Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Jon?]

Reroll away? Are you talking about the tech roll or rolling again after the tech roll?

It may be be be, but sometimes when my G&W friend perfectly predicts which way I tech roll, he can get another grab in or sometimes a smash. I think the G&W has to buffer the dash into a buffered attack/grab. I have no idea how it works.

Anyone who mains or alts G&W have any insight to this?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Reroll away? Are you talking about the tech roll or rolling again after the tech roll?

It may be be be, but sometimes when my G&W friend perfectly predicts which way I tech roll, he can get another grab in or sometimes a smash. I think the G&W has to buffer the dash into a buffered attack/grab. I have no idea how it works.

Anyone who mains or alts G&W have any insight to this?

Are you DI'ing before you tech roll?

I always DI the way I'm gonna roll, techroll, reroll.

 

[BleachigoZX]

You guys know that the throws make make different amounts of "beeps" right?
D-throw does 5 or 6. I forget, because the timing for the tech is burned into my brain.

But I DI one way the tech the other way. D-throw D-smash isn't legit. It is only a guess thing like our D-throw, jab, LL.

I DI one way the tech the other to throw them off. If you DI one way and the read it, they get a free dash attack. But by quickly switching it up you can throw them off.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I DI one way the tech the other to throw them off. If you DI one way and the read it, they get a free dash attack. But by quickly switching it up you can throw them off.

No, a tech roll is faster then anything they have, even if you DI.

 

[BleachigoZX]

No, I meant as you are about to hit the floor you DI to the right so that you start off on the right. When you hit the floor you tech towards your left.

Though I can't imagine a GW being able to hit you with anything if you tech roll away from him.

 

[YUNq PHR3$H]

K Teching ?
I 4got How To Do It
Can Someone Refresh My Memory pl0x

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

K Teching ?
I 4got How To Do It
Can Someone Refresh My Memory pl0x

Press R+a direction at the same time while you just entered/left his last hand.

 

[Emperor Time]

Does this apply with any sort of shield button?

Not that I don't use R to shield >_> Just wondering.

 

[YUNq PHR3$H]

Does this apply with any sort of shield button?

Not that I don't use R to shield >_> Just wondering.

Same.
Changed R To Attack For Easy IAP Advantage

 

[AvoiD]

Yeah it does.

And I use L lul.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah it does.

And I use L lul.

I use L for dacus and spin sliding (ONCE I GET IT THROUGH), lolz.

It's set to attack.

X for special to iap ftw

 

[Denzi]

X for special to iap ftw

I jump with x and set y to special. Huh.

 

[wangston]

I set L to attack. I can dacaus just about every time I want to now. I have no problem iap with Y and B. Though I usually switch to claw really quick when I want to iap cause some times I hit A when going from Y to B and I do a shfair when using just my thumb.

 

[Emperor Time]

Tap jump off and L to attack. Everything else is the same. I use R for BPG, though.
I find canceling IAP easier when I don't claw the controller, but I usually do.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I'm having trouble killing with falco, I've being playing a zelda main recently and he plays really defensively when he gets to kill percentage. The problem is that Zelda out ranges my falco pretty badly so its really hard to even hit him. I find that most of my kills comes from up smash oos when he attacks me.

 

[WaterTails]

I'm having trouble killing with falco, I've being playing a zelda main recently and he plays really defensively when he gets to kill percentage. The problem is that Zelda out ranges my falco pretty badly so its really hard to even hit him. I find that most of my kills comes from up smash oos when he attacks me.

How does he outrange you? You have lasers. I don't have much experience playing against Zelda, but don't lasers, like, cancel Din's Fire, and pretty much shut her camping game down?

Edit: I was wrong about Din's Fire. That ain't Melee. You can still force them to approach, though.

Also, I tried a few matches against a CPU Zelda, so this might not be too helpful, but I got most of my kills with a silent laser into an Fsmash!

 

[Yumewomiteru]

He is really good at shielding and side stepping and reflecting my lasers, I can hit him with my phantasm but i'll get owned if i get predicted or mis space it.
I get a few kills with fsmash, but usually he shields it, or even fsmash, since zelda's fsmash outprioritizes falco's.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Does he do this a lot:

Roll > Roll > Roll behind you > Spot Dodge > Dsmash? Or just Spot Dodge > Dsmash in general? Just start charging some of your smashes a bit and you'll mess over the spot dodge. Only laser like one or two at a time otherwise you'll get reflected. Or you could laser > reflector if you really want the 2 percent damage from the lasers.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Not so much rolling, mostly spot dodging, and he does alot of moves besides downsmash.

I'll give the reflector a shot, i know it can trip so that certainly helps

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Zelda's all about trying to fight her in the air. Even though she has ridiculously strong sweet spotted aerials, it's still the weakest part of her game. Nair is really good in this match up and so is Bair.

Do you SDI Zelda's Usmash Up and Away or Down and away? I'm not sure.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I can't SDI her up-smash...

 

[Jon?]

Hello Yume, I believe we have met at a local tourny in NC!

I have lots of experience with this matchup. I have a friend at NC State who plays Zelda as his main. I do believe you have met him at the tourny as well.

To start things, it is quite difficult to outcamp a Zelda. Her Neutral B reflects both lasers from a SHDL and if timed correctly elimates most of our approaches.

This matchup you have to play safely. Shield wisely when she is in the air in front or behind you. That is the perfect way to get a lightning kick which is either 20% damage or death at 70%. If they attempt a lightning kick on you while you shield, do an OOS Bair. The lightning kick has some major lag if it hits a shield.

Your options on the ground are bit limited in this matchup but you can work around them nonetheless. Fake your lasers to bait the Neutral B and go in with a phantasm. You can buffer CG Zelda to a fair percent. CG to spike is guaranteed kill if you get her off the edge. Try not to approach often with a dash attack. Dash attack is completely useless if the Zelda gets her Neutral B in time. A solid move to create spacing with is Ftilt. It outranges the majority of her ground attacks and pushes her away.

There are lots of moves to watch out for. Dinn's fire is easy to predict but be careful when you're on the ground. Even if you hit Zelda while in the Dinn's fire animation, most people aim the Dinn's fire down towards the stage so it goes off anyways. If you are recovering and Zelda is using Dinn's fire, a Dair or Bair will clash with the Dinn's fire causing no damage or knockback to you.

Dtilt is quite annoying for Falco. In most cases it's a tilt lock to a free attack. DI away towards the ground and shield immediately.

Her Usmash is quite strange to SDI out of. Sometimes I get out of it but I don't know how and I won't remember my button input.

Hope this helps, Yume. Ask me any more questions if you need more answers. I am probably the most experienced in the Falco vs. Zelda matchup on these boards, lol.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Your options on the ground are bit limited in this matchup but you can work around them nonetheless. Fake your lasers to bait the Neutral B and go in with a phantasm. You can buffer CG Zelda to a fair percent. CG to spike is guaranteed kill if you get her off the edge. Try not to approach often with a dash attack. Dash attack is completely useless if the Zelda gets her Neutral B in time. A solid move to create spacing with is Ftilt. It outranges the majority of her ground attacks and pushes her away.

We told him the exact opposite things. But seriously, with Zelda's strong and quick as hell tilts and her smashes lasting forever and being even stronger, you definitely want to keep this one in the air. It's a lot easier to avoid sweet spotted Fairs and Bairs than it is to avoid her entire ground arsenal.

 

[Jon?]

We told him the exact opposite things. But seriously, with Zelda's strong and quick as hell tilts and her smashes lasting forever and being even stronger, you definitely want to keep this one in the air. It's a lot easier to avoid sweet spotted Fairs and Bairs than it is to avoid her entire ground arsenal.

I was just discussing your options against Zelda on the ground. Sometimes it may be a bit difficult to force her into the air. Main way I put her in the air is grab pressure.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I was just discussing your options against Zelda on the ground. Sometimes it may be a bit difficult to force her into the air. Main way I put her in the air is grab pressure.

I feel that's Zelda's is a pretty solid defensive unit when standing still, but if she has to be moving her options are limited. For one her grab animation is just horrible. Standing, dash and pivot grabs last 12, 11, 14 frames respectivly. Not to mention the cool down times last a bit of time as well.

So I believe the goal is to try to bait her into making the first move. You can do that by baiting with spaced jabs and Ftilts, maybe even some SHed Aerials. If you are spacing yourself correctly and bait her into making the first move she isn't as difficult to take down. So pretty much like Jon? said is to press with the close-mid range stuff into making her do the honors of trying to get closer to you.

 

[Jon?]

Well said, crystal. At first, Zelda was a pain for me to fight. But now that I can handle the matchup better, I win about 80% of the time.

I have a question for you guys as well regarding matchups with characters with good reflectors. Characters such as Fox and Wolf have very good reflectors and some of the best in my state play them in tournaments. After CG damage I find it quite hard to approach or camp characters with fast reflectors. I end up try to bait reflector with overhead lasers and go in for an approach but it doesn't work all the time.

How would you guys handle this kind of situation or matchup?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well said, crystal. At first, Zelda was a pain for me to fight. But now that I can handle the matchup better, I win about 80% of the time.

I have a question for you guys as well regarding matchups with characters with good reflectors. Characters such as Fox and Wolf have very good reflectors and some of the best in my state play them in tournaments. After CG damage I find it quite hard to approach or camp characters with fast reflectors. I end up try to bait reflector with overhead lasers and go in for an approach but it doesn't work all the time.

How would you guys handle this kind of situation or matchup?

I play wifi, so I dont' see people wiping out the reflector with insane speed. So I typically don't run into that problem where anytime you try to use a laser it gets reflected back at you. But in that situation I would say it's best to try to forego the laser usage in camp situations and simply just get close. Once your closer you can try to mix it up with empty SHs that could lead into Aerials or SHLs.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Haha, thanks for the help guys, and Jon? your friend is the zelda I'm talking about,lol
I'll be in NC until july 18th we should play at the NC State library sometimes, I need to learn some falco from you. =D

I personally dont have much experience playing against fox or wolf, but i do play a G&W pretty often.
What I do against him is to really cut down on the lasers, only using it when i think he wouldnt be expecting it. I approach with IAP or bairs, but mostly I wait for him to make the first move and attack after he does.

 

[Jon?]

I'll be going to State tomorrow to turn in some paper work. We can play a few games at the library then?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

cool! I don't have lab tomorrow so I'm free anytime after 12.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I decided to pick up Falco as a secondary. Got any tips for a noob?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@Aurasmash14: There are a lot of things for one to say. For now, the best advice one can say is to take a look through the stickies and read up on some things. Once you've done that people can help you with any questions you have that you learned.

But as a start I would say one of the most important things to learn as Falco is how to SHDL and SHL consistantly.

=====================

I had my own question to ask. Falco's phantasm work in this way correct?

There are 3 points in the move that falco can be hit by during the phantasm. Each point is a frame apart. I believe the frames are 18-19-20.

So if this was the model of the attack here are his locations during the phantasm

18----------19---------20

In 1-18 falco is still beginning up the attack. On frame 19 teleports from his previous start up location to the next location, during frame 19 a hitbox appears between the place that falco was to the spot he is next. On frame 20 falco teleports to next location, the previous hitbox dissappears, but a new one pops up between the place where falco just was and was next.

I just want to confirm this.

 

[Tommy_G]

@Aurasmash14: There are a lot of things for one to say. For now, the best advice one can say is to take a look through the stickies and read up on some things. Once you've done that people can help you with any questions you have that you learned.

But as a start I would say one of the most important things to learn as Falco is how to SHDL and SHL consistantly.

=====================

I had my own question to ask. Falco's phantasm work in this way correct?

There are 3 points in the move that falco can be hit by during the phantasm. Each point is a frame apart. I believe the frames are 18-19-20.

So if this was the model of the attack here are his locations during the phantasm

18----------19---------20

In 1-18 falco is still beginning up the attack. On frame 19 teleports from his previous start up location to the next location, during frame 19 a hitbox appears between the place that falco was to the spot he is next. On frame 20 falco teleports to next location, the previous hitbox dissappears, but a new one pops up between the place where falco just was and was next.

I just want to confirm this.

Yes this is correct for the phantasm. If there is a hurtbox overlapping any one of those frames when falco teleports there, he will get hit. In a samus combo video, samus throws out a grab and super armor grabs him(she takes the phantasm hit) when he phantasms through her

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yes this is correct for the phantasm. If there is a hurtbox overlapping any one of those frames when falco teleports there, he will get hit. In a samus combo video, samus throws out a grab and super armor grabs him(she takes the phantasm hit) when he phantasms through her

Since that is correct, would not phantasm be a useful thing to use if Snake is holding a grenade, TL or Link holds a bomb? I believe that the grenade explodes about a frame or 2 after a hitbox has overlapped it. That means if you hit with the first half or so of the phantasm Falco would not be hit by the explosion because he would be too far away from it by the time it explodes. Link or TL I think the bomb would either drop out of his hand or explode.

 

[Stafy]

Laser to Dair - good?

 

[Jon?]

I think Laser to DAir is a solid move. It sets up for good tech chasing but isn't always guaranteed.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Can Falco be shield grabbed out of a gatling combo?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yes, but it depends upon how far back the person slides when shielding the hit. When the UpSmash portion makes contact with the person in the shield they will slide back a bit, but how much depends if they can shield grab you. I am not quite sure what determines how far a person slides when they take a hit when shielding.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Does laser has buffer frames or IASA frames? If so, is SHL+IAP possible?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Does laser has buffer frames or IASA frames? If so, is SHL+IAP possible?

Not sure. A frame perfect IAP from grounded laser might be a little difficult. Buffering the IAP from the ground really doesn't make too much of a difference as it take roughly maybe like a couple of frames to input the command from the SHL anyway. So overall I would say buffered vs not is minmal in difference.