Also Bengals, maybe you should read the old Toon Link topic? You seem to be rushing in here with a hot head and naivity under your belt without thinking that perhaps everything you've said has already been said?
Toon Link can't reliably brickwall Marth with his projectiles, and his zair while being longer in range than Marth is useless once Marth is inside. A smart Marth won't let himself get punished by a missed attack on a shield, once we're inside your zair range TL does not have the ability to 'shield grab' a well spaced Marth. Marth naturally continues to push TL further and further towards an edge/corner and then where else can he go? he's dominated.
And saying something like "Down smash under 20% will most likely kill Marth" is so stupid it hurts. Anyone who doesn't know about that is just an idiot, and if you only play idiots or you are the idiot yourself falling for that you don't have place to argue. Match Up knowledge is key here, situational and easy to avoid strategies and occurances ARE NOT.
"Oh Ganondorf has 50:50 match up with MK coz if MK is above 20% and near an edge and Ganondorf hits him with a Wizard Punch he is 100% dead, for sure, MK definitely has nothing that helps to avoid this and it definitely isn't the most easy to see situation in the world".
Bengalz, I used to think the match up between the two was even, I even argued my reasonings, and I was argued back and I conceded that it was so. At least I didn't try to argue things like his downsmash at the edge and a fthrow resets the situation completely. You want to know a move that actually does reset situations? Falco/Fox's Side B, TL does not have such a move.
A hot head? I haven't shown any signs of anger, nor have I tried to force my opinion. You however have come off to me as very rude, as you basically just dismissed me as an idiot and blatantly attacked my intelligence.
Regardless, I'll try and ignore your attacks on me this time and simply reply to the ideas you stated:
TL's arrows are less effective against Marths, but he won't be relying too much on them. He will camp you with boomerang and bombs, and will only use arrow cancel after a pulling out a bomb, throwing a bomb, or an aerial. Or he sees an opening.
You say that TL's zair is useless when Marth gets inside. The problem is getting inside. You could also say that ALL of Marth's attacks are useless as long TL is camping or as long as TL has him at bay with his zair. If you're going to make that kind of argument you have to be fair. Now if Marth does get by, TL isn't a sitting duck, this is mainly because he can shield grab most of your offensive options as I explained earlier. Also if he has a bomb he can do a lot with it out of shield. TL, unlike Marth has options from the ledge, and can retreat back safely if necessary, so thats not necessarily a bad thing.
Now lets take a look at the dsmash kills I brought up. I simply noted it, I never said it breaks this matchup or even took it into heavy regard. But since you seem to find it so hilarious, let me explain why even a good Marth may fall into it. Unlike the warlock punch which you so sarcastically brought up, TL's dsmash is fast, very fast. I believe the hitbox comes up even faster than his usmash. Now Marth may have the tools to avoid this, but you can't space perfectly 100% of the time, and if your spacing happens to **** up at the wrong time, you could be in for an early death. Lets go over some scenarios here in which you may eat an early dsmash:
-Failed Dolphin Slash attempt, it happens, again nobody is perfect, when you mess up a dolphin slash, you are helpless. TL can simply get in position and dsmash, and you are most likely dead.
-Poorly spaced fair, if this happens he is within range, though you'd have to make another mistake in order for him to be able to dsmash you in most scenarios.
-Grab release, TL doesn't have a special grab release, but as with most other characters, it's a complete guessing game TL releases you from his grab. I don't think I need to go over any more specifics for this situation, as pretty much anything can happen.
And I explained earlier why Marth can actually be shield grabbed quite frequently, I can go over that again if you'd like. And a fthrow past probably 45% does reset the situation. Fthrow>SH back>Pull out bomb>Boomerang/Arrow. Now he has a bomb in hand and he has room to work with, this is the most comfortbale situation for TL, period.
