We rate character's "ease of use" and ability to pocket or secondary a lot more in Smash4 than other games, and I'm not entirely sure, but maybe most fighting games in general.
The only character that truly feels completely solo worthy is Bayonetta. Cloud is also kinda there, but there is undoubtedly easier alternatives in certain situations than just sticking to him; he has to know how to recover in different match ups, how to deal with the ground game of characters etc etc.
If I was to contrast this notion to Brawl, the early tier lists concentrated on character 'power level' and overtime meta and match up development pushed things in a more understandable direction.
First tier list had Snake as second in the game, and earlier on while not a majority, people still believed he could be no.1 in the game (that completely died after roughly 2 years; blame ally for it lasting longer than a year or so).
Dedede was third (or 4th if my memory is hazy) - his dominant reward from grab against more than 2/3rds of the cast made him insanely strong.
If we were to consider 'power level', then a stage wide cg for a minimum 20-30% into an edge guard ( dedede's was one of the best, I wish D3 still used his feet :sob: ), an up tilt that had invincibility and ko'd under 100% and insane weight was incredibly potent.
We could go on about Snake for a very long time, but being nigh unkillable weight, KOing under 100%, having the highest damage per hit in the game (forward tilt did 21%....), super range, a very difficult to overcome projectile/mechanic (grenades were insane), etc etc etc
Despite them ending up "top of mid tier" (or bottom of high, depending on your stances on stuff) and in the second half of top 10 and respectively, their sheer number and mechanic potency gave them an insane power level that took a really long time for people to see beyond from how they fared overall.
Ability to not get grabbed, ability to handle grenades (having to catch/instant throw them back, etc etc), i.e. 'counterplay' developed and pushed them down on a tier list that reflected tournament trends and popularity.
Meta focus on characters which weren't as phased or could naturally negate their strengths, diminishing their worth as well.
But back to Smash4 - the popularity of characters seems pretty set in stone. Obviously Cloud and Bayonetta are becoming more popular overtime, and this will DEFINITELY impact the game in the medium to long term; actually, it very likely has at a local level for most people competitively active; just the fact the overall best players in the world aren't playing these characters and the discourse of our community being limited by what exists off of streams/videos (HAAAAAAAAAH) stops most people from seeing what will - with little doubt, eventually happen (but I don't think it'll be remotely as bad as what happened in Brawl).
But asides from that, there is truly very little delimiting factors that will consistently road block at higher levels, with fatal or mortally wounding implications on a character's popularity and relevancy. A character's power level matters more than highly nuanced understanding of all of their options and their usages across the spectrum. You didn't need to worry about Snake or Dedede because because chances were MKs would take them out along the way and/or you would have an MK you could use to dispatch them and the match up that determined 80% of your viability otherwise was just the one with MK.
In other words, the opportunity to see a character's strengths shine out are a lot more apparent in Smash4, and how a player deals with their shortfalls matters a lot less in any temporal scenario.
Now all of this just so I can say this one thing.
A tier list that reflects more about a character's maximum (and ease of it), rather than their less understood or exploitable minimums places Lucina a lot closer to Marth than how I would otherwise consider with an 'outdated' paradigm (or we'll come back to it eventually, who knows).
Cloud is obviously the best pick up and play character - we may see more nuanced and skillful play from Diddy players right now, but if you already had a strong character under your belt and wanted a near-pure buff to your repertoire, Cloud is more relevant than Diddy (basically, why would you pick up/learn Diddy if you already played other strong standard picks like Fox, Mario, Sheik, etc).
A character like Bowser or DK is very likely adding more to you than picking up Diddy would too. Rating these two characters towards high tier almost entirely for their maximum seems completely rational to me and personally makes tier lists quite difficult right now (\has been for close to a year as this has been looming in my mind for awhile). The popularity of potential road blocks such as ZSS or Rosa isn't changing despite their heavy increase in relevance -
their minimum, or even their 'average' [match up/etc], doesn't seem to matter.
Marth is a higher depth/more complex character than his counterpart (intentional use of sour and sweet spots makes this an objective statement, pls don't get too uppity about it) - I also still believe he slightly edges Lucina out
on average, whether that be in match ups, pressure, etc (it's an opinion,
CHILL). Mastery of Marth takes more, and *may* have sizable leads over Lucina in some situations (I really don't care for tipper fsmash in my statements fyi). I do not feel the two characters play the same (Marth wants to put you in situations where his moves will auto tipper based on vertical/horizontal positioning, Lucina wants to diminish your options so she can fsmash or bair you freely) in the current meta - a meta where Lucina is a potent pocket, secondary or counterpick character due to her maximum being 'easier' than Marth's may arguably put her higher on a tier list viewed in this way.
Crazy.
I'm still pretty adamant Marth is noticeably better as a sole character (doubt this will change, but who knows), but that doesn't matter in this metagame - you are playing Marth usually because you main him, and those having success with Lucina are using her for predetermined match ups where one doesn't need the additional benefits Marth has; she has disjoint, relative safety and KO power for traps/reads where you likely needed them over your alternative character and that's what tends to matter.
If I were to try to contemplate a tier list that encompasses what I'm saying, there would be two separate groups for each higher tier, and sometimes characters doubling up if necessary. Cloud's top 5 overall (imo), but is currently no.1 as an alternative pick up; Bowser and DK are arguably not 20 'on average' but are likely top 5 as alternative pick ups.
Oh yeah, ZSS
spiel.
Her power level is amazing, top 5, definitely. Anyone who thinks she is still top 5 or better understands her maximum but likely misunderstands the rest.
She isn't designed at a micro level to be easy, or 'actually top 5'. The gutting of her grab duration and the loss of guaranteed reward from grab was truly overkill and highlights the shortfalls (her minimums) a lot more because of it (she lost the only move she had with fantastic 'hitbox' coverage...)
Crazy thing: Zero Suit's back air has a bigger hitbox at max range than diddy's forward air, she can actually beat diddy's fair head on (Diddy's fair has more range though).
That's cool and all and really great, but that's just a single hitbox on her foot. This coolness only matters for 1/4th of her extension, the rest of her body is completely devoid of relevant hitboxes; she has to be near perfect or she'll whiff and lose out.
For example, she has to aim her foot at max range to hit Cloud's foot or head to beat his neutral air (unlike Marth who's arm is vulnerable, the hitbox sizes on Cloud negate one's ability to microspace against it), but if Cloud up airs instead at best she whiffs, but she will likely get hit; most other characters (and top tiers) don't have to deal with this dynamic, they'd still be able to pressure/hitconfirm because they can space to cover that hurtbox shifting (the grab duration nerfed meant her 50/50 from baiting/abusing her mobility for this went from reasonable to be consistent with to nigh improbable against any characters with good aerial acceleration).
Her nair at max range is incredibly small and her legs are completely exposed. ZSS has to commit to actually hit you with this move in neutral OR as a punish and it's completely free to whiff punish or anti air.
Bayo or Cloud SH retreating nairs out of shield and this covers 90% of options in a safe manner, they are not an overt commitment (insanely difficult to beat hitboxes/very favourable animations).
Rage is also hurting her a lot; loss of full jab combo, falling out of fsmash/up-b without any intent whatsoever, etc etc; when she's stuck in this paradigm of 'having to be that much more selective with the way she hits you' but can have her only possible punish option NOT WORK
completely outside of her control is insanely detrimental.
Any time a ZSS plays well, she can look like a top 5 character.
But the stark contrast in intended ease/risk of commitment to Bayo/Cloud, despite having a similar maximum, makes her a liability in solo usage.
If you can con people to not ban town and city through alternative char use for the starter/your opponent's CP, then you have close to two near guaranteed wins (assuming you're even skilled/better) between T+C and BF/DL with her against most of the cast. That's pretty darn good tbh (like, really really good).
Nairo would've bested Void had he not messed up doing just this (holding onto ZSS for T+C counterpick). Problem is, it's hard to transition from characters with hitboxes everywhere to the precision requirements of ZSS on the fly.
Wew what a rant!
