At long last, Presenting GSH2, a Brawl+ Nightly Test Set and Discussion Topic

[The Cape]

I sat here and read every. single. post. in this thread.

If this is true then I love you. If its a lie than I hate you for leading me on.

 

[Alphatron]

At mid percents with RC1 Falcon, I was able to dair to knee. It wasn't all that hard to combo.

I have no problem with characters having kill setups(especially Falcon), but while he wasn't overpowered, his anytime cookie cutter combos were kinda silly. You didn't have to worry about when certain moves stopped comboing or started comboing, or leading into setups. Everything always did.

I seriously wish RC1 Ness didn't hog all the spotlight and discrimination. There were plenty of things in that set...

 

[GHNeko]

You can still dair to knee at mid percent's with falcon. The number of characters you can do it on has fallen, yeah, and the window is smaller, but it's still definately possible.

A lot of Dair Meteors in this set still have plenty of opportunity.

 

[goodoldganon]

Most of the RC1 stuffed was fixed with lower hitstun and NADT. A few things needed to be changed of course, but I just don't know if Falcon was one of them. I really feel the discussion about his is over unless Cape and others want to hear more. We all admit Falcon is a solid mid to low mid tier character. If we are ok with him being there and balanced then that's that. Otherwise I have said what I wanted to say about Falcon. If only I knew PSA I'd actually sit down and make a Falcon with slight tweaks.

You can still dair to knee at mid percent's with falcon. The number of characters you can do it on has fallen, yeah, and the window is smaller, but it's still definately possible.

A lot of Dair Meteors in this set still have plenty of opportunity.

D-airs at higher percentages aren't as reliable. You used to be able to Thunderstomp someone and watch them come half way down so you could F-air them.

 

[GHNeko]

Higher percents sure. But Mid percents can give somewhat consistant results if you go into detail and learn what percent range Dair > Knee works at for the roster.

 

[goodoldganon]

It was a joke about how high hitstun was before, especially on d-airs. **** was nuts. D-air to knee is totally legit, it's just super tough to setup a d-air

 

[matt4300]

Most of the RC1 stuffed was fixed with lower hitstun and NADT. A few things needed to be changed of course, but I just don't know if Falcon was one of them. I really feel the discussion about his is over unless Cape and others want to hear more. We all admit Falcon is a solid mid to low mid tier character. If we are ok with him being there and balanced then that's that. Otherwise I have said what I wanted to say about Falcon. If only I knew PSA I'd actually sit down and make a Falcon with slight tweaks.



D-airs at higher percentages aren't as reliable. You used to be able to Thunderstomp someone and watch them come half way down so you could F-air them.

Ok, I'll make a falcon pac real quick. So what all needs to be addressed?

Nair higher angle?

Knee slightly more KBG?

That it?

Edit: err wait I just need to copy RC1 nair... mabye lowerbase with more growth so it combos better at low but stops comboing later.. still killing around the same percents... Speaking of wich why is foxes utilt so ****ing gay at killing ... Its stupid fast and easy to hit with and kills around 140... thats dumb and an easy fix.

 

[kr3wman]

The problem with all of that is that those characters were able to combo with those moves long before killing percent. No matter the damage, if I wanted to staqrt a combo with Falcon, I'd nair to whatever else I wanted. With Ness, I'd use the fair. With Jiggs, I'd uair.

I've always viewed certain moves like that as a bit too good. They start comboing from near 0%. And they'll combo your opponent all the way to his/her grave. What exactly was stopping you from throwing them out whenever the hell you wanted to?

your opponent. That's the point of a fighting game.

 

[GHNeko]

It was a joke about how high hitstun was before, especially on d-airs. **** was nuts. D-air to knee is totally legit, it's just super tough to setup a d-air

That's why you get good. :3

 

[ValTroX]

If this is true then I love you. If its a lie than I hate you for leading me on.

I can't say I've read all of them, but I can say I've read about 90% of it

 

[matt4300]

Falcon pac.
http://www.mediafire.com/?n4lzadnxlxy


Raised the angle of second hit nair from 50 to 54, and lowered the base just a bit so they end up closer to you at all percents.

Raised the growth on Knee just a bit... On both reverse and front hitbubbles.

On mario/FD/no DI

Old: 96 New: 90

Small tweaks to help him out a bit ... Nothing crazy like RC1 nair.

(let me know if I should'nt post stuff like this Cape or bionic.)

 

[GP&B]

Can somebody help me out? I feel like the momentum capture code isn't working at all. Some noticeable character perks aren't working either like JCing Falco's shine (if you kept that so far) and Samus' bombs exploding on contact. I downloaded the Brawl Updatifier for GSH2 and choose 'Beta' to update the code. Everything checked out fine, but it still doesn't feel right.

And yes, previous sets have been working to full capabilities before. I use a standard 1GB SD card.

 

[Revven]

I'd just like to point out that Falcon's Nair is the same as it was in RC1... you need the ability to read the opponent's DI if you want to combo with Falcon unlike someone like Donkey Kong who, regardless of DI, can always get Uair > Uair at mid percents.

 

[JCaesar]

We all admit Falcon is a solid mid to low mid tier character..

Well, if that is true and people think he needs buffs to keep up with the rest of the cast, then every character below him needs buffs too, more than he does in fact.

I for one am tired of the character favoritism that has plagued Brawl+ for a long time. Why does Falcon deserve to be high tier more than any other character? If we determine that he's unviable within the cast, then he needs buffs, but so does every other character below him. Falcon does not exist in a vacuum, and we should not buff him just because he's loved more than other characters.

In the end, someone has to be low tier, but if we do it right, then low tier = still very much viable. The only question is, are we there yet? If we are, then no one needs buffs. If we are not, then we have some work to do and it shouldn't be focused on a single character.

Individual tweaks to make a character or move work and feel better are a different matter, but they should not be done with the intent of moving the character up the tier list.

GoG this is not targeted at you or anything, just the current Falcon discussion.

 

[MyLifeIsAnRPG]

Guys... seriously. One of the goals of brawl+ is to make everyone balanced. That means that, if we have our way, every character will be about equally matched. Which means that tiers will mean less and less. Which means Falcon being mid tier is EXACTLY WHERE WE WANT HIM!

Since this is a beta test, and one of the things we are testing for is balance, characters who are mid tier are... well... done!? Characters that are too high tier get nerfed and characters that are too low tier get buffed. The only reason people want to see Falcon buffs at this point is because he is Captain Falcon. He is the chuck norris of smash. People want him to win, and people want him to win in epic ways.

I just came back from a Smash meetup up in Roxbury NJ. We played GSH2 for several hours. A good 3 people used Falcon and used him well. One of these people has followed Brawl+ from the beginning while the other two were totally new. No one, NO ONE, said Falcon needed changes. Why? Because evidence based on our matches showed Falcon winning about 50% of the time, and losing about 50% of the time. Sure there were some characters Falcon has a problem against, but there were some he was really good against. This is what game balance looks like!

In fact, when I asked the guys at the meetup if they thought anything should be changed, Falcon didn't even enter into the equation. Specifically, I only got two requests.

1) Please do something with Gannon's u-tilt. It still feels as if there is no reason to use this ever, and accidentally up tilting can mean death.

2) Is it possible to change Sheik's D-air to her Melee style D-air. instead of a downwards kick.

aaaaand that is about it ... and hell both of these are questionable at best (although, I too would like to see something done with the Ganon U-tilt though I don't think it is totally necessary).

We know you guys like Falcon, but if he is Mid tier, you should be happy with him. He is done!

 

[Alphatron]

your opponent. That's the point of a fighting game.

Using this logic, why couldn't the same apply to RC1 Ness? Or even better, 7/10 nightly Ness. Your opponent could just avoid fair and they'd be fine, right.

You most likely already know the answer to this question.

 

[MK26]

oh god 7/10 nightly ness
i should probably just erase that build off my hard drive, shouldnt i?

 

[Alphatron]

I erased it after _clinton kept out spacing Zelda fsmash and D3 ftilt with his massive fair...and edgeguarding with sped up massive PK Flash.

It was like he went through super puberty x3. RC1 Ness was a child in comparison.

 

[VietGeek]

guise if you hate mediocrity so much we need to go back to valentine's day b+

daaaaaaaassssshhhhhhhdaaaaaannnnnccccceeeeeeee daaaaaannnncccccciiiiiinnnnnggggg bbbbbbbbllllllllaaaaaaaadddddddoooooooo

babelfish butterfree translator:

 

[bob-e]

Guys... seriously. One of the goals of brawl+ is to make everyone balanced. That means that, if we have our way, every character will be about equally matched. Which means that tiers will mean less and less. Which means Falcon being mid tier is EXACTLY WHERE WE WANT HIM!

Second this.

Seeing people say Falcon is average, then go on to discuss buffs that he could use makes me wonder what people want out of Brawl+ if/when it finally reaches an end. Do we want a game that achieves balance through 39 well rounded characters, or one that's balanced by having 39 Melee Foxes? If you're looking for latter, I think that's why Brawl- in development.

 

[MK26]

we want 38 balanaced characters

and melee fox reincarnated in falcon

obv

also, lol, 'i main dancing bla- err, Marf'

 

[swordgard]

I wonder how much more senseless/illogical the WBR/cape can get really. Seems hopeless to me anyways.

 

[Yeroc]

Care to elaborate? I've heard nothing but positive things about this build from literally every person I've talked to.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I wonder how much more senseless/illogical the WBR/cape can get really. Seems hopeless to me anyways.

enjoy your tripping, jab locks and infinite chain grabs then, good sir!

 

[swordgard]

Care to elaborate? I've heard nothing but positive things about this build from literally every person I've talked to.

Really? Is this what it came down to? Public opinion? Wow, good job right there. You merely proved my point.

 

[The Cape]

It doesnt come down to public opinion per say. We dont understand a thing you are refering to as you gave no specific details. You just walk in here and basically insult the project without a word towards the specific. And if people enjoy the build then we are obviously doing a good job.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

we want 38 balanaced characters

and melee fox reincarnated in falcon

obv

And you know what the sad thing is? Sarcasm aside, when it comes to majority of the people, including those who don't let their voices be heard... (Which isn't many)

He's RIGHT. XD

 

[swordgard]

It doesnt come down to public opinion per say. We dont understand a thing you are refering to as you gave no specific details. You just walk in here and basically insult the project without a word towards the specific. And if people enjoy the build then we are obviously doing a good job.

For example, care to state to me what is the definite goal of brawl +?

 

[The Cape]

Create more options and a more rich tournament experience as well as balance the characters to a point where every character may be viable in tournament and competitive play.

 

[Sails]

For example, care to state to me what is the definite goal of brawl +?

First you are complaining that something is in error with the project (The current output of B+) with no information whatsoever. Then you are trying to coax idiocy with "What is the future" relating to the WBR itself. How about we just ignore you if you aren't willing to communicate the problem(s) you are having? It doesn't sound like you're going to just hand us answers so why should we bother playing "Solve Swordgard's Enigmatic Brain"?

 

[GP&B]

Can somebody help me out? I feel like the momentum capture code isn't working at all. Some noticeable character perks aren't working either like JCing Falco's shine (if you kept that so far) and Samus' bombs exploding on contact. I downloaded the Brawl Updatifier for GSH2 and choose 'Beta' to update the code. Everything checked out fine, but it still doesn't feel right.

And yes, previous sets have been working to full capabilities before. I use a standard 1GB SD card.

Reposting. I'd really like momentum working so I can do my short hopped Dairs from one side of the stage to the other with Falcon and be able to use Zero Link's dashing to the fullest.

 

[VietGeek]

There have been some reports that the Updatifier is glitchy.

Try using the computer updater or manually install it (which isn't that difficult at all).

 

[GP&B]

Hmm... Sadly, I don't have access to my PC as it is incredibly screwed up right now. However, CheatManager on the Wii should be able to make a .gct just fine (I'm typing this from my Mac). I can edit the text files for the SD easily. My question is whether or not I should do a manual installation of all the .pacs again. I might try the txt file again too, but I'm not entirely sure if the momentum code isn't working either due to a faulty .pac or something in the code that's refusing to work. I'll mess around and see what happens.

I'll know it works if Samus' bombs explode on contact.

 

[CloneHat]

Really? Is this what it came down to? Public opinion? Wow, good job right there. You merely proved my point.

Public opinion, filtered by reasoned arguments, filtered by the goals of Brawl+, filtered by the BRoom, more or less. So what the community is saying is very important, but even if 100 people all wanted to add jab locks again, it wouldn't happen.

 

[VietGeek]

Momentum Capture is a code, if it does not work then your .gct is faulty.

If your .gct works (then File Patch will work), but Samus' bombs still do not explode on contact, then you probably do have to manually re-install the .pac's as well.

 

[GP&B]

I figured. I'll go fix the .pac's now then. I double checked the code and it has everything.

EDIT: lolwut, for whatever reason the 'Date Modified' label said Dec. 31, 1903. I don't know what did it but I fixed it now.

EDIT: Funny, the Updatifier never added a system folder, which contains the common3 and common5 .pac's. That's only a little important .

EDIT: Ok, that's odd. It's freezing up on me whenever I go into multiplayer Brawl. I can't say it's the .gct, but I guess I'll look through the .pac's again..

I have a feeling that using my Mac creates those random .DS_STORE things. I'm not entirely sure if that would even create a problem though. I'll test again and if it freezes, I'll find a way to delete them.

 

[omegablackmage]

i would second the addition of the melee sheik nair, it was so fun to use. However at the same time this would make her even better at combo'ing and im not sure she needs that at this time. Something to look into nonetheless.

 

[GP&B]

Why is it that every time I load the CSS, it freezes? Would someone be able to point out what I screwed up?

 

[GHNeko]

Does it freeze with a beep or does music continue to play?

 

[GP&B]

I'll give you a hint: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Full freeze, that is, a beep. Now I do remember when I used to have only screen freezes but that had something to do with badly used or excessive texture replacements (FitXX0X.pac's).