Ashunera’s Library - General Discussion, Q&A and Index

[theeboredone]

Hi guys,

Well, well, well...look who came back crawling.

I'm not exactly the go to guy on that kinda stuff, but I consider Jiggz, Samus, Ness, and Zelda to be 4 characters...that if played well can be REALLY annoying to Ike. Jiggz can camp you hard and respond with quick attacks. A perfect video would be Kimchi vs San. San did some good stuff against Kimchi's Ike. Samus...projectiles, ledge camping, Z-air...the match up is in her favor anyways. Ness is even with Ike, and I have played some really good Ness players that have kicked my ***. Zelda can hold her own against Ike. She's more of a different opponent compared to others, because a lot of her attacks have multiple hits, making your spot and air dodge useless. Though if you play campy, Ike wins that match up.

Yoshi can interrupt Ike's jabs, and he can egg camp from the edge which is super annoying. The only thing he lacks is a legit killing move. Also, he can grab you out of aether and essentially kill you like that.

With that being said, you should also state that MK probably has less "even" match ups in comparison to Ike in LT, so if you're gonna ban Ike for LT, then ban MK for regulars.

I'm posting too much on the boards!
*Goes back to lurking and ****** school with Bored.

Someone worships me too much. Get yo chinky eyes off of me. Unless it's a hot azn chick...other then that, get your eyes off of me.

 

[Kimchi]

Well, well, well...look who came back crawling.

I'm not exactly the go to guy on that kinda stuff, but I consider Jiggz, Samus, Ness, and Zelda to be 4 characters...that if played well can be REALLY annoying to Ike. Jiggz can camp you hard and respond with quick attacks. A perfect video would be Kimchi vs San. San did some good stuff against Kimchi's Ike. Samus...projectiles, ledge camping, Z-air...the match up is in her favor anyways. Ness is even with Ike, and I have played some really good Ness players that have kicked my ***. Zelda can hold her own against Ike. She's more of a different opponent compared to others, because a lot of her attacks have multiple hits, making your spot and air dodge useless. Though if you play campy, Ike wins that match up.

Yoshi can interrupt Ike's jabs, and he can egg camp from the edge which is super annoying. The only thing he lacks is a legit killing move. Also, he can grab you out of aether and essentially kill you like that.

With that being said, you should also state that MK probably has less "even" match ups in comparison to Ike in LT, so if you're gonna ban Ike for LT, then ban MK for regulars.



Someone worships me too much. Get yo chinky eyes off of me. Unless it's a hot azn chick...other then that, get your eyes off of me.

Speak for yourself, son!
10iusedthatphraseasanexampleformyarguments

 

[Ussi]

D
Yoshi 5-5

Yoshi is at least 55-45,Ike's fair and Yoshi's lack of a killing move make it so.

 

[YagamiLight]

D
Bowser 55-45
Zelda 55-45/6-4
Pokemon Trainer 55-45/6-4
Ike

E
Lucas 55-45
Mario 5-5/45-55
Ness 5-5
Yoshi 5-5
Samus 4-6

F
Jigglypuff 6-4
Captain Falcon 6-4
Link 55-45
Ganondorf 65-35

They are scrubs for banning Ike if they do.

Yoshi is probably 5.5-4.5, as is Jiggs (6-4 might be too much). Captain Falcon is probably 65-35.

Mario is not a disadvantage despite what the silly Mario boards want to think.

 

[Meneil]

Thanks guys, especially NintendoFreak.

I pretty much agree with what you guys said.

Soo does anyone randomly happen to know about the low tier match-ups for Bowser? xD i should probably ask the Bowser boards or try to find it. But generally Bowser's match-ups would be better than Ike's due to grab game right?

Edit: looked it up, looks like Bowser's match-ups are about even >.> nm

 

[YagamiLight]

Thanks guys, especially NintendoFreak.

I pretty much agree with what you guys said.

Soo does anyone randomly happen to know about the low tier match-ups for Bowser? xD i should probably ask the Bowser boards or try to find it. But generally Bowser's match-ups would be better than Ike's due to grab game right?

Edit: looked it up, looks like Bowser's match-ups are about even >.> nm

Bowser does better against Lucas and Ness than Ike (+20 grab release advantage? Yes please!) but he probably does worse against everyone else. Ike's benefit isn't so much the ridiculous strength, his range plays a key role in match-ups such as v. Mario and Yoshi.

The best characters in "Low Tier" right now are (in my opinion, of course) Ike, PT and then Zelda. Despite the Zelda hate train her tools work quite well against the low tiers and PT is pretty good against low tiers not named Ike in general. And despite being mildly boned by PT and Bowser Ness is still a good character in general. I don't consider Ike and Ness Low Tier anyway so don't pay me too much attention :}

 

[Slaps]

Thanks guys, especially NidtendoFreak.

Fix'd =D....
So how are all the ikes doing? Bored are you coming up to Phase 5? I need to place well at Phase 5, I can't keep screwing up in tournament. I still don't know what it is that causes me to screw up so much, usually I'm fine but for some reason I still have problems.

Also for the first time, last night, I camped someone. Not with Ike though, I was playing with this dude i play on wifi a lot with, and he has a cheap strategy of approaching with short hop air dodge and then basically c-sticking. I had told him at offline stuff he would get punished for it, grab/jab/etc. But he told me to find a way around it, so what I did was, I went ness and the entire game i waited/baited him to airdodge toward me and every time he would i would grab him =D. The games took like 5-6min I made him rage afterward because i was doing it. XD lmao

 

[metroid1117]

Also for the first time, last night, I camped someone. Not with Ike though, I was playing with this dude i play on wifi a lot with, and he has a cheap strategy of approaching with short hop air dodge and then basically c-sticking. I had told him at offline stuff he would get punished for it, grab/jab/etc. But he told me to find a way around it, so what I did was, I went ness and the entire game i waited/baited him to airdodge toward me and every time he would i would grab him =D. The games took like 5-6min I made him rage afterward because i was doing it. XD lmao

That's mean. You should've just USmashed him with Ike instead .

 

[HeroMystic]

Mario is not a disadvantage despite what the silly Mario boards want to think.

Someone's cruise'n for a bruise'n.

 

[Slaps]

That's mean. You should've just USmashed him with Ike instead .

Well he chose mostly characters that have fast smash attacks and not all the airdodges were easy to predict. He would always do it while he was a distance away or if he was on the edge he would ledge jump and airdodge down. Also timing Usmashes on wifi sucks ahaha, So I just went with Ness since my ness is pimp and his Bthrow kills at like 100-120% lol. Also I am starting to charge Usmash after any fthrow/bthrow since about 75% of the time the person i play Spot dodges or tries to roll behind me so it pretty much covers either of those 2 options only other thing he can do is shield which if he starts doing constantly I can grab. Only other option really is to jump, unless he can get an attack out or counter, but If I am holding Usmash I can hit him when countering frames end.

 

[theeboredone]

Bored are you coming up to Phase 5?

No. -Random letters to fill up 10 letter requirement.-

 

[Teh Brettster]

Lame. SOME day, we'll be in the same place again. I want to enter a teams tourney again, lol. The only way I'll enter a teams tourney is either with Sethlon or Phoenix Alpha in LT dubs. And I haven't been at any LT events in a while.

 

[Palpi]

If Apex 2010 has low tier doubles, me and AB gon' be ******.

My Mario will be the **** by then, if we don't wanna go double ****.

APEX 2010 FIRST WEEK OF AUGUST! BE THERE!

 

[•Col•]

I'm almost definitely going to be there, Palpi. Let's try to play more matches next time, lol.

 

[YagamiLight]

So I had nothing to do and was just looking at Ike videos on Youtube and I was watching one of Kirk's matches and saw something I thought was mildly interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknjSVbJ-G4

Can anyone tell me what exactly happens at ~1:29 to 1:32? Because it looks like Quick Draw has invincibility. The Quick Draw was unphased by the C4 at all. It's not a hitbox thing as Ike was clearly in the blast radius.

 

[HeroMystic]

Check the hitbox, because that's what it's looking like to me.

 

[san.]

I think he was a little too high. It didn't look like he was exactly above the C4 either.

 

[metroid1117]

So I had nothing to do and was just looking at Ike videos on Youtube and I was watching one of Kirk's matches and saw something I thought was mildly interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknjSVbJ-G4

Can anyone tell me what exactly happens at ~1:29 to 1:32? Because it looks like Quick Draw has invincibility. The Quick Draw was unphased by the C4 at all. It's not a hitbox thing as Ike was clearly in the blast radius.

That's really weird, I don't know what happened. Perhaps if you QD immediately after jumping from the edge, you retain your invincibility?

 

[Acedude55]

Level 18 cpu code?

I must see this

Also yeah...that seems a bit weird.

 

[YagamiLight]

I used my extreme print screen / paint abilities to still screen the important parts. I'm pretty sure that's in Snake's C4 hitbox range, haha.

I slightly stretched the second image to make it bigger but I don't think it makes a difference as far as the hitbox visual goes.

 

[-RedX-]

Can't even explain that....lol
Try asking Snake boards.

 

[Palpi]

**** i forgot about colaya.

We are teaming if AB doesn't go, so we are prolly teaming. Low tiers =]

 

[MysticKenji]

I think he was a little too high.

I agree with this.
Seems to me that the C4's hitboxes had been terminated before Ike fell into the explosion GFX.

 

[•Col•]

**** i forgot about colaya.

We are teaming if AB doesn't go, so we are prolly teaming. Low tiers =]

Ok, that's cool.

Has it even been confirmed that they're doing Low Tiers, let alone Low Tier Doubles? lol

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I was being generous with the MU numbers, hence Mario possibly being a 45-55.

I mean, if I had to name another disadvantage, it would be Mario. But I doubt it.

 

[Teh Brettster]

Maybe it's just San's ******** puff, but I find Jiggz to be.. not in our favor.. probably even-matched.


Also, Metroid's theory could MAYBE make sense to me. I mean, Ike was right in that blast box.

 

[-RedX-]

I asked a friend on AiB about the C4 thing, he said:

"The hitbox above the c4 has a very small vertical height. I know this because there is a trick with snake where you press down b while short hopping (activating the c4 and leaving snake unharmed), although there is no conventional use for this as of now."

I'm still not sure though but that might be it lol

 

[Palpi]

Red-x is probably right. I too have noticed its lack of vertical hitbox.

 

[metroid1117]

Red-x is probably right. I too have noticed its lack of vertical hitbox.

It's apparently lacking a hitbox above it, but it's hitbox below it is ridiculous; I can't find it right now, but there's a video of a Jigglypuff going under Smashville getting hit by a C4 that was on the stage. Granted, the Jigglypuff was touching the stage's bottom, but that is still pretty ridiculous.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

I have a question. Is Ike blessed by Ashera, or not? People are really getting confused here. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235552&page=663

 

[HeroMystic]

Seems like no one in there has ever played Fire Emblem. <_<

 

[san.]

Mario never really seems that tough, but maybe that's just a skewed opinion.


Jigglypuff, it's just that I know how to play vs Ike, lol.
I facepalm when I get killed ridiculously early as jigypuf. Onstage, it is really pretty hard, and sometimes it feels I'll never be able to get a kill, but once you're offstage, I feel like I can practically do anything to you.

 

[-RedX-]

It's apparently lacking a hitbox above it, but it's hitbox below it is ridiculous; I can't find it right now, but there's a video of a Jigglypuff going under Smashville getting hit by a C4 that was on the stage. Granted, the Jigglypuff was touching the stage's bottom, but that is still pretty ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz6QhHG6FU8#t=0m25s
It's better when it's happening to MK

 

[YagamiLight]

I double checked with a friend as well and it really seems as if the C4 has virtually no upwards vertical hitbox.

I'd try to convey my disappointment through words but this probably does a better job:

 

[Teh Brettster]

I tried your footstool idea several times, Light.

Results made me feel like...

well...

 

[-RedX-]

At least we found out something about Snake's C4 that could be useful later on =/
Yeeeeea, I also tried out the footstool idea a few times, they always seem to hit me as I chase them in the air but I can bait it at times.
Following up with full hop Fair/Nair/Bair is probably better than footstooling.

 

[Teh Brettster]

It's not always the baiting that's tough. Conditioning certain characters by hitting them a couple times with full hop Nair, etc, can make them air dodge next time. It's that.. heavy characters will be at the ground by the time you footstool them, and light characters will be hit too hard by the Fair to force a getup. Not to mention how stupidly difficult it is to footstool someone out of an air dodge. I really, really wish it could work practically, because it is such an awesome idea, but... if it ever happens, it will happen once. Ever.


Edit:
Ike vid v2. For real. This Spring. I want.

 

[YagamiLight]

I need ask a friend to help me better convey the frame data of a footstool, probably via a video. I would recommend using full hop Nair past early percents anyway if only for the juggling aspect. You wouldn't expect the Nair to actually be good for juggling but well, it is. Also fun fact the time the hitbox of Nair is out (15-32) actually outlasts Peach's airdodge (4-19), haha. If an airdodge and Nair are both started at the same time Nair will always hit them (if the hitbox is next to them, of course!) as no airdodge has invincibility past frame 31 (which is Bowser).

Food for thought.

 

[san.]

I double checked with a friend as well and it really seems as if the C4 has virtually no upwards vertical hitbox.

I'd try to convey my disappointment through words but this probably does a better job:

My von karma snake pic: *laughs*

What is this footstool thing I am hearing about here? Is it from a throw or something?


Nair is really good vs characters who don't have the range to combat it, so positioning is pretty key, but it's hard to find that correct positioning against some characters.

 

[YagamiLight]

Yeah your Von Karma Snake reminded me of the GIF site.

Anyway the footstool thing is from a Down Throw and if you do everything perfectly you can footstool them and it lead to some combos. Hard to do, fairly impractical. Very cool.