Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[InterimOfZeal]

ITT: lower-tier players troll people that actually know what they're talking about

Anywho, what all options does Marth get off a grab? Is there a thread for this?

I found this thread

http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=120552

But I dunno how much of that info is true or not.

EDIT: Figured I'd actually address stuff, too.

Though really, why would you do something that is not guaranteed to work if all the other options Snake has (which can all be performed OoS) are a guaranteed punish? In fact, why would Snake shield if he knows that once he does ANYTHING OoS he'll get punished?

There's no reason for Snake to put himself in such a position.

Snake wouldn't put himself in that position if he were perfect. But players aren't, and everyone can be worked into a corner.

He shields cuz nair/uair ****, and he doesn't like getting *****. From a shield, if he guesses right, he can get away via jumping/well placed nade drops>getting outta there/other random stuff.

If Snake is above Marth, he's at disadvantage. When you're at disadvantage, you're likely to get punished if your opponent knows what's up. That's where mix-ups come in.

Buuuuuuuuut I might be misunderstanding the question. That and I have very limited Marth experience. Just came back to Brawl from Melee recently cuz Marth in SSBB is like Roy on steroids.

And Roy is, in fact, mah boi.

 

[Albert.]

itt: Lower-tier Players Troll People That Actually Know What They're Talking About

Yessssssss

 

[Pr0phetic]

How do I recover from the ledge against Wolf?

Thank you.

Recover low, and use DB and your DJ to ensure you get the ledge.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yessssssss

I almost like this guy already.

Cept your name is pink. Ew.

 

[Rad]

Recover low, and use DB and your DJ to ensure you get the ledge.

Getting to the ledge isn't the problem lol - it's the getting punished every time I try and get back on stage. It seems that every way I try to mix it up ends in punishment. It's possible that I'm predictable, and more than likely it's just me sucking, but if I can get some advice it would be sweet.

B-air = pain.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Getting to the ledge isn't the problem lol - it's the getting punished every time I try and get back on stage. It seems that every way I try to mix it up ends in punishment. It's possible that I'm predictable, and more than likely it's just me sucking, but if I can get some advice it would be sweet.

B-air = pain.

Well all I can tell you is stop being predictabe honestly. If Bair is hitting you then that means your doing too many ledgehops. Try ledghehop AD, roll onto stage (depending on spacing), or regular getup --> UpB. Just keep trying to mix up your options.

 

[GPEternity]

ok so i was using MK against ness on delfino. on the section with the rooftops ness misses a tech near the little wall and i start dtilting him against it, and after about 8 pokes he fsmashes me in between dtilts. my question is how does a ness being dtilted on the ground suddenly stand up and fsmash? and since mk has a faster dtilt, does that mean marth's dtilt lock against the wall can also be attacked out of?

 

[Pr0phetic]

ok so i was using MK against ness on delfino. on the section with the rooftops ness misses a tech near the little wall and i start dtilting him against it, and after about 8 pokes he fsmashes me in between dtilts. my question is how does a ness being dtilted on the ground suddenly stand up and fsmash? and since mk has a faster dtilt, does that mean marth's dtilt lock against the wall can also be attacked out of?

Depends on your spacing honestly. Dtilt has two hit strengths in the long run, tipped and untipped. If you tip them, the knockback is great, causing them to bounce more and the ability to DI out.

 

[GPEternity]

i don't mean DI out, that i know they can do. what i mean is are there conditions that would allow them to recover and throw out a smash before the next tilt hit them.

 

[Rad]

Well all I can tell you is stop being predictabe honestly. If Bair is hitting you then that means your doing too many ledgehops. Try ledghehop AD, roll onto stage (depending on spacing), or regular getup --> UpB. Just keep trying to mix up your options.

Thanks. I have not been using Ledgehop DS, get-up DS, ledge hop AD, or ledge jump AD :$. I'll try them out. (I know you didn't suggest two of those)

---

New question sorry,

Do we have down throw shenanigans on DDD? I was mucking around, and it seemed similar to the falco 0-51% thing.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Thanks. I have not been using Ledgehop DS, get-up DS, ledge hop AD, or ledge jump AD :$. I'll try them out. (I know you didn't suggest two of those)

---

New question sorry,

Do we have down throw shenanigans on DDD? I was mucking around, and it seemed similar to the falco 0-51% thing.

I'm pretty sure that we can't true combo D-Throws against D3. It would be a decent tech chase, though.

 

[GPEternity]

3 Fthrow -> fsmash for about 0-31. but if you always fthrow them you might be able to mindgame a dthrow -> fsmash

 

[ChibixD]

Whats the best option against someone who likes to cross up your shield with an aerial?

What to do when a Snake is eating your shield with the first hit of ftilt?

What to do vs Snake DACUS when unpredictable, its possible to punish with reaction?

Whats the best option when a Snake is trying to utilt you when you are on de ledge?

What is the best aerial out of shield?

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Whats the best option against someone who likes to cross up your shield with an aerial?

What to do when a Snake is eating your shield with the first hit of ftilt?

What to do vs Snake DACUS when unpredictable, its possible to punish with reaction?

Whats the best option when a Snake is trying to utilt you when you are on de ledge?

I'm pretty new with Marf, so my advice will prolly be upgraded by someone in a post or two, buut my ideas:

Up-B OoS, Roll/Jump outta there (careful, might be looking to tech-chase), shieldgrab maaaybe? dunno if that works.

Just block it if you're unsure. You can beat it with a lot of moves. I kinda use nair zoning to discourage snakedashing. If he's gonna end up close to you, block, DB punish.

Wait it out? I dunno for this. Maybe ledgejump upb, if you're desperate.

Prolly terrible advice, so I'm looking forward to see what people do in these situations, soz mah marfs can levelup. :D :D :D

 

[GPEternity]

generally any oos option you have can be used provided they use an aerial with sufficient lag and your reaction is quick enough, DS, usmash, uair, bair, nair.

I believe marth can power shield into dsmash snakes ftilt, ds if they don't space it.

i think your only bet is to mix up your recovery option and timing, maybe try to read when he'll throw the utilt out and roll/ledgejump when hes in lag. ledgehop counter will work once in a while but if you get read you'er dead. though the risk might be worth it if the snake can potentially die from eating his own utilt returned in sword form.

 

[321BOOM]

Whats the best option against someone who likes to cross up your shield with an aerial?
Up-b OOS or DB.

What to do when a Snake is eating your shield with the first hit of ftilt?
If he's about to kill the shield, get out.
If you're in there with a full shield, take the hit and DB.

What to do vs Snake DACUS when unpredictable, its possible to punish with reaction?
When it's unpredictable? lol. Well seeing as there's so little time to react, shield/spotdodge and punish with DB or bair.

Whats the best option when a Snake is trying to utilt you when you are on de ledge?
I wouldn't know the best option. Ledgehop AD doesn't work.
I would try a SH from ledge to Counter. It's got a great chance of hitting cus of the broken utilt hitbox.

What is the best aerial out of shield?
Fair.

I hope I helped, somewhat. Take note, my experience with Snake is pretty small so I might be wrong.

 

[ChibixD]

Thanks, my experience vs Snake is BIGG, but I have problem vs him in Final destination...

I was thinking now, don't punish dacus with DB, punish with fair or bair, DB is to risky beacause the mortar

 

[Pierce7d]

Whats the best option against someone who likes to cross up your shield with an aerial?

I greatly like Dair. It covers both sides of you, and sets your opponent to get either Baired, or forces an airdodge, if tippered, which is not hard to do.

What to do when a Snake is eating your shield with the first hit of ftilt?

This trap is amazing. Roll away.

What to do vs Snake DACUS when unpredictable, its possible to punish with reaction?

Depends on your reaction, and the spacing. If you expect it, you have many options to beat it. Simply hit it with any attack, counter, or shield backwards and grab before Usmash comes out. Reverse UpB OOS should work on reaction.

Whats the best option when a Snake is trying to utilt you when you are on de ledge?

Be patient, and ledgehop Fair unpredictably.

What is the best aerial out of shield?

Depends who and what hit your shield, where. For the most part, Fair is fine.

Answers in bold.

 

[Rad]

It feels like I flood this thread with similar questions for all attacks that aren't d-tilt >_> It's sometimes hard to get a grasp/understanding of everything I see in vids / from players.

What are the uses for B-air? I know it's good for off-stage kills, but I see it used to attack from below. I don't really understand why. Is its weird angle safe(r than U-air) or something? I've seen B-air approaches, from SHs mainly, and retreating B-air (OoS) as well.

I only know B-air as a KO move, but I'm thinking that could be plain wrong.

Thanks in advance. (D-air, F-tilt, and now B-air. I don't think there are any other weird moves that need explaining ^_^)

 

[Pierce7d]

Take a look at this:

http://www.smashboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9475448

 

[xKirin__]

i have no idea what frame data is.. care to explain please? thx

 

[Pr0phetic]

i have no idea what frame data is.. care to explain please? thx

Frames are a measure of time within a video game, and how we identify when actions occur in said game. In Brawl, a frame is 1/60 of a second, so Brawl runs at 60 FPS.

Frame Data is the specific measurement of actions of characters throught the game, and indicates the amount of time they take before another action can be executed (or interrupted, but don't worry about IASA yet) and many other things.

 

[MysteryTigerTeen]

Ok I'm not sure if this belongs here or not..... but it is a question. Anyway I'm a Marth mainer and I'm looking for someone who is good with Marth and is willing to train me and share tips. I'm also an eager learner so I will practice my *** off to become better. I'm planning on entering local tournments. I'm not a bad Marth at all, just want to get alittle better before I go offline.

Please PM me, incase I forget to come here. Thank you

 

[Player-3]

Pierce, i remember you saying something about ftilt for platform pressuring?

Why? (curious)

 

[GPEternity]

oh my god i love ftilt for platform pressure now! its not as useful for higher platforms but on stages like bf its awesome. it functions almost the same way but it reaches out in front of you so you can catch people without having to be directly under them, and it sends them in a horizontal trajectory instead of up so you can set up edgeguarding!

 

[321BOOM]

Take a look at this:

http://www.smashboards.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=9475448

Thanks for this. It was pretty helpful.

Question, is bair a better choice for juggling characters like MK & DDD who have real good dairs?

 

[Looticforgothispassword]

pictochat, side B, glitches happen, can you tell me what causes it?

 

[Suntan Luigi]

I was wondering, sometimes I like to short-hop dancing blade OoS, especially when the opponent is behind me. Is this any good, or is it better just to shield drop to DB?

 

[Pr0phetic]

I was wondering, sometimes I like to short-hop dancing blade OoS, especially when the opponent is behind me. Is this any good, or is it better just to shield drop to DB?

it can be a mixup, but shieldrop DB is better, and safer.

 

[Xisin]

Thanks for this. It was pretty helpful.

Question, is bair a better choice for juggling characters like MK & DDD who have real good dairs?

if you're using bair to juggle then you're trying to avoid nasty dairs, marth's u-air actualyl outranges mks dair vertically and you can jugle mk with it, bair is nice for dedede, and since it's usually fresh you might get a kill with it if you connect with the tip.

i like using counter shenanigans against a dedede droppinga dair but i wouldnt reccomend that to too many people >_> counter mixed with up air works nice for GW's key too.

 

[Suntan Luigi]

it can be a mixup, but shieldrop DB is better, and safer.

Alright then, thanks for the response. The only reason I used it was because I thought it was faster, but I guess not.

 

[321BOOM]

if you're using bair to juggle then you're trying to avoid nasty dairs, marth's u-air actualyl outranges mks dair vertically and you can jugle mk with it, bair is nice for dedede, and since it's usually fresh you might get a kill with it if you connect with the tip.

i like using counter shenanigans against a dedede droppinga dair but i wouldnt reccomend that to too many people >_> counter mixed with up air works nice for GW's key too.

Ok thank youu.

 

[Almo]

A few things.

are there any "tricks" i can use vs. diddy to make the MU easier?

also on diddy, is using the bananas against him more efficient or throwing them to the other side of the stage/off stage away from him a better option?

what's the best neutral to play IC's on (assuming Lylat is a neutral and not PS1)?

i've seen Mr-R do it vs. Kaos (don't remember how old the videos are), but he does a SH DB, then a delayed or fast falled nair so only the first hit connects, then gets a free upsmash. is this a decent mix-up after grab releasing an MK assuming they assume it will be a tippered Fair so they just DI and don't react to side B? or am i being too analytical? lol

i also did it online vs. vex (wifi fails i know) but i didn't fast fall the nair, so technically the hit from DB and both hits of nair was 3 hits in a SH and he seemed to drop his shield on the 3rd hit. haven't practiced this yet offline vs. anyone, but wondering if it could throw them off guard?

 

[Megavitamins]

Me trying to be helpful lol

A few things.

are there any "tricks" i can use vs. diddy to make the MU easier?

Personally, if I have a banana I like to full hop -> throw said banana directly down On diddy, and space a fair after it...

also on diddy, is using the bananas against him more efficient or throwing them to the other side of the stage/off stage away from him a better option?

Probably best bet is to throw it away, they're alot better with them than you are most likely.

what's the best neutral to play IC's on (assuming Lylat is a neutral and not PS1)?

Your best bet is obviously to strike FD first, then try for BF, Lylat, and then Yoshis / SV (id go SV, but some Marth mains are really good on YI, I Just hate it personally. Just something else, Marth can air camp ICs because of the property of DB1, where it raises you after an ascending jump. Just mix it up / land on platforms and be smart, and itll be extremely difficult to get grabbed.

i've seen Mr-R do it vs. Kaos (don't remember how old the videos are), but he does a SH DB, then a delayed or fast falled nair so only the first hit connects, then gets a free upsmash. is this a decent mix-up after grab releasing an MK assuming they assume it will be a tippered Fair so they just DI and don't react to side B? or am i being too analytical? lol

Uh... it doesn't work, unless you have the stun jacket on the side-b. Dont go for it, too risky & high chance of not working. If your looking for the kill, just go for up-b (make sure its fresh)

i also did it online vs. vex (wifi fails i know) but i didn't fast fall the nair, so technically the hit from DB and both hits of nair was 3 hits in a SH and he seemed to drop his shield on the 3rd hit. haven't practiced this yet offline vs. anyone, but wondering if it could throw them off guard?

yeah, I figured this out too... It could work as a good mixup, Idk, never really implemented it

10marthmains

Alot of this is personal preference, hope it helps.

 

[Shaya]

The db1 nair thing is like a true combo at like a certain hitbox of db1 at around 120% or 400% normally dawg.
400%!
Thats pretty helpful against Snake, because he never dies :3

 

[Albert.]

The db1 nair thing is like a true combo at like a certain hitbox of db1 at around 120% or 400% normally dawg.
400%!
Thats pretty helpful against Snake, because he never dies :3

xD xD xD SERIOUSLY LOL

Where does fresh, DI'd Uthrow kill Snake? 250? LOL

 

[Pr0phetic]

A few things.

are there any "tricks" i can use vs. diddy to make the MU easier?

also on diddy, is using the bananas against him more efficient or throwing them to the other side of the stage/off stage away from him a better option?

what's the best neutral to play IC's on (assuming Lylat is a neutral and not PS1)?

i've seen Mr-R do it vs. Kaos (don't remember how old the videos are), but he does a SH DB, then a delayed or fast falled nair so only the first hit connects, then gets a free upsmash. is this a decent mix-up after grab releasing an MK assuming they assume it will be a tippered Fair so they just DI and don't react to side B? or am i being too analytical? lol

i also did it online vs. vex (wifi fails i know) but i didn't fast fall the nair, so technically the hit from DB and both hits of nair was 3 hits in a SH and he seemed to drop his shield on the 3rd hit. haven't practiced this yet offline vs. anyone, but wondering if it could throw them off guard?

Generally you wanna learn to glide toss back and forward efficiently. With a banana in hand and his long glide toss, Marth could glide toss into a few moves (DB, Fsmash, Dsmash, etc.) Sometimes ridding a banana though is better, as it kills his setup and gives back yoru advantage on the ground.

BF or Lylat.

 

[Lord Chair]

xD xD xD SERIOUSLY LOL

Where does fresh, DI'd Uthrow kill Snake? 250? LOL

Later than that. Uthrow is only viable against chars with G&W-like weight (G&W dies at 173%).

I've seen Shaya try to kill Tedeth's Wolf with it at 220, failing miserably. I suppose Snake'll live till 260%.

 

[Almo]

that does help and thanks guys.

but 120% shaya? interesting.

Also i've upthrow killed like 4 people in tournament. too much fun.

 

[Player-3]

the most important thing about the diddy mu

is not letting him pull bananas, and giving him as much hell as you can while he is on the ledge