numba1cheese
Smash Cadet
That would be correct.
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Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index
- Thread starter Arturito_Burrito
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Who do Ike users usually have success with in doubles? I read Dekar's topic, and I was thinking about how exactly I should be playing with Ike depending on my partner. I work really well with some characters like DK and Ike and top tier characters, but other than that... =/
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
help him please.
his team skills with my sonic are awful, but in his defense i never have time to practice doubles with him outside of our tourney matches, lol that might help.
after i few matches, I switched to wolf and that was having much more success.
his team skills with my sonic are awful, but in his defense i never have time to practice doubles with him outside of our tourney matches, lol that might help.
after i few matches, I switched to wolf and that was having much more success.
The characters I have success with are exact opposite of sonic XD.
benaji261!
Smash Ace
I bet me and you could team san. I use Lucario and Wolf if that sounds helpful in doubles at all. XD
SOMEONE PLAY ME IN BRAWL- I LOVE USING FOX -_0
SOMEONE PLAY ME IN BRAWL- I LOVE USING FOX -_0
Slaps
Smash Lord
Ask Mr. Doom. Mr. Doom is a beast in teams he can tell you about the team combos he does lol
EDIT: Benaji I will play Brawl- with you once I get it working. Yesterday I got homebrew on just no program to run so it was blank screen. Today I will be getting Homebrew browser and then I will get Gecko off of the browser so i can play.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
Ike-Zelda: Zelda's USmash to Ike's Dair to Zelda's USmash to Ike's Bair/Fair.
Ike-Wolf: Wolf's D-throw to Ike's Fsmash.
Ike-MK: Ike B-throw to MK footstool to MK basic Jab to Ike Fsmash. Also, MK D-throw to Ike Fsmash.
Ike-Kirby: Kirby D-throw to Ike footstool to Kirby basic Jab to Ike Fsmash. Also, Kirby U-throw to Ike Uair.
Meh, the list keeps going. :/
Thanks, Mr. Doom, but I don't mean team combos lol. I'm talking about synergy and combination of playstyles/character qualities. Like patience vs aggro, how to help/get helped. It's really stuff that'll be hard for others to explain -_-.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
Oh, well, in that case... I'm kind of like the opportunist. Whenever I see an opportunity to punish an opponent with some kind of move, I try to do it. I've usually tried to play as the supporting character, because I find myself...well, better at following instead of leading. I'm an opportunist, as aforementioned.
My partner generally notifies me whenever he's in trouble with one or two words. When that happens, I just run in and throw the foes away from my partner. If I can't deal with the foes, then I'll just throw my partner away. It's only 6% damage for any of ike's throws. When my partner is off-stage, I try to get the foes onto the center of the stage so that my partner can recover. Those are few things that I do when it comes to helping my partner.
Now, when I get into some trouble—for instance, D3 starts a chain-grab—I say "grabbed," and my partner comes to my rescue. Whenever I'm being double-teamed, I try my best to get the heck out of there and regroup with my partner. If my partner doesn't want me near him, I'll go somewhere else and try to get them to follow me, because they're not looking at my partner; it sets up for a huge counter attack.
Well, I hope this made sense. If all else fails, just play a whole bunch of teams matches with people. You'll—how do I say it—get the feel of what you need to do during the setting. I don't mean to be advertising myself, but watch videos of my Ike teaming up with others. Or, you could watch other Ike-players teaming up with others.
My partner generally notifies me whenever he's in trouble with one or two words. When that happens, I just run in and throw the foes away from my partner. If I can't deal with the foes, then I'll just throw my partner away. It's only 6% damage for any of ike's throws. When my partner is off-stage, I try to get the foes onto the center of the stage so that my partner can recover. Those are few things that I do when it comes to helping my partner.
Now, when I get into some trouble—for instance, D3 starts a chain-grab—I say "grabbed," and my partner comes to my rescue. Whenever I'm being double-teamed, I try my best to get the heck out of there and regroup with my partner. If my partner doesn't want me near him, I'll go somewhere else and try to get them to follow me, because they're not looking at my partner; it sets up for a huge counter attack.
Well, I hope this made sense. If all else fails, just play a whole bunch of teams matches with people. You'll—how do I say it—get the feel of what you need to do during the setting. I don't mean to be advertising myself, but watch videos of my Ike teaming up with others. Or, you could watch other Ike-players teaming up with others.
I'm so bad at posting really long posts. That's why I usually do short ones. And if I get another tl;dr post... ;p
IMO, Ike is good with characters that can rack up damage easily/get to a specific position quickly. Ike should camp and wait for kill opportunities and possibly be a stock tank.
And he should punish whenever he can, just like what Mr. Doom said.
And he should punish whenever he can, just like what Mr. Doom said.
Thanks for the posts.
I see. I didn't play doubles that much in a long time, so I forgot how to play. I think I was too aggressive and less opportunistic with my playstyle. If I see my partner in trouble, I would just dash attack the enemy and be on my merry way. The style of play I used often caused me to use up lives more, so my play was more suited to a tank partner who is decent offstage. I'm sure I just need to get more doubles experience in order to understand how to play.
The most recent videos of me in doubles are just friendlies, but I wish we could've saved the ones we lost.
The person who uploaded it is also pretty bad quality. + my partner isn't sonic, the character i really have a problem with partnering.
I just wanna stop having bad doubles results lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswXSiHPWXI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKCiaLhjFKY&feature=channel
I see. I didn't play doubles that much in a long time, so I forgot how to play. I think I was too aggressive and less opportunistic with my playstyle. If I see my partner in trouble, I would just dash attack the enemy and be on my merry way. The style of play I used often caused me to use up lives more, so my play was more suited to a tank partner who is decent offstage. I'm sure I just need to get more doubles experience in order to understand how to play.
The most recent videos of me in doubles are just friendlies, but I wish we could've saved the ones we lost.
The person who uploaded it is also pretty bad quality. + my partner isn't sonic, the character i really have a problem with partnering.
I just wanna stop having bad doubles results lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jswXSiHPWXI&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKCiaLhjFKY&feature=channel
Palpi
Smash Hero
Wolf is garbz in doubles. I would like ike mk and ike kirby. Kirby is a sick partner. I think peach is dom in doubles, don't know how well she works with ike, but peach can be scary.
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Ya know. As Ike mains. It's one thing to win, but it's another to win while looking sexy and Awesome.
Here's an example of how Brett looks when he wins.
http://renegademag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/drunk-1.jpg
this is how Slaps looks like when he wins.
http://guitarforworship.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/mosh-pit.jpg
^ any of those guys
This is me.
http://sozlol.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/snoopy-is-joe-cool-peanuts-254005_1024_768.jpg
Here's an example of how Brett looks when he wins.
http://renegademag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/drunk-1.jpg
this is how Slaps looks like when he wins.
http://guitarforworship.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/mosh-pit.jpg
^ any of those guys
This is me.
http://sozlol.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/snoopy-is-joe-cool-peanuts-254005_1024_768.jpg
Palpi
Smash Hero
2 links dont work you dingus
theeboredone
Smash Legend
First one didn't work, but the other 2 do. Fixed the first one.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Bored cheats the Internet, therefore no one may witness what he actually looks like.
Palpi
Smash Hero
forbidden on last one..
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Are you sure? I can view it just fine. You don't happen to have parental settings on do you?
EDIT: w/e, just replaced it with an alternative link.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
Palpi should stop trolling around and let Mr. Doom do the real trolling. These videos below prove that Wolf is not garbage in doubles.
Most Recent Tournament Setting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlgRoCAqUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbg_J_b11IQ
Furthermore... This was also tourney setting (A long time ago, but it still works, I might add), but the highlight of this vid is at the end. Click here for the highlight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZlrlbazOtA
Need I reiterate myself?
Someone's gonna say something smart
Slaps
Smash Lord
Brawl- online anyone? It is possible to play Brawl- online! I was playing it last night on wifi with a friend. Ike is GOD on Brawl- seriously. QD is amazing! if you do a QD in the air you can approach with a Nair straight out of it. You can also interrupt the ground QD attack before it comes out and grab/jab or whatever. At low %s you can QD->upward angled Ftilt. Just remember this is Brawl minus so yeah no one try it on regular brawl lol
Wolf is alright. Pretty reliable I might say, too. Wolf is more of an all-around character in doubles?
Instant-throwing
Anyways, I think I've gotten down instant throwing ~70-90%. When they're in the air I'm fine. When they're on a platform that's even easier. When I'm dropping down from a platform and instant throwing, the timing's a little strict, but I get it most of the time. Same for instant throwing a banana on the ledge when jumping from the ledge. The hardest part I have is short hop, fast fall --> instant throw to a banana on the ground. If I'm not fast falling, or I full hop and fast fall, it's pretty easy, but I can't seem to move my hands fast enough sometimes. I could really see this being pretty useful, especially just making items GTFO
How many ways we can manipulate items
With C-stick attack, there are a lot of ways for us to catch and throw items in the air and on the ground right? Instant throw, Z catch, Dodge, aerial (IMO nair is best, and easiest with cstick attack. Pretty safe even if someone shields or sidesteps). I like Z dropping and dacit the most when trying to hit people. When I DACIT, I test a jab while sliding at them (usually they just shield anyways) then when I'm behind them either jab again or grab. It usually works.
LedgeCamping vs item users
I need to know instant throwing to test out playing vs snake on the edge. If he brings a nade close, aether it and blow it up (possibly him), if he throws it towards you and there's enough time to instant throw it back, do it. I haven't really gotten very far with this, but it's something to try out at least.
Instant-throwing
Anyways, I think I've gotten down instant throwing ~70-90%. When they're in the air I'm fine. When they're on a platform that's even easier. When I'm dropping down from a platform and instant throwing, the timing's a little strict, but I get it most of the time. Same for instant throwing a banana on the ledge when jumping from the ledge. The hardest part I have is short hop, fast fall --> instant throw to a banana on the ground. If I'm not fast falling, or I full hop and fast fall, it's pretty easy, but I can't seem to move my hands fast enough sometimes. I could really see this being pretty useful, especially just making items GTFO
How many ways we can manipulate items
With C-stick attack, there are a lot of ways for us to catch and throw items in the air and on the ground right? Instant throw, Z catch, Dodge, aerial (IMO nair is best, and easiest with cstick attack. Pretty safe even if someone shields or sidesteps). I like Z dropping and dacit the most when trying to hit people. When I DACIT, I test a jab while sliding at them (usually they just shield anyways) then when I'm behind them either jab again or grab. It usually works.
LedgeCamping vs item users
I need to know instant throwing to test out playing vs snake on the edge. If he brings a nade close, aether it and blow it up (possibly him), if he throws it towards you and there's enough time to instant throw it back, do it. I haven't really gotten very far with this, but it's something to try out at least.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
just remember to aether away from the stage if you know you cant recover, that way I can up air you and you dont take me down with you.
other than that I guess we just have to play together more often. *shrug*
Say "aether away" cause my brain can't handle aethering away from the stage from so far away @_@ Just feels wrong.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Mr doom, winning 2 matches with wolf on a team doesn't mean wolf is good. He is probably worse than he is in singles, in doubles.
Mr. Doom
Smash Hero
Dude, I've been teaming with that wolf player ever since March of 2009. We've been placing well in tournaments.
Nothing big. It's cancelling an air dodge catching an item with the A button or Cstick to instantly throw it.
It's just Pressing air dodge then a few frames later hold a direction+A or press the cstick a few frames later.
The thing that makes it difficult is mixing this with moving the Control stick around such as fast falling and amidst the heat of a match where you have to almost have 100% to do it by yourself.
And the thing that makes it useful is that we have 2-3 different ways of throwing (Z drop, DACIT, throwing), and now like 4-5 ways to catch (instant throw, aerial catch, Z catch, catch off ground, etc). Mixed with Ike's long-range aerials and jabs, great item usage will be a great help vs a number of characters.
It's just Pressing air dodge then a few frames later hold a direction+A or press the cstick a few frames later.
The thing that makes it difficult is mixing this with moving the Control stick around such as fast falling and amidst the heat of a match where you have to almost have 100% to do it by yourself.
And the thing that makes it useful is that we have 2-3 different ways of throwing (Z drop, DACIT, throwing), and now like 4-5 ways to catch (instant throw, aerial catch, Z catch, catch off ground, etc). Mixed with Ike's long-range aerials and jabs, great item usage will be a great help vs a number of characters.
Teh Brettster
Smash Master
I've just been upping my item play, as a matter of fact. The most useful thing to learn is Z-catching, IMO. I haven't played around much with instant throwing, though.
I've just been trying to figure out when my opponents throw items, and how to react to a thrown item. You may find that a lot of Diddy players (and maybe Peaches? I haven't played a Peach MAIN in forever) will throw an item at you as you approach. If you're on the ground, powershield it and either jab or grab, because they will run at you to follow up pretty often. This is again dependent on the player.
You can also Z-catch if you want. I find it more useful against bananas than against turnips, because you can do more with a banana.
Once I have an item, I like trying to set up traps or doing little tricks or what have you with it. Well. With bananas. I toss naners upward a lot. If Diddy tries to catch it on its way down, you can do your best to punish him (Nair, etc). If not, you can have a fair fight with him until it lands without worrying about tripping when it does. Sometimes you can even make Diddy trip on the banana (but don't expect it to happen often). I also like edgeguarding with an upward tossed banana, just to make Diddy feel like he has fewer options.
I kind of want to play a Diddy and record a match just to demonstrate how I play with items. Not saying I'm great or I should set some ideal. I just think it would be encouraging for us to get good with items play and possibly come up with new ideas.
tl;dr-- I like bacon.
I've just been trying to figure out when my opponents throw items, and how to react to a thrown item. You may find that a lot of Diddy players (and maybe Peaches? I haven't played a Peach MAIN in forever) will throw an item at you as you approach. If you're on the ground, powershield it and either jab or grab, because they will run at you to follow up pretty often. This is again dependent on the player.
You can also Z-catch if you want. I find it more useful against bananas than against turnips, because you can do more with a banana.
Once I have an item, I like trying to set up traps or doing little tricks or what have you with it. Well. With bananas. I toss naners upward a lot. If Diddy tries to catch it on its way down, you can do your best to punish him (Nair, etc). If not, you can have a fair fight with him until it lands without worrying about tripping when it does. Sometimes you can even make Diddy trip on the banana (but don't expect it to happen often). I also like edgeguarding with an upward tossed banana, just to make Diddy feel like he has fewer options.
I kind of want to play a Diddy and record a match just to demonstrate how I play with items. Not saying I'm great or I should set some ideal. I just think it would be encouraging for us to get good with items play and possibly come up with new ideas.
tl;dr-- I like bacon.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
To throw out some more food for thought, I've had a good friend play around and tell me the frame advantages for Nair to see if it sets up for anything we might not think of (particularly footstools). The data collection is no where near done but at 0% the advantage is like +11 and the highest it gets without putting the opponent into tumble is +18. Keep in mind they are in the air so the don't exactly have an instant 1 frame defensive option either.
I'm still working on it and don't expect anything substantial yet but for the record fresh Nair to footstool to Dair is a guaranteed combo on Mario from about 4% to 16%. Timing is somewhat strict but I don't have any frame data or anything.
Stay frosty, my friends.
I'm still working on it and don't expect anything substantial yet but for the record fresh Nair to footstool to Dair is a guaranteed combo on Mario from about 4% to 16%. Timing is somewhat strict but I don't have any frame data or anything.
Stay frosty, my friends.
benaji261!
Smash Ace
Bored, the last link/pic is of Quiz, not you. 
Slaps, PM me or profile shoutout me and I'll play you sometime on brawl-. Ike IS FREAKIN BEAST. CHARGED ERUPTION? RAAAAPE. and I LOVE they made his QD cancel and you can use it multiple times in the air. Too ****ing good.
Slaps, PM me or profile shoutout me and I'll play you sometime on brawl-. Ike IS FREAKIN BEAST. CHARGED ERUPTION? RAAAAPE. and I LOVE they made his QD cancel and you can use it multiple times in the air. Too ****ing good.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Insta throw nanas up to get them out of the way of you and diddy, works really well.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264193
Read the first 2-3 pages.
Anyone wanna try this with Ike (who actually has tech skill, unlike me) to see if he goes farther then with a normal DACUS?
Read the first 2-3 pages.
Anyone wanna try this with Ike (who actually has tech skill, unlike me) to see if he goes farther then with a normal DACUS?
theeboredone
Smash Legend
Looks like work. Someone else do it.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
The thing is, Diddy Kong doesn't have a Normal DACUS. Look how far he goes with this one. It's threatening to rival our DACIT. >_> And personally, I would love to be able to have a sliding Usmash on demand. Some guy pull this off during Diddy Kong's Fair landing lag. If Ike can do this and well, we may not have to worry about landing lag quite as much anymore. Not that we do in the first place, but we can defiantly screw with people's heads if we can do this out of Uair landing lag. :D
No, it's just regular DACUS. I tested it out. This method allows the DACUS to be initiated in the first possible frames. It just "unlocks" diddy's DACUS, because normal inputs won't work for diddy.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
its really gay, because as much cool stuff as ike (or sonic) can do with items, youre bound to suck at it unless you have at least a somewhat proficient diddy/peach/ZSS player in their area. because doing random stuff in training mode doesnt help you when ur in the heat of the moment against another skilled player.
I have to get my experience from online sadly. I'm fine with all modes of catching and throwing. I just wanted to get instathrow down. I still think in matches I do fairly well with items.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
Dang it. Just Diddy Kong gets lucky eh? I suppose it will help Snake a bit as well considering his aerial landing lag.
•Col•
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,450
I wonder if that new technique Overswarm discovered will help Ike at all. He mentioned it in the new Play2Win podcast episode. Apparently you can cancel your initial dash animation somehow. Now it will be possible to dash dance (well, make it more effective at least), and cancel your dash animation into any move. Seems really cool.... Marth even has a grab release to fsmash on MK now. XD
He said he should be releasing a video/thread about it soon.
He said he should be releasing a video/thread about it soon.
YagamiLight
Smash Champion
If you can cancel your dash animation into any move then I see two possibilities coming from this:
Cancel a dash animation into a standing grab without wasting time on a shield.
Cancel a dash animation into an instant jab.
Now let's think about what move Ike has that affords a frame advantage large enough that Ike can get over to the opponent and benefit from both of these things.
Hint: It's a throw.
Hint 2: Actually there are two of them.
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