iLight
Smash Lord
yay my ROB d-smash still top tier
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Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
choknater
Smash Obsessed
if only our dsmash wasnt so laggy LOL. gotta connect!
I could've sworn Sheik's dsmash was one frame slower than Zelda's.
iLight
Smash Lord
^^^ this
this 10x
this 10x
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I really gotta do that stuff I promised to do on frame advance for the Luc boards and check sheik's while I'm at it lol.
Edit: I was wrong about marth dsmash too
. All I know is that if MK dsmash hits Marth's shield, marth dsmash is a really cool punish b/c it almost always tips after MK's dsmash hits your shield.
Edit: I was wrong about marth dsmash too
. All I know is that if MK dsmash hits Marth's shield, marth dsmash is a really cool punish b/c it almost always tips after MK's dsmash hits your shield.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
http://www.brickfish.com/Pages/Phot...x?picid=1280451_50425904&pid=4727292&scid=593
our dsmash is mad good.
i gamble with it all day. ff nair on shield, DSMASH cuz they like to try to counter nair. if they block both
im FU*********************************ed
our dsmash is mad good.
i gamble with it all day. ff nair on shield, DSMASH cuz they like to try to counter nair. if they block both
im FU*********************************ed
iLight
Smash Lord
i almost never ff nair, but that's just me, maybe i should
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i assumed nair was the fastest oos punish shiek had. so i use it the same way mks use nair oos. if they hit my shield and are right on top of me, or if its the only thing fast enough to work
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
grab oos is underrated imo
then again i fap to sheiks grab LOL
then again i fap to sheiks grab LOL
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
choknater
Smash Obsessed
dat duck. so gahtlike
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
If SH FF nair is buffered, you don't get any landing lag at all from nair, pretty tight imo.
I use nair differently depending on the char.
I use nair differently depending on the char.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
I use nair pretty conservatively. Most notable use I use it for is for edgeguarding.
Run off - drop down - jump nair
Run off - drop down - jump nair
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i use nair oos as my main oos move
and i do the mango where i hit someone's shield with the beginning of it and fade away
its not as effective in brawl though LOL! :X
and i do the mango where i hit someone's shield with the beginning of it and fade away
its not as effective in brawl though LOL! :X
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
I remember a couple of people talking about joining the military on here. I'm just curious if anyone has done it yet. I know Tristan has, but I was pretty sure 1 or 2 more people had mentioned it.
TKD
Smash Lord
sorry for the long post.
There's no newcomer thread, so I'm posting this here.
I decided to start playing Sheik. I played her like 60% of my matches yesterday.
My favorite move is probably B. Walk or dash away, pivot needle is an awesome move. I like to throw a couple needles, then throw one more. Most people are caught off-guard by that. As long as it always looks like you can needle (and you almost always can thanks to pivots), opponents start acting differently (no one wants to be needled for free).
As long as you're in an ambiguous distance outside of the opponent's range that means you can approach, walking away or dashing away and pivot needle is good: I love charging them as I see if they do something, and releasing if they do. There's no need to throw them all the time, of course. For approaches, it depends on the match-up.
Needles are free, easy damage AND serve for behavior control. These are meant to be timed as the opponent plans to dash, walk, unblock, or anything!~, to be timed so they hit as the opponent reaches the ground, as they recover, etc.. Charged needles can do pretty good damage and they have a high rate for item dropping (it's not rare for a needle to make Snake drop a grenade and for another to blow it up).
The more needles you have charged, the safer they are on hit (if only slightly). If you have fully charged needles, I recommend using them quickly so you can keep throwing them. It shouldn't be telegraphed though, but that's easy: as soon as the opponent will move, or after they've short-hopped and then air-jumped (because of thinking you'd needle their shorthop landing). In fact, if they air-jump, they give you positional advantage, so sometimes the lone idea of being needled puts them in bad spots.
As for some match-ups...I played vs link, ic, mk, marth, ddd.
I don't think Link needs explaining. Against IC, I'd needle the most possible (although a single ice block can stop multiple needles!), or be caught into powerblocking an ice block and the next (thinking about it now, it's probably easier to jab them). I think zoning IC has to do with spacing tipper ftilt because their small shield-grab may have trouble with it. Fair may work too, but just barely. I didn't see many options to work with vs IC...but I haven't tested it enough and still only lost one match vs them.
MK is a fun match-up. Sheik is quick enough to chase him in the air, and MK can't really be passive because of needles. They should be timed so you hit him as he acts (unblocks or moves), and so the opponent has no chance to retaliate. Grabbing MK is very good of course. You either put him in the air with a throw, or if there's no obstacle, grab release usmash. Spacing outside his range opens MK for some reason. He suddenly tilts or allows you to walk in and shieldgrab; and if he puts himself in the air, you can wait for him to act and air-jump aerial, or surprise with the quick air-jump aerial impromptu.
Mach Tornado...it can be powerblocked and punished of course. Dsmash completely outprioritizes it, so I'd perform it as it initially homes in, or as it homes in again after being taken away from my shield (moment during which you can also powerblock again, but Sheik has no need to spend her shield). If you get hit and pop out of it, I recommend performing nair/fair or nothing, as airjumping puts you very high above the opponent and air-dodging will probably underlast the move.
A lot of Marth's moves can be shieldgrabbed or naired from block. He's sort of easy to needle, but you have to watch for his ability to shorthop (needle quicker than he's jump or from farther away for safety). As Marth lands, he can be needled, but your opponent can land with downb (still, a preemptive downb may be bad for marth if you decide not to needle him). Marth can upb inbetween utilt's 2 hits, so don't utilt when your opponent can react to it (for example, always in the same situation, or to end an ftilt string: hop+nair will be a better follow-up). If you're out of shield, rush him or move away. The chance of you needling him will make him either attempt a rush in, or stay put giving your shield chances to replenish. For edgeguard: needle him if nothing else. Drift away from him in the air and hit him after he whiffs anything if you join him offstage. If he drifts too high + near to the ledge, DACUS (if there's time) or dash attack. Oh yeah, juggle Marth. He makes for a good juggle...but then again, who doesn't for sheik...she has a quick aerial into everywhere, very quick tilts, a quick dash attack and can dash into block very quickly...
While MK and Marth were the easiest, DDD may be the toughest match-up for Sheik that I played (him or IC). Let's run this through:
DDD can shield-grab any aerial we land with. He can grab us out of a grab or dash grab attempt. He forms a polar opposite in weight to sheik's KO ability (which may be just fine...against light/midweights). So upfront, there are notable disadvantages here.
Still, DDD is controlled by nothing more than a player.
Some mistakes you can provoke: Walking away so DDD whiffs an ftilt: DACUS him during his cooldown. (you can dash grab or dash attack him if you block it too). Drifting away so he whiffs a bair (make sure it can't reach!): hit his now closer body with an aerial. Walking away from just outside his grab range: punish the whiffed grab. Things like that...which Sheik can pretty much do vs every char.
Good thing DDD's an easy juggle and has a bad recovery. Needles work fine against him too (his speed somewhat disallows him to reach you quickly, but his size on the other hand can corner you quickly too). If the opponent's distracted or somewhat stuck, you can surprise with a grab (dashgrab works fine if unexpected).
Anyway, ddd and ic are DIFFICULT. Sheik's options are limited against them, unlike vs, what; the rest of the cast? Marth's slightly limiting but I don't think that's a huge deal...if I'm to predict another tricky match-up, it'll be Pikachu. He cgs sheik as he does Fox, right? Although Sheik has grab release usmash (I think dacus sends him up and regular sends him sideways: possible mixup lol), you'll probably main Zelda against him and transform into Sheik when there's a chance to (or when above 50% or w/e).
About being juggled, drifting away from the opponent works. Pivot needle if convenient. They'll usually block expecting an aerial, which they can't punish if you don't perform it. The opponent may also perform an attack, which you can air-dodge (you can't air-dodge early though, as people can simply react to that). If you see a shield, that means the opponent can't dash quickly, a good time to fast-fall.
So umm...yeah. This char's awesome. She needs to be played real careful though, sort of like a...better Lucario (weak moves and stuff, but better speed, mobility, projectile and recovery).
There's no newcomer thread, so I'm posting this here.
I decided to start playing Sheik. I played her like 60% of my matches yesterday.
My favorite move is probably B. Walk or dash away, pivot needle is an awesome move. I like to throw a couple needles, then throw one more. Most people are caught off-guard by that. As long as it always looks like you can needle (and you almost always can thanks to pivots), opponents start acting differently (no one wants to be needled for free).
As long as you're in an ambiguous distance outside of the opponent's range that means you can approach, walking away or dashing away and pivot needle is good: I love charging them as I see if they do something, and releasing if they do. There's no need to throw them all the time, of course. For approaches, it depends on the match-up.
Needles are free, easy damage AND serve for behavior control. These are meant to be timed as the opponent plans to dash, walk, unblock, or anything!~, to be timed so they hit as the opponent reaches the ground, as they recover, etc.. Charged needles can do pretty good damage and they have a high rate for item dropping (it's not rare for a needle to make Snake drop a grenade and for another to blow it up).
The more needles you have charged, the safer they are on hit (if only slightly). If you have fully charged needles, I recommend using them quickly so you can keep throwing them. It shouldn't be telegraphed though, but that's easy: as soon as the opponent will move, or after they've short-hopped and then air-jumped (because of thinking you'd needle their shorthop landing). In fact, if they air-jump, they give you positional advantage, so sometimes the lone idea of being needled puts them in bad spots.
As for some match-ups...I played vs link, ic, mk, marth, ddd.
I don't think Link needs explaining. Against IC, I'd needle the most possible (although a single ice block can stop multiple needles!), or be caught into powerblocking an ice block and the next (thinking about it now, it's probably easier to jab them). I think zoning IC has to do with spacing tipper ftilt because their small shield-grab may have trouble with it. Fair may work too, but just barely. I didn't see many options to work with vs IC...but I haven't tested it enough and still only lost one match vs them.
MK is a fun match-up. Sheik is quick enough to chase him in the air, and MK can't really be passive because of needles. They should be timed so you hit him as he acts (unblocks or moves), and so the opponent has no chance to retaliate. Grabbing MK is very good of course. You either put him in the air with a throw, or if there's no obstacle, grab release usmash. Spacing outside his range opens MK for some reason. He suddenly tilts or allows you to walk in and shieldgrab; and if he puts himself in the air, you can wait for him to act and air-jump aerial, or surprise with the quick air-jump aerial impromptu.
Mach Tornado...it can be powerblocked and punished of course. Dsmash completely outprioritizes it, so I'd perform it as it initially homes in, or as it homes in again after being taken away from my shield (moment during which you can also powerblock again, but Sheik has no need to spend her shield). If you get hit and pop out of it, I recommend performing nair/fair or nothing, as airjumping puts you very high above the opponent and air-dodging will probably underlast the move.
A lot of Marth's moves can be shieldgrabbed or naired from block. He's sort of easy to needle, but you have to watch for his ability to shorthop (needle quicker than he's jump or from farther away for safety). As Marth lands, he can be needled, but your opponent can land with downb (still, a preemptive downb may be bad for marth if you decide not to needle him). Marth can upb inbetween utilt's 2 hits, so don't utilt when your opponent can react to it (for example, always in the same situation, or to end an ftilt string: hop+nair will be a better follow-up). If you're out of shield, rush him or move away. The chance of you needling him will make him either attempt a rush in, or stay put giving your shield chances to replenish. For edgeguard: needle him if nothing else. Drift away from him in the air and hit him after he whiffs anything if you join him offstage. If he drifts too high + near to the ledge, DACUS (if there's time) or dash attack. Oh yeah, juggle Marth. He makes for a good juggle...but then again, who doesn't for sheik...she has a quick aerial into everywhere, very quick tilts, a quick dash attack and can dash into block very quickly...
While MK and Marth were the easiest, DDD may be the toughest match-up for Sheik that I played (him or IC). Let's run this through:
DDD can shield-grab any aerial we land with. He can grab us out of a grab or dash grab attempt. He forms a polar opposite in weight to sheik's KO ability (which may be just fine...against light/midweights). So upfront, there are notable disadvantages here.
Still, DDD is controlled by nothing more than a player.
Some mistakes you can provoke: Walking away so DDD whiffs an ftilt: DACUS him during his cooldown. (you can dash grab or dash attack him if you block it too). Drifting away so he whiffs a bair (make sure it can't reach!): hit his now closer body with an aerial. Walking away from just outside his grab range: punish the whiffed grab. Things like that...which Sheik can pretty much do vs every char.
Good thing DDD's an easy juggle and has a bad recovery. Needles work fine against him too (his speed somewhat disallows him to reach you quickly, but his size on the other hand can corner you quickly too). If the opponent's distracted or somewhat stuck, you can surprise with a grab (dashgrab works fine if unexpected).
Anyway, ddd and ic are DIFFICULT. Sheik's options are limited against them, unlike vs, what; the rest of the cast? Marth's slightly limiting but I don't think that's a huge deal...if I'm to predict another tricky match-up, it'll be Pikachu. He cgs sheik as he does Fox, right? Although Sheik has grab release usmash (I think dacus sends him up and regular sends him sideways: possible mixup lol), you'll probably main Zelda against him and transform into Sheik when there's a chance to (or when above 50% or w/e).
About being juggled, drifting away from the opponent works. Pivot needle if convenient. They'll usually block expecting an aerial, which they can't punish if you don't perform it. The opponent may also perform an attack, which you can air-dodge (you can't air-dodge early though, as people can simply react to that). If you see a shield, that means the opponent can't dash quickly, a good time to fast-fall.
So umm...yeah. This char's awesome. She needs to be played real careful though, sort of like a...better Lucario (weak moves and stuff, but better speed, mobility, projectile and recovery).
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
This is really neat. Both thanks for the nice information and welcome to Sheik!!
Edit: Yea, Pika's CG is worse on Sheik than it is on Fox and though he has a small grab range, he doesnt have too much trouble landing it. ESAM proved that to me though I'd like to try again sometime. Zelda helps yes, but you have to have Zelda keeping up with or beating the Pika in order to make the switch work optimally. Zelda trailing against Pika limits clean chances to switch.
DDD isn't too bad, but he can certainly be annoying. A good baiting game is great like you mentioned but it's also worth mentioning that Bair is a great tool in the MU. You can either space fully or crossover Bair as a mixup, and if you cover the crossover with jab, it's relatively safe. There would need to be big prediction in order to punish it.
ICs are grrrr........ But I want to practice MU more before I begin to agree with everyone else lol.
Marth is simple, but you still have to be on point with punishes and spacing because he can take space away quickly. He can gimp us very easily as well which is why it's his favor but not by much.
MK is MK.....but I did not know about Dsmash so that's a really nice find against tornado. When you do get hit by tornado, what's your method to pop out?
Edit: Yea, Pika's CG is worse on Sheik than it is on Fox and though he has a small grab range, he doesnt have too much trouble landing it. ESAM proved that to me though I'd like to try again sometime. Zelda helps yes, but you have to have Zelda keeping up with or beating the Pika in order to make the switch work optimally. Zelda trailing against Pika limits clean chances to switch.
DDD isn't too bad, but he can certainly be annoying. A good baiting game is great like you mentioned but it's also worth mentioning that Bair is a great tool in the MU. You can either space fully or crossover Bair as a mixup, and if you cover the crossover with jab, it's relatively safe. There would need to be big prediction in order to punish it.
ICs are grrrr........ But I want to practice MU more before I begin to agree with everyone else lol.
Marth is simple, but you still have to be on point with punishes and spacing because he can take space away quickly. He can gimp us very easily as well which is why it's his favor but not by much.
MK is MK.....but I did not know about Dsmash so that's a really nice find against tornado. When you do get hit by tornado, what's your method to pop out?
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
So I'm dropping Sheik.
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
So I was carpooling with spongejordan last week and we were talking about sheik and stuff.
He said that tutu was his favorite sheik main.
:[
He said that tutu was his favorite sheik main.
:[
choknater
Smash Obsessed
sheik is the funnest char lawl dont see why anyone wouldnt
clowsui
Smash Legend
welcome to the sheik boards TKD!
you'll find that while there are few posters here most of them are intelligent xD
judo and ed are currently the best sheiks around unless renki has surpassed ed. but even still, those will be your "discussion peers" haha
you'll find that while there are few posters here most of them are intelligent xD
judo and ed are currently the best sheiks around
unless renki has surpassed ed. but even still, those will be your "discussion peers" hahaSailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
Aka please don't listen to anyone that's not judo, ed or Renki.welcome to the sheik boards TKD!
you'll find that while there are few posters here most of them are intelligent xD
judo and ed are currently the best sheiks around
Icu
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Everyone has good input lol. Except Kenni when he's trolling but then again it isn't often trolls are listened to lol. <3 ya Kenni.
It'll just be better to have the boards more active regardless. Sorry I haven't been able to contribute to it being active but my laptop finally crashed. It's hard off of iPhone since it kills the battery like no other lol.
It'll just be better to have the boards more active regardless. Sorry I haven't been able to contribute to it being active but my laptop finally crashed. It's hard off of iPhone since it kills the battery like no other lol.
TKD
Smash Lord
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
You can't pop out of tornado unless the Mk does it incorrectly iirc.
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
dont listen to them tkd im best sheik
also i told you guys like 3 months ago that the secondary hitboxes of dsmash break nado ;(
im not -that- bad, you know
also i told you guys like 3 months ago that the secondary hitboxes of dsmash break nado ;(
im not -that- bad, you know
clowsui
Smash Legend
yeah it's cause scrubs like tutu exist on this earth
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i look forward to seeing vids of a good player playing shiek as opposed to watching people that are just good with shiek (and there arent many of those vids either)
KenniSpam!
Smash Master
none of my good vids get recorded
Wtf does this even mean..........
Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.
Smash Master
He's saying that those of us who use Sheik may be good at using Sheik but that we are bad as players, and that he's looking forward to seeing a good player use Sheik.
tldr Sheik boards are bad at smash.
tldr Sheik boards are bad at smash.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
KID, I'm sure you didn't mean anything bad by what you said but I didn't really enjoy that comment. It's probably earned because we really haven't broken through too much but we are getting there. Trust me on this!
<3 ya KiD
<3 ya KiD
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
I <3 the shieks too, its why I stick around. The character is very fun to play, I would like to see her do well and i would probably bust her out in tournament if I could DACUS at all (im not even consistent when I do it with falco but at least with him it comes out sometimes.)
But that doesnt change the fact that when i hear people talk about 2-2 or Ed, its always, 'I love watching his shiek' or 'hes def the best shiek player out there' Where as when I see people talk about TKD its, ' TKD is one of the top 5 players in North america' and 'TKD is probably one of the only people that could beat m2k' The emphasis is placed on his skill as a player rather than just his accomplishments relative to the character.
Basically, its like asking yourself, if you could choose, would you rather be Vermanubis or Seibrik?
Verm is essntially established as the best ganon player out there, but he struggles to make it past 9th place at any tournament he ever goes to. For the most part, people dont even think of Seibrik when the topic of top 5 metaknight players comes up, but hes still number 1 in florida, got 3rd at pound, and always places in the top 3 and makes money at every tournament in his own region. thats the difference I was refering to.
Its something i used to preach about on the sonic boards constantly. And its also the reason i dont play 100% sonic in tournament. id rather be seen as a top player than just a top player of my character.
also, I cant tell but based on your spelling of KiD, I think you might be confusing me (KID, all caps, sonic main from Upstate New York) with the other Kid (not all caps, falco main from New Jersey)
It makes it easier if you refer to me in all caps as KID whenever you are refering to me in the future. pls and ty in advance.
But that doesnt change the fact that when i hear people talk about 2-2 or Ed, its always, 'I love watching his shiek' or 'hes def the best shiek player out there' Where as when I see people talk about TKD its, ' TKD is one of the top 5 players in North america' and 'TKD is probably one of the only people that could beat m2k' The emphasis is placed on his skill as a player rather than just his accomplishments relative to the character.
Basically, its like asking yourself, if you could choose, would you rather be Vermanubis or Seibrik?
Verm is essntially established as the best ganon player out there, but he struggles to make it past 9th place at any tournament he ever goes to. For the most part, people dont even think of Seibrik when the topic of top 5 metaknight players comes up, but hes still number 1 in florida, got 3rd at pound, and always places in the top 3 and makes money at every tournament in his own region. thats the difference I was refering to.
Its something i used to preach about on the sonic boards constantly. And its also the reason i dont play 100% sonic in tournament. id rather be seen as a top player than just a top player of my character.
also, I cant tell but based on your spelling of KiD, I think you might be confusing me (KID, all caps, sonic main from Upstate New York) with the other Kid (not all caps, falco main from New Jersey)
It makes it easier if you refer to me in all caps as KID whenever you are refering to me in the future. pls and ty in advance.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
Good way to put it, also phone spelled your name like that lol!