Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[doom dragon 105]

It is easy to just buffer the bair after the SH.

Thats what I've been doing, but it seems better to use the other method

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I just tap jump > Cstick Bair its pretty simple.

 

[Palpi]

What other method? It is the same thing. Another method would be doing with tap jump, but that is not even needed. By using a button to jump you can DI the bair quicker, though since Ike has a slow jump, it probably doesn't matter.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

You can only drift the bair quicker if your trying to move backwards since you just hold back. If you want to move forwards then tap jump is closer to that direction.

I don't approach with bair so thats what works for me idk about you guys.

 

[Nysyarc]

While we're on the topic of bairs I have another question:

I'm trying to improve my jab-canceling by mixing in other moves after using it, and I'd like to be able to go from a jab -> bair. However, I can't figure out what controls are involved in doing it fast enough that you're opponent can't easily escape.

The closest I've figured is that after I jab, I flick my control stick in a half circle (starting down so it cancels the jab, then back to turn, then up to short hop) and use the c-stick for the bair. However I haven't managed to pull it off without moving away from my target... and I usually end up just short-hopping to an fair.

Is there a better way of doing it?

 

[san.]

I'm not entirely sure, but can't buffering a turnaround be the same as the semicircle? I usually just jab, hold left, wait for the turnaround, then bair, to be quite honest.

Anyways, you can time holding (or ending the semicircle) away so that it gets buffered so you can bair once you see yourself physically turn.

If you can't do it fast enough, you might want to either try using jump+A, or try changing jump to the L or R buttons.

 

[Palpi]

That is actually a pretty good idea. I never though of that lol.

 

[Nysyarc]

I'm not entirely sure, but can't buffering a turnaround be the same as the semicircle? I usually just jab, hold left, wait for the turnaround, then bair, to be quite honest.

Hmm. I think changing my L and R buttons is out of the question, I'd be too confused

But I will try what you mentioned there, ^^^ it just seemed ridiculous to me that anyone had time to jab, cancel it, and then turn and short-hop to bair all fast enough that the opponent can't escape. But I guess if I can take out the cancel part, it makes it considerably easier.

I'll give it a shot, thanks for the advice

 

[Palpi]

Just practice, you'll get it.

 

[san.]

I don't think jab-->bair is a true combo, so I think they can always escape, but there's just a small window of opportunity for escape.

 

[Palpi]

At 0% on a lot of characters a nair will send them up high enough that jab to bair is reallllly easy to pull off (though I don't know if it is a true combo or not)

 

[doom dragon 105]

jab to bair might work on bigger people, Bowser, DK, Ganon ect.

I'll test it

 

[metroid1117]

I'm not entirely sure, but can't buffering a turnaround be the same as the semicircle? I usually just jab, hold left, wait for the turnaround, then bair, to be quite honest.

I asked Rykoshet how he does jab -> BAir, and he basically said this except he buffers the BAir along with the turnaround.

 

[Nysyarc]

Okay, just so I can follow this easier, what exactly does it mean to buffer an action in Brawl? I might already be doing it and I just don't know it's called buffering

 

[Kimchi]

Rykoshet also told me that he does it exactly the way san just described. I do it like that, too. I don't think jab -> Bair is a true combo, but it does have some benefits.

Jab -> Bair allows you to safely hit away your opponent. Not only can you distance yourself from your opponent, but you can follow right through with Jab if he tries to punish.

Don't really remember everything that he told me but I'm pretty sure that was one of the benefits of Jab -> Bair that he told me.

 

[Guilhe]

Okay, just so I can follow this easier, what exactly does it mean to buffer an action in Brawl? I might already be doing it and I just don't know it's called buffering

Buffering means that all commands you input are stored and read in an array. So that if you input your commands too fast for being executed in 60fps, the system will store that command and execute it at the first frame that action becomes possible. I hope I haven’t confused you more.

Moving on to my problems: Sometimes when I try jab -> Bair, I do a Fox Trotting Fsmash. Any tips on how to avoid doing that? How do I gimp Falco? Walk-off Uair, what else?

 

[Kirk]

Adjust the timing of your jump. If you're Fsmashing, you aren't getting airborne before your c-stick/attack input. Most likely you are jumping too fast, thus it doesn't get registered and goes to your next command(Attacking).

 

[Nysyarc]

About gimping Falco, my brother plays a pretty good Falco and I've found fair is really the only reliable way to gimp him. I've made one or two lucky walk-off dairs if I get him in the right spot below the stage, but if he's above the stage or too far out, the only way is to fair (ehther walk-off or jump). Be careful if you jump out to do it though, don't be predictable because his phantasm will meteor you. It's easy to cancel but not easy to get back for Ike if you're too far away from the stage.

That's one of the many reasons why Falco is a bad match-up for Ike, very difficult to gimp. You're better off just staying a bit away from the edge and using spaced fairs to try and keep him from coming back on the stage.

 

[san.]

Fair is definitely not the best way to gimp falco.

If you're on the stage, I usually play a guessing game. Is falco going to side B to the ledge or over the stage? I don't think many falcos will try to phantasm over you too much, cause of the landing lag and the time it takes to fall, so it's usually at you or to the ledge.

If you think it's at you, try to hit them with your jab. That will put falco in a really bad position for a possible gimp. Even if they go to the ledge, it won't leave you wide open like fair. If you're really confident, you could even dash into the stage+ up smash.

The next option is to speed hug the ledge. Once falco is below you and have to use his upB, it's pretty much over. it's really ~50:50, and change depending on how the opponent is reacting offstage.

Most likely, falco would like to conserve his double jump so you can keep constantly guessing when/where he will phantasm. I'd just wait for the double jump if I were you, but still be prepared to jab (i wouldn't try to speedhug at that situation)



If you're grabbing the ledge, you could either ledge release jump+ up air, or ledge release+reverse aether. If falco manages to grab the ledge when you aether, you can still hold towards the stage and land on the stage and not die. You'll just get punished afterwards. I'm not sure how well falco can DI out of aether, but if the falco is high enough, it's worth a shot.

 

[Nysyarc]

Oh, I just meant off-stage gimping, like before (or right when) he starts a recovery move, I thought that's what he was asking about I agree with everything you said though for sure.

Just practice, you'll get it.

I got it, lol. It didn't take much practice once I started buffering the turnaround instead of trying to cancel the jab first. I've already successfully done it in a few matches, though I occasionally end up just turning and jabbing if I hit the c-stick too early.

 

[doom dragon 105]

OK guys going in teams

I'm going with a link any advice?

 

[MysticKenji]

keep him on the stage

make sure you're not in the way of his spam

 

[Teh Brettster]

Ike attack. Link spam.

I may just be saying that because of how Broken Arrow plays and it's the first thing that comes to my mind with Link on a team. But that's TL and MK.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Any other non obvious advice

 

[metroid1117]

Fair is definitely not the best way to gimp falco.

FAir isn't the best way, but it it can gimp Falco quite well at low %s. If you're lucky, BThrow -> run off the stage -> double jump FAir might catch any Falco who tries to jump and Phantasm back to the stage in a hurry. If the FAir hit at very low %s and depending on their DI, they will be forced to use their up+B to recover, which can be Aetherspiked while you're trying to get back. If, however, they DI the BThrow away and get out of your FAir reach, you'll find yourself spiked by their side+B if you're too greedy (this happened to me at my last tourney).

But yeah, BThrow to get them off stage, then either guess if they'll go through you or for the edge. Like san said, jab them if they're going through you or edgehog if they go for the stage. The timing for jabbing them out of their side+B is pretty strict, but if you practice it enough you'll be able to get it down; try jabbing right after the first "whoosh" sound, before the "swish" sound of them zooming towards you.

 

[san.]

FAir isn't the best way, but it it can gimp Falco quite well at low %s. If you're lucky, BThrow -> run off the stage -> double jump FAir might catch any Falco who tries to jump and Phantasm back to the stage in a hurry. If the FAir hit at very low %s and depending on their DI, they will be forced to use their up+B to recover, which can be Aetherspiked while you're trying to get back. If, however, they DI the BThrow away and get out of your FAir reach, you'll find yourself spiked by their side+B if you're too greedy (this happened to me at my last tourney).

I agree that this is also very good. when I was thinking of fair, I was thinking that falco was traditionally hit offstage with an aerial,tilt, or smash. I usually try this almost every time I have a chance to backthrow near the edge. There's also not much of a chance for you getting gimped either. When I try this, it's not really a consistent gimp , so dash-->double jump fair works best, yet sometimes I like to throw slightly different approaches, like dash+small hop or something like that. It's hard to explain, just based on how you think your opponent will try to get back.

If the falco DIs up, he doesn't need to jump to phantasm back after Ike's bthrow, right? If so, gimping falco takes a good amount of prediction and skill, but it's definitely possible if you consider Ike's offstage options. Up-air is also nice for kills at higher percents because of the nice big longlasting hitboxes.


About aetherspikes, anyone know how easy it is to just SDI out of it? I've been getting a lot less aetherspikes recently as I face skilled players.

 

[Kimchi]

I suppose skilled players SDI know how to SDI away from Aether. For example, if I'm aethering right, skilled players SDI probably to the right as well. Up and Left would not be a good choice, because Up just leaves him more open for the spike and Left leaves him punishable on the stage.

 

[metroid1117]

About aetherspikes, anyone know how easy it is to just SDI out of it? I've been getting a lot less aetherspikes recently as I face skilled players.

They won't be able to SDI out of it if you only hit with the descending portion .

But yeah, it's really not that hard to SDI out of it; directly away from Ike usually works.

 

[Kimchi]

Every time I think I'm doing well with Ike, I hit another wall that I have to overcome. Every single time I overcome that wall, I encounter the same problem that I solved before I encountered the wall. This goes on in an infinite loop. Getting really annoying.

 

[Nysyarc]

Playing Ike at a high level is a lot more complicated than I thought it would be >.<

Not that I thought it would be easy, but I didn't think it would involve as much careful use of... well, everything, as it does. I mean in a lot of match-ups, you can only afford so many mistakes playing as Ike. I like that though, I prefer a challenge.

 

[gsninja]

Ike is pretty much a double-edge sword in that regard. He's a GREAT punisher of mistakes, but at the same time, one mistake on his part can spell assrape for him. Ike is pretty much one of the more difficult characters to master.

I know exactly what to do with Ike to be good with him, but the problem with me is that I don't do most of those things, partly because I haven't been playing Brawl much, lol.

 

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[Nysyarc]

I know exactly what to do with Ike to be good with him, but the problem with me is that I don't do most of those things, partly because I haven't been playing Brawl much, lol.

That's exactly my problem. I know how I'm supposed to play (spacing and all that) and I've watched as many recent-ish videos of Ike's gameplay as I can, but I just can't think of all those techniques and stuff in-game. I guess it comes naturally after enough practice.

Heck I can't even DI that good as it is. That's as good a place to start as any. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to practice SDI and DI in general? It might just be me, I can't seem to react to a hit fast enough to SDI it, even if it has ridiculous lag like samus' laser.

 

[san.]

Can't react fast enough? When I feel like I'm in danger, I'm usually prepared to DI up/away/whatever lol. If you miss your fair, if they shield your nair, feeling danger in midair, etc. just readying yourself to DI is best, compared to doing it by immediate reaction, so you don't get caught offguard with a horizontal attack.

I don't think you particularly need to be extremely careful with DI until 70+%. Add this getting a good idea how to DI/SDI most of the opponent's moves (especially multihit), just playing a lot and getting your own feel for things works.

If I made an obvious mistake and I know i'm going to be attacked or smashed, I usually just QCDI back and forth if I don't think i can particularly time it. Just moving the control stick in a fan shape usually works, and at least I get the DI input anyways.

 

[Rykoshet]

SDI is honestly touch and go for me, I only really SDI multi hits anyway and you can see most of those coming from a mile away all things considered. Normal DI is mostly aiming for the corner then curving it downwards and adjusting your analog position in relation to where your body is on the screen.

 

[san.]

QCDI is really easy so I might as well. SDI from it sometimes is just a nice bonus.

Think SDI is useful for those strong vertical kills? Just seems like I survive a lot longer if I can SDI to the side rather than regular DI.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Okay. With C-stick set to attack, and I can't ever pull a fast-falling Dair when sent up (which is what I always used to do).... what is my very best option to surviving vertical hits?

 

[Kirk]

Any aerial + holding down on the control stick. It's all the same.

In more detail, you can start all of your aerials at exactly the same time(duh). The fastfall from the aerial happens immediately, i.e. when you perform an aerial. Since fastfalling is the only thing helping your vertical momentum, it doesn't matter which aerial you use...since they all fastfall at the same time.

That was probably poorly worded...sorry. :o

 

[Rykoshet]

I think people forget that the analog portion of their c stick can be used by.... just hitting the analog.

 

[Rykoshet]

on another note, I've decided to do a new ike video guide. With basics and explanations of the things we're sick of being asked about (combat walking, walk off dair, buffered aerials, jab cancel options, aether's uses, which aerials cancel at what height etc.)

So basically I'm gonna need a list of things, I'll write down things but I wanna make sure I dont forget anything.