Infern Angelis
Smash Master
Michigan should have come to the tournament in Indiana today!
and no i dont search Angelis lol no one calls me that
and no i dont search Angelis lol no one calls me that
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Alright guys, we've got **** to do
- Thread starter Yumewomiteru
- Start date
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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I am calling you angelis from now on. This will disguise my posts from you 
Anyone have anythign snakey to discuss? Or is this just another social thread to us?
Anyone have anythign snakey to discuss? Or is this just another social thread to us?
Infern Angelis
Smash Master
I found out yesterday that if an Ike is charging his side B, i can crouch with my head facing away from him and it wont hit me if he realeases it, plus the ike will get side B lag, which u can use to land a free f-tilt, up-tilt, or whatever. Shows how much i know about this game lol
Underload
Lazy
Neat trick, Infern.
I just found out yesterday that you're 25% lighter when charging smash attacks.
I just found out yesterday that you're 25% lighter when charging smash attacks.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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That would explain why something else happens. If you hit someone when they are charging a smash attack with ftilt, then it no longer combos into the 2nd hit.
Morningstar
Smash Journeyman
This.I need a "SDI for Dummies" guide or something because I can only do it with certain moves.
I mostly SDI moves and it'll come out as a bair. It goes without say that it doesn't always hit lol. Any tips for Pika's bair?
RATED
Smash Lord
I practice SDI in three ways: Sandbagging vs CPU, with two controllers in training mode or Sandbagging in friendlies when I want to know how to SDI by X move so that I let myself hit by the move.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I learned that you cannot boost grab or boost pivot grab if there is an item next to you when you do the dash attack (if you would pick up the item, you will pick it up), you will just dash attack. you can dacus however.
AfroQT
Smash Master
For dthrows (MY FAVORITE PART OF SNAKE)
Its a good idea to be aware of characters that have terrible get up attacks. Pretty much when it comes down to it, the hardest part of tech chasing is guessing if they're going to roll or do an attack. Most attacks are to fast to react to, but if they attack in front of them first, you have alot of time to react. An example of a GREAT get up attack is DK. He literally hits behind him, instantly, you cant possibly react to that haha. A bad getup is D3's, he slowly attacks in front of him first.
As usual, MK has a ****ing amazing get up (attacks behind him, very fast, and the SECOND HIT can hit you from behind as well. BUT NO SURPRISE MK # 1)
IM HELPING THE COMMUNITY I HOPE
Its a good idea to be aware of characters that have terrible get up attacks. Pretty much when it comes down to it, the hardest part of tech chasing is guessing if they're going to roll or do an attack. Most attacks are to fast to react to, but if they attack in front of them first, you have alot of time to react. An example of a GREAT get up attack is DK. He literally hits behind him, instantly, you cant possibly react to that haha. A bad getup is D3's, he slowly attacks in front of him first.
As usual, MK has a ****ing amazing get up (attacks behind him, very fast, and the SECOND HIT can hit you from behind as well. BUT NO SURPRISE MK # 1)
IM HELPING THE COMMUNITY I HOPE
is this actually proven? i had no idea...
lilseph
Smash Ace
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IIRC yes it is proven.
Berserker.
:^)
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I don't charge my smashes that much often.
Does this mean that some objects or actions have effect on the attributes of characters? Just asking.
-Ran
Smash Master
It's proven, and it's the only time the properties of your character will be changed during a normal tournament match on a nonretarded stage. Toon Link actually has a combo on characters with his Zair's knockback if they are charging an attack. At least that's what Hyro told me.
RATED
Smash Lord
I though that anyone knew that :/, specially all of you that spend a lot of time on the boards.
PS: I hope I didnt sound like a jerk.
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Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Darkshadow7827
Smash Lord
That's interesting. I didn't know about Shield DI. In a way, it's shield DI/SDI since you're supposed to use C-stick according to the thread? I think I'll have to practice this later. Hopefully this will help us maintain our shield if we can shield DI away from MKs nado.
Underload
Lazy
So yeah, you're 25% lighter when charging smashes. If for some dumb reason you want to charge a mortar instead of PSing when predicting a tornado, you get out of the tornado really easily, and you can sometimes punish with dair or bair.
The whole smash attack thing is really useful in the MK ditto, because if MK can space his fsmash welll he hits his opponent out of the tornado. If he doesn't space it correctly, it's disgustingly easy to get out and punish with dair. I guess Wario, Marth, and maybe Falco could take advantage, too.
I learned all of this this weekend.
The whole smash attack thing is really useful in the MK ditto, because if MK can space his fsmash welll he hits his opponent out of the tornado. If he doesn't space it correctly, it's disgustingly easy to get out and punish with dair. I guess Wario, Marth, and maybe Falco could take advantage, too.
I learned all of this this weekend.
hey question
anyone remember ages ago that it was discovered that snake could ff his sh dair on the third hit, then start another dair in the hitsun? from memory i remember trying it out, and from memory, it worked. only problem was people would always di the second one...
that being said, i think its safe to assume that ftilt/utilt/grab come out faster than a dair when you include jump frames, so logically, the 3rd hit of dair should combo into them, unless the opponent pops up afterward (this doesnt appear di related, but it does appear to happen more against light characters).
what do people think?
anyone remember ages ago that it was discovered that snake could ff his sh dair on the third hit, then start another dair in the hitsun? from memory i remember trying it out, and from memory, it worked. only problem was people would always di the second one...
that being said, i think its safe to assume that ftilt/utilt/grab come out faster than a dair when you include jump frames, so logically, the 3rd hit of dair should combo into them, unless the opponent pops up afterward (this doesnt appear di related, but it does appear to happen more against light characters).
what do people think?
Underload
Lazy
Test it out against some CPUs and report back. Seems like it could do something.
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I believe I saw Ally try it in a few vids. and iirc M2K was able to get out of the hitstun w/o landing on the ground. Perhaps he SDI'ed well and it may work if the opponent doesn't, should get hitstun data hmmm.
TwentyTwo
Smash Ace
If I remember correctly, it had to do with the third hit having a really high tripping rate doesn't it?
And has anyone tested the crouching on a playing opponent? It seems to me most people will roll forward if they see you do it. And just btw, it's player specific, but generally what I see is, if you walk forward after you dthrow, they'll generally try a get up attack, if you turn your back, they roll forward. This is just things I observe and try to remember for opponents, of course they always try to mix it up, but for some reactions, people don't change on the fly in tourney.
And has anyone tested the crouching on a playing opponent? It seems to me most people will roll forward if they see you do it. And just btw, it's player specific, but generally what I see is, if you walk forward after you dthrow, they'll generally try a get up attack, if you turn your back, they roll forward. This is just things I observe and try to remember for opponents, of course they always try to mix it up, but for some reactions, people don't change on the fly in tourney.
ok, id love some frame data for dair hitstun. obviously, if they trip, you hit with whatever, although the probability of tripping is too small to be significant. however, it appears that sometimes, when the opponent gets 'knocked down', i could buffer a jab against the cpu before it did anything. this only worked if the third hit of dair hit just before i hit the ground. that being said, it was just against the cpu, so its hard to know if its true.
another note, light characters get knocked into the air on the third hit unless they get knocked down or trip. this give you an opportunity to frame trap an airdodge or bait an aerial, though (although some characters seem to have no issues using an aerial before your lag ends).
another note, light characters get knocked into the air on the third hit unless they get knocked down or trip. this give you an opportunity to frame trap an airdodge or bait an aerial, though (although some characters seem to have no issues using an aerial before your lag ends).
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
This thread has proven to be very useful.
@Infern: We had to welcome back Vayseth D:
Host something so Michigan has an excuse to come out to Ohio. I'll drag Judge with me also lol
@Infern: We had to welcome back Vayseth D:
Host something so Michigan has an excuse to come out to Ohio. I'll drag Judge with me also lol
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I think the whole charging Usmash against MK's Nado thing is worth testing. If it is true that we can indeed get out and Bair, it would be a great option for us, testing needed lol.
iFudge
Banned via Warnings
i want snake to drop :O i'll be soo happy then i can go back using him :O
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
Pretty sure that everyone know this, but if you are holding a nade (or any item) and you buffer an aerial out of Cypher or C4 detonation, you will do the aerial with the nade in the hand.
Limeee
Smash Champion
what are the shield advantages of ftilt,dtilt, uptilt and jab or auto cancelled nair or something
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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All negative except for Nair that is indeed auto-canceled by the double jump.what are the shield advantages of ftilt,dtilt, uptilt and jab or auto cancelled nair or something
Yumewomiteru
Smash Master
I don't think an autocanceled nair will even hit shield, unless they are on a platform and you land on the ground. You have to FF it and then recieve the same lag as a FH Nair.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
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You can have it hit shields if you time the FF correctly on the double jump. If you FF too early, you will cause the 4th hit to not even come out. If you FF too late you will do as you described and retain the same lag as a normal FH Nair. But, with proper timing you can FF and still retain the auto-cancel.
I hate when I turn my wii off, then only to turn it back on to reconfirm something.
I hate when I turn my wii off, then only to turn it back on to reconfirm something.
didnt know this... thanks
oh, and just for anyone who was interesting, i played around with dair a couple of times today against diddy. the third hit knocked him up, but normally he would buffer an aerial/airdodge in trying to sdi out, meaning that i could utilt him straight after. neat trick
Elyssa Xey Hexen
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"Nair/Dair are horrible moves. Your enemies can DI out of them. Don't consider using them."
^Troll's opinion
^Troll's opinion
Although I don't use Snake in tourney anymore [outside of doubles] I'm still interested in keeping his meta game up to par and I believe that people start to underrate this character more and more.
What I've been thinking of lately [but haven't actually tried yet] is to use jab -> dair as a close range mix-up. A good close range game and effective mix-ups are an important factor in competitive Brawl and many times it can make the difference between winning and losing. In the european meta game such mix-ups with grabs, tilts, jabs and aerials are fairly common [which is probably why Diddy Kong and Falco are so popular over here].
Snake doesn't seem to be the kind of character that can just throw out an aerial after jabbing an opponent at first sight but I can imagine his dair being a very effective shield poke in close range game as well as a move to punish spotdodges and even predictable rolls.
The tactic is risky but unless you are at very high percent the risk / reward ratio doesn't look unbalanced in my eyes. Dair will always beat spotdodge, with a correct read you will also be able to punish the opponent if he rolls towards you.
This is all just hypothetical and I have to try this out tomorrow first to see if it's viable but I'm positive that it can be an effective mix-up if used in smart combination with grab, ftilt, dacus and even fsmash.
I feel like Snake players could perform a lot better if they had better mix-up that go beyond the predictable jab -> ftilt or jab -> grab. Learing and studying close range mix-ups will almost always guarantee improvement and few things are more frightening for your opponent than to be constantly outplayed in close range.
I also believe that good use of crouching dtilt as well as dash attack / mortar slide out of a crouch will become to key to beat Marth.
What I've been thinking of lately [but haven't actually tried yet] is to use jab -> dair as a close range mix-up. A good close range game and effective mix-ups are an important factor in competitive Brawl and many times it can make the difference between winning and losing. In the european meta game such mix-ups with grabs, tilts, jabs and aerials are fairly common [which is probably why Diddy Kong and Falco are so popular over here].
Snake doesn't seem to be the kind of character that can just throw out an aerial after jabbing an opponent at first sight but I can imagine his dair being a very effective shield poke in close range game as well as a move to punish spotdodges and even predictable rolls.
The tactic is risky but unless you are at very high percent the risk / reward ratio doesn't look unbalanced in my eyes. Dair will always beat spotdodge, with a correct read you will also be able to punish the opponent if he rolls towards you.
This is all just hypothetical and I have to try this out tomorrow first to see if it's viable but I'm positive that it can be an effective mix-up if used in smart combination with grab, ftilt, dacus and even fsmash.
I feel like Snake players could perform a lot better if they had better mix-up that go beyond the predictable jab -> ftilt or jab -> grab. Learing and studying close range mix-ups will almost always guarantee improvement and few things are more frightening for your opponent than to be constantly outplayed in close range.
I also believe that good use of crouching dtilt as well as dash attack / mortar slide out of a crouch will become to key to beat Marth.
-Ran
Smash Master
Some frame data:
Jab ends at frame 16, hitbox out on 3. If it hits their shield, you have -12 advantage. From there, jumping takes 10 frames. The first hit of dair occurs at frame 3. So that's 25 full frames for your opponent to react, if they are coming out of shield. If your Jab whiffs, that's essentially half a second. Every single option the character would have could and should beat it. Simply rolling away, or into Snake would beat this.
Just another trick to throw in the pocket. It may have better applications in teams, where people stay in shield a few moments longer than usual.
Jab ends at frame 16, hitbox out on 3. If it hits their shield, you have -12 advantage. From there, jumping takes 10 frames. The first hit of dair occurs at frame 3. So that's 25 full frames for your opponent to react, if they are coming out of shield. If your Jab whiffs, that's essentially half a second. Every single option the character would have could and should beat it. Simply rolling away, or into Snake would beat this.
Just another trick to throw in the pocket. It may have better applications in teams, where people stay in shield a few moments longer than usual.
ZTD | TECHnology
Developing New TECHnology
Yeah basically in between the 3rd and 4th hit (there's like a very specific timing for it) is when you want to FF it and id you do it right you get it AC'ed even while it hits the shield. It's hella good for mindgames and plus even its relatively safe on shield since that last hit pushes the opponent backward.
jab > dair is actually a 2008 M2K trick rofl
interesting mindgame but way too risky IMO
dash attack vs marth is actually overrated because it loses to his nair, dash attack only ***** marth's that spam fair and nothing else. crouch > dtilt can beat nair landing but only if they're approaching with it because of the obvious lack of mobility that snake has while crouching
crouching also makes power shielding much easier vs hitboxes that come top to bottom like marth's fair
interesting mindgame but way too risky IMO
dash attack vs marth is actually overrated because it loses to his nair, dash attack only ***** marth's that spam fair and nothing else. crouch > dtilt can beat nair landing but only if they're approaching with it because of the obvious lack of mobility that snake has while crouching
crouching also makes power shielding much easier vs hitboxes that come top to bottom like marth's fair
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Sometimes I feel like rushing that Marth's Fair/Nair stuff and PS the hits and grab him. I do not care if it's difficult to get down consistantly or even risky, it's oh so satisfying to PS it and just tech chase him to death.
theres an utilt style hitbox right inbetween his legs that goes far enough to hit their shield
noone should try to rely on powershielding, you'll get ****ed over way too often if you come at marth every attack with the intent of power shielding, its not like they're gonna do the same **** every time, and if they are they're spacing it so that you cant punish it
you cant punish tipped sh fair or short hop fast falled fair (tipped) on shield unless its a ps then you can utilt or something (only on the first one mentioned)
tl;dr marths space rly well and aren't predictable, your best bet is to try and bait it so you can see it coming before hand to PS....but its not that easy :/