Alright guys, we've got **** to do

[*_Echo_*]

Some of this I knew, but quite a few things I did not; good **** Rich. Who needs a Falco matchup discussion when we've got you

I wanna see you beat Larry now

agreed :D
vidsvidsvidsvidsvids >.>

 

[Dnyce]

We are seriously the biggest group of noobs for not utilizing this sooner

^This

Usmash...OoS...Luigi's nair? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Ok, Fino's right. Every hard MU just flew out the window.

When have I posted something completely wrong?

 

[*_Echo_*]

^This


When have I posted something completely wrong?

lmao the falco MU

 

[-Vocal-]

The only problem I'm gonna have now is making sure Usmash is fresh enough to kill with

MOAR GRAHBZ!

 

[Jane]

Easiest way to boost pivot grab is to simply pivot grab with attack + shield. (A + R for most people) you have to work on the timing a bit to make sure its always a bpg and not just a pivot grab, but its really easy. Most of the time, when you try without even thinking about it, youll do a bpg rather than a pivot grab.

 

[*_Echo_*]

The only problem I'm gonna have now is making sure Usmash is fresh enough to kill with

MOAR GRAHBZ!

pikmin throw, purp upsmash will still be amazing , Dsmash, red/purp fair/bair, yea i think we good

 

[RichBrown]

Gah I can't find that vid for the life of me

Basically it's when you run off the stage, and the moment you're offstage you upB and DI back towards the stage, causing you to land on the stage right away. It makes it look like you're gonna edge guard but you end up just landing back on the stage

 

[*_Echo_*]

Gah I can't find that vid for the life of me

Basically it's when you run off the stage, and the moment you're offstage you upB and DI back towards the stage, causing you to land on the stage right away. It makes it look like you're gonna edge guard but you end up just landing back on the stage

ooo ok i think i gotcha, i can see it in my head. so its similar to the insta recovery just without hanging on to the ledge?

 

[RichBrown]

Precisely.

Yeah, I think that with these new tactics I've picked up from Brood I can beat Larry now. I already practice with him at least once a week so that will make things a little easier XDDD

 

[Noa.]

If you beat Larry I would be so happy since then Fino can shut up.

 

[-Vocal-]

If you can beat Larry I'd be happy because then we're one step closer to having few to no bad matchups :D

OLIMAR FOR THE NEW METAKNIGHT!

 

[*_Echo_*]

an olimar with no bad matchups.. wow O_o

and to think i was about to secod him because he had bad MUs >.>

 

[Johnny Citrus]

an olimar with no bad matchups.. wow O_o

and to think i was about to secod him because he had bad MUs >.>

that will never happen lol...you guys are overhyping this way too much. this is going to boost olimars tier rank a lot, but he's not suddenly god like just because of brood. He's just a really good player who managed to learn M2K's playstyle, just like adhd did with diddy.

 

[-Vocal-]

that will never happen lol...you guys are overhyping this way too much. this is going to boost olimars tier rank a lot, but he's not suddenly god like just because of brood. He's just a really good player who managed to learn M2K's playstyle, just like adhd did with diddy.

Never said that cuz of Brood, said it because of Usmash OoS btw. It was kind of an exaggerative way to say "Life just got a lot sweeter."

 

[*_Echo_*]

^ wat vocal said Upsmash OoS gonna be kick *** to use saturday XD

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Precisely.

Yeah, I think that with these new tactics I've picked up from Brood I can beat Larry now. I already practice with him at least once a week so that will make things a little easier XDDD

It's your fault that Brood lost to Larry cuz you gave him so much experience in that matchup.

 

[-Vocal-]

It's your fault that Brood lost to Larry cuz you gave him so much experience in that matchup.

Actually...

Nvm. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Don't want to get others in a sticky situation. If they choose to say something then that's their business

Just know that there were other factors

 

[Pyronic_Star]

I've been talking for months about stutterstep fsmash. That extra half inch it gives you is amazing.

Fino told me that we can also usmash OoS luigi's nair. I tried it against a cpu luigi, and like Fino said it would pikmin rocket every time.

We are seriously the biggest group of noobs for not utilizing this sooner hahaha.

For me it's not a matter of learning when to usmashoos or shieldgrab. There are some moves that are just better to shieldgrab, or are not usmashoos-able (my vocabulary *****).

Also, a lot of the time people will try to shieldgrab you if they block your usmash, but it will usually hit them juuust outside of range, and if you grab immediately after dsmashing you'll get them.

I'm also gonna make a long post on how I handle Falco's sideB in a bit, we can **** the ***** out of that move...

you mean yall be noobs

 

[-Vocal-]

you mean yall be noobs

You should have purple Usmashed us all until we learned

 

[Dnyce]

Actually...

Nvm. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut. Don't want to get others in a sticky situation. If they choose to say something then that's their business

Just know that there were other factors

Mmm... yesss....



Yesss.....






=3 some of us know what really happened

 

[-Vocal-]

Mmm... yesss....



Yesss.....






=3 some of us know what really happened

XD

Fino, that picture summarizes it perfectly

 

[Dnyce]

XD

Fino, that picture summarizes it perfectly

I hate being wrong.

 

[-Vocal-]

I hate being wrong.

I wouldn't speak so fast; someone is going to be trying very hard to make a liar out of you

*cough*RICH*cough*

 

[*_Echo_*]

lmao cant wait for that

 

[Insetick]

Ask the players that lost to Brood to see how they felt while playing. It may help :/

Ask those that have experience in the MU what makes him stand out.


And one final thought: the Japanese players have an advantage in that they have their own metagame. When they join US tourneys, our players' MU experience is less helpful. Of course, this can go either way.
I feel that smashboards and the tourney scene encourages US players to use the same playstyles (this is why most tourney-goers use top-tier characters). In a few months, our best Olimars will be buffering as much as Brood, and the best MKs will find ways around it.
these are just theories, though. If I had to make a suggestion off of this, it would be to avoid copying Brood move-for-move. Learn some of his tricks then get a c***load of experience.

Just friendly advise, don't bash me

 

[-Vocal-]

Ask the players that lost to Brood to see how they felt while playing. It may help :/

Ask those that have experience in the MU what makes him stand out.


And one final thought: the Japanese players have an advantage in that they have their own metagame. When they join US tourneys, our players' MU experience is less helpful. Of course, this can go either way.
I feel that smashboards and the tourney scene encourages US players to use the same playstyles (this is why most tourney-goers use top-tier characters). In a few months, our best Olimars will be buffering as much as Brood, and the best MKs will find ways around it.
these are just theories, though. If I had to make a suggestion off of this, it would be to avoid copying Brood move-for-move. Learn some of his tricks then get a c***load of experience.

Just friendly advise, don't bash me

But of course - we aren't going to become little Brood clones, we're just going to steal his fancy tricksies and implement them into our playstyles

 

[Insetick]

But of course - we aren't going to become little Brood clones, we're just going to steal his fancy tricksies and implement them into our playstyles

That's good, b/c Olimar seems to work well with many different playstyles.


I read until page 11, and it sounds like your tactical discussion needs more MU tips. "Buffer more" and "JC U-Smash OOS" are good, (btw, it IS funny that you guys haven't been abusing Oli's kickass usmash oos) but small techniques like those aren't going to change MU ratios.

From what I saw in Brood v m2k, Brood always had a purple ready when recovering. He DI'd up like crazy out of MK's nado (I think he could've hit mk out of the nado with dair). He's freaky good at getting back on stage, so analyze his recovery. Sometimes he ended up with 3 purples at a time, which is a pikmin management thing. When mk uses nado, he's often at a safe distance to retreat a bit and shield. He did this a lot more in doubles, but he'd upB through nado a lot.

I haven't seen much of his MU v. Ally, but I saw that he was a beast at getting through the nades.

 

[RichBrown]

But of course - we aren't going to become little Brood clones, we're just going to steal his fancy tricksies and implement them into our playstyles

^this^ hahaha

 

[Dnyce]

but small techniques like those aren't going to change MU ratios.

Go back to the sheik boards.... now. lmao

The Usmash thing is no small matter or little trick... it's a revolution. It's like DDD learning he can CG people with dthrow. It's going to become absolutely essential and core to the metagame.

 

[-Vocal-]

That's good, b/c Olimar seems to work well with many different playstyles.


I read until page 11, and it sounds like your tactical discussion needs more MU tips. "Buffer more" and "JC U-Smash OOS" are good, (btw, it IS funny that you guys haven't been abusing Oli's kickass usmash oos) but small techniques like those aren't going to change MU ratios.

From what I saw in Brood v m2k, Brood always had a purple ready when recovering. He DI'd up like crazy out of MK's nado (I think he could've hit mk out of the nado with dair). He's freaky good at getting back on stage, so analyze his recovery. Sometimes he ended up with 3 purples at a time, which is a pikmin management thing. When mk uses nado, he's often at a safe distance to retreat a bit and shield. He did this a lot more in doubles, but he'd upB through nado a lot.

I haven't seen much of his MU v. Ally, but I saw that he was a beast at getting through the nades.

Most of those things are about pikmin management, which is something we've been talking about a lot as well; I thought there were posts about it in this thread, but nonetheless it's been a topic in the Xat.

As for Nado, he did several things, like whistling the last hit for a Usmash punish (something we've known for a while). That said, I will observe his Nado habits and see if there's anything else there. As for being far away, that goes more into playstyle and strategies, which we've also been analyzing.

And yea, he was really good at getting around grenades

Also, what Fino said: Usmash OoS is going to be essential in nearly every matchup we have, and exploring it is a top priority now.

As far as matchups, we have matchup discussions for those types of things. This thread is dedicated to making our Olimars play better, not necessarily better against a specific character (though those thoughts might get posted here as well if we don't currently have a relevant MU thread). Speaking of which, ICs discussion died a while ago, we need to get another one going.

^this^ hahaha

Also, what do the initials in your signature stand for? I'm guessing I already know SSB but the other one loses me

 

[Tin Man]

When all the threads one person follows add up, having to read every post in threads that expand by 3 pages every time I go to work becomes such a chore >_>

Yup, goes right through them.

Goes through reflector, as in he can't reflect yellows (Blasphemy :o)?

@weruop- i must agree :/

also JC upsmash OOS is too good >.>

i use L for jump for this >.> (i have x as shield)

also why did the commentators think that each hit of upair refreshes our moves?? They knew absoultly nothing >.> they needed logic and fino on that stream! (or L)

Yeah, they seriously need people to commmentate on things that they know instead of people being like "spinny thing to usmash" >_>

Fino told me that we can also usmash OoS luigi's nair. I tried it against a cpu luigi, and like Fino said it would pikmin rocket every time.

So when the luigi hits the shield, and before he touches the ground, JC Usmash OoS at that moment?

[collapse=Rich Brown's Falco Phantasm Post]

Ok I'm on a computer now

=^.^=Falco's sideB=^.^=

Just some stuff off the top of my head

-Our utilt, dtilt, and nair beat the move most of the time. I haven't tested ftilt, but I'd imagine that works too.

-All our smashes will beat it sometimes, the timing and spacing are hard.


It's a quick move, and it's hard to react to. The key though is not to try to time the move. The moment you see the sideB coming, just do one of the tilts. They like to sideB out of laser, and also when they are seemingly in a bad position.

Now when it comes to Falco being offstage, I think he have a lot of options. A trick I like to use is I'll stand sorta close to the ledge to make it look like I'm gonna try to edge hog, but I'll face AWAY from the ledge and shield. Then, when Falco sideBs to the stage, I'm already in a position to shieldgrab him.

This one I haven't really been able to put to work, but I'd imagine this would work amazingly. Since our dtilt beats his sideB as well as reaches over the ledge slightly, it'd probably be a good idea to wait at the very ledge to make it look like you're going to edge guard, then just dtilt the illusion. This also puts Falco a little above you so you can fair him, or even spike him if possible.

If he decides to recover really high to avoid all of this, just upB.

If he decides to just start recovering to the ledge, then you can edgehog him.

Super Rich Brown special: When they are coming back, do that thing where you run off the stage and tether, except you immediately land back on the stage, it practically ensures that he's gonna recover to the stage. (I'm NOT referring to instant return. I think there's a video of this somewhere from like 2008, I'll try to find it in case any of you are confused).

Messing up Falco's sideB requires some very quick reactions/smart decisions/prediction, so just work on it. Avoid just sitting there and waiting for the sideB too because the falco will catch on and stop doing it as much, plus he has plenty of other options anyways. Maintain your mobility and react quickly to the move.

OH also, if you utilt sideB, it will interrupt your utilt, and Falco will land right next to you, allowing for a free move of your choice.

Other Falco stuff since I'm here:

-We can probably usmash OoS between Falco's 2nd and 1st jab (I'm referring to when he cancels it).

-There's NO REASON to fight him when you're at chaingrab percent. Just hop around on platforms, dair, maybe try to pivot grab, or dsmash him through the platform (holy **** that's so ****) or even usmash OoS. You can be a little more loose when you're not at CG percents, but still avoid getting grabbed by Falco because it can lead to some serious damage.

-Just keep Falco at Fsmash range at all times. Don't close the gap for any reason, even if he seems open.

I'm also digging Brood's mixup where he starts to jump at you, then DIs back ever so slightly and grabs. That's really good.

Yeah that's all for now.

[/collapse]

Would you suggest taking lasers at low percent until you hit about 15-20and then fight him? When I get CG'd, I can't seem to escape it. Mashing Y buffers a jump (now I know how to properly explain it xD), and when I get spiked after the 3-4th Dthrow, I lose my jump, and if I try to upB, even with a full 6 pikmin, I never reach the edge, i keep going down because i'm in hitstun so I don't get the little hop that comes with the upB (I mash upB like hell after getting spiked and still no luck =/)

that will never happen lol...you guys are overhyping this way too much. this is going to boost olimars tier rank a lot, but he's not suddenly god like just because of brood. He's just a really good player who managed to learn M2K's playstyle, just like adhd did with diddy.

Anti did 2-0 Brood. Too bad he got eliminated by both M2K then Ally, that really sucks. Upsets shake an entire tourney.

Also, what do the initials in your signature stand for? I'm guessing I already know SSB but the other one loses me

Super Smash Brothers South California...

...******

 

[-Vocal-]

But what about the V?

And your last word was filtered with no context to give a clue lol

 

[Tin Man]

I said Va****, get it now? (can't say the whole thing, Hilt will infract me -_-)

 

[-Vocal-]

I said Va****, get it now? (can't say the whole thing, Hilt will infract me -_-)

I get it

And he can't infract you without infracting Rich's signature too

 

[-Vocal-]

I know that buffering isn't going to be as crazy good as some of the other things we're working on (<3 Usmashoos) but it is still important for us to learn to abuse it to the best of Olimar's ability. As such, I figured I'd share this very detailed thread that explains the buffer system. I'm sure we can all learn something from it - for instance, I learned that in order for a buffered dash to be registered, the control stick must be returned to neutral before the dash would begin, as in Buffer Dash>Let Go of Stick># Frames Later Character Will Dash. Little things like that can help us get this down pat and use the buffer system to the fullest extent.

Sorry to double post but I wanted to get this in here before I went to bed *yawn*

 

[Tin Man]

Yeah I knew stuff like then when I did research on Pikachu's chain grabs. To properly buffer the grab u have to press and release the grab button within the 10 frame window. Releasing it after the 10 frame window will make you shield.

Buffering just pretty much helps get things done faster but not necessarily revolutionary in any matchups. Brood did quite a bit of grounded side B to buffered Fsmash to pikmin pluck to down smash etc. He just buffers stuff like that to get moves out faster, but i mean learning something like when to use Dtilt & Ftilt and UsmashOoS is much more important.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

It doesn't necessarily do things faster, it just does things the fastest you possibly can. Which yeah, we don't usually do.

 

[*_Echo_*]

@tin man- when falco spikes u, wait a fraction of a second(when ur about even with the stage) and press upB, u cant spam it or it wont work, u can also whistle the spike if u time it. I do this all the time but mostly just upB cancel it because u can possibly gimp him

also if lucario trys to jab cancel something we can easily upsmash OOS anything he can do even if he trys just doing the third hit of jab

 

[-Vocal-]

@tin man- when falco spikes u, waita fraction of a second and press upB, u cant spam it or it wont work, u ca also whistle the spike if u time it. I do this all the time but mostly just upB cancel it because u can possibly gimp him

I remember mentioning whistling it and someone pointed out that if we could whistle it then we'd also be able to air dodge it, so it seems the whistle is only an option if Falco messes up the timing

 

[RichBrown]

Ah, good information. Someone had sorta explained this to me a while back but I never fully understood it. Thanks!

I just went back and watched the set between me and larry from a month ago... My perspective on this MU (and, to an extent, this game) has changed drastically simply due to UsmashOoS, being able to fair the jab, some mixups I stole from Brood (hehehe), and other tricks I've been working on pre-Apex. There were soooo many opportunities I wasn't capitalizing on, and situations which I thought were bad are now actually ok situations. Maaaan I'm pumped for Raleigh.

Our dtilt beats Falco's upB btw.