All Characters Match-up Chart (9/07 update)

[Dark Sonic]

Two words. Needle Spam

Used correctly it can effectively stop Marth's aerial approach, but still put a lot of pressure on him to make a move. It can be just as anoying as a laser spamming Falco in that respect. Needles may not make a strong approach, but Shiek doesn't really need to do that in this match anyway.

Her d-thow is a lose lose situation for Marth. D-behind her and get Uair'd. DI foward and get Fair'd. The Fair is considered the lesser of two evils, but it's still enough to get Marth off the stage so that Shiek can edgeguard with needles and ledgehopped bairs, falling nairs, ect.

It's true that Marth can do some nice things to Shiek, provided you can hit her with a good combo starting move or get a grab on her. Most of the time your just getting a hit here and there trying to rack damage and knock her off the stage.

All in all I think it's a 6.5 in Shiek's favor.

 

[REDRAGON]

Two words. Needle Spam

Used correctly it can effectively stop Marth's aerial approach, but still put a lot of pressure on him to make a move. It can be just as anoying as a laser spamming Falco in that respect. Needles may not make a strong approach, but Shiek doesn't really need to do that in this match anyway.

Her d-thow is a lose lose situation for Marth. D-behind her and get Uair'd. DI foward and get Fair'd. The Fair is considered the lesser of two evils, but it's still enough to get Marth off the stage so that Shiek can edgeguard with needles and ledgehopped bairs, falling nairs, ect.

It's true that Marth can do some nice things to Shiek, provided you can hit her with a good combo starting move or get a grab on her. Most of the time your just getting a hit here and there trying to rack damage and knock her off the stage.

All in all I think it's a 6.5 in Shiek's favor.

All that stuff is mostly true and maybe a 6.5 is about right, i still say closer to 6 but still good points Sonic Wave!

 

[teeman92]

Every tier list and character counter assumes that both players are evenly skilled. Have you ever seen two players who were dead even in terms of skill? It's a rarity.

These are just meant to reflect the nature of the matchups. If you want, think of it like this: the worse your matchup, the better you have to be than your opponent to win it.

LOL nice sig

 

[Pat/Pro]

I tend to agree with red dragon. It is definitely a 6-4. My two mains are fox and shiek and even though Marth counters fox I will only switch to shiek if final d or battlefield is counterpicked on me. Ive beaten top level marths in mlg tournaments with fox and only notice the matchup to be slightly easier with shiek. I dont think any top level player will tell you that it is a 7-3 matchup between shiek and marth.

edit:

About the needle spamming, explain to me how that is going to help you on a level like yoshis story.

 

[BigRick]

I tend to agree with red dragon. It is definitely a 6-4. My two mains are fox and shiek and even though Marth counters fox I will only switch to shiek if final d or battlefield is counterpicked on me. Ive beaten top level marths in mlg tournaments with fox and only notice the matchup to be slightly easier with shiek. I dont think any top level player will tell you that it is a 7-3 matchup between shiek and marth.

edit:

About the needle spamming, explain to me how that is going to help you on a level like yoshis story.

I agree, Marth/Fox should be 5-5 and Sheik/Marth 6-4...

For the Yoshi story thing, you can needle cancel off platforms:
SH needle land on platform --> dash off platform, fastfall aerial

 

[REDRAGON]

WOW people on my side.....thats nice
Yeah Sheik/Marth 6-4
Marth/Fox should be 5/5 with Marth having a SLIGHT advantage, but no enough to be 6/4



Redragon

 

[Professor Pro]

Marth/Fox should be 5/5 with Marth having a SLIGHT advantage, but no enough to be 6/4



Redragon

I agree with you. even though marth can chaingrab fox and he has a big hitbox range fox has got the amazing SHINE and can shine him off quite easy due to his knockback from it lol. its not enough to be 6-4 but its 5-5 in my opinion.
Plus this chart isnt 100% true as i dont think the peach and y.link is 7-3. even though y.link is peach counter most of the times when im watching these type of matches it seems like the peaches always seem to do pretty good agaisnt y.links and it always seem to be a fair game. i also feel the same while i play my friend who is very good with y.link.i would say 6-4 instead for y.link and peach.

 

[SCOTU]

Fox's shine doesn't particularly destroy marth (although i'm working on making it), all fox really has is the utrhow>uair. I'd go 6-4 in favor of marth, it's not just about the chainthrow, it's about the uthrow>*anything* with marth. He can practically uthrow>knee you. Getting grabbed by marth typically results in the loss of about 1/2 stock if not more.

 

[REDRAGON]

Fox's shine doesn't particularly destroy marth (although i'm working on making it), all fox really has is the utrhow>uair. I'd go 6-4 in favor of marth, it's not just about the chainthrow, it's about the uthrow>*anything* with marth. He can practically uthrow>knee you. Getting grabbed by marth typically results in the loss of about 1/2 stock if not more.

If fox gets a grab or a shine combo going then he will pwn.
If Marth can get a grab or get Fox off the edge then he will pwn.

I think its about 55/60 in Marth favor, but more depends the stage...

 

[Bullet Bill]

Interesting how Drmario is neutral(ish) to almost every character

 

[SCOTU]

how many shine combos do you see being done on marth that aren't from those at the top of the tech player tier list? most ppl just waveshine>grab. That's the only shine combo that ppl tend to use on mart, so basically, what you're saying is if fox gets a grab. and don't try to say it's easier becuase the shine leads into one, every one of marth's aerials leads into a grab against fox. i'd say it's a 6-4 in marth's favor. because marth has a huge grab game and edgegaurding game against fox.

 

[thesage]

Marth = gayest character in the game. Nobody can gay him.

 

[1048576]

1. Marth has a girlfriend (in Japan anyway)

2. Falco, Fox, and IC's have much cheaper tactics than Marth's f-smash.

 

[shotafan]

Its weird how many players make ridiculous claims about their characters. I'm a hardcore Peach player, but even I know that Peach has bad matchups, (like againts fox and sheik). You have ta be willing to admit your own character's weaknesses to be a good player...

 

[BigRick]

how many shine combos do you see being done on marth that aren't from those at the top of the tech player tier list? most ppl just waveshine>grab. That's the only shine combo that ppl tend to use on mart, so basically, what you're saying is if fox gets a grab. and don't try to say it's easier becuase the shine leads into one, every one of marth's aerials leads into a grab against fox. i'd say it's a 6-4 in marth's favor. because marth has a huge grab game and edgegaurding game against fox.

Don't forget that not all matches are played on FD. Fox is the hardest char to grab in the game. Aerial to grab doesn't work at all %. Fox can also kill Marth at relatively low %. Shinespike is a wildcard in this matchup. Falco is more prone to die from Marth's stuff than Fox, while he has a competent offense against Marth that isn't really better than Fox's so...

5-5 Marth/Fox
6-4 Marth/Falco

 

[Pasqual]

So I tried to search the thread before I posted this, but it couldn't really narrow it down well enough. Can someone explain the Ness-Roy matchup to me? I really don't see it being that far in Ness' favor.

 

[phanna]

So I tried to search the thread before I posted this, but it couldn't really narrow it down well enough. Can someone explain the Ness-Roy matchup to me? I really don't see it being that far in Ness' favor.

I would've gotten that original number from the Ness boards, but I agree it's vastly inflated. It should drop to at least 6-4, if not even. I mean just look at Angry Lobster vs QueenDVS' Roy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_WdTkqaPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjFHBhe6aKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bBXyyXdnto

 

[Pat/Pro]

Phanna are you ever going to fix that marth/shiek number. No one believes that its 7-3 in shieks favor but you.

 

[DarkKnight077]

Aslo that Y. Link vs Link is wrong.

 

[All_Characters]

Its a great idea this chart, but you should gather a bit more information before you make it. Because there are some large mistakes in it.

eg: Jigglypuff 4-5 vs marth.

ANY, and i mean any jigglypuff user will tell you that that is untrue, as marth is puffs biggest counter (consult the puff guides if you want). Marth should definately be much better against puff than fox, sheik , peach, ganon, pikachu and zelda. And why is pikachu so high against puff? Certainly a counter, but so more so than marth and certainly not that much of a counter.

This chart is an amazing idea and im hoping that you update it, because I'm sure the results will be amazing. Just try and research a bit moe before putting it up.

 

[Magus420]

ANY, and i mean any jigglypuff user will tell you that that is untrue, as marth is puffs biggest counter

Nope.

Marth should definately be much better against puff than fox, sheik

Nope.

 

[mood4food77]

once jiggs gets a hit on marth, doesn't she get like 4 more hits always, i mean as long as jiggs can play defensive against marth, it's pretty even

 

[All_Characters]

A: from personal experience, I know that marth is a big counter to jiggs.

B: check the jigglypuff guide in the puff section.

 

[1048576]

Seems like IC's would be worse than Marth. They have similar disjointed hitboxes, but IC's can desynch, giving them less lag. Marth has more range, but Jiggs has so much aerial mobility that it shouldn't matter.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

I would've gotten that original number from the Ness boards

I stopped reading after that. Of course it's inflated.

After looking at the chart again, I'm wondering who the **** made the Roy matchups. There's no way that he's evenly matched vs. Zelda, Luigi, or GW. There's also no way that Jigglypuff or Peach are only minor counters (4).

 

[All_Characters]

Seems like IC's would be worse than Marth. They have similar disjointed hitboxes, but IC's can desynch, giving them less lag. Marth has more range, but Jiggs has so much aerial mobility that it shouldn't matter.

It is very difficult to manouver properly in the air vs. Marth. If your off by just a little, and I mean VERY little. You get tippered to death at 40%.

 

[1048576]

And if Marth is off by a little he gets bair edgeguarded to death at a similar percentage.

 

[mood4food77]

marth ***** jiggs, jiggs has to get in reach first, forward b hurts jiggs at higher percents

 

[slikvik]

I think you guys should listen to Magus on this one

 

[REDRAGON]

How is the Mewtwo vs Bowser matchup???
It says its 5-5 but it seems to be in Bowsers favor just cause he can kill at way earlier percent!

Mewtwo dies at 100-120 easy
Bowser dies at 140-150 kinda easy



Redragon

 

[Dark Sonic]

I have to agree with Magus on this one. Shiek definately seems harder for Jiggs. With DI jiggs shouldn't die from a tipped foward smash till about 75-80% (except yoshi's story). Shiek's uair seems like it would be a much bigger problem, especialy since she can easily link into it with a d-throw. Marth's throw to f-smash can be DI'd out of if you catch it, but Shiek will be able to chase you with the Uair no matter where you go. Shiek also seems like she'd be more of a pain to edgeguard since she has a more variable recovery. At least with Marth you know where he's going to try to recover from. Marth's up B limits him to recovering from a specific section of the map, but Shiek has a lot more leeway with where she uses hers. It's still a tough matchup, but shiek is worse.

 

[Pat/Pro]

Yeah but rest combos are way easier to pull off on shiek than on marth. You can even rest shieks jab. The hardest matchup for jiggs is fox followed by marth and shiek in a tie.

 

[A-Laon]

Sheik can't just mindlessly powerhouse through puff's defenses. Also, a vigilant Jiggs has good potential for scoring hits and counter-attacks on Sheik. Sheik gets the upperhand in killing (dthrow - anything) and a difficult recovery to edgeguard. It's a horrible match-up, but on the other hand...

Marth is a veritable wall of steel and gayness.

Jiggly's in some serious trouble when her aerial game gets outprioritized, and Marth does just that quite easily. Breaking through Marth's defenses and getting on the offensive is ludicrously difficult for Jiggs, and even should it occur, the result won't necessarily be disasterous for Marth. Marth gets edgeguarded more easily than Sheik, but it shouldn't make much of a difference seeing as Marth really won't be getting hit in the first place.

 

[spKz]

nice one *downloads* props

 

[All_Characters]

So can we agree that even if marth isn't the biggest puff counter, Pikachu certainly isn't?

 

[ZoSo]

Falcon versus Fox is more like 3-7. It's tougher than Falco or Sheik, at any rate.

Falcon is even with Mario, but 7-3 against Doc? He beats DK but loses to Pikachu? Does not compute.

 

[ToP CaT]

does not indeed

 

[Dark Sonic]

Yeah but rest combos are way easier to pull off on shiek than on marth. You can even rest shieks jab. The hardest matchup for jiggs is fox followed by marth and shiek in a tie.

Yeah, but WoP combos are easier on Marth than Shiek. You can still rest Marth out of his grab (provided he JCs his grabs) which he'll be using a lot when he's trying to kill you.

Jiggly's in some serious trouble when her aerial game gets outprioritized, and Marth does just that quite easily. Breaking through Marth's defenses and getting on the offensive is ludicrously difficult for Jiggs, and even should it occur, the result won't necessarily be disasterous for Marth. Marth gets edgeguarded more easily than Sheik, but it shouldn't make much of a difference seeing as Marth really won't be getting hit in the first place.

Marth will have a more difficult time killing you than Shiek and that's a bad thing too. Marth's in some serious trouble when he can't edgeguard his opponent or combo them well enough to land a killing move. Jigglypuff still is at a large disadvantage because of Marth's large, disjointed hitboxes, but Shiek is still a harder matchup. After all, Shiek can just SHFFL uairs from underneath you hoping one will land. Marth gets to spam fairs and watch as you live to the low 100s (Marths aren't used to opponents living that long). He could SHFFL uairs too, but it won't be killing you for a long while.

 

[A-Laon]

So can we agree that even if marth isn't the biggest puff counter, Pikachu certainly isn't?

Pikachu isn't Jiggly's worst counter, but sure as hell is the most fun.

 

[Rohins]

Yes Captain loses to Pikachu. Here's why:

Pika can chain throw Captain
Pika's downsmash goes through Captain's arials
Pika's downsmash holds Captain easily because he's a fast faller (can still smash DI out)
Pika can combo Captain nicely
Pika's uair semi spike ***** the crap out of Captain's recovery

Captain kicks Pika's *** too, but I think the advantages Pika has put more restraint on Captain's play style, leading me to agree with the 4-5 matchup.

Please flame me for having an opinion.