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- Thread starter Darxmarth23
- Start date
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
What's the best way to practice laser spam in practical situations? I can't seem to get the timing right and always get ***** by small characters (screw you Olimar!). Also, I seem to have problems predicting with falco, any Ideas?
Thanks D:!
Thanks D:!
Tips of recovery against MetaKnights and Marths please?
What are options other than jump on with nair, jump on with laser, shorthop to sideB onstage, fakeout sideb onto ledge, and sideb short cancelling when they predict a long one onstage?
It just feels like, despite that list being a lot, it's not enough to mindgame a good opponent (they can see what's going to come before it does and prepare just well enough).
What are options other than jump on with nair, jump on with laser, shorthop to sideB onstage, fakeout sideb onto ledge, and sideb short cancelling when they predict a long one onstage?
It just feels like, despite that list being a lot, it's not enough to mindgame a good opponent (they can see what's going to come before it does and prepare just well enough).
@Slain Avenger: it depends on who you are playing against. Against Olimar, you want to keep at a safe distance. That being outside of pivot grab range. At that point, you can shdl and shl but they'll need to be near perfect in order to hit that short *******.
@Crackle: I'm not a big fan of jumping back onto the stage with Nair. It can be easily punished. Don't forget your conventional ways to get back onto the stage: get up, roll get up, jump get up are all viable.
@Crackle: I'm not a big fan of jumping back onto the stage with Nair. It can be easily punished. Don't forget your conventional ways to get back onto the stage: get up, roll get up, jump get up are all viable.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Yeah he's alternating between jab1 and jab2, iirc, pressing down actually doesnt do anything for jab cancelling, it just helps you time better. So yeah, it is jab cancelling, but you dont really have to do anything else except for timing it. but know that its very escapable, im pretty sure snake can ftilt you in between the jabs.
Don Guero
Smash Journeyman
are there any usefull aplications for fair?
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
You can always do the FOPGUS
Fair On Platform Guarenteed Up Smash.
Fair jablocks on lower percentages, if you use it right and someone misses a tech and you manage to stop fair before hitting the ground you get a guarenteed usmash.
Yeah I'm pro I have even more hidden ATs
J4pu
Smash Champion
wtf does that even mean?
gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
He is doing a single jab over and over again.
Double jab over and over is better because the 2nd jab has good stun.
Thats why Double jab - grab is better than single jab - grab
Just practice in training mode till you get it down. learn each method of laser
but Laser spam is not good. It makes you predictable. you need to be constantly switching up between: empty shorthop, Double laser, single laser, phantasm... etc. Falco has so many options at long range so why just keep using one?.
Against olimar, single laser. Single laser is always the safer option.
Predicting comes from experience. just keep playing people better than you
Guaranteed upsmash? Good luck landing anything after you do fair. it has so much lag you will get punished and if you let the animation finish the last hit will knock them back. I dont see how it can give a guaranteed upsmash.
Fair jab locks?........now your just trolling
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Fair is good for gimping Diddy out of his up b after you chainspike him.
Don Guero
Smash Journeyman
is jab infinite to deflector sheild a good combo?
Denzi
Smash Master
No.
Also, you can use fair to mix up and hit through airdodges in the middle of a string.
Don Guero
Smash Journeyman
is going off stage to try to gimp someone a good idea?
i always have a hard time recovering.
i always have a hard time recovering.
J4pu
Smash Champion
I like weakspot bair better
Denzi
Smash Master
It depends on which characterr you're facing.
wangston
Smash Lord
I did I shtl the other day. It was really cool. But I think it can only be done in brazil because the toilets flush the other way. It's some crazy southern hemisphere ****.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
<3
Put your opponent in his back on a platform on low percent, do a fullhop then wait a small bit and fair, you will hit him with fairs jablock hits forcing a getup, and if you time it correctly fair will autocancel. Yeey free usmash.Guaranteed upsmash? Good luck landing anything after you do fair. it has so much lag you will get punished and if you let the animation finish the last hit will knock them back. I dont see how it can give a guaranteed upsmash.
Fair jab locks?........now your just trolling
Probably more but I never considered looking into it more then usmash anyways.
Why aren't you guys supporting my advancement of the metagame. People aren't even applying my NSIFEH (not so instant firebird edge-hog)
gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
Cool but too much effort for a usmash at low %
how does snake deal with a falco who's laser camping heavily? and just escaping by phantasm'ing and mixing it up close range? I usually use diddy for this mu, but I wanna learn it with snake. But the hardest part I have is getting close to falco to even do damage.
I've tried crouching, but that only works if I have a lead. From the start of a match its tough to know what to do because the instant I'm up trying to get a nade out I just get hit by lasers and falco will probably reflect/dodge it anyways, and if I get close he'll just run away with phantasm or if I try blocking his path with a nade he phantasm's above it and through my shield or just keeps shooting at me, or maybe grabs or something. its rough. ~_~
I've tried crouching, but that only works if I have a lead. From the start of a match its tough to know what to do because the instant I'm up trying to get a nade out I just get hit by lasers and falco will probably reflect/dodge it anyways, and if I get close he'll just run away with phantasm or if I try blocking his path with a nade he phantasm's above it and through my shield or just keeps shooting at me, or maybe grabs or something. its rough. ~_~
Acton
Smash Journeyman
This is a falco thread. <_< We won't betray our kind. LOL
Denzi
Smash Master
Yes we will, that way they'll have to help us out.
Start off the match crouching; crawl to approach. A properly timed Dtilt can hit through Phantasm. You can also grab/Ftilt/Utilt through it (save Utilt for kills though). I think the best way to hit through Phantasm would be to pull a Nade and Shield right as he's about to hit you, that way he has the greatest chance of hitting it. Strike YI Brawl. It's your worst starter vs Falco. Once you can grab him/ hit him, Get set up with your "Snake stuff" (you know what I'm talking about) and Falco should have a hard time getting started again (depending on stage size).
Use platforms to your advantage, and if you're on FD remember you have the GR Boost Grab CG into Dash Attack on us to build damage/get kills.
Speaking of killing, your longevity helps you out a ton, so if you can avoid Falco's kill moves (Fsmash, Usmash, Uair, Fresh Bair) you're pretty much set.
And if you feel like it (some do) you can start a campfest. Your camping can kill, ours can't.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QijsuAnngSY
Ambient_Horizon
Smash Ace
Keep in mind that you don't want to stay Proned (the technical term for Snake' crawl) for too long at least in the beginning phase of the matchup. Giving Falco ways to possibly approach you is bad. Then again both characters in this matchup want the other to approach.
Keep nades by you to deter or interrupt Phantasm approaches. F-Tilt can also work as well as U-Tilt as Denzi stated. Keep that U-Tilt fresh it kills Falco early as hell.
Side note: If a Falco uses Reflector on the ground while your Proned. You can so Powershield it and punish. His Reflector has a substantial amount of ending lag.
The lasers will be a pain because you'll have to keep ducking under them. Should you decide to not Prone under them Powershield the ****. If you're good with Nades you can weave a few in there to intterupt the laser storm. Cooking them is very hard here but Falco will have to respond and stop Lasering if you get one close to him.
Assuming you aren't within CG range you can do very well up close on him. Properly spaced F-Tilts are beast. Falco can't trade hits with Snake. Our killing power is abundant and were fat. For him its the opposite. Most Falco's will adopt a hit and run strategy for this match.
In close quarters when you do have him there just space correctly. D-Tilt is you're friend. And be sure to watch out for Falco combos. Gatling, Nair to U-Tilt etc. His Jab is also very good and leads to Grabs among other things. And of course watch for the SHL and more importantly the Silent Laser. They lead to combos.
Patience is the key to this match for both sides. You will take a lot of damage in lasers but the hits you do get off on Falco even the playing field. Just be smart and make the most out of every opening. Snake is a punisher. Use that.
Oh to end my wall of text. If you get him off the stage press your advantage. Falco doesn't want you to gain moment.
See Denzi's post for the other stuff I'm too lazy to post now lol
Keep nades by you to deter or interrupt Phantasm approaches. F-Tilt can also work as well as U-Tilt as Denzi stated. Keep that U-Tilt fresh it kills Falco early as hell.
Side note: If a Falco uses Reflector on the ground while your Proned. You can so Powershield it and punish. His Reflector has a substantial amount of ending lag.
The lasers will be a pain because you'll have to keep ducking under them. Should you decide to not Prone under them Powershield the ****. If you're good with Nades you can weave a few in there to intterupt the laser storm. Cooking them is very hard here but Falco will have to respond and stop Lasering if you get one close to him.
Assuming you aren't within CG range you can do very well up close on him. Properly spaced F-Tilts are beast. Falco can't trade hits with Snake. Our killing power is abundant and were fat. For him its the opposite. Most Falco's will adopt a hit and run strategy for this match.
In close quarters when you do have him there just space correctly. D-Tilt is you're friend. And be sure to watch out for Falco combos. Gatling, Nair to U-Tilt etc. His Jab is also very good and leads to Grabs among other things. And of course watch for the SHL and more importantly the Silent Laser. They lead to combos.
Patience is the key to this match for both sides. You will take a lot of damage in lasers but the hits you do get off on Falco even the playing field. Just be smart and make the most out of every opening. Snake is a punisher. Use that.
Oh to end my wall of text. If you get him off the stage press your advantage. Falco doesn't want you to gain moment.
See Denzi's post for the other stuff I'm too lazy to post now lol
TechnoDreamer
Smash Cadet
Thanks guys! I think I'll keep an eye on this thread to reduce my suck.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
K here's a question: What is it about japes that makes us so darn good? Are there any special combos we have that work well here, that the platforms give us amazing laser coverage, or something else entirely?
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Falco's Reflector won't hit Snake when he's proned, the hitbox is too high.
I find that with Snake it's good to blow yourself up at the start of the match to get out of CG percent so that you don't have to worry about it.
And if you know a phantasm is coming, pull a nade and go into nade stance. When he phantasms, shield and roll backwards so that you dont get hit by the phantasm hitbox. Then punish Falco on the landing lag.
Also if you can GR Falco to the VERY Edge of the stage, you can GR fair him. It only works if you can seamlessly walk off the stage and fair immediately.
I find that with Snake it's good to blow yourself up at the start of the match to get out of CG percent so that you don't have to worry about it.
And if you know a phantasm is coming, pull a nade and go into nade stance. When he phantasms, shield and roll backwards so that you dont get hit by the phantasm hitbox. Then punish Falco on the landing lag.
Also if you can GR Falco to the VERY Edge of the stage, you can GR fair him. It only works if you can seamlessly walk off the stage and fair immediately.
I'm asking this too. If someone like marth takes the central platform, has the lead, and just waits...what can Falco do?
But japes does let you lie forever, which is good for Falco.
Ambient_Horizon
Smash Ace
I sometimes blow my self up for 40 if I feel like I'm going to be grabbed anyway.
And Shine does hit Snake Proned, but it depends on the distance you are from Falco. I've been smacked a few times like that.
And Falco ***** on Japes because of Chainspiking into the river current. A lot of people don't know how to escape it properly and also some characters' recoveries are ****ty in that situation. Should the opponent escape Falco still has the upper hand and gimp or spike you back into the water.
The very high ceiling is good for Falco in the fact that he'll live longer. And its just a big stage in general. Via Phantasm Falco can traverse the stage pretty quickly and just keep Laser camping. Its so annoying to face a good Falco on Japes when you add up all three of those elements.
And no one ever said Japes was Falco's CP to everything. Against certain people these advantages are eliminated or weakened. But honestly Marth would have a harder time chasing Falco than vice versa. We have Phantasm and there's lots of ledges. And the lasers still work anyway.
And Shine does hit Snake Proned, but it depends on the distance you are from Falco. I've been smacked a few times like that.
And Falco ***** on Japes because of Chainspiking into the river current. A lot of people don't know how to escape it properly and also some characters' recoveries are ****ty in that situation. Should the opponent escape Falco still has the upper hand and gimp or spike you back into the water.
The very high ceiling is good for Falco in the fact that he'll live longer. And its just a big stage in general. Via Phantasm Falco can traverse the stage pretty quickly and just keep Laser camping. Its so annoying to face a good Falco on Japes when you add up all three of those elements.
And no one ever said Japes was Falco's CP to everything. Against certain people these advantages are eliminated or weakened. But honestly Marth would have a harder time chasing Falco than vice versa. We have Phantasm and there's lots of ledges. And the lasers still work anyway.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
just play on it and youll see lol
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
why are you so uninformed?
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
If you walk the CG or buffer it, they cannot pull a grenade.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Ya Jon?, stop being such a scrub lol jk.
Hows NCSU smash going? I mayyy be back this summer =D.
Hows NCSU smash going? I mayyy be back this summer =D.
wangston
Smash Lord
Serious question this time.
Is it true the 2nd jab of AAAAAAAAA has more hit stun than the first???? Frame date please.
Is it true the 2nd jab of AAAAAAAAA has more hit stun than the first???? Frame date please.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
the second jab just pops the opponent up higher do the math yourself.
Slain Avenger
Smash Ace
Okay, regardless of how stupid it might sound, this is a serious question. How do I properly DI with falco? I know the right move to use is Bair, since it's the fastest momentum canceling move. However, way back when I was learning about DI I would just use whatever aerial aimed at the direction opposite to my momentum to cancel and save myself from death. This method, even though incorrect, still seemed to yield better results. So, how am I supposed to properly DI using Bair?
J4pu
Smash Champion
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221969
have a blast
have a blast
Denzi
Smash Master
Yeah, you should be momentum canceling with Uair.
omega zero
Smash Cadet
Is it possible to SHDL with the WiiMote-Nunchuck? It feels awkward, And I always end up doing a grounded laser. Single Hop laser is possible though. I do plan on getting a GC controller, but until then should I bother practicing SHDL?
gunterrsmash01
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2007
- Messages
- 2,533
Really lol. I always thought it was Bair for horizontal DI and Dair for vertical DI. I dont feel like going through that huge thread so can you explain?