Official 4BR Tier List V3 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Lord Dio]

Why are almost all Zard players seemingly fundamentally inept at using the character? Only Sharpy and Silentdoom seem able to get the character to function by using its strengths to circumvent its many weaknesses. Anti vs Ally was cringeworthy, not only did Anti completely fail to attempt spacing, he also gave up and started spamming flare blitz as if though the match was over when it wasn't, appearing unaware of the comeback potential inherent in characters possessing the jank trinity of heavy weight, rage, and ko power. Perhaps Anti, who favors top tiers and plays them in a rather standard (albeit effective and skillfully executed) fashion is the type of player who focuses on abusing strengths rather than covering weaknesses? You don't so much fish for kills or setups with zard as you stay afloat and let the kills come to you naturally, edgeguarding aside. Anti was trying way to hard to land stuff, and way too little when it came to landing, when it came to the latter he seemed utterly clueless, being as he was, nigh perpetually caught in disadvantage. His ledgetrapping and edgeguarding also sucked total dik.

Are there zards out there that I've missed? Otherwise I really don't get why so many people suck at playing him. There's literally nothing technically demanding about playing him the way Sharpy does, in fact Zard is pretty darn easy to play.

guessing you're talking about DH Montreal?

 

[TDK]

guessing you're talking about DH Montreal?

ANTi went Zard vs Ally at PAX and lost. Although, he might've tried again at DH (If Ally's even there)

 

[Nathan Richardson]

The issue with playing zard is that zard thrives when his opponent makes the first move and zard makes his move afterwards. Almost no other character works like that.
He also, as hippieslayer said, thrives off of surviving and then using his high kb combined with rage to send opponents flying. You can't rush-down opponents with zard and you can't take the fight to opponents with zard you essentially have to wait for the opponent to come to you (which most will have to eventually) and then use zard's kb and rage against them.
Bait them out, cause them to make a mistake, then punish. This is zard's entire game plan but it's weird how some players just don't grasp this.

 

[Nu~]

The issue with playing zard is that zard thrives when his opponent makes the first move and zard makes his move afterwards. Almost no other character works like that.
He also, as hippieslayer said, thrives off of surviving and then using his high kb combined with rage to send opponents flying. You can't rush-down opponents with zard and you can't take the fight to opponents with zard you essentially have to wait for the opponent to come to you (which most will have to eventually) and then use zard's kb and rage against them.
Bait them out, cause them to make a mistake, then punish. This is zard's entire game plan but it's weird how some players just don't grasp this.

That's Ganon's playstyle too, but add in "preying on the opp's fear"

 

[Minordeth]

Since there's no thread, Stroder the Greninja just JV 2'd Nairo and took the set 2-0 in pools. So, uh, Greninja'd.

 

[|RK|]

The issue with playing zard is that zard thrives when his opponent makes the first move and zard makes his move afterwards. Almost no other character works like that.
He also, as hippieslayer said, thrives off of surviving and then using his high kb combined with rage to send opponents flying. You can't rush-down opponents with zard and you can't take the fight to opponents with zard you essentially have to wait for the opponent to come to you (which most will have to eventually) and then use zard's kb and rage against them.
Bait them out, cause them to make a mistake, then punish. This is zard's entire game plan but it's weird how some players just don't grasp this.

A lot of characters work this way, TBH. Sonic, Ryu, even Mario & Luigi to an extent. If you get the opponent to press buttons when they shouldn't, you're better off. That's why good movement is also so important.

 

[Y2Kay]

STRODER AGGGGHH

 

[Minordeth]

Played the anti air threat game really well. And those shurikens were on point. You can't really sleep on the most mobile character in the game.

 

[Hippieslayer]

That's Ganon's playstyle too, but add in "preying on the opp's fear"

You do that with charizard as well.

A lot of characters work this way, TBH. Sonic, Ryu, even Mario & Luigi to an extent. If you get the opponent to press buttons when they shouldn't, you're better off. That's why good movement is also so important.

All characters work that way to some extent, but in terms of degree Charizard stands out. His aggressive options just suck, sometimes, but not very often, you might dashgrab or dash attack or use an aggressive fair to stuff out an opponent whom you think isn't expecting it, but you spend most of your time in neutral or disadvantage, doing moves to bait attacks or to cover anticipated attacks, actually being quite passive and trying to harrass without committing. A lot of people think they can harass Charizard like other superheavies, which plays to his advantage. His initial jab has very good range for a F4 jab, it reaches far ahead of him, very strong OOS option. He doesn't have a kill confirm grab, but he has a plethora of moves that kill, most of which are far easier to land when punishing aggressive play, he doesnt need to rely on one in particular, since he has a lot of different kill moves it takes more character knowledge to know what to look out for. Thats why Charizard players don't really need to look for kills so much as let them come to them by just staying alive and paying attention to how the opponent is attacking. Most other characters are more specific and proactive in the ways they like to end stocks.

 

[Minordeth]

Zero just murdered Javi 3-0 after a relatively close 1st game. The commentators wondered why Javi got blasted the last two games, but if you are a Sheik player, and the first time you charge needles in a game is two minutes in, you are in panic autopilot. Needles are still probably the best projectile in the game. Use them.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

All characters work that way to some extent, but in terms of degree Charizard stands out. His aggressive options just suck, sometimes, but not very often, you might dashgrab or dash attack or use an aggressive fair to stuff out an opponent whom you think isn't expecting it, but you spend most of your time in neutral or disadvantage, doing moves to bait attacks or to cover anticipated attacks, actually being quite passive and trying to harrass without committing. A lot of people think they can harass Charizard like other superheavies, which plays to his advantage. His initial jab has very good range for a F4 jab, it reaches far ahead of him, very strong OOS option. He doesn't have a kill confirm grab, but he has a plethora of moves that kill, most of which are far easier to land when punishing aggressive play, he doesnt need to rely on one in particular, since he has a lot of different kill moves it takes more character knowledge to know what to look out for. Thats why Charizard players don't really need to look for kills so much as let them come to them by just staying alive and paying attention to how the opponent is attacking. Most other characters are more specific and proactive in the ways they like to end stocks.

Exactly, every character mentioned might, for sake of argument, wait for their opponent to make the first move but they don't have to RELY on it and center their gameplan AROUND it.
Mario has his dash grab into his utilt, luigi has even more combos out of his own dthrow, ganondorf can use flame choke plus wizard's foot to take an aggressive stance. Zard can't do any of these things. His dthrow into fair only works at very low %'s so in most cases it's best not to even bother because he has almost no true combos. His flare blitz is a move that leaves zard vulnerable to jablock (which is why I almost never use it), almost all of zard's smashes are slow and laggy but have excellent kb and range so it's best to use these OOS or as a punish.
In other words zard can't play aggressively, his moveset doesn't allow it. Trying to play aggressively with a zard can and will cause you to lose because nearly all of his moves are punishable on shield or whiff, combine that with zard being combo food and it's just an awful idea to play aggressively with zard.

 

[TDK]

So I'm out all day and come home to Scizor in top 16.

Not that I'm complaining, but... what?

 

[Minordeth]

And then Stroder loses last hit to Scizors Link. I'm not a Greninja main, so I'm not sure how this MU is supposed to play, but if you are Greninja, do you really want to play at mid-long range against Link? Like, I know Stroder wanted those whiff punishes, but Link is actually really safe on shield with his aerials and spaced Ftilt.

I've never seen a Greninja sit in shield so much. What say you, Frogs? Edit: or Hylians.

 

[Lord Dio]

I'm unsure what to say about this.......
https://clips.twitch.tv/CharmingChillyToadPermaSmug

 

[FullMoon]

Can't really give much input on Stroder vs Scizor because I wasn't watching, but I'm really impressed with how Stroder is doing, he sure is climbing up in terms of skill.

Other people who were watching the stream can probably dissect that match better than I can, but I do believe Greninja should have a small advantage over Link in the MU.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

Looks like Rosalina got kill thrown (It's either up or down don't remember) by Blue Pikmin and yet hit by luma mid animation yet the throw continued. Which may have somehow increased knockback because even though that definitely would gat killed the knock back received look higher than normal.

 

[TDK]

Shuton 3-2 ZeRo

 

[Wintermelon43]

Shuton beat ZeRo 3-2

 

[Minordeth]

Can't really give much input on Stroder vs Scizor because I wasn't watching, but I'm really impressed with how Stroder is doing, he sure is climbing up in terms of skill.

Other people who were watching the stream can probably dissect that match better than I can, but I do believe Greninja should have a small advantage over Link in the MU.

He played pretty fundamentals based and really only tried to do some drag down Uair set ups during the match with Scizor once or twice. He plays miles differently than say, Venia, which would probably be one of my bigger gripes - that his punish game was pretty lacking, especially against Scizor. I think Link's kill power spooked him and he turned off the burners.

Edit: Stroder did say that if Nairo had gone Bowser or Lucina that he would have gotten destroyed.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Help me the Olimar discord flair chat is blowing up lmao I couldn't be more happier as an Olimar player.

 

[Minordeth]

Apparently the Gods of Smash have decided that "Greninja and Link" and "Top 8" are mutually exclusive terms.

 

[The-Technique]

Jesus I had a heart attack when Stroder read T's airdodges and almost killed him. What a great set.

 

[JB333]

T 3-2 Stroder



Hypest set in smash 4 I've EVER seen
Basically real life Anime

 

[Guido65]

Tsu3-0 T.

 

[FullMoon]

Poor Stroder, got blocked by Link twice in a row, still had a really good run though.

 

[Das Koopa]

The Prophecy of Radical Larry

 

[ARISTOS]

Shuton 3-2 ZeRo

Shuton will win

 

[Illusion.]

This Means War (57 entrants: Houston, Texas)

1st. Barakas
2nd. Cashmere
3rd. Mbohne
4th. SU | BC
---------------------------------------
Other notable placements:
5th. Day
9th. Deluxemenu
9th. Shadow_PR
9th. Tenni
13th. FX | Karna

 

[Y2Kay]

And then Stroder loses last hit to Scizors Link. I'm not a Greninja main, so I'm not sure how this MU is supposed to play, but if you are Greninja, do you really want to play at mid-long range against Link? Like, I know Stroder wanted those whiff punishes, but Link is actually really safe on shield with his aerials and spaced Ftilt.

I've never seen a Greninja sit in shield so much. What say you, Frogs? Edit: or Hylians.

How I read it was Stroder was scared of rage Link fair and he was trying to wait for an opening in shield at mid range. He'd be better off just stuffing him on landing or in between bomb throws with dash attack and start something. None of link's projectiles could have killed him anyway. He let rage scare him into losing faith in his mobility advantage and paid the price for it.

 

[Game7a1]

Shuton will win

About that...
ZeRo 3-1 Shuton in Loser's Finals.

 

[TDK]

2GGC: West Side Saga (300 Entrants) (SoCal)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Tweek
3rd: Shuton
4th: KEN
5th: Kirihara
5th: Nairo
7th: Tsu-
7th: Charliedaking
9th: Scizor
9th: Zinoto
9th: Abadango
9th: T
13th: VaLoR
13th: Falln
13th: Lima
13th: Stroder
17th: Locus
17th: Apa~
17th: SS
17th: Javi
17th: Aarvark
17th: Zenyou
17th: Elegant
17th: Aperture
25th: Tyrant
25th: Rich Brown
25th: DSS
25th: Konga
25th: JK
25th: Luhite
25th: Eon
25th: TLTC

Emerald City V (112 Entrants) (Pacific Northwest)

1st: Cacogen
2nd: Big D
3rd: Captain L
4th: Shinkou
5th: Pokepen
5th: Magister
7th: Locke
7th: Pyreeze

I think Olimar is one of the few remaining characters in this game with top tier potential. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him in top 10 down the line.

 

[ARISTOS]

About that...
ZeRo 3-1 Shuton in Loser's Finals.

I underestimated the power of the Egyptian God Cards

2GGC: West Side Saga (300 Entrants) (SoCal)

I think Olimar is one of the few remaining characters in this game with top tier potential. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him in top 10 down the line.

I agree

 

[Nathan Richardson]

9th. Tenni

5th: Magister

I'm actually kind of stunned that solo and secondary zards are getting these kinds of placements. Even if they are small tourneys, having a character that's considered low-tier placing like that is good regardless if it's solo zard or a zard secondary.

 

[Yonder]

2GGC: West Side Saga (300 Entrants) (SoCal)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Tweek
3rd: Shuton
4th: KEN
5th: Kirihara
5th: Nairo
7th: Tsu-
7th: Charliedaking
9th: Scizor
9th: Zinoto
9th: Abadango
9th: T
13th: VaLoR
13th: Falln
13th: Lima
13th: Stroder
17th: Locus
17th: Apa~
17th: SS
17th: Javi
17th: Aarvark
17th: Zenyou
17th: Elegant
17th: Aperture
25th: Tyrant
25th: Rich Brown
25th: DSS
25th: Konga
25th: JK
25th: Luhite
25th: Eon
25th: TLTC

Emerald City V (112 Entrants) (Pacific Northwest)

1st: Cacogen
2nd: Big D
3rd: Captain L
4th: Shinkou
5th: Pokepen
5th: Magister
7th: Locke
7th: Pyreeze

I think Olimar is one of the few remaining characters in this game with top tier potential. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him in top 10 down the line.

This feels like jumping the shark a bit. He has Shuton and Dabuz (as a secondary) and this is probably Shuton's best showing, but I don't see top tier yet until he's trouncing top players on a regular basis and moves past top 20 in results (that's where he's hovering rn). High tier, yes, but he's competing with for top 10 alone. I only see Olimar surpassing Marth/Marthette. Then you have the borderlines (Do NOT count DK out atm he's on fire) that can breakout at any moment.

Lots of competition makes Olimar feel more like 15-20th pool. Crazy how anyone in this game can explode onto the scene in minutes. They just have to continue to balance on the hype wave instead of falling off like others.


I will say that Olimar has a good MU on Diddy though which is always positive. Then again so does Luigi, but he's not doing too hot lately...imo.

 

[Rizen]

I'm back, I had to give my hands a break. Anything interesting happen or just same old top tiers with the occasional upsets?

2GGC: West Side Saga (300 Entrants) (SoCal)

1st: ZeRo
2nd: Tweek
3rd: Shuton
4th: KEN
5th: Kirihara
5th: Nairo
7th: Tsu-
7th: Charliedaking
9th: Scizor
9th: Zinoto
9th: Abadango
9th: T
13th: VaLoR
13th: Falln
13th: Lima
13th: Stroder
17th: Locus
17th: Apa~
17th: SS
17th: Javi
17th: Aarvark
17th: Zenyou
17th: Elegant
17th: Aperture
25th: Tyrant
25th: Rich Brown
25th: DSS
25th: Konga
25th: JK
25th: Luhite
25th: Eon
25th: TLTC

Alright, Scizor and T doing work

 

[Skeeter Mania]

This Means War (57 entrants: Houston, Texas)

1st. Barakas
2nd. Cashmere
3rd. Mbohne
4th. SU | BC
---------------------------------------
Other notable placements:
5th. Day
9th. Deluxemenu
9th. Shadow_PR
9th. Tenni
13th. FX | Karna

Me liking dis...

 

[Laken64]

9th: Abadango

Abadongo also used MK against Lima and took 2 games with him

 

[Kofu]

The Prophecy of Radical Larry

Link is looking more and more like a low high tier, or at least around the same level of competitiveness as DK and Bowser (though without being focused around a singular aspect of gameplay). I mean, there were the same number of Links in top 16 as Diddys, Bayos, Sonics, and Rosalinas.

A complete lack of Sheik probably helped, but still.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

People tend to forget that characters like Olimar, Link, Ness, Lucario to name a few there are others, are all still good characters they just happen to be uncommon characters with few top players or top players who don't show up to a lot. It doesn't surprise me to see them do well when they are able to come out. Understandably not everyone can be top or high tier but seeing Link place doesn't surprise me T is good, Link is good.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Shulla-Bra XI (Japan) 116 entrants

1) Ri-Ma

2) FILIP

3) Mattun

4) Kome

5) Zaki

5) Pikazono

7) Hiro

7) Tarakotori