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[BleachigoZX]

Sort of...I don't think we have frame data on that yet.

(Well I think we do, I just forgot where it is...)

 

[J4pu]

Really? So it's not like Melee meteor smashes where you can cancel it by jumping/UpB? Or am I wrong on that too?

lol i stand corrected.
forgot about meteor cancelling

 

[Juber]

Ok ive seen some stuff about platform canceling, and 1) I dunno how to do it and 2) I dunno why I should do it. The only applications i see would be for Falco to get his beautiful upsmash off on a higher platform. Please teach me and advise me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ok ive seen some stuff about platform canceling, and 1) I dunno how to do it and 2) I dunno why I should do it. The only applications i see would be for Falco to get his beautiful upsmash off on a higher platform. Please teach me and advise me.

use dair while ur feet are just above a platform

it stops all momentum and lets u stand on the platform without lag

 

[Juber]

Oh ok. Is this something that people should incorporate into their gameplay or is it just a useful skill to know in general?

 

[Mikha'el]

What exactly is this air grab release? Ive read the thread, but im more of a visual person. Does anyone have a video?

 

[Denzi]

use dair while ur feet are just above a platform

it stops all momentum and lets u stand on the platform without lag

It only works on moving platforms, so it's not that easy to get the chance to incorporate because it's stage specific.

 

[Jon?]

What exactly is this air grab release? Ive read the thread, but im more of a visual person. Does anyone have a video?

It's when you grab an opponent and release them into the air by not pummeling them. On characters like Wario, you get a free upsmash.

 

[J4pu]

falco doesn't have an auto air release on anybody on flat ground, it depends on what button your opponent is mashing when he breaks out, otherwise they'll release to the ground.
i made a thread on this topic months ago, search for it if you want some more specifics

main use of platform canceling I see is if somebody is sitting in shield on say the sv platform at low percent thinking they're safe (although Nair breaks through shield pretty well anyways), you jump, platform cancel, grab, CG with the platform movement to help.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Japanese zelda's found this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo&feature=channel_page

could we get any result doing that (i think its a nb reversal, not sure though)


Edit:
Could anyone test knockback on fthrow and dthrow on battlefield on different characters, and at what percentages it will leave them directly on the platform, leading to a platform laserlock?

 

[Jon?]

People talked about Falco doing a B reversal to cancel out momentum. It was conclusive that it was not worth it and gave no big recovery advantage.

 

[Oreos]

When your done with your normal cg 0-45% once you throw from 36% you sh ff a dair then jab cancel to d throw him again then your opponent will probably di away from you and you can do a boost smash to get to around 89ish percent follow up with a Bair and your looking at around 100%.


I was wondering is this just totally situational or can it actually work i mean it seems to work fine for me. I only use this method when i can't get the normal cg to spike wiether or not i already had 36 ish% when i got the grab and was too far away from the ledge or something along those lines. My question was is this just a flaw and your opponent has to be dumb enough to fall for this or could it concievably work?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

When your done with your normal cg 0-45% once you throw from 36% you sh ff a dair then jab cancel to d throw him again then your opponent will probably di away from you and you can do a boost smash to get to around 89ish percent follow up with a Bair and your looking at around 100%.


I was wondering is this just totally situational or can it actually work i mean it seems to work fine for me. I only use this method when i can't get the normal cg to spike wiether or not i already had 36 ish% when i got the grab and was too far away from the ledge or something along those lines. My question was is this just a flaw and your opponent has to be dumb enough to fall for this or could it concievably work?

If he fails and doesn't roll/getup, or airdodge after a dthrow, sure.

But almost everyone does that.

 

[jpl315]

which aerial should be used after knockback?...uair or bair?

 

[Oreos]

for momentum cancelling its bair, then fast fall.

 

[AvoiD]

Japanese zelda's found this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo&feature=channel_page

could we get any result doing that (i think its a nb reversal, not sure though)


Edit:
Could anyone test knockback on fthrow and dthrow on battlefield on different characters, and at what percentages it will leave them directly on the platform, leading to a platform laserlock?

I'm pretty sure your able to reverse it with any special. What if you could do it with reflector or firebird?

I'm not to smart with all that momentum ****, so excuse me for saying ******** stuff.

 

[WaterTails]

I'm pretty sure your able to reverse it with any special. What if you could do it with reflector or firebird?

I'm not to smart with all that momentum ****, so excuse me for saying ******** stuff.

Are you sure about that? I thought that was just, like, Game and Watch's bucket breaking, but for Zelda?

Also, I don't think you'd be able to do that very efficiently with Falco, given that his two specials that actually do anything to your momentum are firebirds and Phantasms (Have you heard of my new symphonic metal band, "Firebirds and Phantasms?").

 

[AvoiD]

Look at the last part of my post.

I seriously have no idea about any of it, but eh, wouldn't hurt to try it.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I'll test this, results tomorrow!

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Are you sure about that? I thought that was just, like, Game and Watch's bucket breaking, but for Zelda?

Also, I don't think you'd be able to do that very efficiently with Falco, given that his two specials that actually do anything to your momentum are firebirds and Phantasms.

Watch the video. The second attempt shows that a regular Bair > Neutral B does nothing, so it's not like bucket braking.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Watch the video. The second attempt shows that a regular Bair > Neutral B does nothing, so it's not like bucket braking.

Yeah, strange that it is bucket breaking with reversal tho.

repeating this, could lead to free damagez
Could anyone test knockback on fthrow and dthrow on battlefield on different characters, and at what percentages it will leave them directly on the platform, leading to a platform laserlock?

 

[Denzi]

Could anyone test knockback on fthrow and dthrow on battlefield on different characters, and at what percentages it will leave them directly on the platform, leading to a platform laserlock?

Even disregarding % it tends to be very DI specific.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Alright, what would become of phantasm as a means to cancel momentum?

I mean phantasm cancels almost as well as Bair > Jump without the negative of nearly as much height gain, but it does put you into the state of helplessness.

Typically phantasm cancels any knockback horizontally the moment the start-up lag of the move is finished. The knockback though causes a small amount of height gain and the end of the phantasm to lose all of it's forward momentum, but if you phantasm cancel to the 3/4, 1/2 or 0 lengths, then you will still have some forward momentum.

So I don't know. From what I have done with this compared to Bair > jumping both have negatives, but both seem to live to the same percents. So perhaps Bair > phantasm cancel or Bair > jump could have it's uses?

 

[BleachigoZX]

Yeah, I couldn't find anything. I tried all combos of B reversing/momentum.

Then I tried Firebird, and I couldn't get anything either, but I did learn how to Phantasm the Ledge (*grabsledge*), then phantasm again for another ledge grab. Timing is hard, but fun. I'm going to do this in tournament .

Techskilltoogood

 

[Oreos]

Yeah, I couldn't find anything. I tried all combos of B reversing/momentum.

Then I tried Firebird, and I couldn't get anything either, but I did learn how to Phantasm the Ledge (*grabsledge*), then phantasm again for another ledge grab. Timing is hard, but fun. I'm going to do this in tournament .

Techskilltoogood

isn't that phantasm ledge grab only viable on smashville and battlefront cause they have the ledges that push you up? I know you can do it on fd but you have to be perfect with pushing analog stick away from ledge then phanatasm back into it, or else you sd'd

 

[BleachigoZX]

I can do it on any stage that isn't platform like.

I can't do it on FD though, is too hardz yo...>_>

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Typically phantasm cancels any knockback horizontally the moment the start-up lag of the move is finished. The knockback though causes a small amount of height gain and the end of the phantasm to lose all of it's forward momentum, but if you phantasm cancel to the 3/4, 1/2 or 0 lengths, then you will still have some forward momentum.

you cant cancel 3/4.


Phantasm frame 1-------------------2-------------------------------3
0-----------------------------------0-------------------------------0

This is how you are teleported, these are the distances that can be cancelled on. How can you cancel what doesnt exist?

 

[King Horus]

I've seen people use like a reverse DACUS with Falco, how the hell do I do it?

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, look at the beginning of Ozz's vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmcb_iwmwak

 

[AvoiD]

It wasn't a reverse dacus, it was a jump canceled reverse up smash.

All your basically doing is running in one direction, hitting x/y or whatever you have set to Jump, and turn around/pivoting and doing an up smash.

Pretty sure Ozz will post here about it as well, or someone else. So yee.

 

[King Horus]

So I'd do that how? seems confusing

 

[Jon?]

I think I've seen this question posted here before and I forgot the answers to it.

How do you do a jump-canceled out of shield U-smash? By that I mean what are the specific key inputs?

Also, how much frame advantage does it provide versus a regular let go of shield into U-smash?

 

[AvoiD]

- Jump-Canceled Up-Smash
How to Perform: While running, press a Jump button immediately before inputting an up-smash.
Effect: Character slides forward while performing an Up-smash. Up-smash can be charged. Distance varies by character.

- Multiple Movement AT’s and Info:
- ZAD, Running Speeds, Ledge Running, and Ledge Dashing:
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207061
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn_S0IPIwzs

- Reverse Jump-Canceled Up-Smash
How to Perform: While running, press the opposite direction you're running on the joystick, then quickly rotate it upward and do a Jump-Canceled Up-Smash.
Effect: Character slides in the same direction as the initial run, turns around, and does an Up-Smash.
OP: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164980

---

Taken from Vyse's AT thread.

 

[King Horus]

Alright I'll try that, thanks alot

 

[†Slader7†]

Any tips on fighting Marth with Falco?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

you cant cancel 3/4.


Phantasm frame 1-------------------2-------------------------------3
0-----------------------------------0-------------------------------0

This is how you are teleported, these are the distances that can be cancelled on. How can you cancel what doesnt exist?

The 3/4 was where it was canceled at the very end. It really wasn't canceled. It simply changed how you ended the phantasm. The full phantasm has little forward momentum at the end. The 3/4 thing allows falco the full length of the phantasm, but he ends up flying forward with more momentum.

Any tips on fighting Marth with Falco?

Just a few things to keep in mind, dthrow > "whatever" is predicting game. Marth typically gets out through either the UpB early.

Marth also gets out of the AAA combo using UpB. So try not to use AAA if they know how to use it.

Don't advance much. Let marth make the first move and punish him. That's about all I can say at the moment.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

error - dub post.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I think I've seen this question posted here before and I forgot the answers to it.

How do you do a jump-canceled out of shield U-smash? By that I mean what are the specific key inputs?

Also, how much frame advantage does it provide versus a regular let go of shield into U-smash?

Heya Jon?, First off it's being fun playing smash with you down in NC and I'm now back in MA safe and sound. Playing against your Falco helped me alot with mine. =]


Now for your question, to do an U-smash oos you just have to input jump and then up-cstickor Up+A within 4 frames after you input jump IIRC. If you have tap jump ON you can input Up then A, or Up then up-cstick. It's very hard to do with tap-jump OFF and default controls, what you can do is map one of your triggers to jump to make it easier.

Up-smashing oos negates the shield drop lag, which I believe is 4 frames, but don't quote me on it. So it's a 4 frame advantage.

I've find it very useful to punish a dash attack when your opponent is at killing percentage.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Heya Jon?, First off it's being fun playing smash with you down in NC and I'm now back in MA safe and sound. Playing against your Falco helped me alot with mine. =]


Now for your question, to do an U-smash oos you just have to input jump and then up-cstickor Up+A within 4 frames after you input jump IIRC. If you have tap jump ON you can input Up then A, or Up then up-cstick. It's very hard to do with tap-jump OFF and default controls, what you can do is map one of your triggers to jump to make it easier.

Up-smashing oos negates the shield drop lag, which I believe is 4 frames, but don't quote me on it. So it's a 4 frame advantage.

I've find it very useful to punish a dash attack when your opponent is at killing percentage.

7 frames

107frames

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Thank you for correcting me

 

[BleachigoZX]

I want to do a small guide where I compare the frame data to all ground attacks, to Falcos. That way we know what beats what in speed. I know it won't be too useful, but I've always wanted a reference of some sort.

Like a "falcoattack" is faster than a "enemyattack" guide.