-dMT-
Smash Lord
To be honest...I think it really is that I'm looking for the ftilt too much. Kinda playing it like the cs Fox MU. Big mistake. I guess I just wanted to confirm if the usmash finisher is legit on the ftilt lock for Wolf
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Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
falco and wolf isn't really a true 0-death you have to start delaying you ftilts to keep them lower they don't fall as fast as fpx and sheik. so even though they may look "at the height" they don't have the correct hit stun sometimes...
I don't know.
I used to have a lot of trouble with wolf if I remer correctly his lazer is hard to work around sometimes and he out ranges you in th air by a good margine. just gotta wait for his errors and punish them hard more so than jumping in and trying to force damage out of a situation. that'll just land you a lot of damage yourself I've learned.
don't underestimate characters you can lock well...
I don't know.
I used to have a lot of trouble with wolf if I remer correctly his lazer is hard to work around sometimes and he out ranges you in th air by a good margine. just gotta wait for his errors and punish them hard more so than jumping in and trying to force damage out of a situation. that'll just land you a lot of damage yourself I've learned.
don't underestimate characters you can lock well...
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Shine has invincible frames and comes out on frame 8. If we SDI the right way, which I know how now (after pound 4 where I got ***** by Snakeee's Sheik //wrists) and are able to shine at any time then we can escape. Oh and the Ftilt>Usmash on Wolf is inescapable for Wolf sadly.
If you're going to c3 Tristin then play me! I want to make sure I finally got escaping the tilt lock down. So I won't have to use Mk vs Sheiks.
If you're going to c3 Tristin then play me! I want to make sure I finally got escaping the tilt lock down. So I won't have to use Mk vs Sheiks.
You can't escape ftilt locks. ftilt->ftilt is a true combo after a certain percent. sheik can turn around on reaction to you trying to DI through her. Your best bet is trying to DI up and out.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I thought I went into detail to you about how you couldn't escape....
Well whatever, it's not organized largely in part because I don't see wolf as a threat but here are the raw numbers I promised
http://www.mediafire.com/?2tydzmygz1j
By the way the Frame adv your looking for is 5, the decays 1.05 0.9 0.81 0.73 0.66 0.6 0.55 0.51 0.48 0.46, and the damage the Ftilt does is 5 5 4 4 4 3 2.5 3 3 2.5.
Don't underestimate!!
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
I can at lower percents I thought? Wasn't it you who told me it wasn't a true tilt lock? I know how I cannot escape at certain percents. Sheik so confusing. If I'm looking for 5 as frame advantage then Wolf's Nair comes out on frame 4.
Frame advantage means the number of frames before pressing buttons does anything. Sheik's ftilt hits on frame 5. So if she gets only 4 frames of advantage, for example, then you have one frame to hit down+B and get that Shine invincibility.
NO-IDea
Smash Lord
Oh Tristan you silly fool. When will you learn to look beyond the numbers?
Your gameplay and decay tactics don't have to be perfect. I've played Seagull's Wolf with my Sheik plenty of times. He does much better against my Samus than my Sheik, that's for sure.
But the point I'm trying to make is that whatever happened to purposefully letting him shine? To shielding, then punishing with another f-tilt lock/d-smash/grab? If you think he's going to DI and jump away, follow-up with short hop n-air/u-air. Certainly not absolute, but great options nonetheless.
Focus less on decay and f-tilt in your game and more about reading your opponent. If you already know what works (which I know you do), then begin implementing things that shouldn't work. Because when you learn to read the player and not the character (which isn't to say character isn't important. Knowledge is power and you should know all options a character has), you'll find yourself doing more ridiculous stunts and noticing improvement that isn't Sheik exclusive.
Dekar and I were talking about you during second round pools. And I've drawn to this conclusion: you're suffering from a plateau (caused by theory-craft backed up by legitimate data) while everyone else is learning their characters and MUs. Focus less on Sheik (the character) and more on yourself (the player). I almost want to say try picking up a different character for a while, but that may be asking too much.
Your gameplay and decay tactics don't have to be perfect. I've played Seagull's Wolf with my Sheik plenty of times. He does much better against my Samus than my Sheik, that's for sure.
But the point I'm trying to make is that whatever happened to purposefully letting him shine? To shielding, then punishing with another f-tilt lock/d-smash/grab? If you think he's going to DI and jump away, follow-up with short hop n-air/u-air. Certainly not absolute, but great options nonetheless.
Focus less on decay and f-tilt in your game and more about reading your opponent. If you already know what works (which I know you do), then begin implementing things that shouldn't work. Because when you learn to read the player and not the character (which isn't to say character isn't important. Knowledge is power and you should know all options a character has), you'll find yourself doing more ridiculous stunts and noticing improvement that isn't Sheik exclusive.
Dekar and I were talking about you during second round pools. And I've drawn to this conclusion: you're suffering from a plateau (caused by theory-craft backed up by legitimate data) while everyone else is learning their characters and MUs. Focus less on Sheik (the character) and more on yourself (the player). I almost want to say try picking up a different character for a while, but that may be asking too much.
^
good advice.
good advice.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
In a nutshell:
Learn the basics of the art of war to achieve victory, as specializing in a weapon alone does not merit success.
I like swords, though. 
thexsunrosered
Smash Lord
>.< mars ftl lol
I think I can fight metas now...
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
So I have one frame to Nair since that comes out on frame 4. Gahhhhhhh.
My brain hurts. I'm going Mk on Sheik. I hate this matchup. I'll go Wolf on your Samus though Noid. I heard your the 2nd best in the worldddddd. Behind Xyro of course.
No, you'll have -3 frames to nair, lol. It's better for you to look at it like this - frame advantage adds that much to the startup of your attack compared to the startup of the opponent's. So if Sheik has +4 frame advantage,
Sheik ftilt = 5 frames
Wolf nair = 4 + 4 = 8 frames
You should be going for the Shine, because
Sheik ftilt = 5 frames
Wolf Shine = 1 + 4 = 5 frames, frame 5 invincibility
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Oh. Thanks Ankoku. Now I know.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Wait... doesn't that mean Sheik's ftilt>usmash is not legit when she has +4 frame advantage?
I might be inaccurate, if you're not allowed to buffer out of hitstun.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Everything you say is true, I've barely improve at all with my Sheik for a few weeks now and it's frustrating me to the extremes because like you said I need to improve as a player. I need more practice against high level players, players who are much better then me, players I can ask questions and get answers. I could go on about this subject for most likely another ten sentences but there's no point to rant here. Although it's worth saying I noted 10 things I need to work on after pound and I still got jack chain to add to my play. Anyways I've already done what you suggested and have picked up Meta Knight . I hate how he feels when I use him but the man got options and depth.
^_^ It's going to be funny when in two to three months he becomes better then my Sheik, let's hope I don't get too drunk with victory.
About what you said though about ending the lock early and doing things that aren't 100% guaranteed, although reading your opponent can be very beneficial like you said shielding the shine or following up the DI the thing is Sheik options generally do similar damage and in some cases knock back. Stopping your Tilt lock early against someone like Wolf or Marth will work better then someone like Snake because his C-c-combo breaker means they has to focus downward or upward so it's possible to follow up with another Tilt lock this much is true but other options like Dsmash and grab are poor when thinking of damage and even the weak follow up when mix with room for error. Edit: In other words you can't Ftilt again against Snake because of his nade, if someone "combo breaker" is bad enough to give you enough adv OoS to Ftilt then by all means but until you know that there's no point really to do something else.
Following up their DI and using attack that aren't guaranteed is something I already do, however when using attacks that aren't guaranteed I prefer to only use grab, Uair, and Usmashs. Everything else is just too difficult to land when it's not guaranteed or you have a option better then a stand alone hit. Something else I do that I don't talk about much is doing things when I'm short by 2-4 frames. It's very much up dependent but it can make the difference from landing a Usmash and not.
Your a smart player and the fact you do so well with Samus I wouldn't be surprise if your just a better player then me but please don't lecture me about the Ftilt and how to use it.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
Took me 1 week with MK before it got better than my Sheik. lol..yea...
If I used MK at tournaments, things would be different. I enjoy Sheik though, and thus will represent.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
>_<' Please let me continue to pretend that years of practice with Sheik can't be outdone with a week of practice with Meta knight.
-dMT-
Smash Lord
OK OK..I'll admit..I had used MK for about 2 weeks at one point back in early brawl. If I retained any knowledge from back then, somehow, it MAY have expedited my picking up MK recently.
Nah. Who am I kidding. One week with MK will outdo about 6 months of Sheik.
That's about as accurate as frame data lol.
Nah. Who am I kidding. One week with MK will outdo about 6 months of Sheik.
That's about as accurate as frame data lol.
Jo0
Smash Cadet
True, I picked up Meta 2 weeks ago and I notice that I'm better with him than my shiek. :/ Sad, really...I like shiek alot.
East
Crappy Imitation
MK was the character I said I was going to main before brawl came out...
true story.
true story.
things obviously changed
You will generally perform better with a top tier character over a mid-low tier unless you're a truly terrible player. This is true for any competitive fighter.
Jo0
Smash Cadet
The plus side with me using meta is that my shiek's playstyle migrated over to my meta style. The only problem I have about switching from meta to shiek is that I DI with the wrong moves and I approach with D-Air more than F/B-air
-dMT-
Smash Lord
lol Sheik dair approach = asking for quick AND painful death.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
huh... My Meta knight doesn't play anything like my Sheik, in fact he's more of a rabid infest beast who's only goal is to make whatever I'm fighting bleed until 100% then I Dsmash them.
Basically he's just instant gratification, like Melee Sheik.... Which is why he's so popular which is why he's so good.
Sheik is the Korean RPG of Smash.
Meta knight is the Halo 3 of Smash
Basically he's just instant gratification, like Melee Sheik.... Which is why he's so popular which is why he's so good.
Sheik is the Korean RPG of Smash.
Meta knight is the Halo 3 of Smash
I never liked console FPS games.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
I'm actually pretty decent at them, in fact if MLG allowed radar in halo 3 and if Brawl was a bit worst as a game I would of most likely be still playing that over smash right now. Before Brawl came out I was 40 in team objective, 45 in team slayer, and 47 in lone wolves.... I think
thexsunrosered
Smash Lord
Honestly tristan, I think you should play as someone who isn't top tier like mk. Your whole goal in this is to get better as a player, and by using a better character you're kind of working backwards if you know what I mean. I think you should at least try someone like marth or like, even pit or something >.> .... okay maybe not pit, but I think you get what I'm saying.
Like as of right now, I consider myself to be an excellent player because I'm a successful Ganon main... well obviously I'm doing SOMETHING right if I'm successful with Ganon lol I HAD to learn to read and space and predict if I wanted to get anywhere, and if I hadn't I wouldn't be successful i.e. natural selection of brawl lol
I don't really feel like I concluded this post well, but I don't know what else to say o.o
Like as of right now, I consider myself to be an excellent player because I'm a successful Ganon main... well obviously I'm doing SOMETHING right if I'm successful with Ganon lol I HAD to learn to read and space and predict if I wanted to get anywhere, and if I hadn't I wouldn't be successful i.e. natural selection of brawl lol
I don't really feel like I concluded this post well, but I don't know what else to say o.o
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Well there's a few other reasons to pick meta knight over someone like Marth. Things like learning meta knight faults are, having the option to use him as a secondary, and the most influential of them all Meta knight is good on wifi.
Since I've had a taste of oh so sweet offline Sheik playing on wifi has become more of a daily to bi-daily chore then entertainment. When I use Meta knight I don't need to worry about connection really and since I've never used meta knight on a offline non cpu match and I'm not even close to a average level yet with Meta knight the laggy connection doesn't make me feel too limited. Although if I ever play offline I guess I use Marth or something, he was my third in Melee.
Since I've had a taste of oh so sweet offline Sheik playing on wifi has become more of a daily to bi-daily chore then entertainment. When I use Meta knight I don't need to worry about connection really and since I've never used meta knight on a offline non cpu match and I'm not even close to a average level yet with Meta knight the laggy connection doesn't make me feel too limited. Although if I ever play offline I guess I use Marth or something, he was my third in Melee.
Having MK as a secondary is pretty much the same thing as having MK as a primary. You play a match with your "main" get wrecked and then swap out for your sub? No, no... your secondary is supposed to cover your bad match ups.
My MK is pretty bad by the way. I suicide a lot... more.
All of my secondaries work well with how I play. bait and punish. Jiggly, wolf even bowser to an extent when I play him is all are all about baiting openings and punishing them.
I think I can beat metas now with sheik.
My MK is pretty bad by the way. I suicide a lot... more.
All of my secondaries work well with how I play. bait and punish. Jiggly, wolf even bowser to an extent when I play him is all are all about baiting openings and punishing them.
I think I can beat metas now with sheik.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
MK is plain laughable to me. I'm working on a Wario just to give people Wario experience.
