Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[Slaps]

http://www.mlgpro.com/photogallery/...-Pro-Circuit/Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl-Day-1?p=3 San spotted playing Ally, ******** asian lady spotted behind san, A kid that looks like he is about to cry spotted on far right taking video! XD.

 

[theeboredone]

Haha, San wearing that same old shirt from WHOBO. Looks like we got another one of those people.

Good to see that the shirt is pretty unique in the fact it says "Johnson Family Reunion".

I think I need a new controller, since I believe my controller lags due to too much online. When I play offline and I'm doing shorthops my bairs won't work because the A button lags or something. idk wtf it is :/

This...this...are you serious? Please don't be so stupid.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

http://www.mlgpro.com/photogallery/...-Pro-Circuit/Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl-Day-1?p=3 San spotted playing Ally, ******** asian lady spotted behind san, A kid that looks like he is about to cry spotted on far right taking video! XD.

i smiled and laughed waay more than i should have LOL

 

[Teh Brettster]

If you don't have a tourney shirt, you should get one. I don't know why, but it's fun.

 

[theeboredone]

If you don't have a tourney shirt, you should get one. I don't know why, but it's fun.

Conformity is not for me. See Emo Song.

 

[YagamiLight]

Is there an AT that looks like... double B-reversing? I'm in training mode and I'm full hopping forward, changing my momentum backward, but charging QD forward.

Well from my tests the closest thing you can do like that is to jump forward, hold the control stick in the opposite direction and Quick Draw and THEN hit forward again to B-Reverse. This will result in a Step Draw (tm) which can also be accomplished by jumping forward and holding your B stick backwards.

 

[benaji261!]

This...this...are you serious? Please don't be so stupid.

I need a new controller imo regardless. The Z button is starting to stick.

Oh btw A_B(far left) is in a Falco main pic at MLG. wtf?

 

[Slaps]

only one white falco main... XD

 

[bladeboys]

I think I need a new controller, since I believe my controller lags due to too much online. When I play offline and I'm doing shorthops my bairs won't work because the A button lags or something. idk wtf it is :/

o_o I don't even understand what you wanna mean xD

@Slaps : A_B has an affair with Falco board

 

[Heartstring]

hurr, it really is true, only black people can use falco XD...is it because he has a 'gun'?

yeah quick question for the board, what it ike's best throw in your opinion? i tend to use d-throw a lot because if they dont DI its a free 20% from aether. and if they do you can normalyl land an u-air on them at low percents

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I LOVE MATH

Spoiler

q23342141

 

[Palpi]

Golden Psycho, not only is Dthrow absurdly easy to DI, aether is easy to SDI out of. What you are doing doesn't really work against decent players. Dthrow to (insert aerial) works if you guess what they are going to do, air dodge, jump, etc etc...but you should mainly stick with the bthrow - > dash attack ~combo.

 

[Heartstring]

Golden Psycho, not only is Dthrow absurdly easy to DI, aether is easy to SDI out of. What you are doing doesn't really work against decent players. Dthrow to (insert aerial) works if you guess what they are going to do, air dodge, jump, etc etc...but you should mainly stick with the bthrow - > dash attack ~combo.

k cheers, although honestly i find that dosent work that well (of course, dthrow aether dosent either, this is what happens when you can only practise on wifi/lvl 9's) i've heard that the f-throw is good if you can learn how to tech chase

 

[YagamiLight]

On a bit of a side note, Aether's middle hits have specific SDI reduction modifiers so if you can get them in the air with it after a Dthrow you will probably do a sizable amount of damage. The main way to hit them with it is to probably Dash forward and do a Sliding Aether (Aether and hold forward). It actually gives you quite a bit of of horizontal range and is preferable to just Aethering straight up.

Categorically speaking Bthrow is _probably_ Ike's best throw but all of the throws (except for Up Throw) have uses so just figure out which one works the most for you. Bthrow provides a massive frame advantage, Dthrow provides a massive positional advantage and Fthrow provides a bit of both!

 

[bladeboys]

[...]
Categorically speaking Bthrow is _probably_ Ike's best throw but all of the throws (except for Up Throw) have uses so just figure out which one works the most for you. Bthrow provides a massive frame advantage, Dthrow provides a massive positional advantage and Fthrow provides a bit of both!

I totally agree !

Tomorrow, I've to go back to school My friend is still in USA xD He was supposed to leave last Friday but he can't because of the eruption
"Severe flight disruption - ALL flights into and out of London cancelled on 18 and 19 April - click for more information"

We have load of homework and he wanted to do it during the week-end ... owned lmao

 

[Hist]

I wondering how these fights play out. When i go against these 2 i have alot of trouble getting hits in unless they mess up.

Ike Vs. Wolf

Ike Vs. Kirby

 

[Palpi]

http://www.mlgpro.com/photogallery/...-Pro-Circuit/Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl-Day-1?p=4

I nearly **** myself when i saw this picture.

neo vs zombie...irl

 

[DTK.L]

I wondering how these fights play out. When i go against these 2 i have alot of trouble getting hits in unless they mess up.

Ike Vs. Wolf

Ike Vs. Kirby

I have trouble with these Mu's too also these.

Ike vs Falco

Ike vs Olimar

But maybe im just not good with ike

 

[Ussi]

I have trouble with these Mu's too also these.

Ike vs Falco

Ike vs Olimar

But maybe im just not good with ike

Those are in Ike's top 5 problem MUs.

Olimar being 2nd worst, its just lame since Ike's weakness is already the shield. Having a shield grab which outranges everything you do just sucks balls. So the best thing you can do is SHAD to approach or try to land behind while attacking Olimar so he can't shield grab you. But then it gets so obvious he can Usmash/UpB you OoS

Falco others can give better advice than me, but you can safety use nairs and fairs when spaced right. Its hard cause Falco is good at keeping Ike away and forcing Ike away when Ike gets close. Learn to Powershield lasers to make your life so much easier. After that you gotta abuse your range and not let Falco get a jab/grab off so stay in that optimal range of nair and fair and Falco might feel pressured to close that gap and that's when you jab him~

Oh don't let Phamtasm get to you, read that if he uses that. PS and chase him with nair/bair but do not let yourself fall into lag cause his aerial illusion (Which most Falcos will do) has less lag than a grounded one, so he can counter attack quickly. If you can't chase then its just reset if you managed to shield the hit.

 

[san.]

In the airport right now.

I don't have a tourney shirt. I just felt like bringing it with me on the plane trip. I usually wear a light jacket (although my old one is still left at a smasher's apartment).

MLG was weird but fun. You guys probably know all the details. Ryo is good btw lol.

I haven't been having too many problems against most falcos really. Those best 5 or so will really be a lot different though, XD.

 

[Heartstring]

Those are in Ike's top 5 problem MUs.

Olimar being 2nd worst, its just lame since Ike's weakness is already the shield. Having a shield grab which outranges everything you do just sucks balls. So the best thing you can do is SHAD to approach or try to land behind while attacking Olimar so he can't shield grab you. But then it gets so obvious he can Usmash/UpB you OoS

Falco others can give better advice than me, but you can safety use nairs and fairs when spaced right. Its hard cause Falco is good at keeping Ike away and forcing Ike away when Ike gets close. Learn to Powershield lasers to make your life so much easier. After that you gotta abuse your range and not let Falco get a jab/grab off so stay in that optimal range of nair and fair and Falco might feel pressured to close that gap and that's when you jab him~

Oh don't let Phamtasm get to you, read that if he uses that. PS and chase him with nair/bair but do not let yourself fall into lag cause his aerial illusion (Which most Falcos will do) has less lag than a grounded one, so he can counter attack quickly. If you can't chase then its just reset if you managed to shield the hit.

oh yeah, another thing, msot falco's i know like to land onstage with phantasm from off the ledge (i.e: back, jump, phantasm) and on FD you can do a fsmash in the centre of the stage, it WILL hit if done right, and chances are after getting hit by it they wil change their tactics completely, throwing them off a bit.

haha, people saying waht they think ike's main weakeness, surely its teh fact that he's 'fodder' to anything in this game XD

 

[Slaps]

ah, right on topic XD. Just got done playing a wifi Falco last night on AiB. He went by RoodenSlayer. I somehow think its more than a coincidence that all Falco players on wifi have massive button lag XD lol. I took him to game 3 losing game 1 and CPing FD XD (yeah i did it). I didn't want a stage with a bottom you could go through and I didn't want a flat stage, but i figured that if he grabbed me at all and far enough back on the stage, by the time he got close to the edge i would be out of cg %... By the way, what is the minimum % you can jump out of Falco's CG?

Also, imo, Falco is helpless without grab. Falco really doesn't have much without cg, once oyu pass that % that falco can't cg you, you can easily deal with him and the matchup becomes a whole lot easier. Against most Falcos i play i try and not get grabbed at all at low %s and just take damage via other attacks rather than cging. If he lasers you jab will come out before he can get you unless you are like directly in front of him when he lasers you. Again stating this is MY opinion on the matchup so I don't want it being like Hylian telling me I am wrong even when its just MY opinion. XD

 

[Shinde425]

Olimar, can't you just fight to get him off the ledge? Like super pressure him, knock him off and edgehog and he's done unless he jump back on the stage....

Edit:
Honestly, maybe I've never fought a good Olimar, but I feel like even Ike has options to build a game around Olimar's UBER weakness. If he can't attack oli's shield, then bait shield > quick grab? Like short hop > ff > run in for grab. Push him near the edge and keep him there. You know an Olimar is gonna feel really pressured if you take control of the match when he's near the edge...eventually you'll knock him too far and you just gotta take that ledge. The only thing that could hurt you at that point will be the game's auto release, but that'll take forever to kick in...

 

[Ussi]

You see, what you mentioned is One of the two things we can do. It's either SHAD jab, or SHAD grab...

The big problem is Olimar's pivot grab. Olimar's grab is so long and has the least cooldown of all tethers.

The problem is getting Olimar off stage. Whistle armoring through attacks doesn't help either when he's recovering.

Olimar can deal with our options soundly.

It's mid-high risk: low reward Vs mid-low risk: mid reward

EDIT:

I wondering how these fights play out. When i go against these 2 i have alot of trouble getting hits in unless they mess up.

Ike Vs. Wolf

Ike Vs. Kirby

I did not ignore this, i just can't answer this too greatly....

Ike vs Wolf is a bit tricky at first. First you have to learn where Wolf can hit you from (more so than others) as his ground game vastly beats Ikes. Anyways I'll tell you how to deal with the 3 biggest tools of wolf:

Fsmash MUST be spot dodged on the edge cause if you shield the first hit (which is weak) will push you off stage to be hit by the strong hit. Fsmash is a damage racker and a mid 100% kill move (because its stale) Fsmash moves Wolf pretty far forward. If it hits you on the edge, it sets you up to be gimped. There are two ways to counter it. Either shield grab or OoS bair. Shield grab if Wolf doesn't go through you, OoS Bair when Wolf does go through you.

Dsmash is very short ranged and even jab canceled it out. You shouldn't really get hit by this move often, but if you do it kills at 110% or so. As an Ike you must be spacing already so if Wolf wants to land it, he has to close the gap which makes it optimal jab time.

Wolf moves fast in the air so you gotta be wary of his bair as its strong. It can be used to hit you out of aether. This and dthrow will prob kill you most.

Kirby.....

Learn to time a dair coming from the ledge to hit kirby out of UpB. Kirbies will always try to gimp you. If they fail they might be put in this situation where you can do this.

Other than that, space properly and don't be stupid and get by fsmash, hammers, and stone so easy (besides when he stones aether)



would be easier if you told us what is getting to you

 

[Ryo_Guikido]

San your sick bro!!! But...like we agreed...we both are so gross!!!! Can't wait for us to destroy at the next MLG.

 

[Heartstring]

ike vs. olimar, its an uphill battle, needless to say.
i thing is, most good olimars will not come in to attack you close range unless youre in a really bad situation, the generaly formula is to keep abotu half an FD away, throw pikmin tell you panic and hit the c-stick to get them all off (which works) and then they haev a massive window to smash/grab/****/etc you. to actually get an olimar offstage, or even damage full stop, you haev to ignore the pikmin that are busy skull******* your bosy and go and hit him rather than the pikmin, sadly for everyone, this means you eat a ****load of damage, and if you miss the hit youre gonig for, youre in trouble.
either way, it isnt fun, i managed to beat an olimar at the most recent tournament i entered (no, it wasnt wifi) and that was with a LOT of Nair, and not so much Fair. seriously, in my opion, fair is better off as a kill move in this matchup (odd huh?) because it kills early on if you chase off stage, which all olimars hate, jsut getting them there is hard.

on a BIG side note, and probably a stupid question.

has anyone ever attempted to switch the uses of ikes ariels up a bit, by that, i mean using the b-air to do damage, and killing with the fair. i know its sounds rediculous, but think about it for a second, the b-air is a really fast move, and if its a rising bair for a short hop, it lands with no lag, yes, it makes it that one fast kill mvoe ike has, but surely if its that goo,d it coul be used more?
and the fair dosent kill too much alter than the bair right? yknow, im just looknig at this from a different angle, the metagame is changing, we gotta adapt i spose

 

[Ussi]

What? There are Ikes who save bair for only killing? I just damage people till death...

>_> Guess i'm playing too much like Pikachu now

 

[Teh Brettster]

Screw that... I use Bair whenever it's needed or can hit. I get kills with Uair, Utilt, Ftilt, Usmash, Any spike, ummm.... yeah, actually, I just remember what is not stale and try to kill with that. Because... most of Ike's moveset kills a lot of characters.

 

[Heartstring]

yeye, i should use bair more to be honest, but i find it increasingly hard to lang the kill on opponent at higher percentages, because they become aware all of ikes moves can kill and make it really hard to hit them, thing is im one of those ikes that use almost every attack ive got, except dsmash, eruption, dtilt, dair.

wow...ikes down moves really suck dont they? on the otehr hand, his up moves are really fairly good
how odd

 

[Nysyarc]

Screw that... I use Bair whenever it's needed or can hit. I get kills with Uair, Utilt, Ftilt, Usmash, Any spike, ummm.... yeah, actually, I just remember what is not stale and try to kill with that. Because... most of Ike's moveset kills a lot of characters.

If you think about it, every single one of Ike's attacks except Jab 1, Jab 2, Fthrow, Bthrow and Uthrow can KO at reasonable percents, given certain situations. It might not be common to get KOs with Jab 3, Nair, QD, Dthrow or Aetherspike, but it's possible and I've done each of those in ladder/tourney matches.

Obviously the moves you mentioned are preferred but it's nice to know that in desperation when the Snake you're fighting has managed to DI everything and survive to 230%, you can just charge a fresh QD on a tech chase and end it then and there. On a stage with a low ceiling like Halberd, I usually keep Dthrow fresh in case my opponent catches on to Jab -> Utilt and survives to ridiculous percents. Of course that almost never happens but it was on Halberd that I got my Dthrow KO; it was the guy's last stock too.

 

[Shinde425]

Haha, why does everyone hate on Ike's dsmash? It's has a fast start and is, like all of his moves, moderately powerful. The good thing is, it's used so rarely that it becomes easy to catch/ko someone who's been living for too long in a surprise dsmash. =D I've had two fights at my college that I won because they rolled into it after having a tense match. (First one, the guy lived to 200% and the second the lived to 167%)

 

[theeboredone]

Haha, why does everyone hate on Ike's dsmash? It's has a fast start and is, like all of his moves, moderately powerful. The good thing is, it's used so rarely that it becomes easy to catch/ko someone who's been living for too long in a surprise dsmash. =D I've had two fights at my college that I won because they rolled into it after having a tense match. (First one, the guy lived to 200% and the second the lived to 167%)

If people are living past 167% against Ike, you're not playing him correctly. Downsmash is horrendous, because if you miss that first blow, you are screwed big time. Might as well just do up-smash.

 

[YagamiLight]

Dsmash is like UpSmash except worse in almost every way. It doesn't bother me too much though since UpSmash is a very good move (I think we can all agree on this?). My main method of kills at the smashfest was generally either a clean hit from a fresh Bair or Dthrow to UpAir / UpSmash.

I also got two Eruption statue kills...

 

[Shinde425]

If people are living past 167% against Ike, you're not playing him correctly. Downsmash is horrendous, because if you miss that first blow, you are screwed big time. Might as well just do up-smash.

Well, isn't that true with all of Ike's moves? I find his dsmash to fit well, since a good Ike is already in the market of making sure not to miss...so it's a fast surprise smash. I'll admit, it's not worth using often, but it shouldn't be forgotten completely. Also, I can be passive at times, but at the same time the people I play aren't pushovers. I'd rather play it safe and avoid their big stuff (and getting ko'd) if it means allowing them to live longer than they should. Well, I might as well ask: If they're at high percents, what should I start using more and less of? Also, I was thinking about this: How many frames are there between landing and shielding/side-stepping and shielding?

 

[YagamiLight]

For the last part: Depends on the landing type.

Normal landing lag is 2 frames.
Fast falling landing lag is 4 frames.
Free fall (Quick Draw) landing lag is around 30 frames.
Aether 'landing' lag is around 30 frames as well.
All of the aerials have variable landing lag, Nair is 13, Uair is 19, Bair is 22, Fair is 22 and I think Dair is 29. If you autocancel them you experience normal landing lag.

 

[Slaps]

I finished my post on Falco if anyone is interested. XD lol probably not since i am unimportant XD

 

[theeboredone]

Well, isn't that true with all of Ike's moves? I find his dsmash to fit well, since a good Ike is already in the market of making sure not to miss...so it's a fast surprise smash. I'll admit, it's not worth using often, but it shouldn't be forgotten completely. Also, I can be passive at times, but at the same time the people I play aren't pushovers. I'd rather play it safe and avoid their big stuff (and getting ko'd) if it means allowing them to live longer than they should. Well, I might as well ask: If they're at high percents, what should I start using more and less of? Also, I was thinking about this: How many frames are there between landing and shielding/side-stepping and shielding?

At 150%, D-smash won't kill Snake as an up-smash will. D-smash is just a watered down version of Up-smash in almost every single way. The only need for using D-smash is at PS1, when the tree comes up, on the left side, under the branch you grab lock them and then finish it off with a d-smash since you get both hits in if done right.

When the person is at high percents, either get them off stage first via F-air, and do a walk off F-air. Or do a bunch of b-airs on stage since you can constantly short hop and b-air with minimal lag. Finally, up-smash is great for getting spot dodgers or rollers. Up-air is long lasting so just read the air dodge and hit him with it. Like someone said earlier, Ike has way too many killing moves.

 

[Shinde425]

For the last part: Depends on the landing type.

Normal landing lag is 2 frames.
Fast falling landing lag is 4 frames.
Free fall (Quick Draw) landing lag is around 30 frames.
Aether 'landing' lag is around 30 frames as well.
All of the aerials have variable landing lag, Nair is 13, Uair is 19, Bair is 22, Fair is 22 and I think Dair is 29. If you autocancel them you experience normal landing lag.

I meant for every character, not Ike...I guess it helps to know that no one has 0 landing lag. Basically, I want to know how long to hold a smash/when to release it if they:
a) Side-step
b)Air-dodge/ FFAD into the ground.

At 150%, D-smash won't kill Snake as an up-smash will. D-smash is just a watered down version of Up-smash in almost every single way. The only need for using D-smash is at PS1, when the tree comes up, on the left side, under the branch you grab lock them and then finish it off with a d-smash since you get both hits in if done right.

When the person is at high percents, either get them off stage first via F-air, and do a walk off F-air. Or do a bunch of b-airs on stage since you can constantly short hop and b-air with minimal lag. Finally, up-smash is great for getting spot dodgers or rollers. Up-air is long lasting so just read the air dodge and hit him with it. Like someone said earlier, Ike has way too many killing moves.

Well, what I like about the dsmash is that its faster than an Usmash and harder to predict. Lol, to the last line, Ike has to have something over the rest of the cast. xD
Thanks btw

 

[Nysyarc]

Timing a smash attack when someone FFADs into the ground is very tricky. You have a 4 frame window before they can PS it, and if they do that you're gonna get punished. If they're falling straight at you, it's a much better idea to just grab them, because 99% of the time they are going to hold a shield on as soon as they hit the ground.

Although I must say, I've caught nearly every Olimar I've played with a SHAD -> Jab over and over again. I find I do it a lot more in that match-up, because unless the Olimar realizes what you're doing and starts retreating and pivot-grabbing, they will usually just stand there with their shield on assuming you're going to use an aerial. And since Jab comes out quite a bit faster than Olimar's grab, the landing lag you'll get counts for next to nothing.

 

[Watkins]

Pro Olimar tip lol