Jackie
Smash Journeyman
I was playing with VMan last night as ICs and we noticed that egg lay invincibility too, actually. When he ate up Nana and I tried to smack him, he went nowhere. I think he took no damage.
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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Wow, the combo video has a ton of hype. Some interesting stuff. I think the thing it demonstrated most was your comfort with your character. Some sweet quotes too. Notes have been taken 
Edit: I was just looking at my recorded match a second ago, and I noticed the egg thing happening, hitting twice on shield but not bouncing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L92uTnoNjxU#t=1439s, when the falcon is on the top platform of the transformation.
Edit: I was just looking at my recorded match a second ago, and I noticed the egg thing happening, hitting twice on shield but not bouncing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L92uTnoNjxU#t=1439s, when the falcon is on the top platform of the transformation.
Knut
Smash Apprentice
that combo video is dope. i'm always amazed every time i watch your stuff vman.
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
good **** vman, very enjoyable combovid, down-b stuff gave me some new ideas (muted the music though, a character as explosive as Yoshi needs more bang!)
@kimimaru
for edgeguarding (young) link, usually eggs and instant edgehogg do the trick for me, but I've never played a link as good as Germ. In theory using well timed invincibility from instant edgehog would beat most of his angles of recovery I think?
as for the match, you seem to have pretty good fundamentals already and a firm grasp on how to play Yoshi. I can give some specific situations though that might help your game.
- On PS, if you get a techchase on Peach on a platform, I think trying to chase with an upsmash under the platform is a much better option than jumping after them when they are kill%.
- When she's recovering, egg her float, so she's forced to throw a move out or take it.
- Fox is pretty insane to deal with in teams as he can be pretty much all over the stage, but the moment you try to catch him with throwing moves out he can just dashdance just out of your zone and punish it easily. I think being a little more conservative with dsmash might help you a lot.
- Nerves probably had to do with this, but try to not get caught in an infinite (and shame about the djc nair suicide)
- Upthrow peach instead of downthrow (throwing to your teammate is acceptable as well if you're fancy like that).
- Work on shielddrop consistency and implementing parry (not really for me to say though lol)
@kimimaru
for edgeguarding (young) link, usually eggs and instant edgehogg do the trick for me, but I've never played a link as good as Germ. In theory using well timed invincibility from instant edgehog would beat most of his angles of recovery I think?
as for the match, you seem to have pretty good fundamentals already and a firm grasp on how to play Yoshi. I can give some specific situations though that might help your game.
- On PS, if you get a techchase on Peach on a platform, I think trying to chase with an upsmash under the platform is a much better option than jumping after them when they are kill%.
- When she's recovering, egg her float, so she's forced to throw a move out or take it.
- Fox is pretty insane to deal with in teams as he can be pretty much all over the stage, but the moment you try to catch him with throwing moves out he can just dashdance just out of your zone and punish it easily. I think being a little more conservative with dsmash might help you a lot.
- Nerves probably had to do with this, but try to not get caught in an infinite
(and shame about the djc nair suicide)- Upthrow peach instead of downthrow (throwing to your teammate is acceptable as well if you're fancy like that).
- Work on shielddrop consistency and implementing parry (not really for me to say though lol)
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I want video...:'(
Purpletuce:
The problem with edgeguarding Link/YL isn't necessarily their Spin Attack recoveries but rather a combination of that and their Hookshots. Invincible rising N-airs from the edge are great at edgeguarding them but they rise up extremely fast after hitting a wall with their Hookshots so it can be difficult. I noticed that Germ always did an invincible F-air from the edge (which I failed at avoiding for some reason), and just now I realized that I could've easily countered it with Parry -> N-air since the attack is pretty slow and thus being easy to parry.
Thanks for the feedback Mind Trick! I'm much worse at Doubles and nerves hit me harder on this set so I had less shield drop consistency and used D-smash more than usual. I got caught in the infinite because I thought I'd land on the platform just by falling off but fell in the gap instead. What advantage does U-throw have over D-throw on Peach?
The problem with edgeguarding Link/YL isn't necessarily their Spin Attack recoveries but rather a combination of that and their Hookshots. Invincible rising N-airs from the edge are great at edgeguarding them but they rise up extremely fast after hitting a wall with their Hookshots so it can be difficult. I noticed that Germ always did an invincible F-air from the edge (which I failed at avoiding for some reason), and just now I realized that I could've easily countered it with Parry -> N-air since the attack is pretty slow and thus being easy to parry.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
The thing about hookshot is that Link/YL can only use it once evertime you leave the stage, so if you egg them out of it, they are forced to use UpB. Also, if you know he is going to go for an invincible F-air from the ledge, I wouldn't try to parry it, unless you have 100% consistency with parry, go for a sure-thing like F-smash are WD back -> D-smash/F-tilt/DJC U-air/whatever, depending on the situation.
I must not have seen that(the hyperlink) for some reason, my bad >.<.
Some things I noticed, maybe be more familiar with combos on floaties, at on point you landed a F-air on the peach at lower % and I don't think you knew how to follow it up, so you jabbed, so being more prepared on that. One time you knocked a peach up then tried throwing an egg from across the stage, and with that distance the peach could merely dodge the egg and float down safely, I like trying to get under them, so they have to worry about me coming after them. One definite problem was you weren't too used to your teammate, hit eachother a lot. One time you just started a DJC U-air juggle and he used his invincibility to N-air you out of it, and nearly killed you, which was upsetting.
Be cautious with your double jump, especially in teams. Also, if a peach is on a platform, you shouldn't jump into her. I liked getting to see your Yoshi, but I didn't like that it was only in doubles :[ hopefully there will be singles in the future!
I must not have seen that(the hyperlink) for some reason, my bad >.<.
Some things I noticed, maybe be more familiar with combos on floaties, at on point you landed a F-air on the peach at lower % and I don't think you knew how to follow it up, so you jabbed, so being more prepared on that. One time you knocked a peach up then tried throwing an egg from across the stage, and with that distance the peach could merely dodge the egg and float down safely, I like trying to get under them, so they have to worry about me coming after them. One definite problem was you weren't too used to your teammate, hit eachother a lot. One time you just started a DJC U-air juggle and he used his invincibility to N-air you out of it, and nearly killed you, which was upsetting.
Be cautious with your double jump, especially in teams. Also, if a peach is on a platform, you shouldn't jump into her. I liked getting to see your Yoshi, but I didn't like that it was only in doubles :[ hopefully there will be singles in the future!
Thanks for the feedback Purpletuce! Yeah, this was the first time I teamed with this teammate. When I was doing the U-air chain I really don't know why he just hit me, lol. I tend to play pretty chaotic in teams so I sometimes spam attacks a lot.
My hand slipped a few times this match so the jab you saw was supposed to be an U-tilt which would've led to one or more U-airs. As for the Egg, I don't remember what I was thinking but usually it'll hit her if she doesn't land on a platform and if not, I have some extra time to go help out my partner (who was at the edge at that time). I also noticed that I used F-air way too much. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't usually make these mistakes in singles since I play teams so differently.
I wish my singles matches were recorded because they were way better. I'm pretty sure my set with Germ was the closest set of the tournament.
My hand slipped a few times this match so the jab you saw was supposed to be an U-tilt which would've led to one or more U-airs. As for the Egg, I don't remember what I was thinking but usually it'll hit her if she doesn't land on a platform and if not, I have some extra time to go help out my partner (who was at the edge at that time). I also noticed that I used F-air way too much. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't usually make these mistakes in singles since I play teams so differently
.I wish my singles matches were recorded because they were way better. I'm pretty sure my set with Germ was the closest set of the tournament.
Ripple
ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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- Sep 4, 2006
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- 9,633
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
DK can do pretty much nothing but roll if you pressure the back of his shield (I don't think Up-B is very reliable?). Vman could have abused this a lot more instead of repeatedly getting shieldgrabbed (a lot of blocked ftilts). Also, on a lot of techchases he was too impatient and went for the tech in place punish every time. Last, no grabs, no anticipation on DK punch from the ledge.
DK should be combofood. One bair could easily lead to a 80% combo or even death, stadium match sorta illustrated that... You just gotta work on avoiding the bair and weaving in your own combo starters or go above and drop in with a djc.
Yo Mind Trick I hope you and Armada are boys. I was cheering him on as loudly as I could.LOL it was great seeing all these Smash kids around me getting visibly frustrated because they wanted to cheer on the other guy but I was supporting too hard and they were completely unwilling to get the balls to say anything.
Armada makin' me dat money like M2K!
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
So, I heard Vman/Axe took out Ratking/Eggz? Interesting. Also, I saw the Link crew things. Glad you exposed Link, Vman. The commentators talking about you was funny. Hype.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Ripple and my MM was awesome.. ^^ It was a blast, He has a great DK, and i'd say I didn't do too bad (at first at least) I learned a whole lot this tournament.. ^^ I can't wait to play more, and push even further.. (you guys should see the kill ripple gets on me that wins him the set... epic LOLZ..
I'll say this tho, I didn't lose to DK after this MM.. so I do have to thank Ripple I suppose <3
Random: There were alot of DK's/Link this tourney.. ><: it was so fun though. ^^; Will post so much more so soon..
Also Leffen, he's pretty cool... regardless of what he does here... He hung out in AZ's room with armada, mango last night with us.. they are all cool people.. ^^ more post to come very soon..
I'll say this tho, I didn't lose to DK after this MM.. so I do have to thank Ripple I suppose <3
Random: There were alot of DK's/Link this tourney.. ><: it was so fun though. ^^; Will post so much more so soon..
Also Leffen, he's pretty cool... regardless of what he does here... He hung out in AZ's room with armada, mango last night with us.. they are all cool people.. ^^ more post to come very soon..
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
I was definitely rooting for leffen to make it far lol (there was no doubt in my mind armada wouldn't take the tourney tbh)
leffen sucks chant was the lamest thing I've ever heard
I haven't seen too much or heard about your matches on stream Vman, how did you do in tourney?
leffen sucks chant was the lamest thing I've ever heard
I haven't seen too much or heard about your matches on stream Vman, how did you do in tourney?
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I feel like Leffen got a little more hating then he deserved, and I felt like he choked. Definitely awesome seeing him do so well.
I hope vman did well, but I didn't hear anything or see anything about him. We will see.
I hope vman did well, but I didn't hear anything or see anything about him. We will see.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Nobody is talking about anything, so I figured I'd post some stuff for people to chew on.
I was messing around the other day and started trying to use DJL turnaround for some things, interesting option. Usually when I'm grounded and I want to change directions abruptly I WD, which is easy reliable and versatile. It is a little slow, but not bad at all (16 frames iirc) The only real limitation is that if you want to do something quickly out of it, for have to go the way you WDed, unless you pivot which takes a long time, DJL fixes this, and looks pretty cool. There are only two ways that I see myself using it though:
1. When running to an opponent and wanting to B-air, you can run to them, jump, turnaround then slide your finger to the other jump button to turn around, then jump out of it.
2. After running through your opponent, you can DJL in the same way to attack them with moves that you usually can't (mainly d-tilt or d-smash?)
Alternatives to these would be WD (moving the direction you want) -> pivot to face the way you want -> wait -> action (slower, but easier)
Or WD the way you didn't want so that you face the way you want.
One thing I thought would be interesting is if you pressure an opponents shield some with DJC N-air, they can WD out. To scare them from that/look flashy/trick them into a mistake, you might run through their shield and either U-smash (no need to turn around) or DJL turnaround -> D-tilt poke. Since you ran through them you'd be safe from grabs (maybe they can WD?) which is nice too.
Thoughts?
Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysBKFOboABI#t=22m10s.
I was messing around the other day and started trying to use DJL turnaround for some things, interesting option. Usually when I'm grounded and I want to change directions abruptly I WD, which is easy reliable and versatile. It is a little slow, but not bad at all (16 frames iirc) The only real limitation is that if you want to do something quickly out of it, for have to go the way you WDed, unless you pivot which takes a long time, DJL fixes this, and looks pretty cool. There are only two ways that I see myself using it though:
1. When running to an opponent and wanting to B-air, you can run to them, jump, turnaround then slide your finger to the other jump button to turn around, then jump out of it.
2. After running through your opponent, you can DJL in the same way to attack them with moves that you usually can't (mainly d-tilt or d-smash?)
Alternatives to these would be WD (moving the direction you want) -> pivot to face the way you want -> wait -> action (slower, but easier)
Or WD the way you didn't want so that you face the way you want.
One thing I thought would be interesting is if you pressure an opponents shield some with DJC N-air, they can WD out. To scare them from that/look flashy/trick them into a mistake, you might run through their shield and either U-smash (no need to turn around) or DJL turnaround -> D-tilt poke. Since you ran through them you'd be safe from grabs (maybe they can WD?) which is nice too.
Thoughts?
Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysBKFOboABI#t=22m10s.
leffen
Smash Champion
possibly gonna be playing Yoshi at BEAST 3 as a true co-main
i still think i have the best yoshi haha ;D
i still think i have the best yoshi haha ;D
ThePrime
Smash Lord
yo leffen your yoshi is godlike lol
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I know I'm not Leffen, but I guess my opinions won't hurt.
FD is always horrible for Yoshi, and I almost always ban it. I like platforms too much.
FoD is a small stage that doesn't allow Falcon to move around very far, with large blastzones, so characters don't die very easy. Yoshi isn't hard to edgeguard, but he has a few options and I can come back safely more often than Falcon can usually, so I think living longer works in Yoshis favor. Finally, the platforms mess with a good amount of Falcon's stuff, but be aware he can stomp through lower platforms. This is probably my favorite CP.
DL is more open for falcon to move around, and the platforms don't mess with him. I CP this if they ban FoD.
YS gives him walljumps as a recovery option, and the platform height and small blastzones probably work in his favor mroe than yours, so I generally don't like this stage, and would strike against it.
BF is probably the most neutral IMO, the famous ledges make them need a little precision, and stops techs/walljumps which I like. Platforms and blastline are pretty average.
PS they might CP you to, gives Falcon lots of room to move and doesn't give you much platform. I don't like this stage, but I like it more than FD. I do like the windmill though. Wavelanding on it is fun.
Also, I played at a tourney, and I was messing around a lot with other characters before it, so I wasn't doing too well with my Yoshi. TBH I probably should have played the characters I was playing before the tourney, at the tourney. Oh well. I'll have videos up on YT soon, probably. ATM they are on http://www.twitch.tv/alienallen90, livestream from let there be smash at osu. I'm on at ~35:00 against a Fox, and against a Falco where I played horribly at ~30:00.
FD is always horrible for Yoshi, and I almost always ban it. I like platforms too much.
FoD is a small stage that doesn't allow Falcon to move around very far, with large blastzones, so characters don't die very easy. Yoshi isn't hard to edgeguard, but he has a few options and I can come back safely more often than Falcon can usually, so I think living longer works in Yoshis favor. Finally, the platforms mess with a good amount of Falcon's stuff, but be aware he can stomp through lower platforms. This is probably my favorite CP.
DL is more open for falcon to move around, and the platforms don't mess with him. I CP this if they ban FoD.
YS gives him walljumps as a recovery option, and the platform height and small blastzones probably work in his favor mroe than yours, so I generally don't like this stage, and would strike against it.
BF is probably the most neutral IMO, the famous ledges make them need a little precision, and stops techs/walljumps which I like. Platforms and blastline are pretty average.
PS they might CP you to, gives Falcon lots of room to move and doesn't give you much platform. I don't like this stage, but I like it more than FD. I do like the windmill though. Wavelanding on it is fun.
Also, I played at a tourney, and I was messing around a lot with other characters before it, so I wasn't doing too well with my Yoshi. TBH I probably should have played the characters I was playing before the tourney, at the tourney. Oh well. I'll have videos up on YT soon, probably. ATM they are on http://www.twitch.tv/alienallen90, livestream from let there be smash at osu. I'm on at ~35:00 against a Fox, and against a Falco where I played horribly at ~30:00.
Laijin
Smash Hero
I forget why I'm subscribed to this thread. Oh well
leffen
Smash Champion
FD/FoD
Worst is DL and YS probs.
Found some sick new yoshi tech. Who knew Yoshis dash attack and standing grab were so broken
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
FD? Interesting. The above tech sounds like boost grabbing, but I doubt Leffen would call that a new tech. Maybe some Yoshi twist on Shai dropping? I doubt such a tech will ever be revealed anyway. The 'gamebreaking' tech that was going to be revealed via PM after Apex 2012 never came out.
leffen
Smash Champion
I'll try to record some Yoshi friendlies and then you can see what I mean if you're smart and look close enough 
honestly though don't come begging to me for advice, its not like you guys have ever given me anything. Not trying to be mean, but I gain nothing from revealing my tech.
honestly though don't come begging to me for advice, its not like you guys have ever given me anything. Not trying to be mean, but I gain nothing from revealing my tech.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
More recordings are always a good thing.
I don't plan on begging, and I give what I can. Ultimately, if you help anyone is your choice.
Does anyone want to talk about campy Fox? I play very often with a very technical, campy fox, who is really close to my skill level, and decently close to another one (Ratking, Leffen/Vman might have met him at Apex). Wondering what people think.
I'm not to sure if my strategy is even valid, but I try to space them with B-airs/D-tilts/WDs/DDs until they either fall back and give me stage control, or try to attack me. They usually come in with SHFFLs, and I try to beat it with mainly WD back -> a move I think is good for the situation. I also have a habit of trying to use the platforms for mobility, but when they are on me, I usually shield, which is fine against bad players, because they'll botch spacing on my shield and get shield drop U-aired. Against the smarter players, they won't fall for it though, and it just ends up with me having less options.
I don't plan on begging, and I give what I can. Ultimately, if you help anyone is your choice.
Does anyone want to talk about campy Fox? I play very often with a very technical, campy fox, who is really close to my skill level, and decently close to another one (Ratking, Leffen/Vman might have met him at Apex). Wondering what people think.
I'm not to sure if my strategy is even valid, but I try to space them with B-airs/D-tilts/WDs/DDs until they either fall back and give me stage control, or try to attack me. They usually come in with SHFFLs, and I try to beat it with mainly WD back -> a move I think is good for the situation. I also have a habit of trying to use the platforms for mobility, but when they are on me, I usually shield, which is fine against bad players, because they'll botch spacing on my shield and get shield drop U-aired. Against the smarter players, they won't fall for it though, and it just ends up with me having less options.
Theftz22
Smash Lord
Wow, hiding tech from other low tier mains?
That's low.
That's low.
Anand
Smash Journeyman
Probably more like hiding tech from other high-level players he'd play in the future, if anything.
Also from the sound of it, he just doesn't want to put in the effort to reveal tech, not that he is actively putting in effort to hide tech.
leffen
Smash Champion
Lol thats like saying:
WTF ARMADA DIDNT PM HBOX BEFORE POUND5 AND SAY THAT HE WAS GOING TO GO YOUNG LINK?
Thats low.
gtfo scrub
edit:Yoshi mains real problem is that they're all, honestly, really bad players overall (yes even v3ctorman) who have zero fundamentals and just rely on their character being gimmicky and that no one has experience against it.
Me giving them new tech would only distract them from what they really need to get better at.
WTF ARMADA DIDNT PM HBOX BEFORE POUND5 AND SAY THAT HE WAS GOING TO GO YOUNG LINK?
Thats low.
gtfo scrub
edit:Yoshi mains real problem is that they're all, honestly, really bad players overall (yes even v3ctorman) who have zero fundamentals and just rely on their character being gimmicky and that no one has experience against it.
Me giving them new tech would only distract them from what they really need to get better at.
V3ctorMan
Smash Champion
Oh leffen. Your posts make me nowadays..
Hope you rep well at your tourney.. ^^
EDIT: My computer has crashed... so yeah I use my xb360 for internet now.. so until I get a new computer.. it'll be a lil weird for me, but I'll still continue to see what's going on.. I have a few more things to finish in the thread(s) but we got alot of hype comin up..
nowadays.. Hope you rep well at your tourney.. ^^
EDIT: My computer has crashed... so yeah I use my xb360 for internet now.. so until I get a new computer.. it'll be a lil weird for me, but I'll still continue to see what's going on.. I have a few more things to finish in the thread(s) but we got alot of hype comin up..
Won a (charity) tournament (raised ~$80 :>) using mainly Yoshi yesterday. It was just 9 entrants but there were some pretty good players and I used Yoshi against everyone in the 4 man bracket (2 pools->top2 get out->bracket) and didn't drop a single game
after winning WF 4-0 I played I played Fox in GF though, since he requested it.
It was all recorded, so I'm gonna try to upload it in the future.
oh -leffen
after winning WF 4-0 I played I played Fox in GF though, since he requested it.
It was all recorded, so I'm gonna try to upload it in the future.
oh -leffen
What's the frame data for the fastest possible DJC nair? I often feel like it isn't worth to go for the DJC because you have to reach a certain height, then jump, then pressing A.
Same question for uair, if possible.
Sorry if the question has already been asked.
After maining a pretty technical Fox for a year I think I'm ready to pick up a low tier and actually get okay with 'em. Yoshi has become my favorite. He has so many little tricks with all of his moves, and his learning curve is tough, but fun, to crack. (yay egg puns) Also his dair makes me feel dirty on shields. I love it.
edit:
Same question for uair, if possible.
Sorry if the question has already been asked.
After maining a pretty technical Fox for a year I think I'm ready to pick up a low tier and actually get okay with 'em. Yoshi has become my favorite. He has so many little tricks with all of his moves, and his learning curve is tough, but fun, to crack. (yay egg puns) Also his dair makes me feel dirty on shields. I love it.
edit:
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I I'm not sure if that is right, that is starting the dj and nair as soon as possible, and Ive done them quickly enough to land before the nair comes out 3 frames after starting it up. I'll look into it when I can get to a computer.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Sometimes I jab d tilt. I've seen someone else do it too. It works to guess when they'll try to jump or grab. It doesn't really work as pressure, but nothing really does.
leffen
Smash Champion
Jabs are mostly to lock people into shield and to make your aerials/dtilt/ftilt safeish.
They're really good though when not over used, esp at higher percents. When people respect that you can jab after your attack, and they start to try to punish that instead/just roll away, you just adapt and do don't do the jab so that you can keep up the pressure.
Jab->dtilt/running grab/fsmash is a really legit mixup (dtilt ***** any cc/not shielding, grab ***** shielding/running away, fsmash beats delayed move/spotdodge)
parrying during shield pressure might very well be the sickest thing in the entire game
They're really good though when not over used, esp at higher percents. When people respect that you can jab after your attack, and they start to try to punish that instead/just roll away, you just adapt and do don't do the jab so that you can keep up the pressure.
Jab->dtilt/running grab/fsmash is a really legit mixup (dtilt ***** any cc/not shielding, grab ***** shielding/running away, fsmash beats delayed move/spotdodge)
parrying during shield pressure might very well be the sickest thing in the entire game