Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)

[PEEF!]

ICs vs yoshi isn't that bad for yoshi. Dsmash and fair are good somehow. It's not GOOD for yoshi either. Double bair knocks you out of your double jump.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

oh jeez, double attacks probably **** the balls off of his recovery


So, questions I have:
I try to use my tilts as "stopper" moves, like to stuff out people's approaches. For example, i try to utilt foxes shnair, or ftilt falcons overb. I've had some success but it's far from consistent. Is there a better way to beat out people's approaches? I find the back hitbox of a djc nair can beat out some approaches but I find maneuvering into a place where that's possible is difficult to do within the time i have to react. Should I be wding back on approaches, shielding, or what? Please assume I can't parry, I know it's probably my best option but it's not exactly something i feel like learning.

Also, ledgeguarding. I'm mostly curious about move choice. My first instinct is to Dtilt and that's usually my move of choice vs falcon, ganon, and marth. I start to have trouble once I'm on the ledge in those MUs, and vs fox and falco. Vs fox I sometimes moonwalk to nair, but I consider that windup a little excessive, and i'm not sure how consistently it will trade/win vs falco's up-b. I sometimes fair their up-b but i almost always djc my fairs so i usually miss it because i'm in the habit of doing the djc for the fair and it makes it too hard to hit.
When falcon/ganon/marth try to recover onto the ledge, what should I do? I've been doing ledgehop dair to either spike them below the stage or to get a decent punish, but it doesn't work consistently enough for me to consider it successful. Once they land, i feel like I run out of options.

sorry for this being so disorganized, I have so many troubles when it comes to ledgeguarding my mind kind of slips from one problem to another. Let me know if anything requires clarification.

 

[Mind Trick]

You can dashgrab Ganon, you just can't be too close, yoshi's grab is funky like that.

Ic's vs Yoshi is even imo. Mobility, safe fair, dtilt ****** nana and stuff.

On characters like fox and falco who can just pressure the hell out of you you dont wanna start shielding. Best things are wavedash back/pivot fsmash (but beat by overshooting), taking it in and djcc to stuff (hard to time if they switch up early and late aerials), parry (best option against spacies nair/dair and easiest stuff to parry). Ftilt pretty good move too. Early nairs you cc to dsmash or something.

Against characters recovering low, sweetspotting you can beat on reaction mostly by just taking edge. If they're gonna make it, just charge dsmash for falcon, ganon, fsmash for fox (or perhaps not because Im working with a buffed version in PAL), and dtilt for falco. I prefer rising nair to stop illusions, or if they're going to a platform, land on it with double jump to dsmash.

Falcon and ganondorf recovering high is tough, cause you lack a good aerial kill move, but nair or upair are your best bet. If they down b just fair them out of it. Egging is mostly good, especially against spacies coming from a bit high (spacies with good DI lol).

Against marth, just dtilt and dsmash really, he sucks against that trajectory. Some marths will up b on reaction when you try to take the ledge, Yoshi's double jump can go right through it though to take the edge. If they didn't sweetspot and land on the edge you have enough time to waveland on and dsmash them back off.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Thanks a lot for the quick response. One more thing, I've seen eggs break through fox's up B occasionally. Is there a way to do this consistently?

 

[Mind Trick]

I think it has something to with the angle it impacts on fox, at least not on the front of the hitbox from the firefox. I'd say it's not worth it to try though, it's only good for disrupting him when starting it up.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Mind Trick thx so much for answering all the questions... My week(s) have been maddddddd busy with work... *sigh* I should just stop working.... ><

 

[darkgirku]

Wouldn't the "splash" after an egg pops by itself be a cause for hitting a fox out of firefox?
Just a thought, don't really know

 

[Mind Trick]

That just might be it lol

 

[V3ctorMan]

been a while all.. <3 ^^

*sigh* allrite it took a few days to get them all uploaded.. but I have all the recent videos.. I've had uploaded... please any/everyone.. please take a gander at em.. and lemme know any advice... (specially with Luigi) that's such a weird matchup.. ><' anyway here you all go... ^^ Enjoy!

Vs Rooktionary (Fox) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=damWQ7OHjdw
Vs Nicknyte (Ganon) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4lF4lWVwnQ
Vs Nicknyte (Luigi) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmwX65FKkak

Hope everyone likes... ^^

Rate/Comment/Critique/etc.. ^^

 

[Nicknyte]

That Ganondorf was ****. Needed to Chaingrab more. That Luigi is hella scary though. Hahaha. Who is this kid? Nicknyte? Pfft. Not as good as your Yoshi. Keep going strong, Vman from SV, man.

 

[V3ctorMan]

^^ Nicknyte

Got some more videos Yoshi's threads dying a bit.. both threads.. I gotta get you all lively again.. I miss you guys.. anyways i'll post the link(s) shortly ^^

How's everyone's holiday going? ^^

 

[~Twitch~]

vectorman what is it about yoshi that makes you want to main him instead of...say falco?

 

[ChivalRuse]

I noticed all Yoshi mains are awesome people.

 

[V3ctorMan]

The most important part of playing melee....

The fun...

I don't have NEARLY as much fun as I do with Falco.. that I do with Yoshi..

@ChivalRuse - you're awesomer

 

[ChivalRuse]

Are you going to Pound 5, Vman?

 

[V3ctorMan]

I want to dearly.. but I don't think I can "financially" I'm gonna do what i can though to try and make it out to these tournaments.. I wanna see and play many of you all ^^;\

EDIT:

you all are soo kind and supportive.. It means alot.. (I know I keep saying this) BUT IT REALLY DOES!.. <3
Updated OP... more matches vs Axe... finally added parrying into my game for keeps...hope you all enjoy

NEWEST!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDNM4Ojvyoc <---- vs Axe Falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVbdG2cXrQM <---- vs Axe Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7IbzmNb4o <---- vs Axe Pikachu


These above ^^^^^^ are the newest I've had so far and I hope to continue more.. ^^ thanks everyone for the support ^^

 

[t3h Icy]

That Falco has beaten M2K's Sheik and Dr.PeePee's Falco, but gets beaten up by Yoshi.

GO TO A TOURNAMENT!

 

[V3ctorMan]

vectorman what is it about yoshi that makes you want to main him instead of...say falco?

@Teh Icy - I'm trying man.. I'm sooo not financially prepared though ><

finishing up on what I was saying sorry..

but yeah the most important thing the "fun factor" with me playing Yoshi is much, much greater than playing Falco.. to me that's very important... If i'm not gonna have fun playing, then it's gonna drive me to leave the competetive smash scene... (the same thing happened to me with Halo) which ended my competetive Halo area..

also... to be blunt, idk what it is... but there is something I see in Yoshi, that others... just don't I guess.. something is there.. and I'm going to tap into it...........











































































I hope... ><

 

[~Twitch~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVbdG2cXrQM <---- vs Axe Fox

uhh, you never use ftilt or usmash as combo material. i always use these moves to combo with yoshi and i usually get a pretty good combo out of it.

for example at about 10:26 instead of nairing you might've been a good idea to ftilt to another dbjc uair to...say a bair to dbj nair. instead of going for that jab reset.

 

[Theftz22]

I got a question, Vman, who was your model Yoshi that you watched when you first started? Fumi?

 

[V3ctorMan]

uhh, you never use ftilt or usmash as combo material. i always use these moves to combo with yoshi and i usually get a pretty good combo out of it.

for example at about 10:26 instead of nairing you might've been a good idea to ftilt to another dbjc uair to...say a bair to dbj nair. instead of going for that jab reset.

ah, I see... I suppose you're right on that.. but just on a personal playstyle kind of thing, I wanted to connect that Nair and I mistimed/judged... the jab reset is one of my faves to use with Yoshi... and I'm confident I could've followed it up more... I might give that a try a bit more.. but I haven't had too much success w/bair/Nair.. on Axe's Fox/Falco at least ><

if the Nair "would've hit.. it appears it would be a "weakened hurtbox" Axe would've went to the right again and most likely teched in place or towards the edge (hypothesis, and what i was anticipating, I could be wrong) from there i'd techchase > Dtilt, (because I know Axe's DI is usually good) so I wouldn't have Dsmashed so he would've survived cuz my edgegame is "flanky" and i'd attempt to gimp him w/Edge cancelled eggs.. and Nair/Fsmash/Dsmash be my kill move...

Either way, I'm glad to hear your thoughts and insights.. it's always good to hear another opinion.. idea.. etc

I got a question, Vman, who was your model Yoshi that you watched when you first started? Fumi?

Of course, I thought Fumi was the only one actually.. I felt kinda bad.. because I heard of Svampen, and I later then found out that others played him too.. such as Mind Trick, Leffen, Moo, Bioshi, Park, and there are more I bet im missing.. but "no offense" to any of these mentioned players (because they're all great players ^^) but I didn't like the way/style they played him.. and i wanted to see if I could develop Yoshi into a bit more of a tech-savy kind of Yoshi of playstyle...I'd honestly say.. the only Yoshi player I stole ideas from was "Fumi" I loved the way he played/combod and many of the tricks he had used and it was a very large influence on my game.. ... a good 10% of all of Fumi's "view count" for his Yoshi is probably me watching/rewatching him

Not gonna lie, I did have my doubts in my own abilities many times.. some Yoshi players advised me not to play too technical/flashy, because it won't work out for me.. and to some extents they were right... so i've cut down on it a lil bit, and still tryin to improve.. but in the end.. I gave it a bit more of a go, and explored more options and I seemed to find a good "center of gravity and balance between the two to work with and it's gotten me pretty good results so far

Another Yoshi player that I did like was "Eggm" but he doesn't play him anymore.. (which breaks my heart) but I didn't take anything that I've seen him use, that I didn't already take from "Fumi" I guess you could say I'm a lil bit biased.. ><

Otherwise, the rest of my Yoshi that you've seen me used.. (hopefully some parts) but for the most part is trial and error...so anything that Fumi, didn't use that I currently use.. was my own trial and error process..

 

[Theftz22]

Oh yeah and, use your $ better. Buying a premium smashboard account but can't afford a tourney?

 

[V3ctorMan]

Oh yeah and, use your $ better. Buying a premium smashboard account but can't afford a tourney?

haha, I didn't buy my premium account though..><;

I got 2nd place.. for combo video of the year this year with my production of

ShadowClaw IV (Featuring Taj's Mewtwo) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=capoDHrZJng

I also got 2nd place in last years contest with my production of

The "AXE" Effect (Featuring Axe's Pikachu) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGTWI2f6AIE

And when I was a Mewtwo player, I made a combo video for me as well using Mewtwo (to attempt at rivalrying Taj's) (didn't work to well XD -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sai5GpioDL0

So yeah.. I also like to make combo videos..

 

[~Twitch~]

i want to see you play against people outside of arizona.

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yoshi! <3

I'll do my best ^^;

and yeah... i would like to too.. that also.. I will do my best ^^;;

 

[~Twitch~]

sorry. :/ should i edit my post?

 

[V3ctorMan]

Yes ^ and i'll edit mine too ><;

 

[ChivalRuse]

Well, lemme know if you do end up going to *Pound* so I can find you, and you can teach me Yoshi. ^_^

Also - for what it's worth, I believe in you; that is to say, I'm confident that you have the ability to develop a tournament-ready Yoshi that doesn't even have to compromise very much of your style.

<33 Keep fighting. I'm rooting for you (and I know most of my friends are, too!).

 

[leffen]

sup guys, ima start the matchup project when i get home from beast ( so ~10th january ), hoping to get loads of material vs top players recorded :D

Oh and Vman, i dunno what footage you've seen off me, but I can ensure you that if you think I play patiently and slow... you havent actually watch me play :D I use alot of technical stuff that i've yet to see any other yoshi use ( glad too see you picked up the reverse egg thing though :D ) and I also use much more shield pressure and shield/roll way less than you do

my point is though... you def dont need to play less technical, honestly i would keep on working on implementing more of yoshis many options, so you can keep your opponent away from your flaws.

Lets keep this thread alive yoshi players :>!
What's ur favorite stages guiz? for me its def YS ( :< at the sloped edges tho ) and DL64 :D

 

[t3h Icy]

I keep on saying it, the character with the most potential currently in Melee is Yoshi. He's mid-tier material once someone masters parrying.

CAN'T BEAT WHAT YOU CAN'T HIT!

 

[leffen]

I keep on saying it, the character with the most untapped potential currently in Melee is Yoshi.
He is mid tier material.

My thoughts since I started playing him.

He's mid-tier material once someone masters parrying.

CAN'T BEAT WHAT YOU CAN'T HIT!

Dont fool yourself, parrying isnt whats untapped. Just because vman used it with success one time doesnt mean ****, axe can adapt p. easily.

 

[~Twitch~]

vectorman why do you fair so much? it seems like you just throw it out there at random times without really thinking about it. are you trying to bait? just wondering because it seems like you rarely hit with that move.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Oh yeah and, use your $ better. Buying a premium smashboard account but can't afford a tourney?

A premium account is on the low side of $5

Pound 5 is on the higher side of 500, probably

 

[V3ctorMan]

vectorman why do you fair so much? it seems like you just throw it out there at random times without really thinking about it. are you trying to bait? just wondering because it seems like you rarely hit with that move.

haha, you called it buddy, it's mainly used for a bait... I'll throw it out there when I'm feeling Risky... I usually "hope" for my opponent to abuse his open attack window, which I'll usually use my DJC counter... but yeah, at times it's mostly me just throwing it out.. to force an attack which I can either get a "parry" or a DJC counter..

 

[V3ctorMan]

After multiple debates I decided to go through with it and make a Yoshi combo video since many of you seemed to show interest in seeing one.. So here it is.. I hope everyone enjoys it.. ^^ Enjoy.. Comment/critique please.. I love comments ^^

Special thanks to "Rooktionary" for the intruiging video idea.. ^^; Hope you're doing well.

Thanks all of you for all the support/ideas and everything you've all done... and continue to do for me in this community...You are all so awesome and supportive..

Well here it is - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTPfP_a6HBQ

Enjoy! ^^;

 

[~Twitch~]

i did enjoy it thank you. ^^

 

[Nogzor'z]

Great Videos, and Awesome Combo Video, VMan!!

Seriously, good stuff man. Every time I watch your new videos I get the immediate urge to play and better my own Yoshi.

Keep it up, Yo!

 

[LAW2222]

vman, what exactly is parrying and how do you do it/practice it?

 

[leffen]

So been back from BEAST for a couple of days now, and I dunno where to go with Yoshi honestly. Hes a great character, and I believe that if I put effort into it I could become the best player in PAL with him one day. Though, not in NTSC, atleast not atm.
I did well at BEAST, placed 9th, I could have placed higher but Im pleased considering I've only played melee for a year now. I played really good in friendlies with Yoshi, consistently 2-3 stocking great players even though I didn't practice him at all before the tournament.

I only played Falco in tournament though, and I'm feeling confident that I could actually reach my goal ( 2nd best in Sweden this summer and top 5 at genesis 2 ) with Falco. I played really well at times during BEAST, I beat several top players ( Calle W, Amsah&Zgetto in teams) and Im afraid that my Falco wont be able to keep up if I focus on Yoshi.

Thing is, Yoshi is so fun to play ( in certain matchups) Q_Q but I wont be able to perform well at a NTSC tournament yet, having only played yoshi for 3 months or smth =/

Gonna start the matchup project on friday or smth.
I didnt really get much Fox experience as I expected, turns out everyone wants to go falco vs yoshi ( I actually think this matchup is alot closer than what I previously thought ) so I dunno what matchup to start with.

What matchup do you guys wanna discuss?

 

[~Twitch~]

yoshi vs marth

ways to get around that big ole sword.