Apex 2013 - Pools up in OP! - Only at the door for FGC!

[W.C.N]

Then they should play a lot of matches here, they won't be tourney because they didn't practice enough before coming, there's still tons of time for friendlies, and those people who don't have enough time for the game before the tourney shouldn't get special privilege over those who did

 

[SFA Smiley]

I bought a doubles ticket because I figured SOMEONE wouldn't have a partner and i'd just jump in.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Having time for the game is in itself a special privilege o_<

 

[W.C.N]

Trust me stef I know I'm at work 90% of the time I'm on here

 

[BSL]

My tag is asa XD I've used it at all my tournies, asa Akira was a name change I had on here for a couple months lol

And oldmangrey, I'm both Hawaiian and canadian

Hawaiian bryaaaaaannnnn

 

[Alex Strife]

Everyone,

In regards to pools we WILL be stopping at Grand Finals. That means WF and LF will be played. BE ON NOTICE that due to time it will be 2/3 but it is pools so it won't be as big of a deal.

Now remember for Top 8 EVERYTHING IS 3/5 for Smash. That means MORE hype matches and MORE long EPIC sets.

Be on time guys cause our DQ rule is as follows :

5 mins late you lose a match
10 mins you lose a set

There will be A GIANT DIGTAL CLOCK KEEPING TIME. IF THAT CLOCK PASSES THE TIME YOU SHOULD BE THERE YO WILL BE DQ.

 

[Player-1]

god dammit **** olimar

 

[Jmorsch]

Doubles Top 8 3/5 or just singles?

 

[Kite91]

when do we get doubles bracket?

 

[Alex Strife]

singles only

 

[JTsm]

Saw 95 brawl teams earlier today, now it's 94... :O

 

[Jim Morrison]

First of all, MELEE pools were not what held up the tournament last year. Not to turn this into Melee vs. barlw, but all of Melee's setups were stolen for the entirety of day 2 just so barlw could finish their pools. Melee was done on DAY 1. You say bracket pools will go by fast, as if that's a good thing.

Low level players complaining about only getting 2 matches for their $15 entry fee is PERFECTLY legitimate. Sure, people can play friendlies and do other stuff after their tournament matches, but for the people that come FOR THE TOURNAMENT MATCHES, they are getting royally ****ed. The whole idea of bracket pools just discourages newer players from entering at all. Why would they waste their money entering when it's only going to buy them two sets, at least one of which is guaranteed to be a curb stomping by a top player? They could just spend $20 for the spectator fee instead of spending $50 to enter and get the same experience minus two tournament sets. Why are we charging $15 per set? That's ridiculous. They might as well MM two people for $15. At least then they would have a chance of actually making money instead of wasting it.

Saying **** like "get better instead of complaining" is ******** because instead of getting better, a lot of new players will just quit. Who can blame them? Why would I want to try to improve at a game with a community that nickels and dimes less skilled players at every corner? New players should be given the best treatment possible because they are the ones filling the pot without any expectation to get a return. The top players are the ones who will enter even if they don't get the most "fun" format for them because they are more interested in competing with other top level players, not getting in the most number of tournament sets to improve and have a new experience.

QFT, every single player should get at least 4 sets played, be it in a bracket and then having an amateur bracket, or just having pools. Pools is definitely the best because then new players get to face both the top level player (one per pool hopefully) and players nearer to their level, so they still get -some- excitement out of it, in that they can win a set.

No one should go through the horror of only playing 2 sets in a tournament with an entry fee of over 10 dollars.

 

[Alex Strife]

I addressed all of that in my posts

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15222498&postcount=4456

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15223082&postcount=4486

 

[W.C.N]

Why change it to gfs now?

 

[Alex Strife]

We have the time + We felt it would help give us better seeding

 

[GDX]

giant digital clock?

dat Persona status

 

[JTsm]

QFT, every single player should get at least 4 sets played, be it in a bracket and then having an amateur bracket, or just having pools. Pools is definitely the best because then new players get to face both the top level player (one per pool hopefully) and players nearer to their level, so they still get -some- excitement out of it, in that they can win a set.

No one should go through the horror of only playing 2 sets in a tournament with an entry fee of over 10 dollars.

A couple things:

1. Bracket Pools were decided a long time ago. Preparation on the player's part to get better is the fault of the player, not the TO.

2. Alex already explained that there was little time to do RR pools. He even had the information MONTHS prior to the date. It's up to the player decide whether or not they could join. This is a stacked tournament and if you're not prepared, then you're ****ed. End of story. Information was already said about bracket pools and how it was going to be done.

3. The price is high, but there's a lot of hype behind it, so the TO's can get away with that. lol. And it's your choice to pay, so you really don't have to go.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Why are people so adamant on playing so many people in tournament? Didn't all of you complain last time that the tournament took too long. I mean really. Unless you are a top player, you go to Apex for friendlies, MM's and such. If this was normal pools, there would have to be a second round and that would take even longer. It would be like last year but even worse as there are more people.
Do you honestly want a tournament that could only potentially finish on time if there were 2 pools of 6 in both games if the games lasted from 10:00 AM to 4:00 AM the next day? It wouldn't be fun and it would be stressful like the previous apex ending.

If this was 4 days or if we were guaranteed enough Wii's/GC's to make it so pools could be finished in record time, then yeah, Alex could have made pools. But Alex is smart as he knew that there would not be enough as the smash community does not spell the word "reliable" outside of paying for people to show up. If you want there to be pools, bring along a wii, or 3, and do not wait for the last 30 seconds to register for singles or to change your teams partner. I knew my partner over a month before I registered. I informed the staff directly when I realized that I didn't want to play brawl and asked them how I could make it so my partner and I were teaming. I have been registered for months unlike probably 100 or even more of you.

vvv, also this.

 

[Alex Strife]

do not forget that price is the same as last year.

 

[Stockfield]

taking any and all yugioh money matches, 5 or 10 dollars

​

I'll do it.

$5

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

On a more random note, someone is bringing along Pokemon Puzzle League, aka Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon. Looking for Money Matches.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Today I decided I wasn't obnoxious enough yet, so I did this:

Spoiler

#fashionista

 

[oksas]

wow. i've been thinking of a way to help distinguish myself at the tourney to make it easy to find me for mms and stuff and doing a custom shirt is something i thought would be neat. how did ya do that?

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

On a more random note, someone is bringing along Pokemon Puzzle League, aka Tetris Attack/Panel de Pon. Looking for Money Matches.

I'll body you.

garbage
Level 3 or 5
preferably with 64 pads

however much you want it doesn't matter

 

[pidgezero_one]

wow. i've been thinking of a way to help distinguish myself at the tourney to make it easy to find me for mms and stuff and doing a custom shirt is something i thought would be neat. how did ya do that?

I just stuck the pic on a usb and went to a shop downtown to get it printed today. Actually took 5 minutes.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

I'll body you.

garbage
Level 3 or 5
preferably with 64 pads

however much you want it doesn't matter

Sounds great, I have a 64 controller, if you don't I guess you'll have to borrow one. Only have 1 with me.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15206895#post15206895 You should see this post/this thread.

 

[SheerMadness]

Seriously though when are the new updated melee pools coming out?

I just want to be included in a pool like everyone else. =E

 

[Kite91]

i just want doubles posted lol

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Sounds great, I have a 64 controller, if you don't I guess you'll have to borrow one. Only have 1 with me.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=15206895#post15206895 You should see this post/this thread.

Yeah, my 64 is still in East Coast so I'll have to borrow one. Hopefully that won't be a problem.

But I'll take each and every MM available. You guys have no idea what you're in for.

 

[LOE1]

i am dissapoint pidgezero. needs way more
nah but rly, cool shirt. i rly should try to make one of those sometime.

...although people will just look for the wario timing people out in friendlies

 

[Player-1]

that's all of the warios though

 

[pidgezero_one]

i am dissapoint pidgezero. needs way more
nah but rly, cool shirt. i rly should try to make one of those sometime.

...although people will just look for the wario timing people out in friendlies

I may bring my Kirby hat.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

crimson lets mm for like 1-5. it's been a long time since we've gotten to play.

 

[bertbusdriver]

Hey all,
I see a lot of complaints about last year. I saw it like this. Our issue was people did not bring enough setups to do what we wanted. IF you do the math...RR ( 6 ppl per pool with 3 tvs each ) takes 50 mins BEST CASE SCENARIO and let's say 1.5 hours.

mix in that people will play both and that NO ONE ( even in the setup thread) would bring setups ( I counted 10-15 at most ). It will take 12+ hours to do everything PER DAY. So now people are dead tired, playing in a RR format and then sleeping late which hurts the overall play. Apex is about your best NOT endurance. No one should be forced to play in anything tournament worthy at midnight.


Now think about all that and remember the ONE thing people wanted above all...FRIENDLIES. You all want friendlies and were very VERY adamant about it. How are you going to get friendlies when all this time SUGGESTS that there will NOT be there.


I understand the concerns and trust me if I Was ABLE TO I would find a way. Point is though, that the newcomers/low level players/etc will STILL have a great time playing and meeting new people via friendlies, walking around, etc.

Alex, I love what you've done for this community, and I understand that you had to make tough decisions and work your butt off for each APEX. But I still strongly disagree with the decision to do bracket pools.

Bracket pools
Low level/newbie players are the backbone of our community. You ****ed them hard with this decision. They're paying $50 for venue + entry for just singles as opposed to $20 to spectate/play friendlies. Even when you're technically eliminated from the tournament in RR pools, it's still great to be able to get legitimate serious sets against other players. Especially top players that perhaps wouldn't waste their time doing a $1-2 MM with you. Friendlies do not come anywhere near the sweaty palms, sheer adrenaline that come with serious matches.

I'm aware of the complaints that people wanted more friendlies last year, but to sacrifice tournament matches for more friendlies seems rather silly to me. (Although at least justified when you combine it with the time constraints you mention.)

Obviously RR pools would be feasible with more setups, so here's a bit on that:

Regarding lack of setups
Last year, there was a raffle for a 3DS instead of a setup discount. Offering a $10-15 discount for setups probably would have increased the number of setups by at least a few. I'm not sure if this is a typo, but you're saying 10-15 people brought setups besides tournament staff!?? SMYM 13 had less than 1/3 of the entrants, and we had at least 19 setups. I offered a $10 setup discount off of $10 venue fee to help achieve this. Additionally, you've already said that you've worked to rectify the "lack of setups" issue from last year by purchasing and providing TVs.

I also haven't heard of any incentive system for people bringing setups this year other than "so it'll be a good event." We'll all be surprised when we get a weak community effort to bring setups again.


Perhaps I'm being a little self-serving with this statement as someone that only plays melee competitively, but it's a shame that the quality of this event is being sacrificed for scale. If 3 days is too difficult to run competitions for 10 games with the resources you have, perhaps 10 games is too many.


Criticism aside, I'm still really looking forward to APEX, and I'm sure I"ll still have a great time.

 

[xDD-Master]

Also dont forget my post.

Round Robin with Bo1 would be better than bracket pools IMO. Players pay a lot of money to get there, and enter the tournament, just to play someone like Nairo or whoever, and get directly to losers bracket. With RR Bo1 you get the same amount of matches, while still getting some people on/above/below your level, mostly, without being (nearly) eliminated by losing 1 set. But I guess, it's too late to change that by now. It could be 5 Stocks as well for example. That would probably be a good compromise overall. But even not, its still better IMO.

I wonder how big the time difference is between Bo1 RR with 10 people and a Bracket Pool Bo3 Matches with 10 people...
Lets try to calculate that. Lets say we have 32 TVs for Brawl. Therefore only 1 TV for every pool. Most Matches take approx. around 5 Minutes.

With 10 people RR, that would mean sum(1to9) Matches -> 45 Matches. If they all take 5 minutes, that would be 225 Minutes to complete one pool. Approx. ~4 Hours.

Now for the Double Elimination Bracket with 10 People, WF and LSF, LF, GF not being played out. But sets are Bo3.
A set would take ~15 Minutes. (Extra time for banning/counterpicking added, but most sets only end with 2 matches, without the third match). I used Pool 1 to count the total amount of matches: 14 Matches for that Bracket Pool. That means 14 * 15 Minutes = 210 Minutes. That's 3 1/2 hours.

So, seems like Bo1 RR would be almost the same, time wise. Maybe a poll would've been a good solution. Should probably be done for the next APEX if its too late now, which I guess, is the case.

Or is Bo1 Pools no option at all for you? If so, why exactly?

 

[Alex Strife]

so what i am getting is no friendlies hm?

 

[GDX]

I'm not going to go through and state my detailed opinions/logic again for the 100th time, but I will just say that all the people *****ing about bracket pools please just either:

A. Shut the **** up, and dont enter the tourney
B. Shut the **** up, and enter the tourney
C. Shut the **** up, and shut the **** up

 

[crismas]

This thread...

 

[Alex Strife]

I explained why we won't do the standard. The low levels will have a great time playing friendlies. Happened at SKtar and will happen again.

 

[Tesh]

We have the time + We felt it would help give us better seeding

Sounds like a waste of time since its already decided... Will people even bother trying in GF if getting to WF means you already got out?

You guys can talk about accuracy all you want, but its been proven (in your precious japanese scene) that pools can be done differently and still have "accurate" results without taking a whole lot of time.

To all the anti-complainers, don't get the wrong idea about anyone pointing things out or making suggestions. Sometimes TOs are wrong and don't realize until something until its pointed out. No one is forcing anything on Apex staff. If I didn't respect them enough to expect a reasonable response I wouldn't bother saying anything.