Alright guys, we've got **** to do

[AfroQT]

i just wish i could Dair through tornado...thats all i want in my life.
To kick someone through a tornado.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

i just wish i could Dair through tornado...thats all i want in my life.
To kick someone through a tornado.

Your a kirby now. Just drop a brick on them.

 

[etecoon]

kirby has an infinite on MK

he can't stop losing

it's infinite

 

[Blacknight99923]

its so funny to see afro type that and then look below at his signature.

you can always uptilt nado though but I dunno if that counts since its snake hitting people with his.....private area's.

I think crouching under nado should be used more. It so sexy when you see them waste nado and just crouch it and then punish them

sadly I've only done it once though

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Crouching is too impractical of a method to consistantly use. The only time it is ever used is if you are on the ground. In that situation, snake is in a neutral state. That is risky stage for MK to use the tornado against you as you can pull out a grenade. Tornado is not all that great of a method of approach. It's best use is for keeping pressue on once you find an opening in the first place.

 

[Limeee]

how come uptilt doesn't go through tornado consistently?
whats the timing/spacing for it?

because i see ally do it consistently, but sometimes tornado goes right through my uptilt

i'm guessing its because of the B mashing priority stuff

 

[etecoon]

hard to say without seeing but the hitbox for utilt is actually pretty small off the ground, you might be doing it too early

for most people I'd even say it's partly impractical because of that range, it's relatively easy for MK to bait seeing as tornado has ****ing wario mobility <_<

 

[Blacknight99923]

Mks don't want to challenge an uptilt though, and if their outside of utilt range for a bait you can still throw a nade at the nado.

 

[etecoon]

pulling a grenade gives MK ample time to run away, it only really helps if you already are holding it and aren't in lag, and if you just pulled it out and are in lag that means you can't do **** about tornado at all lol

 

[Blacknight99923]

yeah pretty much but if he things your going to uptil and you puill a nade before any action it might work but I wouldn't recomend trying to nade him while he is zoning nado

 

[napZzz]

how come uptilt doesn't go through tornado consistently?
whats the timing/spacing for it?

because i see ally do it consistently, but sometimes tornado goes right through my uptilt

i'm guessing its because of the B mashing priority stuff

its only a certain part of the utilt hitbox that breaks through it, because of its stupid range for some reason its able to go through nado and hit mk's body, at least thats what I recall it is. so he's gotta be closer to you for it to happen

I've broken through nados with nair quite a few times actually, if I'm at the top of the screen where your'e in that little bubble thing and mk is chasing after me I'll nair and DI away from him and if they nadothe kicks clash with it for some reason as long as you're DI'ing away and the last hit is the one that kicks through it, the hitbox that breaks it is the one that sort of goes a little farther out and is inbetween his legs or whatever in the middle

I think i've hit mk with the last hit of dair outta nado before. I doubt it, it might work if it kicks him straight in the middle, but thats gotta be one of the most impractical things i've ever heard. lol

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Most good Metaknights aren't stupid enough to put themselves in such a situation. They can just angle the nado above you to where youre forced to shield. Though this can give you a an opening. Grenades only seem to work when they just go at you head on. Which is dumb because we just Up-Tilt or shield drop a grenade if they get too close. Even if the nade doesnt work they'll retreat. But Metaknight has more than enough time to just retreat and we cant do anything about it.

Like Xeylode says its not a solid approach against a Snake that is in a stationary or advantage position. Very risky and Metaknight cant really afford to make mistakes against us.

EDIT: I have killed MKs off the top by using a Nair at the upper corners of the nado when in the air. The range and priority beats it (from that angle and I think only in the first few frames of the actual tornado)

 

[napZzz]

the problem with utilting a nado is you have to be very precise about it as in knowing when he's going to move at you and timing it correctly

the problem is that not every mk is just going to charge at you straight on after taking the time to show you the nado, they should know thats not smart because snake can break it at that point

imo the only other way to deal with this is to just aim your shield up and know what its done for, because you can avoid the shield poke sometimes if you time a roll or spot dodge well if I recall

I was also reading something on the ic's boards about how you can SDI to the middle of the nado and airdodge through below him, and that it only works in the beginning motions of the nado

My SDI is still really ****ty and i'm wondering if its possible for snake to do this, and it would work wonders because of what I said earlier. If mk comes at you with nado and the utilt whiffs or clashes with it, it means he is free to come in at you. BUT if you're prepared to SDI to the middle of nado as soon as he gets you in and pop back down out of it free to get a grab/tilt at the end of it this would work wonders at handling nado close range because this is something that can be done on reaction without a prediction because you'll know if utilt whiffs that its coming and you can buffer how you SDI

I think to SDI to the middle of it its sort of dependent on where it sucks you in or something, like you're supposed to go to the opposite side of his momentum so this might not be perfect if he uses it differently, idk

someone who doesn't suck at SDI'ing should totally check this out and see if snakes fatass can get out of it

 

[Attila_]

I was also reading something on the ic's boards about how you can SDI to the middle of the nado and airdodge through below him, and that it only works in the beginning motions of the nado

My SDI is still really ****ty and i'm wondering if its possible for snake to do this, and it would work wonders because of what I said earlier. If mk comes at you with nado and the utilt whiffs or clashes with it, it means he is free to come in at you. BUT if you're prepared to SDI to the middle of nado as soon as he gets you in and pop back down out of it free to get a grab/tilt at the end of it this would work wonders at handling nado close range because this is something that can be done on reaction without a prediction because you'll know if utilt whiffs that its coming and you can buffer how you SDI

I think to SDI to the middle of it its sort of dependent on where it sucks you in or something, like you're supposed to go to the opposite side of his momentum so this might not be perfect if he uses it differently, idk

that thread started from a conversation between meep and myself. and ive posted that information in the snake boards before i posted it anywhere else. read my posts lol

snake cant really do it. well, ive got out pretty often before the last hit, but can never get out before that. it doesnt really give you a chance to punish, but it ends the juggle much earlier. i do it easily with falco and ics, though.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

He's so fat and falls fast enough I can't see him being able to SDI completely from dead center. Enough to drop a grenade seems like a possibility though. Ally once said that he just used to rotate the Control Stick in a circle and its worked out somehow lol Although I am borderline sucky at SDIing. So someone should test that. I'm testing a few other things today also.

Oh and yeah I do just tilt the shield upward when he's directly on me. Besides if you dont you get hit by the last 2-3 hits anyway lol

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Infern once said that he found great success crouching the nado and then buffering utilt out of crouch to punish. But he used tilt-stick to buffer the utilt, idk if you can do it w/o it since you'll just exit crouch when you tilt your control stick up.

 

[napZzz]

I dont think you can do it otherwise, and its not worth losing SDI to have tha toption

 

[Underload]

How good would you all say your reflexes are?

 

[Yumewomiteru]

My reaction time is only average according to online testing. But I think my reflexes are good as I make spetacular (not) diving saves in volleyball all the time.

@ nappy: yeah i dont think i will switch my controls just for that either. But maybe we can utilize upsmash out of crouching as we could potentially evade the nado sincve we are slightly lower when we are in usmash animation.

 

[etecoon]

if you're referring to the 215ms that one site lists as average, the data is probably skewed seeing as people with unusual reflexes are more likely to revisit the site and try to break high scores and whatnot

 

[Underload]

Yeah, I seem to have better reactions irl than in Smash. I've dodged ******* skaters before, that don't bother to look when they're turning a corner. I was running, too. I felt so awesome afterward.

In Brawl? I think I've powershielded tornado a few times.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Soooo anyone want to test my usmash out of crouching idea? I would do it but parents are watching TV.

 

[Darkshadow7827]

My reaction time is pretty horrid. I don't remember what my average is on that site, but it's def below average haha. I don't know why though. I've played dodgeball and **** and I have no problem. I gotta work on it. It's slow enough that I can't think fast enough to SDI a single (not multihit) attack, even if I know I'm gonna get punished.

Edit: Did anyone ever find out how to consistently pull nades inside MKs nado?

 

[Attila_]

ALL my sdi is predicted. if i think im gonna get hit, i spam c and joysticks. makes a serious difference to my ability to survive, remembering that most attacks in the game are faster than human reaction time. if you're in a position to get hit, spam those sticks.

if you seem me do a random usmash in one of my matches, this is why lol.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

I dont really SDI for survival DI. I do it to get out of combos though, like kirby's fthrow to uair if you sdi up the uair you can jump out w/o taking additional damage.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I really have no idea on my reaction time. It all depens upon my state of mind and the particular situation I am dealing with. If I foresee something coming, I can react to it. If I am totally caught off guard, I react more slowly. In the case of the tornado, my best solution is learn to DI out of it, and to shield it when you are grounded. If you have a full shield, then MK cannot possibly shield poke you at all and it is a matter of waiting it out and then punishing out of shield. Or getting the heck away to a better position. I am not sure if wifi is anything to gauge by, but I have managed to DI out of the tornado as Snake. It is possible. Although, to be honest, I am not really sure what I am doing to get out. I pretty much button mash airdodge, up on the control stick, and mash the c-stick in some direction or jump

50% of the time it works depending upon the character I am using. With Snake, it does work though.

 

[napZzz]

How good would you all say your reflexes are?

my reflexes are great unless I have a lack of sleep, which happens far too often due to my amazing sleep schedule compared to when tourneys begin/end

do you guys even know how to properly SDI? mashing the sticks sort of works but its much more effective if you're mashing it the right way

 

[Attila_]

as a general rule, up is a good thing. it gets you out of most situations, and helps you di better (espc since snake survives upwards). naturally there are exceptions, but its way better than nothing. like i said, watch my matches, and youll see.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I need a "SDI for Dummies" guide or something because I can only do it with certain moves.

 

[Toneh]

holding down during kill moves and dying early is what we in call in orlando: "gallax DI"

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I used to do that so much...lol like seriously I don't know how I placed so well when my DI was HORRIBLE lol fortunately its legit now.

 

[Infern Angelis]

Infern once said that he found great success crouching the nado and then buffering utilt out of crouch to punish. But he used tilt-stick to buffer the utilt, idk if you can do it w/o it since you'll just exit crouch when you tilt your control stick up.

Name search!

 

[Toneh]

good DI is an acquired taste

Spoiler

infern infern infern infern

 

[Infern Angelis]

im here here here here

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Using Snake has given me a deleterious habit of sometimes trying to momentum cancel upwards/diagonal kill moves with air dodge. But surprisingly I still live at high damage. What gets me the most are those uairs from top of the screen, seems I lack the prediction/reaction to air dodge them.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Lol I love how Infern just automatically appears when you type his name.

 

[Infern Angelis]

Peek a boo, I see you Technical Chase!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Peek a boo, I see you Technical Chase!

Quit stalking people Angelis.

I doubt he would name search that.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

LOL Infern. When are you going to visit Michigan? We <3 Ohio.

 

[Underload]

Forward air needs to be used at times.