Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[clowsui]

you guys realize that if kirby crouches and you throw needles he just shields on reaction? it chips his shield but if he powerblocks the first one it won't do it as much lol. kirby just ducks and crawls around and just sloooowwwwly plays a game of stage advantage

judo and i like to do finger diagrams whenever people want to know why sheik is bad against kirby, it's worth asking us whenever you see us in person LOL

"hey guys how is this matchup"
i look at judo, normally he just lets me do it
i put my fingers up, i show them that sheik's bair is a V shape horizontally, her fair is just a claw swipe, her ftilt is also a claw swipe, etc
then i show them kirby's back air, which stabs straight into sheik's genitals, meets her forward air, meets her forward tilt
and then judo tells them about how kirby can't be ftilt locked also and that's usually enough to satisfy people

 

[KenniSpam!]

what does kirby do vs running away and needling

yuiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[iLight]

kirby can't be f-tilt locked, but can be easily combo'd if you connect with one or a d-tilt, f-tilt->jab->f-tilt->anything almost lol confuses a lot of people and if they di away the f-tilt just pulls them back as always it becomes a super easy baiting game where you have the advantage at that point as your normal mix ups will work once you get him off the ground, at least that's my experience

 

[Tewx2]

O, to beat Kirby you have to stop him from using bair, not just avoid it... And it's really hard to stop someone from using a move if u have nothing to stop it.

 

[choknater]

yuiiiiiiiiiiiii

i made another one too

 

[KenniSpam!]

you didnt make those though ;O

 

[-Mars-]

Bair is so telegraphed.


"O Noez Kirby is in the air and his back is turned towards me, I wonder what he's going to do".

Seriously though he doesn't have the mobility to really mix it up on you. He's way too slow in the air.

He can take advantage of some blind sopts of Sheiks but imo it's not enough to really say the MU is bad.

Although I haven't really played a good kirby (do those exist?) to accurately gauge the MU.

 

[phi1ny3]

I've played kirby a couple of times (t!mmy's), It's tricky. You gotta do a lot of needling, smart reading play, and loooooooooots of movement (on the ground).

 

[iLight]

I've played against chu's kirby a couple times when i was up at the first Apex, the only way you end up losing is trying to take too much, you just get so excited b/c kirby has like no mobility and is really just a character for punishing, whereas sheik can create advantages for herself through speed especially when her opponent is slower than her in the air.

 

[Judo777]

I've played against chu's kirby a couple times when i was up at the first Apex, the only way you end up losing is trying to take too much, you just get so excited b/c kirby has like no mobility and is really just a character for punishing, whereas sheik can create advantages for herself through speed especially when her opponent is slower than her in the air.

I'm pretty sure kirby can duck 1 needle. If you throw a full storm he just shields. Now ducking is safe. Also his dtilt stuffs a tons of sheik grounded moves. And just because kirby is backwards in the air doesn't meanhe has to bair. He has the option of...... just landing.... or throwing out a retreating bair as he lands (sheik can't punish that very well, she has to commit to the punish while kirby still has the option to react and jump again and bair you.) every throw is a ton of damage cause im pretty sure utilt is gauanteed out of dthrow for a really long time. And depending on ur DI bair can string pretty well out of it. Its a mix up but if you jump he can bair you, if you airdodge he can fsmash. Both hurt bad.

And no dtilt doesn't combo into almost anything on kirby. And jab is fairly good but his dtilt stuffs alot of our grounded stuff. And running in and shielding above kirby isn't that safe either cause he can inhale us. Once kirby gets needles it gets gay.

Since when does kirbys airspeed matter that much. MK's doesn't matter either. The reason the MU sucks is its the MK MU..... without all the stuff we have on MK to make the MU less terrible.

 

[iLight]

i almost never speak of true combo's b/c i don't really know any i just play by mix up and what looks like it will work as the game goes on. In regards to having to commit, the closer kirby lets you get to him the more of an advantage you have in my opinion because of how it easy it is to buffer a powershield on sheik while on the ground, and if they stay up higher off the ground before doing stuff then I'm certain you can be patient enough to wait for an advantageous position,.

As far as using needles, I almost never camp with needles or use them as anything other than catching the other player off guard basically punishing them after they choose wrong at the end of a cross up and I almost never throw single needles unless its to hit someone off stage or really specific situations or to fllow up a full needle storm.

Kirby's d-tilt while being a good move for them, does not make us doing ground things even close to impossible, not to mention is it not a slow move in general? (lots of lag afterwards?) The move shouldn't be that hard to predict its not like kirby has tons of ground options when he is facing you and not moving, not to mention he's so slow in general you could bait it almost without even shielding and again super easy ground powershields from sheik.... I have never had that much difficulty with the match up as far as anything other than being patient.

 

[-Mars-]

Since when does kirbys airspeed matter that much. MK's doesn't matter either. The reason the MU sucks is its the MK MU..... without all the stuff we have on MK to make the MU less terrible.

MK's airspeed doesn't matter because he has tornado and a glide which are both extremely fast and tough options to deal with. I don't see how this is comparable to MK.

MK is also a lot harder to recover against. Kirby's airspeed coupled with his startup on his aerials makes him less threatening than characters like ROB and DDD offstage imo.

You live longer against Kirby as well. He really can't kill you early unless he gets a hard read fsmash.

 

[phi1ny3]

Kirby has an edgeguard game that's not to be underestimated though, better airspeed than D3/MK (fairly decent, just a little under average) and bair comes out at about the same time as D3 bair iirc. Plus he might have the gimmicky but usable swallow -> footstool.

 

[Judo777]

MK's airspeed doesn't matter because he has tornado and a glide which are both extremely fast and tough options to deal with. I don't see how this is comparable to MK.

MK is also a lot harder to recover against. Kirby's airspeed coupled with his startup on his aerials makes him less threatening than characters like ROB and DDD offstage imo.

You live longer against Kirby as well. He really can't kill you early unless he gets a hard read fsmash.

Actually IMO tornado and glide aren't really that big of a deal. Glide is actually pretty bad to use on sheik cause we can punish that crap all day by ftilting him while hes doing it. If he swings it clanks and you get a dsmash. And sheik is IMO one of the best characters in the game at punishing Nado. Its hard for nado to shield poke sheik and we can punish it like everytime with DA. MK's airspeed isn't a big deal.

And IMO kirbys gimp game compared to MK's isn't that far off for one main reason. One of our best options when forced to recover low is to try and use our double jump and speed to get MK to mistime an aerial and make it back onto the stage. However in kirbys case, he can throw out a biar early and then just wait. No timing required if we have to cross paths we get hit. Lasting aerials are a much bigger deal to sheik offstage than most chars.

@Light, you cannot reasonably expect to powershield kirbys moves all day. If so then thats the answer to every MU. If you are regularly powershielding kirbys aerials and punishing an entire match then the kirby is doing something wrong. Not all kirbys predictably spam bair. Some are smart about how they use it. Just curious how did you do vs chu's kirby?

And no kirbys ground game is actually very good. Idk what makes you think he has a bad ground game. His ground game is actually quite above average, with his good tilts and great grab.

 

[phi1ny3]

I don't think he has an amazing ground game, but at the same time there's definitely more to him than just bair lol.

Although it's admittedly pretty dumb how much damage he can do w/ dthrow -> utilt, either that or I totally suck at SDI to get out of it. He has a lot of juggle setups.

I still think there's a chance that one can use ground speed to work on him, but he's a pretty tricky fellow. He also ***** you if you happen to have a spotdodge habit (luckily out of my system a long time ago lol)

oh yeah and he can get really annoying if he does happen to get a copy ability from you, helps him camp you/edgeguard.

 

[Death Arcana]

Bair is so telegraphed.


"O Noez Kirby is in the air and his back is turned towards me, I wonder what he's going to do".

Seriously though he doesn't have the mobility to really mix it up on you. He's way too slow in the air.

He can take advantage of some blind sopts of Sheiks but imo it's not enough to really say the MU is bad.

Although I haven't really played a good kirby (do those exist?) to accurately gauge the MU.

what are you saying man
you got GKirby
the best

 

[iLight]

Actually IMO tornado and glide aren't really that big of a deal. Glide is actually pretty bad to use on sheik cause we can punish that crap all day by ftilting him while hes doing it. If he swings it clanks and you get a dsmash. And sheik is IMO one of the best characters in the game at punishing Nado. Its hard for nado to shield poke sheik and we can punish it like everytime with DA. MK's airspeed isn't a big deal.

And IMO kirbys gimp game compared to MK's isn't that far off for one main reason. One of our best options when forced to recover low is to try and use our double jump and speed to get MK to mistime an aerial and make it back onto the stage. However in kirbys case, he can throw out a biar early and then just wait. No timing required if we have to cross paths we get hit. Lasting aerials are a much bigger deal to sheik offstage than most chars.

@Light, you cannot reasonably expect to powershield kirbys moves all day. If so then thats the answer to every MU. If you are regularly powershielding kirbys aerials and punishing an entire match then the kirby is doing something wrong. Not all kirbys predictably spam bair. Some are smart about how they use it. Just curious how did you do vs chu's kirby?

And no kirbys ground game is actually very good. Idk what makes you think he has a bad ground game. His ground game is actually quite above average, with his good tilts and great grab.

i'll be honest i lost to chu's kirby in the 2 friendly matches i played against him, though both times i had a large advantage that i squandered through impatience, and yes honestly most of what kirby does is readable/you can react to it in time with decent reflexes or you can just generally get around and i do powershield most match-ups pretty hardcore with the exception of a few, its one of my mine strategies

 

[-Mars-]

Actually IMO tornado and glide aren't really that big of a deal. Glide is actually pretty bad to use on sheik cause we can punish that crap all day by ftilting him while hes doing it. If he swings it clanks and you get a dsmash. And sheik is IMO one of the best characters in the game at punishing Nado. Its hard for nado to shield poke sheik and we can punish it like everytime with DA. MK's airspeed isn't a big deal.

And IMO kirbys gimp game compared to MK's isn't that far off for one main reason. One of our best options when forced to recover low is to try and use our double jump and speed to get MK to mistime an aerial and make it back onto the stage. However in kirbys case, he can throw out a biar early and then just wait. No timing required if we have to cross paths we get hit. Lasting aerials are a much bigger deal to sheik offstage than most chars.

I don't see how she's one of the best at punishing smart use of Nado. She's just as susceptible as every other character. Unless your playing MK's that just flat out approach with it.

MK should use Nado against Sheik when:


1. Her shield is low. As soon as you see that Sheik has her shield worn down a bit from ftilt or whatever other poke he's using, he can just rapidly press b.

2. When he's below her. Sheik can only bair through it if she hits the middle so it isn't hard for a MK to just position the tornado so he hits Sheik with the outer edges of the move.

3. She's on the edge. She literally has nothing she can do in this situation.

I agree she's good at punishing it when her shield is completely full. But honestly MK's should be better than that by now.

If she had something like DS or Shuttle Loop then yea but she doesn't.

I don't know why on earth you would think Kirby is as bad as MK for us offstage. MK can bait your airdodge and Shuttle Loop you at like 60 and if your DJ is gone your like dead lol. His nair is multihit as well, so he can throw that out there similar to Kirby bair.

And kirby hitting you with bair does what? You just DI it up and your good to go.

 

[Renki]

Mars and Light pretty much have covered everything I wanted to say in regards to the Kirby MU.

- Bair is annoying, but is trying to beat it really the concern? Powershielding it is fairly easy (I do it as well.)

- Kirby's ground game isn't terrible, but it doesn't outright beat ours either. D-tilt really isn't anything amazing, lol.

- Grab combos from Kirby hurt, but I don't think it's anything worse than Peach's or Falco's CG crap on us. I treat it as about the same.

As you said, you may just have a mental block against Kirby, Judo. I think everyone has them at certain points in time. I still have a slight one against peach, but I'm gradually getting rid of it. I'm actually -almost- beating Kyon in matches now instead of getting my face ran into the ground, lmao. Kirby's not that bad for us. I can't see it any worse than a 40:60, and that's 'really' pushing it imo.

I've played Chu, and as Light said, patience does wonders in the matchup.

 

[clowsui]

6:4 in a 2/3
65:35 in a 3/5

you have way less CPs than kirby

 

[KenniSpam!]

i think you guys are forgetting that standing vanish ***** kirby hard

@kirby's grab combos-you can jump out of dthow at any % as long as its not stale and throw->uair only works once. what up

 

[phi1ny3]

haha yeah I've used vanish a couple of times when I read a ff bair or fsmash, it's lulzy.

 

[Judo777]

Alrighty well I'm done arguing. Let me know when any sheiks beat Chu or YbM.

 

[iLight]

k get me a ticket to fly up to MD/VA from dallas and i'll play him in a few MM's he's cool i miss him and that crew

 

[KenniSpam!]

ill beat triple r next time i see him if that counts for anything ;O

 

[choknater]

norcal i dont have to worry about good kirbies players

 

[Renki]

Upon talking on the phone to a drunken Ed, he had this to say about the Kirby MU:

"Kirby is a ****ing pink piece of **** that wears ****ing pink slippers. He sucks, and he's not that bad."



....Lol.

 

[<π]

TKD thinks a lot like I do.

 

[Tewx2]

Kenni/Judo are either of you guys planning on coming to Good **** Stratford?

 

[choknater]

lmao nice tournament name

 

[KenniSpam!]

Kenni/Judo are either of you guys planning on coming to Good **** Stratford?

where is it

 

[choknater]

where it AT? 8)

 

[-Mars-]

Alrighty well I'm done arguing. Let me know when any sheiks beat Chu or YbM.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Shugo or DEHF.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Razer or Fatal.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat any good Wario's.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat MikeHaze or Kadaj.


That doesn't make any sense. Since nobody has done much of anything with Sheik since...like....forever......all of our matchups must be bad.

 

[iLight]

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Shugo or DEHF.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Razer or Fatal.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat any good Wario's.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat MikeHaze or Kadaj.


That doesn't make any sense. Since nobody has done much of anything with Sheik since...like....forever......all of our matchups must be bad.

Razer is ****ing hard as **** to beat, but i came really close the last time I played him in toruney on FD, Warrio's are hard if they know the match up, MikeHaze is super fun to play against, don't think i've ever played him in anything other than friendlies, and I've never played DEHF or Shugo, and when any sheik main beats Espy or X let me know, because espy is hard as **** to beat with sheik

 

[-Mars-]

I played MikeHaze in some friendlies before. He sandbagged me so hard lol. I like that guy though.


X imma get eventually. Took him to game 3 in a best out of 3 last week.

 

[Judo777]

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Shugo or DEHF.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat Razer or Fatal.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat any good Wario's.

Lemme know when any Sheiks beat MikeHaze or Kadaj.


That doesn't make any sense. Since nobody has done much of anything with Sheik since...like....forever......all of our matchups must be bad.

I have come so close to beating Krystedez everytime I have played him so I will definitely let you know. I always win game 1 and EVERY game is last hit. I also did lose one entire set because i tripped going for GR Usmash.

And unlike everyone else you named in that list I don't personally believe YbM (not sure about Chu since i have never played him) doesn't have a significant skill gap between me and them. I have consistently beat his zss (by a considerable margin,who is his co-main).

But again I am done arguing.

 

[KenniSpam!]

i can take games off hungers wario, allys snake, and artys falco with sheik ;I

nosetyettho

arty is seriously dumb though i shouldve beaten him like the last 2 or 3 times i played him but i got bs'd somehow every time

-kennispam's johns are legit, yo

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I've almost beaten so many people I've lost track and won't try to remember anymore. It's just time to start wracking up Ws.

 

[Tewx2]

GSS is in Michigan

Also idk if this counts but I beat Judge's wario in tournament, won game one on BF, lost game 2 on cruise, then game 3 he went Lucario and I lost the set...

 

[#HBC | Scary]

It's another one of those almost wins. We certainly gotta make sone more noise.

I need a job to get the money to start hitting more tourneys again. I'm limited to almost 1 a month.