All Characters Match-up Chart (9/07 update)

[N64]

Yeah, a fair amount of pika stuff has changed since i first argued in this, heh.

Sheik is worse for pika than marth. Move her to 1, marth to 2.

Jiggs is eeeven with pika at decent levels of play, probably change that to a 5. While she can't WoP pika, not much prevents her from just retreating bair-ing you to death. Pika's approach options are lackluster at best. Usmash kills retardedly fast, yes, but pika doesn't have a whole lot to lead into it (nair can with bad DI, dthrow can with really bad DI, but nothing inescapable). I end up killing jiggs with nair more often than usmash, and nair doesn't kill until like 110%ish on most stages. And jiggs still has a few tricks that work, namely utilt -> rest.

 

[ZoSo]

And jiggs still has a few tricks that work, namely utilt -> rest.

NO N64 PIKACHU IS A SMALL TARGET (kind of) AND IS THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE TO REST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING?

 

[N64]

NO N64 PIKACHU IS A SMALL TARGET (kind of) AND IS THEREFORE IMPOSSIBLE TO REST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING?

mah bad.
tenchars

 

[1048576]

Pika can compete with Jiggs in the air. Pika makes Jiggs cry on the ground.

 

[TGM]

mah bad.
tenchars

hes dumb. if you drill(d-air) to rest, you will get pikachu.

 

[Bullet Bill]

I think the Doc Falcon mathcup should be 4 against. doc can chaingrab Falcon and combo him pretty well. Captain Falcon is also really vunerable to the money shot.

 

[Anther]

Jiggly has one of the best edgeguard games vs Pikachu in my opinion. I still think Jiggly vs Pika is a 6 in favor of Pika, since I think a patient style will still prevail over Jigglypuff... and its just a lil bit easier for Jiggly to make a life threatening mistake than Pikachu.

 

[ZoSo]

hes dumb. if you drill(d-air) to rest, you will get pikachu.

N64 and I are soul mates. Just thought I should make that clear.

 

[1048576]

Jiggs edgeguarding is great. It won't work on a good Pika. His recovery is just too good. Dair to rest doesn't work due to DI/lag issues.

 

[ferroqual]

and all this leads back to if the matchup should be this much in pikachu's favor
to summarize for those who can't read:
neither characters quick kill is that easy to pull off, but pikas is easier here.
a lot of jiggs tricks (WoP, etc) don't work that well against pika
and jigg dies FAST to pikas upsmash. ridiculously fast.
personally, I agree with the listing--especially after watching some friends at equal skill in pika/jiggs matches.
oh, and on a side note, this is an incredible chart that could be made better if the color corrections previously mentioned were applied. kudos for compiling it.

 

[Anther]

Dunno.. I consider myself at least decent with Pika... even though I play a bit more retardedly than most pika mains, but it's not 8 lopsided XD.

Either 5 or 6, Jiggly's spacing game and floatyness factor into a lot of Usmashes not connecting, as they're only comboed into at low percents.

I take my Tourney pika seriously, and lost in the finals to a jiggs I put in the losers bracket, and I know I wasn't messing around after losing the first finals set x_X.

Most of pika's kills end up being from Nairs as opposed to upsmashes the better the jiggs get.

 

[Stos]

Wow Link can't do ****.

 

[Jihnsius]

I think Peach vs Pichu's current matchup rating isn't anywhere near right.

 

[Micheloxx]

to the people that says that in this match up arent involved the skills of the player, the answer is that, this is CHARACTERS matchups, ok? C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R-S MATCH UPS

 

[Falco&Victory]

to the people that says that in this match up arent involved the skills of the player, the answer is that, this is CHARACTERS matchups, ok? C-H-A-R-A-C-T-E-R-S MATCH UPS

quote for truffles.

I mean truth....


Yeah, all of Pichus should be a '0'

 

[Dark.Pch]

To be, this chart only shows how hard one character has to work against another to get the win off. Thats it. cause look at Azen, play with ever character at pro level and *****/owns. Same with the tier List. Thats all it means to me. And some characters that say that own Peach like Y.link from what I see in this chart, I dont have much problem with him, you stay close to him and you win. And I think the topic of this thread will never end cause people have thier own opinions on the match up cause they could be good at it or bad at it. So its a never ending battle in here. learn your character, your skills, and the match up, this chart and the tier list is just a lil guide that shows you what can happen if your not on point in the fight and dont know what your doing

 

[otg]

Agreed with Dark.Pch, any character can beat any character, just depends on how hard they have to work to get the win.

 

[Nigachu]

To be, this chart only shows how hard one character has to work against another to get the win off. Thats it. cause look at Azen, play with ever character at pro level and *****/owns. Same with the tier List. Thats all it means to me. And some characters that say that own Peach like Y.link from what I see in this chart, I dont have much problem with him, you stay close to him and you win. And I think the topic of this thread will never end cause people have thier own opinions on the match up cause they could be good at it or bad at it. So its a never ending battle in here. learn your character, your skills, and the match up, this chart and the tier list is just a lil guide that shows you what can happen if your not on point in the fight and dont know what your doing

Well said, I don't get why some people don't understand that.
Wow I would have never guessed Pika countered Jiggs so well, with her being so floaty.

 

[Cort]

This topic should be closed for similar reasons any topic gets closed.

 

[moozles]

Haha think about this chart like types in Pokemon. Shiek is super effective against Bowser and Pichu is not very effective against Ice Climbers. Just because they're not very effective, doesn't mean they will lose. A Houndoom can easily defeat a Blastoise with proper strategy and moves, like Sunny Day and Solarbeam combo, and the same theory can be put for SSBM.

 

[Pat/Pro]

Agreed with Dark.Pch, any character can beat any character, just depends on how hard they have to work to get the win.

Pichu cant be ICs unless the ICs are ********

 

[Dark Sonic]

I think guys don't understand what this is. This is just a character matchup chart. That means that this chart is assuming that both players are exactly even in skill. Yes if you are more skilled than your opponent you can beat them, but if you are not more skilled than them then this chart will most likely hold true. The smaller the gap in skill between the players is the more accurately this chart will predict the outcome. That means that both players have the same familiarity with the matchup and that both of them are at the same general skill level, not one of them knowing the matchup beter, not one of them being a better player. That's why this chart changes so much. It's base is that both players are equal in every way, but that is very hard to find between two players that play those specific characters. How often do you find a person that plays bowser and is considered as skilled as another player that plays a higher tier character winning. Generally if the lower teir player(matchup wise) wins it is because they are actually more skilled than their opponent.

 

[squaminator]

we understand each other, we just think our point is more important. Or that we bring something new to the table. Sonic, fourteen people have said that before you in this topic (probably about 50 actually), and moozles, 90 people said that before in this topic. Whats been said is said. nobody post after this one unless to bump and hopefully get a sticky, or to argue something that you are SURE (as in you looked through all 1302 posts to make sure), that it hasn't been said yet.

cort was right.

 

[KevinM]

Just saying

Marth is a lot harder of a match up for bowser then the spacies..

 

[Silent Wolf]

Fox vs Luigi 6/4?
Fox completely destroys Luigi. It's more of a 7.5/2.5
Most Foxes just don't know how to fight Luigi, but the one(s) that do, destroy him.

Fox also has a bigger advantage than posted on that chart vs Marth, Doc, Mewtwo, Samus, and maybe a few others I missed.

EDIT: Roy and Ganon, Fox does better than listed.
I'm just going to stop pointing out flaws on that chart.

 

[Binx]

I think we need to get all the best players of every character in the country, lock them in a room and have them round robbin eachother best 2 of three each with that character and just post the results, that should be closer to accurate than just making assumptions, that or you can get 2 people who are of similar skill and both play practically all characters and have them just play a ton of times.

Lol I dont know if we will ever really know exactly how much advanatage characters have vs other characters.

 

[ICEDTEA1325]

thats a good chart.. thanks

 

[rayecho]

this was a fun little chart to examine for future tournament match ups.

 

[pkmvodka]

Wow I really love how DK's worst matchup according to that chart is sheik. Keep thinking that guys, it makes my job easier.

 

[Cort]

This topic breeds stupid discussion. I like how whenever phanna's topics are poked and criticized he just.. abandons them.

 

[Tom]

This topic breeds stupid discussion. I like how whenever phanna's topics are poked and criticized he just.. abandons them.

But also, Cort... this topic has reached over 1,000 posts. It must be hard for phanna to keep up with everything anyone says in this, especially if he is satisfied with the chart.

 

[skrach8]

so does sheik still **** marth.

 

[All_Characters]

I think we should just stick with the fact that the charts facts are close enough. It is clear that Phanna will not be changing anything on the chart despite your complaints, and really, can you blame him/her?

This is just a reference chart people. If a match-up is an 8 instead of a 7, its not going to completely screw up your analysis of who you're going to counter pick.

 

[Cort]

But also, Cort... this topic has reached over 1,000 posts. It must be hard for phanna to keep up with everything anyone says in this, especially if he is satisfied with the chart.

No johns.

and some more no johns @ above.

 

[jaywinner]

Wow I really love how DK's worst matchup according to that chart is sheik. Keep thinking that guys, it makes my job easier.

Really? Seems to me like sheik would be a pretty hard matchup for DK. What do yo u think DK's worst matchup should be?

 

[pkmvodka]

Really? Seems to me like sheik would be a pretty hard matchup for DK. What do yo u think DK's worst matchup should be?

Peach is much harder. Falco that spams (every) are also annoying. DK's huge frame makes him vulnerable against lasers, plus, turns him around, where DK has no good approach on a falco.

 

[Cort]

I'm pretty certain DK vs Peach is very even, or only a slight advantage for Peach.

I go fairly even with bum and only win the majority of the time cause something gay happens like he jumps into my dsmash or I gimp him at a low% edge hog. Otherwise, bum usually beats me if none of these gay things happen.

Bairs are just too much. DK has many options of edge gaurding a Peach that isn't floating too high up, has a 100% kill grab combo at any killable %, and he's -nearly- immune to turnip edge gaurds.

PC usually beats my Peach with his DK also cause of the reasons I've stated.

But, I'm not extremely patient and I probably don't turnip approach as much as I should be against DK..

It's an interesting matchup.

 

[pkmvodka]

I'm pretty certain DK vs Peach is very even, or only a slight advantage for Peach.

I go fairly even with bum and only win the majority of the time cause something gay happens like he jumps into my dsmash or I gimp him at a low% edge hog. Otherwise, bum usually beats me if none of these gay things happen.

Bairs are just too much. DK has many options of edge gaurding a Peach that isn't floating too high up, has a 100% kill grab combo at any killable %, and he's -nearly- immune to turnip edge gaurds.

PC usually beats my Peach with his DK also cause of the reasons I've stated.

But, I'm not extremely patient and I probably don't turnip approach as much as I should be against DK..

It's an interesting matchup.

On stages with platform, peach eats through DK's shield way too easily. I would also say that grabbing dk with peach is easier than grabbing peach with dk. So once she does that, she can toss dk on a platform, where he sucks.

I still think it's an harder matchup than sheik. DK can actually grab sheik through means of CC grab at decent high %, and 1 grab hurts a lot more than against peach.

I think you might be right when you say you don't turnip approach enough, try it.

 

[Winston]

I think we should just stick with the fact that the charts facts are close enough. It is clear that Phanna will not be changing anything on the chart despite your complaints, and really, can you blame him/her?

This is just a reference chart people. If a match-up is an 8 instead of a 7, its not going to completely screw up your analysis of who you're going to counter pick.

The thing is, some of the matchups listed really aren't accurate at all, such as the infamous pika vs jiggs 5:1 value (pikachu really doesn't **** jiggs that much.) This happens especially in more obscure mid/low tier matchups, where only the mains of those characters really know what's going on.

Noobs like to repeat info from this chart as fact, even if they don't have experience in the matchup.... =\

 

[choknater]

my (opinionated and ever-so-slightly biased) fixes to the IC part

ic vs sheik - 5-5
ic vs peach - 3-7
ic vs cfalc - 5-5
ic vs samus - 4-6
ic vs puff - 5-5
ic vs ylink - 7-3
ic vs yoshi - HELL no its not 9-1. id say 6-4 if the yoshi is very great. (well, good yoshis are hard to come by. i guess 9-1 is fine for the general consensus.)
ic vs gw - 5-5
ic vs bowser - 7-3

- outdated chart is outdated.
- this chart assumes way too much about high tier vs low tier matchups

hm, saying ic vs falco is 6-4 might be a stretch. if anything 5.5-4.5. but it's not even, i tell you that. ic's advantage is small, but existent.

i think another one of these should be made but not just by phanna. a collaboration should be done instead, open to more adjustments by more players who are knowledgable.