3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Lavani]

No Charizard info?

Dragon Rush being nerfed 15%>11% is all that's been observed.

 

[Colin Steele]

So, everyone's work on 'tier lists' is now pretty ****ed right?

 

[Crescent_Sun]

If you can call it work, kind of. We barely had enough information to really nail tier lists to begin with, it's not like we didn't expect these lists to become invalid pretty quickly.

 

[LordFluffy]

They're reduced by 1, not set to 1. This effectively puts Jab 2 on the exact threshold to reflect it. Jab 3 is still way above it, I believe.

Can confirm all 3 basic jabs reflect DDD's Gordo

 

[Terotrous]

To answer an earlier question you had, the hydrant didn't gain a percent, PacMan's b-air has lost one percent. A fresh hit only does 11% now.

If this is confirmed it should go in the OP, that's much more clear than what's there now.

 

[Thinkaman]

PAC-MAN bair does 11.8% in both versions.

The hydrant is now 13 HP instead of 12 HP.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

These are all confirmed false:





These are all true:



I am unable to directly compare customs; my 1.0.3 game has no ZSS customs unlocked.

Damn yo tag me on these things. Im just posting this so I can easily find it later. Still going through the thread slowly between patients :X

 

[Kofu]

Just double-checking the Villager changes; USmash has slightly increased killing power and the tree is no longer vulnerable to Falco's Reflector Void? I assume the latte meant the unchopped tree, it should still destroy it once it's falling.

 

[_Malal]

Can I get a confirmation on Roll Cancel Pivot Grabs being different in 1.04?

I haven't seen it on anyone's change lists, but I remember In previous versions it would stop your momentum abruptly instead of sliding.

Now it seems identical, except with the rollflash added. I remember it being a good tool for Marth/Zelda in particular, but I don't have a 1.03 copy onhand

 

[Thinkaman]

Damn yo tag me on these things. Im just posting this so I can easily find it later. Still going through the thread slowly between patients :X

Sorry, I was unsure who was currently taking ownership of op updates.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Damn yo tag me on these things. Im just posting this so I can easily find it later. Still going through the thread slowly between patients :X

I linked important ones in the PM we are in right now if you wanna quick check those ones.

 

[Terotrous]

PAC-MAN bair does 11.8% in both versions.

The hydrant is now 13 HP instead of 12 HP.

So does Z-drop key do 13 (or more) damage?

I really would just test that myself but I'm still stuck at work.

 

[Thinkaman]

Just double-checking the Villager changes; USmash has slightly increased killing power and the tree is no longer vulnerable to Falco's Reflector Void? I assume the latte meant the unchopped tree, it should still destroy it once it's falling.

Villager Lloid Rocket double hitbox bug fixed, and Void Reflector should reflect the tree projectile properly. (It's not energy-based, not absorbed.)

So does Z-drop key do 13 (or more) damage?

I really would just test that myself but I'm still stuck at work.

It does 15%. I confirmed it can kick the hydrant.

 

[Lavani]

Can I get a confirmation on Roll Cancel Pivot Grabs being different in 1.04?

I haven't seen it on anyone's change lists, but I remember In previous versions it would stop your momentum abruptly instead of sliding.

Now it seems identical, except with the rollflash added. I remember it being a good tool for Marth/Zelda in particular, but I don't have a 1.03 copy onhand

I can't even get roll cancel pivot grabs to come out in 1.0.4 at all, I either get a regular pivot grab or a pivot ftilt despite being consistent at it before.

I can still get regular roll cancel grabs consistently too.

Would like confirmation from someone else as well, though.

 

[_Malal]

I can't even get roll cancel pivot grabs to come out in 1.0.4 at all, I either get a regular pivot grab or a pivot ftilt despite being consistent at it before.

The timing is definitely tighter, I used to able to do it for free, but now it takes a couple of tries.

 

[EpixAura]

So, everyone's work on 'tier lists' is now pretty ****ed right?

To be fair, I'd be willing to bet Nintendo used these 'tier lists' as one of the sources of information about which characters needed changes. After all, the changes seemed very consistent with the general opinion on character placements.

 

[Sinister Slush]

So, everyone's work on 'tier lists' is now pretty ****ed right?

Anybody who tried making a tier list this early on (especially with 3DS) is asking to be banned and lynched by whoever reads their opinions.

 

[Thinkaman]

To be fair, I'd be willing to bet Nintendo used these 'tier lists' as one of the sources of information about which characters needed changes. After all, the changes seemed very consistent with the general opinion on character placements.

ITT: People who think that stuff was patched out because it was posted on Smashboards in English.

It was all the Japanese QA team, folks. This build was gold a month ago.

There were literally printed discs in people hands two weeks ago.

 

[Crescent_Sun]

So that Thinkaman doesn't have to repeat---

Damn dude, do you have that post bookmarked for whenever this happens?

 

[Terotrous]

Anybody who tried making a tier list this early on (especially with 3DS) is asking to be banned and lynched by whoever reads their opinions.

To be honest high / top tier was pretty obvious. There was a pretty solid consensus about it.

 

[Dantarion]

Full script dumps and diffs coming tonight!
Just for characters, not for items/articles etc

 

[LordFluffy]

Now it seems identical, except with the rollflash added. I remember it being a good tool for Marth/Zelda in particular, but I don't have a 1.03 copy onhand

I have more trouble doing it, but i still seem to still be able to do it. keyword seem here as i am doubting i was doing it properly in the first place right now.

 

[Thinkaman]

So that Thinkaman doesn't have to repeat---

Damn dude, do you have that post bookmarked for whenever this happens?

Full script dumps and diffs coming tonight!
Just for characters, not for items/articles etc

 

[Sinister Slush]

The only two that were obvious was Sheik/Rosalina fighting for first. 3rd and under everyone had different opinions on.
Think I even saw Jigglypuff taking 3rd.

 

[Terotrous]

The only two that were obvious was Sheik/Rosalina fighting for first. 3rd and under everyone had different opinions on.
Think I even saw Jigglypuff taking 3rd.

Well yeah no one knew ordering for like 3-12 but we knew who was generally in that range.

I actually don't think the top parts will change drastically. IMO, Sheik and Rosa are likely no longer a cut above everyone else. Most good characters are still good even if they are a little less so. Lower tier characters got a bit more of a shakeup, in particular Shulk and Ike are likely moving up a fair bit (maybe also Olimar if his Pikmin AI is functional on Wii U), but at this time I'm a bit skeptical that they will reach the top.

This discussion should really go to the "Character Competitive Impressions" thread, though. This one is just for changes.

 

[Generically Epic]

New plan, we do not post these techniques online, but instead share them. Don't give Nintendo any information on what we have found. These game is looking worse by the second if they are killing off the advanced techs.

 

[LordFluffy]

New plan, we do not post these techniques online, but instead share them. Don't give Nintendo any information on what we have found. These game is looking worse by the second if they are killing off the advanced techs.

 

[Lemon Girl]

I can't even get roll cancel pivot grabs to come out in 1.0.4 at all, I either get a regular pivot grab or a pivot ftilt despite being consistent at it before.

I can still get regular roll cancel grabs consistently too.

Would like confirmation from someone else as well, though.

I can do both just fine, but it seems like characters slide a little now.

 

[Thinkaman]

THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED BEFORE
AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN

New plan, we do not post these techniques online, but instead share them. Don't give Nintendo any information on what we have found. These game is looking worse by the second if they are killing off the advanced techs.

IT KEEPS HAPPENING

 

[Crescent_Sun]

Yeah guys the only way to save Smash is to make the competitive scene a complete conspiracy.

Did you not read up above that they likely found all these things through their own QA testing? It doesn't matter if we say **** they're going to find it, and hiding stuff is bad for the competitive environment. Come on.

 

[Teshie U]

Considering they didn't fix bugs that appear only in the 3DS version (stage glitches), I'm betting this is all stuff they realize while playtesting the Wii U version.

In any case, good luck posting things on the internet while hiding those things from a multi billion dollar entity.

 

[HitokiriBattousai]

i have seen some mention some things about Lucario like his Aura Sphere damage was nerfed or his normal without aura were buffed

just tested both Aura Sphere still does the same damage and scales the same with aura it did on 1.03 and his normals all do the same damage (without having a 1.03 version to compare to i can't be sure of knockback and such)

i used this and followed it exactly and got the same results (i scaled the damage to test Aura's effect on Aura Sphere from 0% to 187% and just tested 0% damage on everything else) http://smashboards.com/threads/lucarios-aura-damage-chart.372167/

i'll test the aura scaling on everything else later if you don't hear back from me it means there are not any changes between 1.03 and 1.04 Aura scaling

 

[DanGR]

@ Thinkaman

Not confirmed
If you're still testing, could you check Rosalina's up/down angled fsmash range? Placebo perhaps, but I swear it had a bit more range in 1.0.3. An easy way to do this is by hitting people on top of battlefield platforms, and pushing CPU to the ledge on YI.

edit: clarifying that I'm interested in Luma's hitbox range as a distance away from Rosalina.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'm now imagining a scene where all the competitive players live in secrecy. no posts. no videos. Tournaments underground...

Gotta protect the tech, people! everybody run!

Can just imagine if this happened and Melee was patched....
"Link's upB startup time increased by 50 because it was too cheap"

 

[LordFluffy]

Full script dumps and diffs coming tonight!
Just for characters, not for items/articles etc

 

[Terotrous]

I'm now imagining a scene where all the competitive players live in secrecy. no posts. no videos. Tournaments underground...

Remember to report suspected Tecriminals to Big Nintendo.

 

[Thinkaman]

@ Thinkaman

Not confirmed
If you're still testing, could you check Rosalina's up/down angled fsmash range? Placebo perhaps, but I swear it had a bit more range in 1.0.3. An easy way to do this is by hitting people on top of battlefield platforms, and pushing CPU to the ledge on YI.

edit: clarifying that im interested in Luma's hitbox range as a distance away from Rosalina.

Last test, because I like Dan:

I can't see any difference.

 

[Deleted member]

The question (now that we have most data of the changes) is will Nintendo patch the game post-Wii U version launch for balancing purposes? All of these changes are 99% most likely caused by the dev team balancing the Wii U version and patching the 3DS version to keep it in line. If Nintendo continues to patch the game with character balance in mind, the meta could be more dynamic (more buffs for weaker characters/characters decided to have been nerfed too much, and nerfs for OP characters/moves).

 

[hey_there]

Full script dumps and diffs coming tonight!
Just for characters, not for items/articles etc

Source?

 

[DarkKiru]

The question (now that we have most data of the changes) is will Nintendo patch the game post-Wii U version launch for balancing purposes? All of these changes are 99% most likely caused by the dev team balancing the Wii U version and patching the 3DS version to keep it in line. If Nintendo continues to patch the game with character balance in mind, the meta could be more dynamic (more buffs for weaker characters/characters decided to have been nerfed too much, and nerfs for OP characters/moves).

Its very likely we'll see more balance patches, though I doubt soon, and I doubt they'll be anywhere NEAR as big as this one (this was for all intents and purposes: Smash Bros 4, version 1.0.0 in the sense that they did a fresh start, massive sweeping changes for most of the cast)