Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[321BOOM]

Thankyou~ But I just had someone explain it to me, so I'm good

 

[Pr0phetic]

In my opinion, platform pressure is the idea of using moves while your opponent is on a platform or trying to move of a platform in order to pressure your opponent into making a bad the wrong choice and ultimately getting punished for it.

Moves that Marth can use for this are U-Tilt, F-Tilt, Jab, and U-Smash.

How can you forget Uair?

 

[Shaya]

Nair is pretty good platform pressure as well...

Arguably better than utilt and up smash

 

[Lord Chair]

Nair is pretty good platform pressure as well...

Arguably better than utilt and up smash

Very much arguably, non-tipper your opponent can jump away. Spacing for the tipper is improbable.

 

[Pierce7d]

Platform pressure is when you are underneath on opponent on a platform and use moves that make it very hard for them to get down. Nair is amazing good at hitting people on platforms, because it prevents them from dropping through and hit their shield twice. Ftilt is generally good when people try to run off of a platform, because running off and airdodging isn't safe (if I didn't ftilt, you're basically screwed because I'm going to hit you) and you can always throw the ftilt before their in the air (IE: in mid dash)

If your opponent likes to roll into you a lot, Dash Backwards when you think they'll roll, and use Dancing Blade. Or, just FFNair in place a lot, and approach at random. If your opponent is really wrecking your zoning with rolls, it's probably because you're giving too much space. Start committing to your attacks a little bit more.

Pit's roll is also really good. He also has frame 2-3 Utilt which is godlike, because it has no lag and deals 16% if all three hits connect.

EDIT: Nair is your BEST platform pressure. Also, I would suggest experimenting with SHDB Up if they're at kill percents. The last hit will reach when you're grounded, and the first three hits may shield stab or cause the opponent to get stuck in or drop their shield. If you connect with only the last hit and Dancing Blade is fresh, the knockback is comparable to Utilt.

I find Ftilt to be better platform pressure than Utilt, and would never use Usmash.

 

[Albert.]

. Also, I would suggest experimenting with SHDB Up if they're at kill percents. The last hit will reach when you're grounded, and the first three hits may shield stab or cause the opponent to get stuck in or drop their shield. If you connect with only the last hit and Dancing Blade is fresh, the knockback is comparable to Utilt.

Sounds pretty cool, but very unfeasible. They can just jump out of their shield, or chose to take the initial hits to DI /SDI out before the last one can hit. especially "at kill percents"

You have to hope they're stupid, for this to work.

 

[Pierce7d]

Sounds pretty cool, but very unfeasible. They can just jump out of their shield, or chose to take the initial hits to DI /SDI out before the last one can hit. especially "at kill percents"

You have to hope they're stupid, for this to work.

Okay, I'll let M2k and Ally let them know you think they're stupid since I've scored a K.O. on both of them this way.

If you always expect your opponent to know what you're thinking or react in the best possible way, you're quite mistaken. Also, this technique might not be half bad at shield stabbing.

 

[Albert.]

Okay, I'll let M2k and Ally let them know you think they're stupid since I've scored a K.O. on both of them this way.

If you always expect your opponent to know what you're thinking or react in the best possible way, you're quite mistaken. Also, this technique might not be half bad at shield stabbing.

LOLLL K, you do that.

I bet it didn't happen again though, eh? Yeah really cool Marth tricks don't work that often after people adapt.

 

[∫unk]

LOL the call out

yeah if i remember every dumb kill i got on every good player LOL

in a friendly i couldn't kill mike for **** and it was close then i accidently u-smashed with ddd in the middle of the stage and he ran into it, that's why u-smash works because you predict their short hop and then they can't do anything about it

completely safe and fool-proof

 

[Albert.]

Remember guys, spam your kill moves. Eventually it'll hit.

 

[marth13]

I have a question about reversing my Shield Breaker. Like, I'll see videos of people jumping and reversing a SB, but they also get this sudden shift in momentum. How do you do get that momentum shift?

 

[•Col•]

I have a question about reversing my Shield Breaker. Like, I'll see videos of people jumping and reversing a SB, but they also get this sudden shift in momentum. How do you do get that momentum shift?

You just jump in a direction, push the B button, then quickly flick the control stick the opposite way Marth is facing. It's called wave-bouncing when you get the momentum shift.

If you don't flick the control stick fast enough, you may just turn around without the momentum shift. Or if you're REALLY not fast enough, you may not turn around at all.

Here's a video I made a long time ago showing Ike's wave-bounced special attacks, and you can see a few times I mess up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWo4tW_rIzk

 

[theeboredone]

Guys, what's the sweet spot rule on Marth's up air when trying to grab the edge? I was playing a friend of mine in friendlies, and out of curiosity, I used Ike's D-tilt, which somehow connected and spiked him. So, was just wondering if that's just hitting Marth before he grabs the edge or runs out of invincibility frames or what.

 

[•Col•]

Guys, what's the sweet spot rule on Marth's up air when trying to grab the edge? I was playing a friend of mine in friendlies, and out of curiosity, I used Ike's D-tilt, which somehow connected and spiked him. So, was just wondering if that's just hitting Marth before he grabs the edge or runs out of invincibility frames or what.

Uh... I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.... If you're saying the Marth grabbed the ledge, instantly let go and used upair... Then yes his invincibility frames would end before the uair did...

 

[Shadowserpant]

i assume he meant up B

my question:
why can't i SHFair > full DB? it seems to always stop after DB1

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

i assume he meant up B

my question:
why can't i SHFair > full DB? it seems to always stop after DB1

You're probably hitting your DB too fast.

 

[Pierce7d]

LOLLL K, you do that.

I bet it didn't happen again though, eh? Yeah really cool Marth tricks don't work that often after people adapt.

You're right, I should've used Marth guaranteed unavoidable kill moves, instead of innovative kill set-ups. What was I thinking?!

oh wait . . .

BTW, I killed my sparring partner with this YESTERDAY. Someone who knows my entire style very well.

Do you even understand how good this is as a mix-up. Your opponent either

A) drops their shield and dies

OR

B) stays in shield and risks you not swinging hit 4, and therefore receives additional platform pressure, leading to death.

 

[Lord Chair]

Lol making an unorthodox kill sometimes doesn't mean it's terribly viable as well.

I remember when our local DDD used fsmash to break my fair tipper spacing (DDD leans back in the startup frames), that was pretty cool and technically, it works to a certain extent. That certain extent is just not really worth the pay-off, however.

DB platform pressure is fine and cool and w/e, but why use tactics like that if you can take your advantage in a more flexible fashion? Also, opponents who tend to just shield while standing on a platform, who are they? Ally and M2K? When does shielding on a platform really pay off?

 

[Shaya]

Well, shielding on a platform pays off when
platform dropping,
rolling,
jumping,
dashing,
nade pulling
are all punishable by marths ever so lovely uair or nair.

Hence the term Platform Pressure,
as the use of those moves Pressure your opponent, allowing the use of Opportunistic at best moves.

 

[Lord Chair]

Well, shielding on a platform pays off when
platform dropping,
rolling,
jumping,
dashing,
nade pulling
are all punishable by marths ever so lovely uair or nair.

Hence the term Platform Pressure,
as the use of those moves Pressure your opponent, allowing the use of Opportunistic at best moves.

Though really, why would you do something that is not guaranteed to work if all the other options Snake has (which can all be performed OoS) are a guaranteed punish? In fact, why would Snake shield if he knows that once he does ANYTHING OoS he'll get punished?

There's no reason for Snake to put himself in such a position.

 

[Albert.]

You're right, I should've used Marth guaranteed unavoidable kill moves, instead of innovative kill set-ups. What was I thinking?!

oh wait . . .

BTW, I killed my sparring partner with this YESTERDAY. Someone who knows my entire style very well.

Do you even understand how good this is as a mix-up. Your opponent either

A) drops their shield and dies

OR

B) stays in shield and risks you not swinging hit 4, and therefore receives additional platform pressure, leading to death.

OK Pierce, I'm stupid, and you're our Marth SBR representative and thus endowed with a far superior mind and intelligence.

But you are ignoring what I said.

Those two options you outlined are NOT the only ones. If they know about this trick (which they soon will if you start justttt destroyinggg everybody with it all the time) they will figure out how to counter it... why wouldn't they just jump out? Why would they just sit there?

Nair is safer.

 

[Lord Chair]

OK Pierce, I'm stupid, and you're our Marth SBR representative and thus endowed with a far superior mind and intelligence.

But you are ignoring what I said.

Those two options you outlined are NOT the only ones. If they know about this trick (which they soon will if you start justttt destroyinggg everybody with it all the time) they will figure out how to counter it... why wouldn't they just jump out? Why would they just sit there?

Nair is safer.

Then again, you have no comment on the earlier comments give to explain why nair is, in fact, inferior since clearly (according to Shaya) you can punish everything reflexively.

 

[Albert.]

Then again, you have no comment on the earlier comments give to explain why nair is, in fact, inferior since clearly (according to Shaya) you can punish everything reflexively.

I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Pierce7d]

OK Pierce, I'm stupid, and you're our Marth SBR representative and thus endowed with a far superior mind and intelligence.

But you are ignoring what I said.

Those two options you outlined are NOT the only ones. If they know about this trick (which they soon will if you start justttt destroyinggg everybody with it all the time) they will figure out how to counter it... why wouldn't they just jump out? Why would they just sit there?

Nair is safer.

. . . I'm done with this conversation. I did not try to pull rank. I simply tried to come in here and bestow knowledge and experience by teaching you a viable mix-up to your arsenal, which I did not recommend you spam, or even use every match, but suggested you try to experiment with as a mindgame, and gave examples where it worked in the past on other good players, and players who know my style alike. You are sarcastic, you overexaggerate, and your discussion habits are disgusting. Furthermore, you are relatively bad at theory craft if I'm to take this as an example of your normal behavior. YOU then mocked me and discarded my advice as gimmick.

I will say this. If you ALWAYS choose the "apparent best" or "blatantly safest" options with Marth, then you WILL LOSE. Marth is pretty safe, but he is designed to capitalize in the risk vs reward system like many character in this game. I was once of your mindset, but have learned otherwise. You cannot win a match with only dtilt and Fair, I assure you. Additionally, DB4 against an opponent on a platform is not extremely unsafe considering it can result in a relatively low percent K.O.. It can only be punished by platform dropped aerials, and since it's an unexpected mix-up, which CAN BE CANCELLED, it's not as unsafe as it appears on first glance, ESPECIALLY because it may PUSH YOUR OPPONENT OFF THE PLATFORM IF THEY SHIELD IT, RESULTING IN A TECH CHASE OR SMASH ATTACK.

If your mindset is clearly that rigid, I recommend playing Falco. This is a character who does extremely well by playing 100% safe options only all the time, even though I don't feel that is the most efficient style for him. That is all. Now I remember why I stopped visiting the Marth boards.

 

[∫unk]

i just realized you guys are arguing about nothing

 

[KillL0ck]

Pierce is pretty much right lol on the whole mix-up thing. Marth can be extremely predictable.


Also depending on the character being dropped off of a platform from shield pressure, you can just cancel your tumble with an attack. Good for snake cause you just Bair and it's hella legit lol

 

[Albert.]

. . . I'm done with this conversation. I did not try to pull rank. I simply tried to come in here and bestow knowledge and experience by teaching you a viable mix-up to your arsenal, which I did not recommend you spam, or even use every match, but suggested you try to experiment with as a mindgame, and gave examples where it worked in the past on other good players, and players who know my style alike. You are sarcastic, you overexaggerate, and your discussion habits are disgusting. Furthermore, you are relatively bad at theory craft if I'm to take this as an example of your normal behavior. YOU then mocked me and discarded my advice as gimmick.

I will say this. If you ALWAYS choose the "apparent best" or "blatantly safest" options with Marth, then you WILL LOSE. Marth is pretty safe, but he is designed to capitalize in the risk vs reward system like many character in this game. I was once of your mindset, but have learned otherwise. You cannot win a match with only dtilt and Fair, I assure you. Additionally, DB4 against an opponent on a platform is not extremely unsafe considering it can result in a relatively low percent K.O.. It can only be punished by platform dropped aerials, and since it's an unexpected mix-up, which CAN BE CANCELLED, it's not as unsafe as it appears on first glance, ESPECIALLY because it may PUSH YOUR OPPONENT OFF THE PLATFORM IF THEY SHIELD IT, RESULTING IN A TECH CHASE OR SMASH ATTACK.

If your mindset is clearly that rigid, I recommend playing Falco. This is a character who does extremely well by playing 100% safe options only all the time, even though I don't feel that is the most efficient style for him. That is all. Now I remember why I stopped visiting the Marth boards.

Wow at how angry and irritated you get over nothing. Getting so easily "poked" and coerced into such a frenzy surely must get you punished in-game. Why don't you chill out and smoke a blunt? Maybe relaxing a little bit more might help keep you calm. I bet you get baited by Pit's arrows and TL shenanigans allll the time. Your pretentious, preening, pomposity and preposterous-ness is so funny! What's funny though your posts are ****ing good and now hilarious considering how mad you got.


HEY DUDE I LOVE Your GUIDES AND POSTSS LOLLLLL

I'M JUST ****ING WITH YOU FOR TEH LOLs obv.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I hear that Marth can aim his up b sorta like how squirtle and mario can, is it true?

 

[Shadowserpant]

I hear that Marth can aim his up b sorta like how squirtle and mario can, is it true?

Yeah. Hold diagonal forward while you Up B and he'll go forward more.


A few more questions:
What is auto-cancelling?

How do you know when a character will be ground release or air released from a grab? Can it be controlled? Which is better? What are the follow up options?

 

[Lord Chair]

i just realized you guys are arguing about nothing

It is funny because it is true.

 

[theeboredone]

Sorry that I didn't phrase my question all that well, here's a better statement.

I was playing a friend who uses Marth. I sent him off stage and like any Marth, he would use his Up+B move to grab the edge. I know the move has invincibility frames for a certain period of time, so I was wondering how, what I'm about to explain happened.

Out of for the sake of messing around, I did Ike's D-tilt, and it connected against Marth before he could grab the edge. It spiked him, and left both of us at a total wtf. Didn't bother redoing it since I had a tourny match soon after.

In any case, I was wondering if he simply mistimed his Up+B, or was there another factor going into this? Explain?

 

[Rubberbandman]

Yeah. Hold diagonal forward while you Up B and he'll go forward more.


A few more questions:
What is auto-cancelling?

How do you know when a character will be ground release or air released from a grab? Can it be controlled? Which is better? What are the follow up options?

For the ground release/ air release, if the character is a certain height (like marth) they can cause the opponent to release in the air. It is easily controlled because all you have to do is not pummel before they are released.

In other words, pummel when released = ground; no pummel when released = air

Ask pierce about follow ups, hes the genius.

Autocancelling - when you use an attack in the air and land while that attack is still out, then it will automatically cancel out and reset your position; an example is Wolf's Uair, try short hopping that and follow up with an attack, its pretty fun.

EDIT @ theeboredone

Marth's Up B has Invicibility frames from frames 1-5, it he happened to be a little lower of farther from the ledge before he grabbed it, he would still be vunerable for a short period of time. I think thats what happened.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Yeah. Hold diagonal forward while you Up B and he'll go forward more.


A few more questions:
What is auto-cancelling?

How do you know when a character will be ground release or air released from a grab? Can it be controlled? Which is better? What are the follow up options?

I jacked this from the Link Q&A Thread.

grabs and characters can be categorized into two categories: "short" and "tall."
marth's grab is "tall." (note the height at which he holds his opponents)
link's grab is "short." (note the height at which he holds his opponents)

when a "short" character (e.g. wario) is grabbed by a character with a "tall" grab (e.g. marth), marth is guaranteed an air release if wario is released when marth is not pummeling (if marth is pummeling then wario is ground released)
when a "short" character (e.g. wario) is grabbed by a character with a "short" grab (e.g. link), link is guaranteed an air release if two conditions are met: link is not pummeling and wario is inputting "up" or "jump" upon release, otherwise ground release

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Any tips on how to be a better tipper? And when my opponent is recovering what should I do? Go off the edge and try to gimp him or spam dtilt?

 

[light_zion943]

need help

... every1 says i shuld use gamecube controller but i use classic controller wat is better 2 use for marth

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

... every1 says i shuld use gamecube controller but i use classic controller wat is better 2 use for marth

I preffer the GC controller. I only liked the classic cause I could do SHDL easily with Falco, but now I mastered it with the GC.

 

[Albert.]

... every1 says i shuld use gamecube controller but i use classic controller wat is better 2 use for marth

You should use what feels most comfortable for you.

One of the top 5 Snake players uses WiiMote + Nunchuck.

You can customize your controls and stuff, whichever you do use.

 

[Anonymous Brawler]

Is there any Marth guide? I can't find any.

^ lol 1337 posts

 

[Rad]

How do I recover from the ledge against Wolf?

Thank you.

 

[Grimmspada]

I preffer the GC controller. I only liked the classic cause I could do SHDL easily with Falco, but now I mastered it with the GC.

Almost everyone uses the GC controller lol, I wanted to change to classic controller long time ago, but changed my mind. =O hehe