Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Kirk]

Uses of Quickdraw(Stalling, punishment, etc.).
Recovery tactics(When to Aether, when to QD, etc.).
Ike-specific DI/SDI(Includes "Momentum Canceling" tactics).
Edgeguarding tactics(includes Walk-off Dair).
Grab/Throw game(Bthrow->Dash attack , Dthrow/Uthrow --> Follow-up , etc.)
Stage-specific strategys(Areas to "camp," do this here, don't do this here, etc.)
Fsmash. When the **** do you use it?

Umm...

Silly Boost Item Toss...

Stuff?

 

[san.]

More emphasis on how to space/zone and control the stage with aerials/whatever.

What NOT to do with spacing (ex on shields?)

Nair uses (I think this is somewhat underdeveloped on many Ikes)

I'm not sure about this last one, but ways around shields? I don't know, I just hear all the time how shield ***** Ike in general, and maybe we should try touching a bit here in the vid. (may go with your buffered aerials, but w/e haha)

 

[Kimchi]

I'll help you with it Rykoshet. Um, Jab followups, using jumps conservatively, DACIT, Ike's offstage game, etc.
I have a question though. How effectively can Ike plank? I don't really want to incorporate planking into my game ever, but during tournament matches that really count, planking might have to be an option. Ike has his Uair and he can Aether camp, but asides from that, is he relatively good at planking?

 

[Teh Brettster]

How about uses of ALL specials as well... as opposed to only QD?

EDIT: Kimchi, there is also that funky lookin' ledge stall with QD.. well, at least, on Battlefield and Smashville. And probably some others I'm too lazy to think about.

 

[Chis]

Options through jab cancelling? And the jab cancels you can do to heavy/light characters? Also how to punish people DIing your jabs?

 

[san.]

I have a question though. How effectively can Ike plank? I don't really want to incorporate planking into my game ever, but during tournament matches that really count, planking might have to be an option. Ike has his Uair and he can Aether camp, but asides from that, is he relatively good at planking?

I think it's much more useful in doubles matches to camp the ledge.


The only thing that's annoying is that Ike can only aether 5 to 6 times in a row until it won't let him aether again. Not sure if it gets reset if you do a simple ledge release+jump, though (probably not).

I think against characters without anti-planking projectiles or massive disjointed hitboxes, Ike does pretty ok. I guess it's pretty much what you said. Fair can push some opponents away, up air can hopefully shield poke, and you can try aether dragging people up with reverse aether, or use regular aether to get people farther away. The only trick is not to get hit out of aether. You can hold left and right to slightly move aether (harder when you're reversing it) so you can try to avoid some people's counterattacks. Reverse aether on some stages such as FD, you can aether drag and not have to aether above the ledge.

I admit that I do this, usually after I kill someone, or doubles turns into a 2vs1.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Grab Releases.
How to use Counter without looking like an idiot.
Waterspiking

 

[metroid1117]

I have a question though. How effectively can Ike plank? I don't really want to incorporate planking into my game ever, but during tournament matches that really count, planking might have to be an option. Ike has his Uair and he can Aether camp, but asides from that, is he relatively good at planking?

Ike can plank surprisingly okay with reverse QD; he can go about halfway down Battlefield's slope and still grab the edge, which leaves you pretty much invulnerable to any attack (you're still vulnerable to the simple edgehog though). Just edgehopping QD towards the stage is also good if you can get them before they're close enough to edgehog; if they're on the edge of the stage, you'll still hit them and then drop down to the edge.

 

[Marauder]

I'll help you with it Rykoshet. Um, Jab followups, using jumps conservatively, DACIT, Ike's offstage game, etc.
I have a question though. How effectively can Ike plank? I don't really want to incorporate planking into my game ever, but during tournament matches that really count, planking might have to be an option. Ike has his Uair and he can Aether camp, but asides from that, is he relatively good at planking?

Planking 101.

@Ryko - Momentum cancelling and jab related shenanigans. Also walkoff dair, nairing wisely. I see far too many people Nairing into shields asking to be grabbed.

 

[Kimchi]

Ike can plank surprisingly okay with reverse QD; he can go about halfway down Battlefield's slope and still grab the edge, which leaves you pretty much invulnerable to any attack (you're still vulnerable to the simple edgehog though). Just edgehopping QD towards the stage is also good if you can get them before they're close enough to edgehog; if they're on the edge of the stage, you'll still hit them and then drop down to the edge.

I don't know though, Reverse QD is quite risky against characters with excellent Dtilts like MK and Marth that go through the stage and can hit Ike when he's reverse QDing. I was just thinking of some wacky options when I said planking. For example, against MK, I was thinking when you're planking against him, he's obviously going to try to attack you while you're planking because of his excellent recovery options that'll save him. When he comes in to try to attack, I was thinking, Ike could use ledgehop Counter and MK could be stagespiked. Doesn't seem too realistic, but I was thinking it could probably be effective. Other planking ideas I though of was a counter stall in the air and then aethering back to the ledge.

 

[Teh Brettster]

I don't know though, Reverse QD is quite risky against characters with excellent Dtilts like MK and Marth that go through the stage and can hit Ike when he's reverse QDing. I was just thinking of some wacky options when I said planking. For example, against MK, I was thinking when you're planking against him, he's obviously going to try to attack you while you're planking because of his excellent recovery options that'll save him. When he comes in to try to attack, I was thinking, Ike could use ledgehop Counter and MK could be stagespiked. Doesn't seem too realistic, but I was thinking it could probably be effective. Other planking ideas I though of was a counter stall in the air and then aethering back to the ledge.

Haha, yeah, that seems pretty wacky and unrealistic, yet possible. And the counter stall... ehhh, I think it's just leaving yourself open at -least- as much as other tactics... I mean, I haven't tried it. It just seems like that would be the case.

 

[metroid1117]

I don't know though, Reverse QD is quite risky against characters with excellent Dtilts like MK and Marth that go through the stage and can hit Ike when he's reverse QDing.

I don't think you'd be able to to get hit while reverse QD'ing at the edge; it should look almost like when Jigglypuff planks with Pound if you do it properly (the edgegrab is a little higher for Ike though). You can certainly get edgehogged, but I don't really see how MK or Marth would be able to hit you unless you don't receive invincibility frames during the edgegrab animation.

When he comes in to try to attack, I was thinking, Ike could use ledgehop Counter and MK could be stagespiked. Doesn't seem too realistic, but I was thinking it could probably be effective. Other planking ideas I though of was a counter stall in the air and then aethering back to the ledge.

I tried this a while ago when I thought of Counter-stagespiking G&W's up+B; apparently, you can't Counter MK's up+B, whether grounded or in the air. I might have screwed up with the testing or wasn't in the right position since I was doing it alone, but I never got Ike's Counter to hit MK.

Also, Counter-stalling can be risky; characters like Falco would probably be able to fastfall down and then double-jump with a BAir to stagespike you after Counter, while MK would just be able to DAir you without doing anything too fancy.

 

[Palpi]

I do it all the time for show (reverse QD)

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I don't think you'd be able to to get hit while reverse QD'ing at the edge; it should look almost like when Jigglypuff planks with Pound if you do it properly (the edgegrab is a little higher for Ike though). You can certainly get edgehogged, but I don't really see how MK or Marth would be able to hit you unless you don't receive invincibility frames during the edgegrab animation.

You lose the invincibility once you let go of the ledge.

I tried this a while ago when I thought of Counter-stagespiking G&W's up+B; apparently, you can't Counter MK's up+B, whether grounded or in the air. I might have screwed up with the testing or wasn't in the right position since I was doing it alone, but I never got Ike's Counter to hit MK.

Also, Counter-stalling can be risky; characters like Falco would probably be able to fastfall down and then double-jump with a BAir to stagespike you after Counter, while MK would just be able to DAir you without doing anything too fancy.

You can counter it he just goes right through it, like when you counter tornado.


Honestly Ike is the reason planking shouldn't be banned. It isn't broken with everyone it will just make some match ups like falco and DDD easier. Olimar to maybe lol.

 

[Kimchi]

I don't think you'd be able to to get hit while reverse QD'ing at the edge; it should look almost like when Jigglypuff planks with Pound if you do it properly (the edgegrab is a little higher for Ike though). You can certainly get edgehogged, but I don't really see how MK or Marth would be able to hit you unless you don't receive invincibility frames during the edgegrab animation.

Are you talking about stages like Final Destination where if you reverse QD too fast, you fall to your death or stages like Battlefield where the curvature of the ledge allows Ike to drop down a little and then reverse QD right back onto the edge? Because on Battlefield, Marth and MK can both Dtilt Ike. I don't know how to explain it, but their Dtilt goes through the stage or something. I don't know, I'll test it tomorrow.

I tried this a while ago when I thought of Counter-stagespiking G&W's up+B; apparently, you can't Counter MK's up+B, whether grounded or in the air. I might have screwed up with the testing or wasn't in the right position since I was doing it alone, but I never got Ike's Counter to hit MK.

Well again, it depends what the MK does. If MK throws out any other aerial besides Shuttle Loop and you ledge-hop counter it, I'm pretty sure the MK will get stage-spiked. You're right about Counter not hitting MK though. Sad that it doesn't affect Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop, otherwise we'd have a hell of an easier time with the matchup :[.

Also, Counter-stalling can be risky; characters like Falco would probably be able to fastfall down and then double-jump with a BAir to stagespike you after Counter, while MK would just be able to DAir you without doing anything too fancy.

You're definitely right about counter-stalling being risky. I meant like using counter-stalling as a tool to bring your opponent in and then score free hits with Aether then continue planking as usual. You wouldn't counter stall if your opponent is relatively close to the edge, but if he's a decent distance away from the edge, I could see counter stalling as a good trap to bait your opponent in and use it as an opportunity to Aether your opponent and seize your chance to get back onto the stage and continue your attack. Of course, the smarter players will expect this :/. I could definitely see some use for counter-stalling though for planking. It is risky though against the faster characters.

Also, what do you guys think of using a ledgehop get back on the stage Bair as an edgeguarding tool? I don't mean just getting off the edge and Bairing your opponent while you're offstage, but I mean getting back onto the stage while Bairing at the same time. I could see a use for it against MKs who are glide happy and like to glide back onto the stage, Warios who will go above you when they use their motorcycle to recover or their UpB which doesn't sweetspot the ledge while you're holding onto the ledge as well as Marths who will Dolphin Slash onto the stage when you're holding onto the ledge. The list goes on.

 

[Marauder]

What do you guys think of Sheik's New Infinite?

 

[Jinkwai]

@Rykoshet- Don't forget the auto-canceled aerials. You know what would be a good idea? Doing a video about the article you did on punishing/bad habits. Just make it specific to Ike.

@Marauder- Good for them, I guess... '>.>

 

[kamimari36]

Well, Shiek's "Infinite" is apparently hard to land on Ike, since he's so tall.
Yay?

 

[Palpi]

It is very impractical.

 

[yellowroy]

What are good maps to play MK's in, also bans?

 

[Palpi]

Rainbow cruise and Delfino are good MK stages.

 

[yellowroy]

What about cps, and doesn't Ike do real good on delphino?

 

[Palpi]

Not that good. Not better than MK. Other than the water spikes Metaknight will have advantage. MK doesn't have bad stages.

 

[yellowroy]

Lol yeah, I'l just use FD.

 

[Palpi]

Battlefield is one of Ike's better stages. You can bair ***** when they are on platforms. And platforms sometimes get in the way of glides and uair combos for metaknight, but I still like battlefield as MK.

 

[Marauder]

What happened to Marth Palpi lol?

 

[Palpi]

Don't look at my main char lol. I change weekly. Snake's head looks cool. My marth is alright, but his strings are all the same and it gets boring. I have always played ike,marth,metaknight,snake, and falco but over the last few weeks I have been going about seeing which one is best.

 

[Marauder]

Lol I ain't judging you man. Personally, I've been thinking of trying out some new people. I'm already maining Ike and Marth. I second Toon Link, but I've been planning on seeing how Snake, Wolf and Lucario are. Maybe Lucas too but thats just for lulz.

 

[metroid1117]

Has anyone seen this video yet? It's a video of an Ike user from Japan (supposedly the best in Japan according to one of the comments, but I'm really not sure how reliable of a source he is). I found it interesting how he never used Boost Tossing against the Diddy; it either means that they don't know about it or the player doesn't like to use it. What I found most interesting, however, was his use of grabs; pivot grabbing seemed like a big part of his game. What do you guys think about this?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Very nice Ike there.

And using pivot grab a lot makes sense in a way. The only moves Ike has that are faster are standing grab, jab, and bair. >_> And pivot grab has more range at the price of 2 more frames before the grab connects.

As for the DACIT thing: I don't think it would have worked very well with his playing style.

 

[Palpi]

That diddy is fairly weak. Thought the pivot grabs looked cool, he could have had all of the pivot grabs with normal or dash grabs apart from the first one. Japan likes playing flashy, so pivot grabbing would make sense. The diddy didn't follow anything up and just jumped around and air dodged while holding bananas asking to get punished. lol

 

[san.]

Japan is either way flashier than U.S. or way campier than U.S. based on what I hear from people.

I think pivot grabs are nice and all, but jabbing is still the way to go most of the time, especially since ike doesn't have too many amazing followups, and only a couple more reliable ones near the edge. That's a pretty nice Ike player, though, even though there were situations where he really could've controlled the match. Diddy didn't seem used to Ike.

I do agree Ike's pivot grab is a lot better than his standing grab, since it takes 12 frames (really slow for non-tethers) for the running grab and 9 for pivot.

I wonder why not many people pick bananas from the air? (like fast fall air dodge into the banana to pick it up) because if you're running towards the banana, it's like 90% guarantee you're going to dash attack (and ike's isn't good if they see it coming)

 

[doom dragon 105]

He doesn't seem experienced sine he doesn't reverse Aether, momentum cancel or do the lagless bair. His jab control is pretty good

 

[Kimchi]

I'm back guys. Anyway, I've seen that Ike before and I think Abyss from Japan is better truthfully. Haven't seen much videos from Abyss lately though.

 

[Palpi]

That player isn't that good. All he did was get 3 pivot grabs... not that big of a deal. He almost lost to a horrid diddy player.

 

[doom dragon 105]

I'm a moron disregard this

 

[Teh Brettster]

As terrible a disaster as the bracket was for me at SWAT (I played Hylian and Infinity back to back), I had a bunch of fun at my first out of town tourney and am semi-satisfied with my performance. I think I am getting decent and am hoping to keep the upward trend.

Arturo, it was too much fun meeting you there. You're a really cool guy with a really good Ike. I sincerely hope we meet again at Final Smash 6. If we do, I PROMISE not to end any close Ike dittos in suicides. Way too anticlimactic and embarrassing. Oh and I will win, too, because I didn't quite manage it in the few matches we played this time around.

 

[theeboredone]

Did anyone see me at SWAT? I was that guy to the left of Brett.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Nope, I wasn't there.

*points to sig*

hype hype hype hype hype

There are also going to be crew battles and Brawl+ side events on the sunday, as well as vBrawl team battles. I'm teaming up with my sister of all people (unless she suddenly quits on me)

I'm going to lose first round in doubles, but I'll have fun. XD

 

[Mikey2eyes]

I have a bad habit of rolling or bairing when someone is directly behind me. I see other Ikes do turn around jabs quite quickly which I think is more effective.

Whenever I try and do turnaround jabs I find a ftilt coming out, any tips? :/