Active Player Thread: Ones who does not have Triforce can't go in

[Tewx2]

Recently I've been feeling like Sheik is a bad character.

 

[Renki]

^ You too, eh? I've kind of accepted it, and have learned to deal with it.

But yeah, I think Sheik should be at the bottom of mid-tier now, lmao.

 

[Tewx2]

O I'm not the only one? It's weird cause she was so good in 2009.

 

[choknater]

why do u think that tew

 

[KenniSpam!]

Remember when I said Sheik was bad and I got laughed at+infracted?

 

[Tewx2]

I I don't see how Sheik has a chance of beating certain characters, like Metaknight and ICs, and Marth(but that's just me). Maybe I'm just terrabad at the match up but it just seems impossible, and if you, or your character is bad vs MK then there is no point in even playing competitively since hes the most commonly used character in the game.

The ICs MU is stupid, however it seems like90% of the people who use ICs are also stupid so the practical MU isn't all that bad. But yeah, I give up on beating Lain with Sheik.

 

[choknater]

u probably said it in a way that was infractable

but yeah mk and marth idk

ic's ive always used zelda! :D

 

[KenniSpam!]

I I don't see how Sheik has a chance of beating certain characters, like Metaknight and ICs, and Marth(but that's just me). Maybe I'm just terrabad at the match up but it just seems impossible, and if you, or your character is bad vs MK then there is no point in even playing competitively since hes the most commonly used character in the game.

The ICs MU is stupid, however it seems like90% of the people who use ICs are also stupid so the practical MU isn't all that bad. But yeah, I give up on beating Lain with Sheik.

ic's are sheiks worst mu imo, but on certain stages its doable.

mk isnt that bad really, just dont get hit ;O

marth is gay lol

 

[Tewx2]

ICs are only doable on stages like rainbow cruise, where ur gonna play their pocket MK anyway.

 

[KenniSpam!]

then you gotta bust out that pocket ganon

 

[-Mars-]

Sheik is already at the bottom of mid-tier. She's not bad, but she does require you to play at an extremely high level at all times. She's not a character where you can go into cruise control. If people can do it with Sonic....then we can do it with Sheik. We all just suck pretty bad at this game tbh.

Marth unwinnable? I would doubt you could find a single Marth main that would say the matchup is unwinnable for Sheik.

MK is hard, but doable because you can kill him so early.

Ice Climbers I dunno. Never played a good one. I hear it's bad. That's your fault for living in the midwest lol.

 

[choknater]

i play at a high level at all times : )

jk

gotta throw in mixups against chars like ddd, when i go into autopilot i get tapped

 

[TKD]

Keep an open mind and learn, people. Think up, observe and stuff. You're mobile, have a good moveset, and more...is it the character's fault that not one good Sheik player has popped up? Nope! It's yours. And the BBR doesn't vote for Sheik in the tier lists for the same reason. Their smash theory isn't very much ahead; they just know what they see at nationals, which doesn't include a good Sheik.

 

[choknater]

tkd *****

 

[Renki]

L> Vids of TKD playing Sheik...wait a sec, wth is TKD doing here w/ a Sheik icon?

Confused.

Saying none of us do work or try or are even good is kind of degrading. We aren't amazing, or national level, yeah, but we're at least putting forth an effort. There are certain things that can't be helped, like character and mental/physical limitations for example. Having low aerial horizontal mobility and getting gimped at ******** %'s can't be helped, lmao.

@ Mars: I mean...bottom..bottom...below Ness. Marth is pretty stupid, and it doesn't help that we don't have a CP that we actually -win- against him on. IIRC, he does well on all the stages that are good for us. Also, CG shenanigans on Sheik are pretty dumb. :I

@ TKD: The BBR is set in their ways. Do good at a national, they don't buy it. Do good at 3 more, maybe one does, but the rest don't. At a certain point, I think majority of us just stopped caring, lmao.

Also, ICs are dumb. Zelda's slow as molasses, but has a more effective moveset for ICs. Sheik's ground mobility is awesome, but can't properly zone ICs. Pick your poison, lmao.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah I was talking to TKD just the other day about Sheik's potential. He admitted he hasn't seen a lot of sheik placements coming around and couldn't make an accurate call on observation alone, but thinks she's got some higher places to be on the tiers and in terms of overall viability. She's got very un-ignorable strengths belied by some tough weaknesses waiting to get cracked, but similar to Marth/Peach, is a very hard character to maintain effectively at a high level.

counters are hurtful, but luckily w/ the duo of Zelda + Sheik, you only really suffer that problem from Olimar (and maybe MK to some of you).

 

[Renki]

I actually think Olimar is one of Sheik's better matchups in the higher tiers, lol. He's around the same as MK to me, except Olimar actually dies reasonably.

 

[KenniSpam!]

i can understand your reasoning behind the oli mu, but hes still a little homo lol

@tkd-sheik is a bad character

 

[Judo777]

Oli MU isn't that bad. Its actually not too far from even. Slight advantage for olimar. And Marth isn't bad either. Sheik does very well against marth. Marth has to keep us at 1 set distance the whole game and we can play at any of the others and beat him. Also we can ACTUALLY gimp marth unlike MK.

Kirby is Sheldas worst MU. Sheik nor Zelda cover him well. (I suppose MK and Lucario MIGHT be tied for that however that is simply because Zelda does a little better on kirby. If your a sheik primary and zelda secondary player then yea kirby is the worst)

 

[sheikamaru]

as long as we're all learning right? i mean.. i would totally go to high lvl tourneys and what not but i don't have the cash to do so >.> so i'm pretty much stuck at tourneys around wherever i am. i know they have a whobo coming up in houston but i haven't even bought tix yet so... i'm not looking forward to that atm.. unless something awesome happens then maybe.

i myself still have trouble w/ marth. whenever the match starts i end up on the edge b/c of my lame mentality of getting that tipper hit after the back throw or forward throw. i lost to broly in the recent tourney i went to.

i haven't faced a legit ic yet. and i see the grabs on other people. i still say good spacing and separating the icys should be our best tool against them. and what's the big deal w/ oli anyway?

and tew you shouldn't give up on her man! if anything try incorperating zelda into your gameplay for killing at least. leave mk for the dacus kill. there's this one vid of ankoku i watched the other day of him fighting a lucario and he'd turn into zelda to kill him b/c killing lucario w/ sheik is hard..

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I've been saying Sheik has had potential forever! What's with all this sudden negativity????

Marth is not hard at all. He can bore you to death but if he tries to aggro with you, it lights out, nappy time! Dead serious. Judo is right on Kirby being the duo's toughest MU and it really isn't all that bad. ICs fall in there as well simply because it takes a whole different kind of patience with Zelda or Sheik. MK, he's definitely doable. We just have to get these placings up to get noticed. We lose in theory brawl because no one cares to know Sheik or Sheik/Zelda. Time to just step it up.

 

[clowsui]

you guys should just ask neo for replays vs marth or something

his sheik 3 stocks marths on the regular

 

[choknater]

clowsui great avatar

just gotta be patient and keep marth out/off stage!

 

[phi1ny3]

Cool, good to know we do awesome against Olimar too.

Yeah Kirby seems tricky for both...

 

[TKD]

You can juggle Kirby well though. Sheik has a quick aerial upwards and to each of her sides, and Kirby falls slow and has smaller aerials. You can jump up a bit and react to an early air-dodge or aerial easily and counter or punish. Kirby's dair is slow and has warning on start-up anyway. Also you can likely powerblock his falling bair and shield-grab him like most chars.
The problem vs Kirby is his grab range, and he can shieldgrab any of your falling aerials when you're juggled, but if you don't aerial and just move away, the opponent will end up stuck in his shield and miss his opportunity if he was expecting to react to an action of yours. This is a basic defensive principle in Brawl now, but I tell you because I learned it late.

I remember being told that King Dedede and Marth are your worst match-ups by my Brawl go-to guy one or two years ago.

Oh and about the icon, I main Sheik in Melee.
I'm kind of jealous of you Sheik mains, as I like her a lot but am set with Fox (and I think playing Sheik would mess up my ssbm)

 

[KenniSpam!]

LOLWTF kirby is easy ****

 

[clowsui]

thanks chok

also TKD it's not possible to powerblock falling bair and shield grab, judo has tried many times to no avail. i've seen him try all different timings too. furthermore even if you get it, it's still a mix up game because if kirby changes the timing on his back air and baits a shield grab that way he has positional advantage or a free fsmash if he gets a hard enough read.

while it's semi-easy to juggle kirby, the risk reward for missing is terrible whereas kirby doesn't have quite as hard of a time when he misses

 

[choknater]

needles all day all matchups

dont shield grab kirbys bair if he spaces it. needle out of shield

 

[Renki]

I agree. Kirby's easy imo. Not sure why he'd be considered hard when his range and mobility are...well, bad. Being put in the position where he's an actual threat is already doing something wrong.

 

[choknater]

he can fight us if he absorbs our needles

 

[Renki]

If he's that close, something's still wrong. :I

 

[clowsui]

come back when you've played y.b.m. or chudat, that **** is ****ing gay >__<

 

[Renki]

I have played Chudat though, lol.

Personally, I made a lot of mistakes back then. I know he's gotten better since then, as have I. I never felt overwhelmed tbh. I just made really poor choices, and actually approached, lmao.

 

[TKD]

Sheik REALLY can't shield-grab Kirby's bair? I do it as Fox...but then again Fox slides. And clow you're thinking too far ahead. If you don't powerblock, you obviously won't attempt the shield-grab because of shield-stun and pushback. As others say you either keep your position or needle.

Yeah Kirby's gay, you can't afford to sandbag against him. But he's not a great char so your pocket MK can probably do it. Mine does. Even pocket IC or Olimar do, or a secondary Snake or DDD. A lot of chars are tough for him

 

[Asdioh]

needles all day all matchups

dont shield grab kirbys bair if he spaces it. needle out of shield

Chok is smart. I also think Victra called him a cutie in that one video.

Judo, I'm still not convinced Kirby destroys Sheik as badly as you think. Sure, the only serious Sheik I've played was you in a single friendly many many months ago, but still! Sheik seems like a decent enough character and you need to stop being afraid of Kirby's Bair. By the way, Kirby players (like myself) enjoy spacing Bairs against your shield, and when we land and you try to grab us (and whiff, which you often do) we punish with Fsmash. That simple trick is the reason so many people fear Kirby's Fsmash and Bair.

Of course, this is 2011 so I didn't need to tell you any of that. I mostly just came to say TKD had a nice ~The Callout~ hehe

I also noticed the "complain about Meta Knight" part and wonder how bad you really have it against MK. Better than Kirby, imo. But maybe not as good as Fox (just talking about the two characters I play)

 

[Zankoku]

The "complain about Meta Knight" part is an inside joke from the BBR, for Judo.

 

[Judo777]

Kirby really does destroy sheik guys. Unless we space it just right his bair beats our uair..... thats kinda pathetic. He gets free tilts from throws and the risk reward factor on kirby is ridiculous for sheik. But that's not the main reason kirby is good. The main reason kirby is good is because he can move and fight in diagnols. Wheres as sheik has to move horizontally and vertically quickly. So our only option to punish kirbys floating bair garbage is to run underneath him and try to uair, but by the time we do that he no longer has to commit. I have played 3 good kirbys (2 of them are really good) and I am quite confident i understand the MU. I might have a slight block but i know its bad.

I have played YBM sooo many times. I have also played a great player in our region named joey who used to main kirby. The problem with kirby is he has all of the significant traits MK has on us, and doesn't have most all of MK's weakness' against us. Kirby still outprioritizes our whole moveset, he still has about the same airspeed (its not significant comparatively), he is slower on the ground but that is not a huge factor of the MK MU. He still gimps us. But now he also has a few more things. 1 KILL power!. 2 We lose 40% ftilt locks. 3 We lose kill setups at 90 with grabs. 4 needles are even less effective.

 

[choknater]

what does kirby do vs running away and needling

 

[Judo777]

what does kirby do vs running away and needling

Duck and or jump a little bit closer. Eventually you will run out of stage.

 

[iLight]

kirby's f-smash and small height are things to fear, but if he ever goes into the air you have the advantage as long as you don't jump in blindly, and yet if he stays completely grounded you have the advantage too b/c needles hit him even if he is crouched and as long as you don't try to aerial him while he just stand there and or he is crouched, its about the same as any other character as far as gaining the advantage on the ground