play Kirby. Other shorties might be affected too. If there are any other characters suffering (aside from Kirby and Ike and PT) please do tell.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I honestly don't see the problem with zelda's grab slowness...

 

[Valuno]

So this camera is supposed to get b+'s camera somewhat closer to melee? OMG, I will test this as soon as I can, viet2gud.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I honestly don't see the problem with zelda's grab slowness...

the next slowest non tether grab is bowser at 9 frames. olimar has a 11 frame grab there is no reason zelda's grab should be as slow as it is. the slowness of her grab makes it dodge-able by avg human reaction time which in turn makes it to slow to be effective and so it sucks.

i will also ote that she has the 3rd largest grab out of all non tether grab characters but the two characters above her both have 6 frames grabs so her rage is no excuse.

for more grab data look here http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Grab

 

[Plum]

DDD commands you to give him a 1 frame grab with more range than Olimar's blue Pikmin!

Obey the disjointed grab!

Ahem. Now that I have my trolling out of my system:

Zelda has more than enough defensive options to make up for a slow grab. Her grab hits frame 12, double the normal speed of most non tether characters, yeah that's bad. But look at what Zelda has, and what I feel more than makes up for it. She's a defensive tank, she has a very hard to punish recovery, early kill options, and above all the power to switch into Sheik who's an offensive powerhouse. Her other defensive options and matchup resistance by switching to a high pressure/offensive character mid match is nothing to look at lightly.