A new home skin for Smashboards

[Yikarur]

Overswarm too good <3

 

[Overswarm]

I thought the "!" is fine. Is there a legend for it though? There are a tad too many different variations to them; I don't know which one means which.

No legend is necessary; they just need to add alt text. That's pretty standard everywhere. Make a post, then hover over any of the buttons. Ta-da, instant legend-as-you-go.

Great post Overswarm. It taught me alot about web design. Your tone is a little condescending but your ideas are very well thought out and specific.

My tone is deliberate. I don't waste time with people that refuse to learn anything unless you handle their self esteem like glass.

/waits for haterade.

Don't worry, I'm a lightning rod.

 

[MK26]

Food for thought: every single one of us got our start on SWF with Revolution, whether we eventually switched off of it or not. Why get rid of something that so many are so used to?

 

[Pierce7d]

Good **** Overswarm

 

[_milktea]

Don't worry, I'm a lightning rod.

Nice. Catch it all for me. Also web designers fo lyfe <3.

 

[Pierce7d]

Designers are so cool. I'm gonna study some design basics later.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

Who needs to study when OS and milktea are giving lessons for free

also,

You know what is going to scream at me every time I open my User CP no matter what? Those red exclamation points. They are angry, they are loud, and I am NOT inviting them to my birthday party.

sigged

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Overswarm2gud. As usual.

 

[Cort]

I agree @Milktea. So many things just look completely out of place now D:

But I guess I'll get used to it >>

 

[Overswarm]

Nice. Catch it all for me. Also web designers fo lyfe <3.

That's not even my main job. I just have to do it every once in a while and it overlaps with my main job (creating tutorials for tech).

Designers are so cool. I'm gonna study some design basics later.

Design is easy to do a good job. Very difficult to do a "perfect" job on (getting the spacing right, getting the font right, getting the colors right, on and on to the tiniest detail) and it can be daunting to learn everything you need to do work from scratch, but you can do something good as long as you remember a few key principles:

1) Everyone hates what you do, so do less

As long as you remember this, 90% of web design is finished for you.

"Hey, wouldn't it be cool if-"

No. No it wouldn't. You aren't clever, you aren't smart, and people don't want to put up with your bull****.

That's how you turn this into this.

2) You don't know best and old is safer than new

"Hey, if we want people to use this information but don't want it in their face all the time, why don't we put it on the right side of the page? People don't normally look there and it's not used for browsing often, so this way it'll be out of the way!"

This makes sense when you sound it out, until you realize it's ugly and people don't like it. Yes, it would have made sense as a standard years ago assuming people had the info we have now, but now every website under the sun has a margin of a few inches in the upper left going straight down creating the golden ratio with navigation below and generally a logo or more navigation touching the bottom right side.

People ignore that info unless they need it (see #3), and people are used to that. Switching it up because it "seems better" generally isn't a good idea. It'd take a lot of testing and the moment you say "it'll grow on them", you've basically just said "I know best" for thousands of people.

3) People browse, not read. No one reads anymore.

People like their information and they like it fast. If you type a google search and the information you didn't want didn't show up in the first 6 or 7 links, what do you do? Do you click to page two? Nope. You type in a new search bar, because **** reading. You'd rather just research and have new bits of information appear for you.

People will skip over things that are in commonly skipped over locations. Top? Skipped. Left? Skipped. Middle starting in top left, touching the bottom right of the golden rectangle? That's where your eyes start on EVERY WEBSITE EVER. You ever look at google's website? Like, REALLY look at it? It isn't centered. Go ahead, use a ruler. It's not the same. They shift it to the left because that's where you look first, and it's more aesthetically pleasing than simply being centered.

It's all about getting as much information to the user as quickly as possible. The user is a man screaming about how he wants a wheelbarrow, an elephant, and a peanut butter sandwich and you have to give them to them all at once. You arrange this the best you can and the entire time you just KNOW he's going to ask for a cheetah and a game show host from the 70's five seconds after you bring him all this stuff... but God forbid if you bring that cheetah and game show host five seconds earlier. That guy will fire you faster than an earthworm in a rocketship.

So, those three.

Do less, you don't know best, people don't like to read.

Congratulations, you're now more qualified than like 90% of people with CS degrees when it comes to designing web pages, you just need the applicable skills.

 

[_milktea]

You forgot one of the most important. Don't do **** unless it's for a reason.

 

[Overswarm]

Oh, and your changing the background from black / dark grey to lighter shades of gray? You need to fix virtually every non-custom avatar in your forum, most of them are now in block shape rather than naturally stemming from the default.

You forgot one of the most important. Don't do **** unless it's for a reason.

I figured that was covered in #1 and #2 :B

"Do less" and "you don't know best"

 

[Ryuker]

Ta daaaaa.

Now they aren't in your ****ing way all the time while you're trying to read actual content that you came for. I didn't even fix the background for the images, just rip, resize, and greyscale. They're not the right shades of grey and are on a block color background that doesn't synch with the header and they're still superior.

The contrast and size of those buttons looks better. But I have mixed feeling about the usability of them. For small posts they would work. For longer posts they'd force me to scroll back before I can quote. Depends on what is more used I guess.

 

[Overswarm]

The contrast and size of those buttons looks better. But I have mixed feeling about the usability of them. For small posts they would work. For longer posts they'd force me to scroll back before I can quote. Depends on what is more used I guess.

Generally quote buttons are placed at the bottom of a post for usability purposes. Some forums have a multi-quote button at the top and bottom of posts and highlight them when selected to get the "best of both worlds" as well.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

OS the lines you randomly painted over those images of the new theme make no sense, you're so obviously trying to hard. That's not even where you would place them if you knew what you were doing. You're just trying sooo hard to come off as super knowledgeable about this subject.

"LOOK, I put red lines, which mean BAD, on this image!! This means that I know what I am talking about and that this is BAD! Just look at all those red lines! BAD BAD BAD! Now, you'll notice that on this other image, I put BLUE lines! This means good-- see how this image has all blue lines and this one has all red lines? This means one is good and one is bad!!"

Golly, I'm so convinced that you are knowledgeable on this subject!


Go make a mockup for your own skin and send it in, please.

Show us how awesome you are. The worst thing that could happen is that you actually do something productive (gasp!) and the community gets another good skin. That would be AWESOME and would make everyone happy! I would really love that. But... I'm pretty sure you're "just a kid with a computer" with too much time on your hands trying to look cool on the internet.




The article you linked on contrast is typical. You can see plenty of those elements in this design...

Why would you want your eyes to be naturally drawn to the banner? Hrmn, I dunno... ... ... maybe because that's the entire purpose of a banner? Oh right, that's it. But just for safe measure, maybe I should take some screen shots and draw random red lines all over them so I can seem more convincing.

Post buttons at the top of the post is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. You would have to scroll back UP to use the buttons. Great suggestion, Mr. infinite web design wisdom.

This isn't colorful? Is there something wrong with your eyes? The only thing about this that dilutes the color in any way is that it's lit with a setting sun effect. The rest of the game is lit normally and the colors are even more emphasized...


"I shrunk my browser window down to 300px horizontally and NOTHING FITS, WTF?!?!?!"

Seriously?

Saying that "most people don't browse in full screen anymore" is absurd. That is absolutely not the case. For the people who DON'T browse in full screen (it's certainly not uncommon), the site scales perfectly down to around 1,000px horizontally. If someone is browsing the internet in a Window much smaller than that, you're going to run into trouble on just about any website... some sites are still designed for 800px, which is fine too, but that's getting less and less common.



The Notices box is something that's part of VBulletin / other people implemented that I have nothing to do with. It's not the same as the Site Announcements though.


Oh and since you're accusing me of "not reading anything" (I wonder why I wouldn't enjoy every delicious inch of your post? hrrrmnnnn...), you should probably READ the original post where it indicates that the Site Announcements swap over to Live Streams when there is a Live Stream on. Actually, it's doing that RIGHT NOW since there's a Live Stream on today. The Site Announcements section is just there to make sure that there's always something displayed, rather than wasting space.

The sidebar and featured box fit perfectly... I don't know what else to say. Once again your random red lines aren't even where they should be if you were attempting to outline the layout... they are meaningless...

You have a problem with the new post icons having color too? Okay, you just hate things that stand out. The entire point of a new post notification is to NOTIFY YOU that there is a new post. You know, catch your eye? Hence the contrast. You might have read about contrast in that super awesome and informative contrast 101 article that you linked me. It's a pretty cool concept.

 

[Deleted member]

stop editing while I'm reading damnit

the half screen feature of win7 makes your browser <1000px wide even on a 1080P monitor FYI

and actually his lines (the vertical ones at least) were pretty accurate.

and you know what? I'm actually going to fix this stupid skin now because you utterly refuse to listen to anything.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

I've already made several adjustments based on user input. OS isn't making real suggestions. He's just causing a ruckus.

 

[Deleted member]

it's still giant buttons and glowing fonts everywhere.
seriously how have you not fixed the info page yet

 

[MetalMusicMan]

it's still giant buttons and glowing fonts everywhere.
seriously how have you not fixed the info page yet

A) not the biggest priority. B) it takes a really long time to make changes because anything that is in a CSS file has to be uploaded, which we don't have direct access to. Like seriously it takes days to get someone with server access to upload things. We only have quicker access because Bionic happens to be able to use another method, but then I'm dependent on when he's available.

Plus... I have a job and stuff, that takes up a little of my time, you know?

 

[Deleted member]

really? Bio set up a direct editing line for me (a regular member) in like an hour, for orange fever.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

really? Bio set up a direct editing line for me (a regular member) in like an hour, for orange fever.

There was one of those but it got taken down at launch, I haven't regained access to it yet.

 

[Deleted member]

that's because bio removed it completely (otherwise the CSS sheet would be a link and not the actual sheet). did you guys really think the skin was perfect at launch?

 

[MetalMusicMan]

that's because bio removed it completely (otherwise the CSS sheet would be a link and not the actual sheet). did you guys really think the skin was perfect at launch?

What? Why would I think it was perfect at launch? I would prefer to always have access to it because there are always little tweaks that need to be made at times. I don't know why it's not available right now but I've already asked for it to be put back, it just depends on when he's available.

One of the huge challenges with making the site was that I basically had to do it all on my own personal web space because of limited (or no) access to the Smashboards web space. Then once everything was done and Bio finally got access working we could migrate everything. But I still don't have timely access to file uploads and I probably never will. That's really fine as long as things get done, but since you asked why things take so long I thought I'd explain the situation to you.

 

[B0NK]

I've already made several adjustments based on user input. OS isn't making real suggestions. He's just causing a ruckus.

lol @ calling constructive criticism a ruckus

He also made suggestions throughout his posts, but instead you called him blind >_>

I also agree with milktea, and probably anyone else that is making a rational argument for why the skin needs fixing in it's basic design and color scheme.

 

[shanus]

MMM, in OS' defense, the buttons on top was an idea I posted, but in hindsight it does lose functionality on wall o' texts. I wish there was a solution to both, as so many short posts take up huge space due to large avatars and these buttons.

Edit: Is there a mode to limit avatar size for other users?

 

[Deleted member]

shanus there's a stylish line for it

 

[Krystedez]

I forgot to mention this but... character icons for the character boards was the most awesome !@#$ about this site and it was taken down.

why-eh?

 

[MetalMusicMan]

MMM, in OS' defense, the buttons on top was an idea I posted, but in hindsight it does lose functionality on wall o' texts. I wish there was a solution to both, as so many short posts take up huge space due to large avatars and these buttons.

And I have no problem with any of your posts or suggestions.

It should be very obvious that OS's approach and tone are unacceptable, he's just troll-bating and I really don't know why he's allowed to get away with it to the extent that he does.

His "suggestions" are either just a different school of thought or flat out inapplicable to the situation. If he were just making such suggestions, I could disagree civilly. I'm not going take endless post after endless post of that nonsense, especially considering how little real value there actually is in any of his "suggestions". It's all logical fallacies or pseudo information like his random red lines that have nothing to do with anything and aren't even applied correctly in the first place.



There's still work to be done, as JV said there always will be. That's the plan. That plan will include changes / modifications and alternate versions of this theme (which a lot of people do REALLY LIKE), as well as entirely different themes hopefully in the future.

One step at a time though.

I forgot to mention this but... character icons for the character boards was the most awesome !@#$ about this site and it was taken down.

why-eh?

I'm actually not sure what you're talking about-- was this in Revo? I don't remember it being there...

 

[Purple]

I never saw these icons

 

[Zajice]

OS's posts have good suggestions in them even if he does go about it in a rather obnoxious way. You shouldn't simply disregard them.

Bright buttons and glowy everywhere aren't good.

 

[Krystedez]

Maybe I'm thinkin of AiB... my bad! :D

You should put them in though . . . that'd be tight.

 

[Deleted member]

MMM, here's what OS means with those "random" lines.

this is the current look:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/paprika_killer/Naamloos-37.png

this is with consistent horizontal spacing:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/paprika_killer/Naamloos-38.png

 

[Daddy Ash]

Well mixed response to this new skin, at first when I loaded up the SWF site I thought I'd typo'd the address like I did with the Friday skin. My main issue with this skin is the repulsive banner and the massive '!' icons along with the traffic light buttons.
The banner just seems to stick out and doesn't belong on the rest of the skin, I understand the attempt of contrast but I think there is TOO much contrast, the Revolution skin was much subtler and doesn't distract your eyes from the forum topics like the new banner does.
The '!' icons and buttons just seem so out of place also, they look far too big and colourful for the background of the skin.
Another slight issue I have is with the right hand side of forum, such prominent advertising of forum areas 90-95% of the site's visitors will never access, just seems to drag the skin too far right and makes the entire thing look stretched.
I guess my poor eyes would eventually get used to the new skin but the sooner you bring back an option to switch back to Revolution the better.
Now for the positives, everything else is pretty much perfect, if you tweaked the '!' icons and buttons and made them greyscale and about 3/4 there current sizes. Then if you scrapped the banner and started it again, with a darker but still contrasted colour scheme it would bring the whole site back together and make it look like it 'belonged' for lack of a better word.
Then maybe, just maybe, the prominent advertising of the back rooms would seem to stretch the skin less and make it all look contained like it was with Revolution and maybe just save the appearance of a forum that didn't need such dramatic, contrasted alterations to begin with.

 

[Zankoku]

Go make a mockup for your own skin and send it in, please.

Okay, for the record, if you're serious about that... wow.

But since I did request to be able to make a new skin for this as an actual replacement to the now-unavailable Revolution, and since I just happen to actually have webspace that supports PHP/SQL, I suppose I actually can do that. But I've told OS this when he basically said the same thing about Smash circuits - don't try to scare people away with "let's see YOU do it better!", 'cause I most certainly am willing to try if given the chance.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

MMM, from what little bit of web design I got with graphics design: OS is making a whole lot of sense. Those lines are the columns/rows/ect that are naturally made by the current web site in paths that our eyes follow. Right now, you got too many with some of them adjustable by simply widening or narrowing a few things, assuming I'm narrowing it down enough/simplifying it enough without changing what OS was trying to say.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

OS's posts have good suggestions in them even if he does go about it in a rather obnoxious way. You shouldn't simply disregard them.

Bright buttons and glowy everywhere aren't good.

There's really nothing inherently wrong with any of those things, but any of his "good suggestions" have actually been brought up in a civil manner by others long before him, and then addressed or explained already.

MMM, here's what OS means with those "random" lines.

this is the current look:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/paprika_killer/Naamloos-37.png

this is with consistent horizontal spacing:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg258/paprika_killer/Naamloos-38.png

Right. He likes minimalistic grid-based layouts. That's fine, but that's an OPINION. There is nothing wrong with a layout that doesn't perfectly match a grid, that's one of the best things about the entire internet moving way from tables and onto Divs.

A lot of people very much prefer a layout that doesn't adhere to a strict tabular design. For people who DO prefer a tabular design (which is less and less these days, but still a very relevant portion of users), the answer is not to "fix Vibrant". It was not intended to be a strictly tabular design. The best answer is to make an alternate skin, or use one of the many existing alternate skins that adhere strictly to a grid.

Okay, for the record, if you're serious about that... wow.

But since I did request to be able to make a new skin for this as an actual replacement to the now-unavailable Revolution, and since I just happen to actually have webspace that supports PHP/SQL, I suppose I actually can do that. But I've told OS this when he basically said the same thing about Smash circuits - don't try to scare people away with "let's see YOU do it better!", 'cause I most certainly am willing to try if given the chance.

I am absolutely not trying to scare anyone away. You can take that literally. I literally would LOVE for him, or someone to do that if they think they can / want to. There seems to be a demand for it. I could do it, but Vibrant takes up enough of my time.

 

[Deleted member]

really? editing in an underline and bold? someone is pissed.

also, what is wrong with grid based layout and what is so good about EVERY element having a different width, other than it being a "trend" (links to popular sites that do this? I know none)

 

[MetalMusicMan]

also, what is wrong with grid based layout and what is so good about EVERY element having a different width, other than it being a "trend" (links to popular sites that do this? I know none)

Nothing is wrong with a grid layout. Nothing is wrong with a freeform layout.

It's an opinion, neither more or less valid than the other. The issue is that Vibrant was never meant to be the kind of design that OS is implying that it "should be", and that he's trying to say that that's "the only valid kind of design". Oh, and that he's posting in a manner that is completely rude and unacceptable.

 

[Deleted member]

I take it you have no links, okay.

also, this is a forum, that means forum sections, vertical aligned posts etc., something that is liek the perfect example of a grib based layout.
let me ask this differently. why (look I can scream too) did you deviate from a tried and true formula for forum design?

 

[stingers]

why are you still complaining about this