3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Zzuxon]

Apparently the damage dealt by 's Galaxian has been nerfed from 11% to 9%.

 

[Cornstalk]

- DRAGON RUSH (Over-B Custom 3) DAMAGE: 15% ⇒ 11%
This is assuming every possible hit lands. For more realistic uses it's only a 1-2% nerf. Knockback is unchanged. (forgot to record % vs mario, but same scenarios in 1.02 and 1.04 with the exact same starting % resulting in a KO from Dragon Rush)

Super Armor and Priority of all 3 Over-B's have come up in discussion, but so far no hard evidence has been presented that the armor or priority have actually changed.


So far this is the only change confirmed in the Charizard 1.04 discussion topic.
Damage and knockback on the rest of Charizard's moves appear to be the same. If they added or removed lag for any of Charizard's moves I don't believe it was significant enough to notice.

 

[Thinkaman]

Intereting. I just tried out my own test in training mode.

What is being referred to in this game as vectoring seems to have been significantly changed (weakened?).

In my test I used DK on BF and I blew up a blast box (on my right) at various %'s with ground pound in training mode.

Both Patches

60% No Input = Barely lives
61% No Input = KO

Pre-Patch

77% Holding down/left = Barely lives
46% Holding up/right = KO

Post-Patch

64% Holding down/left = Barely lives
58% Holding up/right = KO

Upon further examination, I confirmed this is not restricted to training mode. At 60% (handicap) with no input, I still barely lived in both patches. Pre patch at 50% I'd get KO'd holding up/right in vs mode. Post patch I wasn't KO'd at 50%.

I guess there could be more global level changes like this. If they changed something like this so soon. It may be a revert to regular DI mechanics from previous smash games. This needs more testing.

Oh boy, time to test~

 

[TTTTTsd]

*slaps the back of your head*

DI/VI/vectoring/whatever is the same.

Go to training mode as Mario, set your damage 50%, and throw down a gooey bomb.

Well from what I'm reading it's not as effective, maybe? *rubs back of head* I'm sorry. If Vectoring is weakened, however, this could lead to a lot more interesting things in the game, exciting~

 

[KuroganeHammer]

They could have buffed blast boxes

 

[Jaxas]

*slaps the back of your head*

DI/VI/vectoring/whatever is the same.

Go to training mode as Mario, set your damage 50%, and throw down a gooey bomb.

So this may have changed (I'm not sure as I haven't tested it; I did just confirm that VI is indeed still in the game to some degree), but it may also just be some confusion I caused back in the Vectoring thread.

I did some tests that proved that you could live through things a TON longer, like an extra almost 50%. This was in error, though; the reason the numbers were so huge was due to crouch cancelling, which we later figured out but I don't believe everyone knows yet.

So basically:
- Vectoring isn't as strong as everyone thought (weaker at surviving than standard DI, even)
- Crouch cancelling is freaking ridiculous

Sorry for any confusion caused!

 

[Thinkaman]

Ok, Gooey Bomb kills Mario from the center of FD in training mode at:

1.0.4 No Input: 45%
1.0.4 Holding Down After Hit: 47%
1.0.4 Holding Down Before Hit: 70%

1.0.3 No Input: 45%
1.0.3 Holding Down After Hit: 58%
1.0.3 Holding Down Before Hit: 84%

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MrPhox]

Tails' helicopter attack damage is increased from 1% per hit to 2% per hit...

 

[TTTTTsd]

VECTORING NERFED HOLY COW!

WELL, this changes everything, doesn't it?

 

[Smooth Criminal]

holy ****

Smooth Criminal

 

[Thinkaman]

So this may have changed (I'm not sure as I haven't tested it; I did just confirm that VI is indeed still in the game to some degree), but it may also just be some confusion I caused back in the Vectoring thread.

I did some tests that proved that you could live through things a TON longer, like an extra almost 50%. This was in error, though; the reason the numbers were so huge was due to crouch cancelling, which we later figured out but I don't believe everyone knows yet.

So basically:
- Vectoring isn't as strong as everyone thought (weaker at surviving than standard DI, even)
- Crouch cancelling is freaking ridiculous

Sorry for any confusion caused!

Hm, you are right; if I slow things down and down't do the down input until the hitbox comes out, it kills sooner.

 

[Big O]

Ok, Gooey Bomb kills Mario from the center of FD in training mode at:

1.0.4 No Input: 45%
1.0.4. Holding Down: 70%

1.0.3 No Input: 45%
1.0.3 Holding Down: 84%

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure you should be holding down by itself because of crouch canceling, but it is nice to see confirmation that it IS different.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Ok, Gooey Bomb kills Mario from the center of FD in training mode at:

1.0.4 No Input: 45%
1.0.4. Holding Down: 70%

1.0.3 No Input: 45%
1.0.3 Holding Down: 84%

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crouch canceling still super strong tho

O.o

 

[SonicZeroX]

Well then

I wonder if Rage has been adjusted as well

 

[Jaxas]

Ok, Gooey Bomb kills Mario from the center of FD in training mode at:

1.0.4 No Input: 45%
1.0.4. Holding Down: 70%

1.0.3 No Input: 45%
1.0.3 Holding Down: 84%

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just checked and it appears that crouch cancelling may have been removed! You die at 70% whether you were crouching or standing with this method

Possibly anyways, gonna test further

EDIT: Nevermind! Crouch cancelling is still strong AF.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Just checked and it appears that crouch cancelling may have been removed! You die at 70% whether you were crouching or standing with this method

What.

Screw vectoring changes.

This is huge.

Edit: ahhhh your sneaky edit so sneaky

 

[san.]

Just checked and it appears that crouch cancelling may have been removed! You die at 70% whether you were crouching or standing with this method

That explains why I didn't feel much difference in survivability when I get hit in the air. I was still surviving until 160%+

 

[SaltyKracka]

Perhaps you guys should be testing this with horizontal kill move?

 

[Jaxas]

I edited my post, but looks like I was too late - crouch cancelling is still in.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

I edited my post, but looks like I was too late - crouch cancelling is still in

Yeah I just saw that so I edited my post.

We seem to be posting in circles of one another lol

 

[Thinkaman]

Ok, Gooey Bomb kills Mario from the center of FD in training mode at:

1.0.4 No Input: 45%
1.0.4 Holding Down After Hit: 47%
1.0.4 Holding Down Before Hit: 70%

1.0.3 No Input: 45%
1.0.3 Holding Down After Hit: 58%
1.0.3 Holding Down Before Hit: 84%

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited in new results.

!!!!!!!

As a reminder, Gooey Bombs hit almost vertically, like maybe 15 degrees off.

It looks like the vertical component has been removed, at least in this context.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Edited in new results.

!!!!!!!

As a reminder, Gooey Bombs hit almost vertically, like maybe 15 degrees off.

It looks like the vertical component has been removed, at least in this context.

Whoa.
Try DIing like in melee or brawl

 

[Big O]

I think vectoring may have been replaced by regular DI mechanics.

Previously the best direction to hold for survival was down/left. Now it is left like it would be in Brawl/Melee. I guess I will just check launch speeds and see if they change in vs mode.

RIP Vectoring.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Is vectoring even a thing any more? And if it is, is there much point in doing it?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

@Dantarion on the oft chance you see this, I watched your stream and I was the person who reported the base damage changes to fair.

Also I was the person who reported the number of hits change to up air, I just tested it like, 8 times just then and it's definitely been changed from 5 hits to 4 hits. Perhaps it's a rehit rate thing? I couldn't see your data properly on stream.

 

[Thinkaman]

I think vectoring may have been replaced by regular DI mechanics.

This... actually seems like the most plausible explanation for the behavior I am seeing.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Are you sure? What about outside of training mode? Other characters?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Thinkaman]

Does anyone know a strictly vertical stage or item hitbox I can use easily?

Edit: Mute City, duh

 

[TTTTTsd]

Huh...is this really a ninja-patch that adds back DI? That would be...hilarious.

 

[Yokta]

So is Yoshi's down aerial still OP in All Star?

 

[Big O]

Vectoring is officially dead. The direction you hold no longer affects launch speeds or distance, just angles. Tested in vs mode.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

WELP

Smooth Criminal

 

[Jaxas]

Vectoring is officially dead. The direction you hold no longer affects launch speeds or distance, just angles. Tested in vs mode.

Confirming this, pretty apparent when using Mute City (drop down, see how high you go. Reset -> drop hold down, see how high you go. Reset drop down and hold up, same height for all 3).

Holy crap though, not something I expected to disappear!

 

[KlefkiHolder]

But I liked the name....

Oh well. DI is probably the better mechanic :]

 

[TTTTTsd]

So...wow...for all the things we lost....we got our DI back. That's crazy.

 

[Thinkaman]

On Mute City, Mario dies from the track at 104% with no input.

On 1.0.3, you can live to 134% by holding down.

On 1.0.4, holding down doesn't matter.

It's dead Jim.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

On Mute City, Mario dies from the track at 104% with no input.

On 1.0.3, you can live to 134% by holding down.

On 1.0.4, holding down doesn't matter.

It's dead Jim.

Hold left

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Sorry for this mods, but

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Smooth Criminal

 

[Virgule]

44 Pages in and we finally made a huge discovery, this is freaking exciting.

 

[Cap'nChreest]

No vectoring? Hooray for a 3 stock competitive scene!