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All Characters Match-up Chart (9/07 update)

A-Laon

A-Laon

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Where it all went wrong
Rohins said:
Yes Captain loses to Pikachu. Here's why:

Pika can chain throw Captain
Pika's downsmash goes through Captain's arials
Pika's downsmash holds Captain easily because he's a fast faller (can still smash DI out)
Pika can combo Captain nicely
Pika's uair semi spike ***** the crap out of Captain's recovery

Captain kicks Pika's *** too, but I think the advantages Pika has put more restraint on Captain's play style, leading me to agree with the 4-5 matchup.

Please flame me for having an opinion. :)
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This is all true. Not to mention the fact that Pikachu's uair and utilt, when spaced well, can beat a lot of Falcon's aerials. And who gives a crap about uair spiking his recovery? There's almost no moves Pikachu CAN'T use to edgeguard Falcon (which is why, personally, I like to torment recovering Falcons as long as possible :) ).

Anyway, the match-up is still relatively even as Falcon can do a lot to Pikachu as well, and Pikachu definitely doesn't have the staying power to survive most of it. Pikachu comes out with a slight advantage.
 
ZoSo

ZoSo

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Rohins said:
Yes Captain loses to Pikachu. Here's why:

Pika can chain throw Captain
Pika's downsmash goes through Captain's arials
Pika's downsmash holds Captain easily because he's a fast faller (can still smash DI out)
Pika can combo Captain nicely
Pika's uair semi spike ***** the crap out of Captain's recovery

Captain kicks Pika's *** too, but I think the advantages Pika has put more restraint on Captain's play style, leading me to agree with the 4-5 matchup.

Please flame me for having an opinion. :)
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I'll grant you that Pika can combo Falcon rather well, but suffice to say that it cuts both ways.

A lot of attacks go through Falcon's aerials. Truth be told, his aerial priority is pretty lackluster. However, Falcon beats people by circumventing their priority, not challenging it. A good example of this is Marth (who also doesn't have an advantage on Falcon, speaking of which). So, I will grant you that Pika's dsmash is pretty obtrusive to Falcon. However, any Pikachu players that think, "Oh, I'll just dsmash because it beats all his aerials!" will find themselves getting punished a lot.

I feel I should point out that Falcon is easily edgeguarded by just about anybody, so it's not really worth noting as a distinct advantage held by any one character.

And lol @ Pika's dsmash holding Falcon. It does how much? 14% if every hit connects?

I won't flame you for having an opinion. I just think you're a tad misguided. :) I don't know if you play Pika or Falcon or whatever, but I know from personal experience that a lot of Pika's shit just looks good on paper.
 
B

BigRick

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Pika has a crazy combo game but the rat doesn't do alot of dmg.
Pika can CG Falcon but don't forget that Pika has one of the worst grabs in the game.

I agree with ZoSo... Pika just looks very good on paper and this should be an even matchup (I dont want to say 4.5-5.5 so I'll just say even)

Btw, has Chu Dat ever used his Pika against a Falcon b4???
 
mood4food77

mood4food77

Smash Hero
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he can't combo CF as well as other characters can, like ness

pika is probably at a slight disadvantage

phanna, update this thing, we've been complaining for liek 5 months
 
Sync99

Sync99

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Feb 14, 2007
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I would agree with the Fox/Pichu match-up, I think a 2 suffices as a "severe" match-up. My friend's Pichu can beat Zig Zag's Pikachu (these are midwest smashers, Zig's Pika is the best pika in the state) sometimes, but gets totally owned by my Fox, and my Fox isn't that good but as long as I upthrow upair Pichu's dead under 90 on any map. IMO though, the match-up chart should just have 5 stats across. "Severe" "Tough" "Even" "Advantage" "Easy", as examples of the different types of match-ups. That way it would still be useful but people wouldn't complain about it as much. i'm sure the people who already know match-ups don't look at the current chart anyway. I have a feeling that people mostly look at the match-ups chart because they have no idea about a particular match-up (the young link vs peach caught me by surprise). There was something else I wanted to say but I forgot. Never watch movies while typing replies folks.
 
Asimio

Asimio

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
81
Okay, after reading in multiple places i've come to know that Fox, Sheik and Marth are of the bestest characters. I'm confused about Falco, according to the chart he should be there too.
Can't someone come up with a comparative article between these three characters, (Four if you include Falco) weighing out their pros and their cons, the effectivity of their moves, speed and other attributes?

By the way, I just burried my N64 (along with my love Super Smash Bros) since i bought a Wii. I'm getting Melee soon and i'm trying to choose which character i should TRY to master.
 
Sync99

Sync99

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Yeah Falco's really tough for CF, I know from a CF main (best in the state) that he hated Falcon b/c everyone got good with Falco, and he hated having to shield constantly and roll to be able to just get away from the "**** lasers". You ALWAYS have to say "****" right before "lasers" when referring to Falco.
 
A

All_Characters

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Apr 30, 2007
Messages
139
Sync99 said:
Yeah Falco's really tough for CF, I know from a CF main (best in the state) that he hated Falcon b/c everyone got good with Falco, and he hated having to shield constantly and roll to be able to just get away from the "**** lasers". You ALWAYS have to say "****" right before "lasers" when referring to Falco.
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I couldn't agree more. Falco's lasers force CF to make an over-agressive approach, which will be severely punished.

This doesn't just apply for CF. It applys for many characters (mostly low tier) that have no range.
 
A

All_Characters

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139
Sync99 said:
Yeah Falco's really tough for CF, I know from a CF main (best in the state) that he hated Falcon b/c everyone got good with Falco, and he hated having to shield constantly and roll to be able to just get away from the "**** lasers". You ALWAYS have to say "****" right before "lasers" when referring to Falco.
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I couldn't agree more. Falco's lasers force CF to make an over-agressive approach, which will be severely punished.

This doesn't just apply for CF. It applys for many characters (mostly low tier) that have no range.
 
Sync99

Sync99

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StripesOrBars said:
Falco and Falcon is not that bad for Falcon.

It's, at worst, 6-4 in Falco's favor.

And Sync: Stop please.
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Stop WHAT?

These are my opinions, if you disagree tell me what you disagree about instead of telling me to shut up XP

I agree that it's a 6-4 match-up. I'm going off personal experience from smashers that I normally play, but they study their mains and they know what their weaknesses are. The Falcons hate Falcos, in fact, most have abandoned Falcon simply because Falco exists.
 
S

shotafan

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Jun 4, 2007
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Peach doesn't do that bad againts Y.Links...if anything, Fox should be a greater counter (the chart makes it look like Y. Link would do better againts a Peach than a Fox...which simply isn't true CUZ FOX IS A B*TCH!)
 
ZoSo

ZoSo

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Sync99 said:
The Falcons hate Falcos, in fact, most have abandoned Falcon simply because Falco exists.
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I'd say there are worse reasons to quit Falcon.

I've never had that much trouble dealing with lasers. It's everything else about Falco that's annoying.
 
Sync99

Sync99

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An excellent point my good sir, hence why Falco's second on both the tier list and the match-ups chart totals. Yet, the firsts go to Fox and Sheik, respectively. I also disagree with the Falco vs Peach match-up, if anything it's even, not in Peach's favor.
 
mood4food77

mood4food77

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peach floats over SHL, comes in with aerial, dsmash hits for 2 hits minimum

falco can't do anything about it, he can try and mindgame but peach's dsmash ***** falco, and her throw set ups

falco's comboes are way inferior to peach's comboes
 
E

enigmaglue

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I belive the main idea of this was to show that there is no imbalance between characters. People who say that you "Counter-Charactered" are ususally not as skilled. I don't mean this in a negative way.
 
S

squaminator

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there definitely is imbalance. the best way to show which characters will win the most is to show which ones have the most favorable matchups, relative to the dittos.
 
1048576

1048576

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Pika can kill Jiggs at very low percents. Jiggs has trouble killing Pika until very high percents, since Pika can't really be edgeguarded or rested.
 
F

FireceLink

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It should not be based on this chart or tier list should be just ranked by how goos you are with the actual character
 
1048576

1048576

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Well, Jiggs has no WoP, no rest, no combos whatsoever, and no edgeguard against Pika. Pika has the strongest vertical KO move in the game. It's worse than Fox. At least Jiggs can combo Fox.
 
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