Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[-RedX-]

Gtfo Kirk.
So I liek volleyball cuz you can spike ****.

Who am I kidding, it's just cause San is black. Hell, our top 2 Ikes right now are black. Black people are always the best at competitive events. Sports, games, politics, you name it.

Asians dominate the 2D fighter games =]

Edit: The only azns that are likeable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaaCq7ELGZk&playnext_from=TL&videos=JIDZZAqAVd4&feature=sub

Alpha Kenny One.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Alpha Kenny Two.

 

[TX7Killian]

what the **** are you guys talking about?
san is black, who cares what the hell..

 

[Mr. Doom]

Bored cares. Otherwise he wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[theeboredone]

what the **** are you guys talking about?
san is black, who cares what the hell..

....Learn 2 Read.

 

[Nysyarc]

what the **** are you guys talking about?
san is black, who cares what the hell..

Learn 2 be openly racist in a way that isn't actually racist.

 

[san.]

AFAIKTIBNFBoredIMOTBQH
All that DC in this fl0pix GP

 

[theeboredone]

I saw my name and that's all I got.

 

[Heartstring]

lol, peoples getting all touchy over harmless joking XP
jus' saying well done to san for his awesome ladder placement, way to rep ike XP

oh yeah btw people, is frigate any good for ike? it tends to work for me because i really dont like brinstar, it also hurts plankers on the first transformation which is good for ike.
also can someone explain to me why people feel that ike is decent on jungle japes?
cheers gaiz

 

[Palpi]

I have always liked frigate for ike. I have been brought there in 2 low tiers tournament and beat them on their CP. Though I don't think I would use it as a CP because I would much rather have Delfino or Battlefield, but if you get brought there, think of it as another neutral. =]

And for japes, i dunno, never played japes since its been banned around me for a long time. I remember kirk going snake on japes because it was bad for Ike, but that was a while ago too.

 

[san.]

Only characters to worry about on japes are falco and MK, maaaaybe DK. The middle is just flat + a platform, which isn't so bad. On the sides, Ike can apply a lot of shield pressure.

Almost all of Ikes moves will knock them off. Ike also can use aether pretty well, and can even spike them in the water and set up for another spike after that. Ike would also be killing earlier than the opponent, too. The water doesn't gimp you unless you're either spiked on the left side/far left side, or if you fall in the far left side. Ike has stupid things he can do to people near the edge, too, and is safer near the edge.

Overall, I think it's a manageable stage for Ike. Just watch out for the characters who are really good there.

 

[Ussi]

Frigate is bad for Ike. But Ike CAN exploit it on others, an all low tiers besides like Jiggs Ike can pressure due to their recovery. Higher tier characters have better recoveries meaning it's harder for Ike to pressure them on.

Only reason it's bad is how easy it is to exploit Ike on it.

But again the 2nd part is still normal for Ike. Soo depends how much the Stage hates you and how comfortable you are on it.


Edit: I've been doing some on paper theroycrafting. Apparently MK's dsmash has -25 frames shield advantage on front and -20 on the back... Meaning -18 on the front and -13 on the back when you shield drop... Meaning in Theory you can punish the front hit with ftilt and the back hit with utilt and aether... In theory

that same theory claims Pikachu can QA OoS to punish Ike's fair and can usmash OoS Ike's nair

 

[theeboredone]

lol, peoples getting all touchy over harmless joking XP
jus' saying well done to san for his awesome ladder placement

I stopped reading after that.

 

[Palpi]

the middle platform ***** for ike on frigate and i honestly don't mind the first stage transformation. you can fthrow lock them and you can easily edge guard them on the right side if they recover high or low.

 

[Heartstring]

I stopped reading after that.

aww come on, it may be wifi, but its still a creditable placement no?

ok cheers for the advice, japes is banned here anyway, but i was just wondering why people didnt hate it, i despise it XP.
frigate seems such an odd place to use as a counterpick though, but seeing as planking is a large aspect these days it screws over a lot of people

 

[theeboredone]

aww come on, it may be wifi, but its still a creditable placement no?

There are great players who do well on wifi, and then there are great players who can't do **** on wifi. Since it's not accurate, wifi fails. It's good for gaining MU experience, but that's about it.

 

[Heartstring]

There are great players who do well on wifi, and then there are great players who can't do **** on wifi. Since it's not accurate, wifi fails. It's good for gaining MU experience, but that's about it.

well with how remote i am from...well...anything, its the only way of playing anyone other than tourneys, which i place well in, btw.
its either that of play lvl 9's all the time.

i think certain characters suffer on wifi, particularly icies and other characters that require precision, but seeind as ike dosent (not as much anyway) hes ok on it

 

[smashkng]

Sorry if it is a noob question, but how can you walk off Dair without fast falling?

 

[Ussi]

Sorry if it is a noob question, but how can you walk off Dair without fast falling?

Easy/nontechnical way: tilt stick

hard/Pro way: Hold diagonal down (direction you are running off) and c-stick down (you can't fast fall when you have a downward direction inputted)


this can be applied to other characters I know i've done it XD

 

[metroid1117]

Easy/nontechnical way: tilt stick

hard/Pro way: Hold diagonal down (direction you are running off) and c-stick down (you can't fast fall when you have a downward direction inputted)


this can be applied to other characters I know i've done it XD

By the way, "tilt stick" is the nickname for "Attack Stick," which is the option that comes up in the controller settings. Attack stick allows you to jab or NAir if you C-stick diagonally (in addition to letting you DAir after the peak of your jump without fastfalling), but it does not allow you to DI with the C-stick.

 

[-RedX-]

Attack Stick also let's you do jabs and tilts out of an initial dash. =]

 

[YagamiLight]

What exactly do you mean by "initial dash" in this context, Red-X? Are you referring to the 7 frames at the start of a dash during which you can pivot?

 

[-RedX-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c
That. o-o
I've been practicing it with tilt stick so I can do like a retreating jab by dashing away->dash away+dash dance forward+hit tilt stick back to jab.

 

[san.]

Won't that force a jump if you mess up?

 

[-RedX-]

Only if you mistime the second dash.
I've been able to do this pretty consistently lol
Just need to find out some ways to apply it in-game now =]

 

[YagamiLight]

That's pretty cool. Would there be some sort of way to dash forward and jab? The most obvious application would be to combo from an Fthrow.

I might try that out at the next smashfest, regardless.

 

[san.]

A true pivot pivot jab?

Well anyways, I've always heard people talk about true pivot and implementing it in their game ALL THE TIME, but I never see any matches utilizing it at all, or at least I don't notice it. It seems nice in theory, though. I just dash+shield really.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Have you guys ever gone to a tourney where you just can't help but feel like everything is a friendly and there aren't any tourney matches going on?

Also WTF Wolf... I need to learn that character's moveset or something. I can't play against him, lol.
And for that matter, I cannot punish ZSS no matter what I do. HALP. VIDZ PLZ.

 

[-RedX-]

I don't think so Light. But Overswarm might have an idea on that. Remember that AT he talked about awhile ago? I dunno why he didn't release the vid yet. -.-

@Brett, maybe it's because the matches aren't hyped? lol
Wolf=Bair, Blaster, Dsmash, good at juggling.
And ZSS is a problem for me too, I'm like 0-2 with PatG in sets. >_>

 

[Albert.]

Yoo What's the Ike/Wario Match up like?

Can Ike plank?

 

[YagamiLight]

The best way to play against ZSS is to enter the match knowing that any thoughts that you have about that character are probably wrong, haha.

I'm not even qualified to give any opinion on this match-up since I have played like 2 ZSS mains ever and got my *** beaten promptly by both of them. I was too busy being shocked that I just got beaten by a character that I kept forgetting was actually in SSBB to begin with that I didn't actually realize what lead to my loss.

EDIT:
@ Albert

I play against a good Wario a lot at the smashfests here and I think it's probably one of Ike's best high tier match-ups. The match-up relies a lot on how fast Ike can play to keep up with Wario and if you can manage to balance out your offense/defense ratio to suitably match his defense/offense ratio. i.e. know when he's going to do what and apply the proper counter response to it. Not sure if that makes sense but the match relies on reads a lot.

 

[Albert.]

What's the best attack out of grab-release on Wario? UTilt? When does it kill?

 

[theeboredone]

What's the best attack out of grab-release on Wario? UTilt? When does it kill?

Most likely it's F-tilt diagonaled upwards or a fresh B-air. Honestly it depends on the Wario's DI. If he is gonna DI to the right, then up-tilt is not a good idea, but if he's expecting you to b-air or f-tilt, he will try to DI up. So you would use Up-Tilt in that situation.

What I would do is constantly use one move over and over out of grab release to get them adjusted to how to DI. Then when it is time to kill (130 for sure) with a certain move, I will go ahead and watch them poorly DI and kill themselves.

 

[Albert.]

Ahhh CONDITIONINGG

 

[san.]

ZSS isn't a good matchup for Ike, but it's one of those matches where the game can end in a flash. It really is just how well you can jab/not fall for stupid crap. Aerials aren't as good in this matchup, which is the thing I had most trouble dealing with.

Avoid her aerials like no one's business, and the matchup will be incredibly easier. At first you'll be like "wth" but don't be afraid, because ZSS gets messed up so early it's almost preposterous.

At first I had trouble with the ZSS matchup, but after playing snakeee for a while after he moved to my region, we go even, and I also beat "Nik ridle" in friendlies.

@Bored: I wish I can perform epic mindgames like that. I never really even think about things like that XD.

 

[Ussi]

Make sure that ZSS doesn't like to grab you, otherwise fsmash her face for trying too.

her aerials are a problem, but you can space your aerials away from hers.

her side B is slower than fair

A lot of ZSS have habits of doing two dsmashes in a row even on shield, you CAN ftilt in-between the two dsmashes

 

[Nysyarc]

If the ZSS likes spacing with sideB a lot, just get inside of it and jab her. It's only hitbox is quite a distance away from her and it takes awhile to come out. If you can bait it or figure out when she likes to do it, it's easy to get past the hitbox and punish with jabs.

And Ftilt between Dsmashes? I can't see that happening, unless you meant a different attack? Like, maybe if you PS the first Dsmash and use the Ftilt frame-perfect after that, it may just barely hit ZSS a single frame before her second Dsmash comes out... but it doesn't seem like it'd work to me.

Unless you mean that Ftilt has more range than Dsmash and if you get pushed back in your shield you can punish the second Dsmash with the Ftilt? Otherwise I would again just punish with jabs, because they will come out between Dsmashes if you manage to spot-dodge or PS.

 

[Ussi]

No you can seriously ftilt in-between dsmashes with a normal shield drop. I do it ALL the time with Pikachu's fsmash (Which takes 15 frames to come out just like ftilt)

 

[Nysyarc]

Actually, according to Kirk's data compilation Ftilt hits on frames 17-19, and two frames really can make a difference in a situation like that. Have you actually pulled it off with Ike's Ftilt before or only Pikachu's Fsmash? Somehow I just can't see it working.

 

[Ussi]

ah, I've done it with Pika's fsmash, which hits frame 15 uncharged. I thought Ike's ftilt was 15 frames too, my mistake. I was applying what I've done with pikachu to Ike. Though it COULD be possible since I never tried. Try testing it if you can get someone to dsmash as ZSS.


Otherwise just jab if you anticipate a 2nd dsmash. (utilt for kill)