J4pu
Smash Champion
general consensus is grab > Dthrow > follow-up is better than Dtilt > follow-up
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Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.
- Thread starter Darxmarth23
- Start date
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
The song is the second best part of the video.
Best part is when he pauses and zooms in and out of the taunt.
As for the Dtilt, there's two problems with it as a shield poke:
1- Low range
2- Why shield poke? Grab. Especially since the percents where Dtilt can "combo" into UpSmash are generally chaingrab percents.
Aside from that, it's pretty quick and pops them up nicely, so maybe on characters like Jiggs at high percent? It's sketchy.
As for the spike, J4pu is right in saying that if they land standing up, Grab-> Dthrow does much the same thing, but better. If your opponent lands on the ground so you can't grab them, Laser Lock.
BladerZ528
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2008
- Messages
- 20
I have trouble getting out of Peach's chaingrabs till 40% or higher =/ any help?
J4pu
Smash Champion
DI > jump
I assume you mean Dthrow > turnaround regrab
I assume you mean Dthrow > turnaround regrab
Random Question
Smash Cadet
Best falco on the east coast?
J4pu
Smash Champion
I would say D1, you may get some differing opinions tho
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
Does anyone have a video of the Dair tech chase that you do out of D-Throw?
Ich Bin Awesome
Smash Journeyman
I noticed you guys have a xat chat (http://xat.com/chat/room/48824743/?p=0&ss=6). I'm trying to make a universal xat room that is tabbed to all individual character xats with each owner becoming an owner in this room as well.
To do it the owner has to tab xat.com/Wifi_Room
(Go to "Edit your Chat", type in Wifi_Room, click get, select it, OK)
So far the Link, Mario, Pit, and Pikachu xats are connected.
Who is the owner by the way?
To do it the owner has to tab xat.com/Wifi_Room
(Go to "Edit your Chat", type in Wifi_Room, click get, select it, OK)
So far the Link, Mario, Pit, and Pikachu xats are connected.
Who is the owner by the way?
So dtilt isn't a good setup?
Well on Samus dtilt + usmash seems to work, and with characters that are similarly floaty I think its good around 40-60 percent. Those characters aren't chain-grabbable at those percents anyway.
Well on Samus dtilt + usmash seems to work, and with characters that are similarly floaty I think its good around 40-60 percent. Those characters aren't chain-grabbable at those percents anyway.
J4pu
Smash Champion
at any % you could Dtilt > anything somebody, you can Dthrow > Dair/Nair/(boost)Usmash them.
Grab > shield > Dtilt
and that's how we came to the conclusion that dtilt is more or less useless
Grab > shield > Dtilt
and that's how we came to the conclusion that dtilt is more or less useless
Denzi
Smash Master
Probably our seccond worst move, right?
J4pu
Smash Champion
Firebird is better than Dtilt right now imo, it has veryyyyyyyyyy situational uses that can possibly be a great set-up: LL.
As a recovery option it definitely sucks though.
As a recovery option it definitely sucks though.
Denzi
Smash Master
I was actually thinking of Fair as the worst. It only has a few tricks and the things you can do with it (Fullhopped Fair -> Silent Laser) just aren't worth even trying.
I'd rather have Firebird than no vertical recovery at all.
(now that I think about it, I actually probably Fair more than I Dtilt
)
I'd rather have Firebird than no vertical recovery at all.
(now that I think about it, I actually probably Fair more than I Dtilt
)
Vlade
Social Outcast
I fair more than I dtilt also.
But that's because I fair by accident. It's pretty hard to dtilt by accident.
But that's because I fair by accident. It's pretty hard to dtilt by accident.
Denzi
Smash Master
Exactly. lol.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Question: What characters can you guys beat if:
1) Both players are of about equal skill
2) Both players are of high skill level
3) They grab the ledge and wait there, with a 50% advantage or higher.
What can you guys do? Assume that this is legal in a tournament setting.
I was wondering, because I don't honestly know and I thought it a bit odd that such a high tier character has problems with an easy and effective tactic.
1) Both players are of about equal skill
2) Both players are of high skill level
3) They grab the ledge and wait there, with a 50% advantage or higher.
What can you guys do? Assume that this is legal in a tournament setting.
I was wondering, because I don't honestly know and I thought it a bit odd that such a high tier character has problems with an easy and effective tactic.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
Get close and pester them with low-angled ftilts.
Once you see an opening, run off, FF, DJBair. Best case scenario stagespike. The ledge system in Brawl doesn't allow for quick drop-offs and regrabs, so when your opponent re-grabs the edge there's a bit of time where they can't do anything.
Falco definitely has more trouble with it that other top tiers though. He makes up for it by never being down in percent
.
Once you see an opening, run off, FF, DJBair. Best case scenario stagespike. The ledge system in Brawl doesn't allow for quick drop-offs and regrabs, so when your opponent re-grabs the edge there's a bit of time where they can't do anything.
Falco definitely has more trouble with it that other top tiers though. He makes up for it by never being down in percent
.
§witch
Smash Lord
Falco doesn't have a problem with planking...
I had like an eight page debate about this before hold on, I'll find the thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208450&page=5
I had like an eight page debate about this before hold on, I'll find the thread.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=208450&page=5
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Can he do anything to GaW at BF? GaW can nair through the stage really easily there, and you cannot stand a safe distance from that and hit us with tilts. If you run off we can fall waaaaaaaaaaaay down and still jump-nair parachute and survive, and be completely safe from falco..
How would you guys beat this?
Thanks for the thread, i'll read it now.
How would you guys beat this?
Thanks for the thread, i'll read it now.
pure_awesome
Smash Lord
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Nair Game and Watch's only real plank strat? Box and Upair don't work very well, Turtle faces the wrong way, and Key is suicide.
If that's the case, then predictability is a problem. When you drop we can just approach the ledge, shield the Nair hits, and start our follow-up while you're still in ledge frames. Or jump over the Nair when you drop to get on the other side of you for much the same effect. From there, double-jump Bair should come out faster than GaW can Turtle (or anything else effective), and we can Phantasm back onstage if things get too hairy.
If that's the case, then predictability is a problem. When you drop we can just approach the ledge, shield the Nair hits, and start our follow-up while you're still in ledge frames. Or jump over the Nair when you drop to get on the other side of you for much the same effect. From there, double-jump Bair should come out faster than GaW can Turtle (or anything else effective), and we can Phantasm back onstage if things get too hairy.
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
I feel I could outmanuever that....
But from this point on we would both be theory crafting. I don't think your first option would work, but the second one might.
Thanks for the thoughts, so it really just depends on falco? I just was curious.
But from this point on we would both be theory crafting. I don't think your first option would work, but the second one might.
Thanks for the thoughts, so it really just depends on falco? I just was curious.
§witch
Smash Lord
Yeah, it's basically dependent on both players. If falco gets the edge on you he gets an invulnerable dunk and that no fun for you.
GMo
Smash Apprentice
Quick inquiry for you fellows.
Instead of spiking characters who are difficult to gimp (MK), wouldn't it be a good idea to just spike them into the ground and tech-chase.
If you send them off the stage it seems that if you chase them off for a second spike or some other from of edgeguarding you are putting yourself at a significant disadvantage.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Also the OP spelled "Question" wrong. Not that it matters...or anything.
Instead of spiking characters who are difficult to gimp (MK), wouldn't it be a good idea to just spike them into the ground and tech-chase.
If you send them off the stage it seems that if you chase them off for a second spike or some other from of edgeguarding you are putting yourself at a significant disadvantage.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Also the OP spelled "Question" wrong. Not that it matters...or anything.
Absolutely. That's why when you fight MK, Snake, et all, you don't run off for a second spike.
You either fire your lasers or bair punch.
And I think we know. We just kept it here for some reason...
But yeah.. SH dair is amazing. Wangston had a thread about it.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218419
jibbyjaont
Smash Journeyman
What's the one matchup where you guys tend to use your secondaries?
GMo
Smash Apprentice
Snake? Following a chaingrab I think you can threaten a cypher grab gimp and then follow up with a second spike. Usually they have to c4 recover. I don't think Snake should be spiked into the stage for a tech chase. Guys like MK and maybe Pika and some others would be good candidates for the tech-chase, though.
Am I wrong here?
J4pu
Smash Champion
IC's are scary
Psycho.Fx
Smash Rookie
So, i just started playing falco, how exactly does his spike work? from my experiences it seems his dair spikes when hes in his upward momentum of his jump, am i correct?
J4pu
Smash Champion
spikes at start-up.
doesn't matter whether you are moving up or down
doesn't matter whether you are moving up or down
Like J4PU said, at the start up. You just had a pre-conceived notion that it spikes while Falco is rising because that's how we do it; to avoid ffing off the stage.
However, I believe there was a thread where J4PU described how to spike without FFing using the C-stick (and without jumping.)
To summarize it, you hold diagonally down in the direction off stage and stick. Because he's already Ding downwards and to the left/right, Falco doesn't fall faster.
Vorguen
Smash Champion
You can tell it doesn't spike on downward motion mostly when you use it that way on-stage. Chances are if you are doing that off-stage you are going to suicide.
wangston
Smash Lord
Denzi
Smash Master
It does spike on a downward motion. It doesn't matter which way you're moving, it matters where you hit your opponent.
Cross.
Smash Ace
Where exactly do you press B to shorten the phantasm? I've been trying for a while now but I havent been successful at all except for the occasional time I do it by mistake.
Vlade
Social Outcast
I actually sometimes struggle with cancelling the phantasm every now and then.
Just remember that you don't mash b and you actually have to time the button presses (they're quite quick!)
Just remember that you don't mash b and you actually have to time the button presses (they're quite quick!)
Does anyone use FH (full-hopped) aerials to any success? I believe full-hops or jumps are more effective than they were in melee since Brawl is floatier in general.
Generally, I input all FH aerials and a jump instantly, they come out faster then jumping, then performing an aerial.
Edgeguarding with, FH bair, FH fair, FH nair? Anyone?
I think FHdair can be used to get a spike if timed properly. In addition, you can fall off the edge and perform the aerial, and use the momentum boost from performing an aerial and jump simultaneously to get back to the stage (without using firebird/illusion).
Generally, I input all FH aerials and a jump instantly, they come out faster then jumping, then performing an aerial.
Edgeguarding with, FH bair, FH fair, FH nair? Anyone?
I think FHdair can be used to get a spike if timed properly. In addition, you can fall off the edge and perform the aerial, and use the momentum boost from performing an aerial and jump simultaneously to get back to the stage (without using firebird/illusion).
Of course people use full hopped aerials... when appropriate.
Believe it or not, we've been aware of this since... well... the game came out.
Hehe, well thanks for clearing that up. The reason I made an entire topic on its applications with shine is because I saw no one using it in the matches I have seen (FHS) performed instantly in particularly. It's not the same as jumping then using shine because of the lag. Not to mention you cannot jump THEN use the shine hanging from the edge because you will do the full jump get-up animation. In such a case, if you drop down from the ledge and use shine, you will either be forced to use firebird, or will fall to your death.
In particular, I havn't seen anyone use it on the edge (shine-hopping or whatever you wanna call it). I think it would be extremely useful if it was used when being baited with projectiles that keep you pressured on the edge (Snake, Diddy).
I think I have seen Tommy G use the shine and it's boost to get back to the stage though. Otherwise, if he performed it normally, he would have fallen under the stage.
In particular, I havn't seen anyone use it on the edge (shine-hopping or whatever you wanna call it). I think it would be extremely useful if it was used when being baited with projectiles that keep you pressured on the edge (Snake, Diddy).
I think I have seen Tommy G use the shine and it's boost to get back to the stage though. Otherwise, if he performed it normally, he would have fallen under the stage.