Osennecho
Smash Ace
Nope.... Hate me or it if you want but it is a top 10 anime. And the majority of people, viewers, and raters concur. I could probably go find 4/5 of the most well known anime raters/ratings placing it in top 5 even.
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(」・ω・)」 MARS la Marf in Smash 4 (／・ω・)／
- Thread starter Virgilijus
- Start date
Osennecho
Smash Ace
You mean like MLP? #Shots Fired. I jest though. MLP isn't bad but rather just absurdly ****** up with all the hidden/not so hidden references etc. I don't personally enjoy the show but I have friends who do. Similar to my reaction to the Bleach/Naruto anime suggestion earlier in the thread. You are MUCH better off reading the manga for those two IMO. The other suggestions were great though.
Naruto ending soon (finally) while Kubo still being a troll with Bleach.
One Piece won't be over till we're all 40 and Oda is 90.
One Piece won't be over till we're all 40 and Oda is 90.
Zano
Smash Master
People like CoD, let's call it the greatest game in history.
Osennecho
Smash Ace
=.= Transitive property and fallacies... Ok... I choose to apply your own logic to every single anime you like.
Zano
Smash Master
My opinion is fact so I don't need other people to tell me, cause they're wrong.
Instead of Death Note... why don't you guys read Obata's OTHER work?
Bakuman. It's about kids wanting to become Mangaka's. I mean it ended last year finally, but it's decent just like Death Note.
Bakuman. It's about kids wanting to become Mangaka's. I mean it ended last year finally, but it's decent just like Death Note.
If you watch OP, ignore anything about a character with a long nose, it will make the series at least 6x better.
Also, don't watch the first ~100 episodes. They are slow and boring and suck. It's bearable/gets good/decent eventually.
Read Liar Game. It's basically the best thing ever.
Also, don't watch the first ~100 episodes. They are slow and boring and suck. It's bearable/gets good/decent eventually.
Read Liar Game. It's basically the best thing ever.
Ereth
Murda Bidness
What about sogeking....?
clowsui
Smash Legend
20th Century Boys is just about as good as Monster.
The Book of Human Insects, MW and Buddha are also really good. Osamu Tezuka is a ****ing boss.
The Book of Human Insects, MW and Buddha are also really good. Osamu Tezuka is a ****ing boss.
clowsui
Smash Legend
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Real men have moved on past your puny Japanese cartoons. Its all about that Manwha nowadays.
SOMEBODY ACTUALLY READS LIAR GAME TOO!?
Ereth
Murda Bidness
Basically the best thing ever of all time ever. It REALLY needs 170 to come out though.
Hopefully it doesn't do the same crap back when they didn't release a chapter for a year and a half after the end of round 4
They haven't released a chapter in a couple months, so it might happen again.
Until then... everybody read Billy Bat
Until then... everybody read Billy Bat
Zano
Smash Master
Nike.
Smash Hero
Yo CJ, post up your Europe plans!!
PEACE7
Smash Champion
Any of you niggs play against a good Pit a lot?
clowsui
Smash Legend
Pit sucks. Don't jump from too far away and you win.
You going to Europe with him?
Ereth
Murda Bidness
I get to play an old school pit player every once in awhile, I might be able to help
I don't get to play against a good Pit a lot, but I've gotten to play against Pit for a gazillion years.
Won that one friendly against KiraFlax before he ***** me with ROB :3
Pit is a great MU for Marth. It really tests how strong I am with down tilt spacing and edge guarding (+ the combination of the two).
Won that one friendly against KiraFlax before he ***** me with ROB :3
Pit is a great MU for Marth. It really tests how strong I am with down tilt spacing and edge guarding (+ the combination of the two).
Also, I'VE CRACKED IT... whatever it is.
As a result
I'm confident that with this image, I could probably explain the entirety of everything you need to be almost as good as MikeNeko.
So let's start.
Here's a key for my image's amazingly beautiful coloured semi transparent lines/ruler marks.
First (Purple) - Maximum reach of Marth's hurtbox while stationary
Second (Aqua) - Furthest reach of Marth's hurtbox while shielding (dat foot)
Third (Lime) - Where power shields extend to [and possibly slightly beyond]) and the reach of a pretty healthy shield.
What does this image tell you?
It shows you what spacing really is.
It gives you a logic for what you're doing and how you're manoeuvring to maximise safety.
It is also a strong example of how much space is given or restricted to you by your various animations. Bodies and extremities skew and stretch in all types of weird and wonderful directions for EVERYTHING YOU DO. On another positive point is that as a clearly viewable sphere, it gives me enough to help explain to you the peculiarities of Marth's hitboxes on various moves, and their implications.
Marth's Hitboxes
Similar to the shield, hitboxes are spheres centred at a certain point. From the image above, the furthest reach of Marth's hurtbox (his foot) is significantly shorter than the maximum reach of the shield. Pretending for a second that this is a hitbox, by that logic the maximum horizontal reach of a move comes only from a centre point.
When it comes to nearly every move in the game, hitboxes of moves overlap; in Marth's case the game prioritises our non-tipper hits to register in areas of overlap. Assuming hitboxes ontop of each other in the way they are in Brawl (look them up if you're not sure), the maximum "area" of no overlap will be coming towards the "corners" (in other words the "foot" area of a hitbox will be the most area available for tippering). Every one of Marth's moves has an area both horizontally/vertically which will have the tipper hitbox most protruding - and I tend to call them auto tippers. I know, from practise, where the auto tipper areas of Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, dtilt and dsmash are. The spacing for tipper fsmashing people on platforms is easy as well. A general rule here is that the most protruding tipper point exists in the opposite direction in which it travels. For fair/bair, this means I space/swing at specific vertical heights to auto tipper (with the first and last hits of fair hitbox being what you hit with), for dair and uair you pick horizontal positions to "easily" tipper [or in the case of uair, avoid tippering] them.
Back to the centre point. Knowing where the centres are for moves are important. In Marth's case, it is rarely directly aligned with his sword. This is a contrast to Meta Knight. Meta Knight's down tilt hitbox is centred on the ground, and hence its maximum horizontal range matches with the animation. In Marth's case his hitbox for down tilt is slightly higher, at his furthest reach of his sword animation, there is no hitbox - the maximum reach comes above the sword, giving it's auto tipper area above the ground and being quite a mimic of Down Smash in this regard (this is easy to see with how MikeNeko uses dtilt). What does this difference (re: MK) mean? It means that MK's down tilt can reach 'below' the maximum range of a shield and shield poke our feet. What does this mean for Marth though? It means our down tilt will be hitting people's shields at their maximum range when perfectly spaced. Consider this as "****" in it's purest form.
For our aerials, the hitboxes aren't directly aligned with 'bones' but adjusted. This gives Marth disjoints that do not align with our sword (in other words, we're getting bull **** disjoints). This means that at the maximum horizontal reach of frame 4 of fair, I'm just 500 light years further away from hurtbox than the maximum reach of frame 5 and 6. Frame 7 has the same distinct property.
This means that spacing at those points gives us the maximum safety.
Down tilt hitting shields rather than feet means our maximum range for dtilt is actually longer against shield's than MKs. I'm starting to feel I prefer this.
If you want the best example of a hitbox not centred onto a bone and what effects it has, look at Zero Suit Samus' Uair animation with hitbubbles. It has a "fake" MASSIVE disjoint because of this property.
Actually spacing...
Knowing that there are, in this small scenario, 3 different distances of interaction. It's important to know that for every swing you make, you need to have a reason and goal for that swing.
When I swing my sword, I think "hitting shield". When I play with any character I'm trying to space with, if I'm trying to hit the maximum extremities of shields, I'm very unlikely to be punished (I love Sheik and Falco). When I'm hitting someone I'm consciously choosing to do so - they're in lag or I'm gambling on some commitment which I believe I won't be punished on. For the most part, the commitment part is all I feel I get punished for and everything else just comes naturally.
The beauty of forward air is that when spacing for frame 4 and 7 hits (at the right horizontal/vertical displacements) aiming for maximum reaches of shields, there are these slightly longer horizontally reaching places in frame 5 and 6 which based on my opponent stopping his shield I'm actually "reaching" towards in the case they extend.
This same beauty comes in Neutral air in a more "obvious" form. When spacing for nair, the first hit being shorter than the second - you aim it for their shield or their protruding body parts from hitboxes, but not where they actually "are" at the time. The second hit being longer ranged means that at the same spacing, assuming they didn't "protrude", I'm still reaching and potentially hitting them. I call this 'mechanic' "Carrot and Stick" (poor Horse) strategies. This beautiful nair thing is broken against just about everyone until higher levels of play where people become confident with power shielding. Forward Air is the higher-level play replacement that is a lot more ickly with timing but affords the extra safety against shields. I'd just like to note that C+S Nair is still ****, using it appropriately for beating everyone's moves. Nair used properly only loses to shield. It's still worth learning because it allows us to beat through every character with more range but less disjoint than us (it's reaaaaaaaaaaally good against ZSS, DK, ROB and Wolf)
So back to shields for a second. Beautiful shield animation.
The fact that there is such a huge distance difference between not doing anything and shielding, there must be some really obvious things that I've never really thought of that I can abuse right?
Not shielding is over powered.
Because suddenly I have a significant area in front of me that if I were to shield, would suddenly "catch" any incoming hitboxes that weren't even close to hitting me; giving me this amazing POWER SHIELD.
Furthermore, there are situations where people are naturally aiming for a maximum reach shield or they happen 'accidentally'. Take getting hit on the shield by MK's second hit of dsmash. If you stay in shield, the SECOND down smash (I know its sickening to think there's an MK that bad) will still hit your shield, but in another situation you're sitting without shield, that Dsmash whiffs and you get to punish them for a whiff. Crazy. AbUSE IT.
Power shielding is a tool of spacing. Knowing how much extra horizontal space exists that is hittable, there's the vertical alternative as well. It's known as CROUCHING. Crouching reduces our vertical height by about 60%. His head reaches about where his knees are in the shielding animation. And when you shield from a crouch, all that space above you and also in front of you still becomes your POWER SHIELD ZONE.
Walking coupled with blinking (fast shield drops to reshields, and the same thing while walking) gives you a ridiculous horizontally reaching POWER SHIELD ZONE.
For example
Walk -> shield (sliding) -> unshield (still sliding) -> a little bit of forward walking (your momentum carries over) -> reshield
is BROKEN on Marth because of his walk.
As a result
I'm confident that with this image, I could probably explain the entirety of everything you need to be almost as good as MikeNeko.
So let's start.
Here's a key for my image's amazingly beautiful coloured semi transparent lines/ruler marks.
First (Purple) - Maximum reach of Marth's hurtbox while stationary
Second (Aqua) - Furthest reach of Marth's hurtbox while shielding (dat foot)
Third (Lime) - Where power shields extend to [and possibly slightly beyond]) and the reach of a pretty healthy shield.
What does this image tell you?
It shows you what spacing really is.
It gives you a logic for what you're doing and how you're manoeuvring to maximise safety.
It is also a strong example of how much space is given or restricted to you by your various animations. Bodies and extremities skew and stretch in all types of weird and wonderful directions for EVERYTHING YOU DO. On another positive point is that as a clearly viewable sphere, it gives me enough to help explain to you the peculiarities of Marth's hitboxes on various moves, and their implications.
Marth's Hitboxes
Similar to the shield, hitboxes are spheres centred at a certain point. From the image above, the furthest reach of Marth's hurtbox (his foot) is significantly shorter than the maximum reach of the shield. Pretending for a second that this is a hitbox, by that logic the maximum horizontal reach of a move comes only from a centre point.
When it comes to nearly every move in the game, hitboxes of moves overlap; in Marth's case the game prioritises our non-tipper hits to register in areas of overlap. Assuming hitboxes ontop of each other in the way they are in Brawl (look them up if you're not sure), the maximum "area" of no overlap will be coming towards the "corners" (in other words the "foot" area of a hitbox will be the most area available for tippering). Every one of Marth's moves has an area both horizontally/vertically which will have the tipper hitbox most protruding - and I tend to call them auto tippers. I know, from practise, where the auto tipper areas of Fair, Bair, Uair, Dair, dtilt and dsmash are. The spacing for tipper fsmashing people on platforms is easy as well. A general rule here is that the most protruding tipper point exists in the opposite direction in which it travels. For fair/bair, this means I space/swing at specific vertical heights to auto tipper (with the first and last hits of fair hitbox being what you hit with), for dair and uair you pick horizontal positions to "easily" tipper [or in the case of uair, avoid tippering] them.
Back to the centre point. Knowing where the centres are for moves are important. In Marth's case, it is rarely directly aligned with his sword. This is a contrast to Meta Knight. Meta Knight's down tilt hitbox is centred on the ground, and hence its maximum horizontal range matches with the animation. In Marth's case his hitbox for down tilt is slightly higher, at his furthest reach of his sword animation, there is no hitbox - the maximum reach comes above the sword, giving it's auto tipper area above the ground and being quite a mimic of Down Smash in this regard (this is easy to see with how MikeNeko uses dtilt). What does this difference (re: MK) mean? It means that MK's down tilt can reach 'below' the maximum range of a shield and shield poke our feet. What does this mean for Marth though? It means our down tilt will be hitting people's shields at their maximum range when perfectly spaced. Consider this as "****" in it's purest form.
For our aerials, the hitboxes aren't directly aligned with 'bones' but adjusted. This gives Marth disjoints that do not align with our sword (in other words, we're getting bull **** disjoints). This means that at the maximum horizontal reach of frame 4 of fair, I'm just 500 light years further away from hurtbox than the maximum reach of frame 5 and 6. Frame 7 has the same distinct property.
This means that spacing at those points gives us the maximum safety.
Down tilt hitting shields rather than feet means our maximum range for dtilt is actually longer against shield's than MKs. I'm starting to feel I prefer this.
If you want the best example of a hitbox not centred onto a bone and what effects it has, look at Zero Suit Samus' Uair animation with hitbubbles. It has a "fake" MASSIVE disjoint because of this property.
Actually spacing...
Knowing that there are, in this small scenario, 3 different distances of interaction. It's important to know that for every swing you make, you need to have a reason and goal for that swing.
When I swing my sword, I think "hitting shield". When I play with any character I'm trying to space with, if I'm trying to hit the maximum extremities of shields, I'm very unlikely to be punished (I love Sheik and Falco). When I'm hitting someone I'm consciously choosing to do so - they're in lag or I'm gambling on some commitment which I believe I won't be punished on. For the most part, the commitment part is all I feel I get punished for and everything else just comes naturally.
The beauty of forward air is that when spacing for frame 4 and 7 hits (at the right horizontal/vertical displacements) aiming for maximum reaches of shields, there are these slightly longer horizontally reaching places in frame 5 and 6 which based on my opponent stopping his shield I'm actually "reaching" towards in the case they extend.
This same beauty comes in Neutral air in a more "obvious" form. When spacing for nair, the first hit being shorter than the second - you aim it for their shield or their protruding body parts from hitboxes, but not where they actually "are" at the time. The second hit being longer ranged means that at the same spacing, assuming they didn't "protrude", I'm still reaching and potentially hitting them. I call this 'mechanic' "Carrot and Stick" (poor Horse) strategies. This beautiful nair thing is broken against just about everyone until higher levels of play where people become confident with power shielding. Forward Air is the higher-level play replacement that is a lot more ickly with timing but affords the extra safety against shields. I'd just like to note that C+S Nair is still ****, using it appropriately for beating everyone's moves. Nair used properly only loses to shield. It's still worth learning because it allows us to beat through every character with more range but less disjoint than us (it's reaaaaaaaaaaally good against ZSS, DK, ROB and Wolf)
So back to shields for a second. Beautiful shield animation.
The fact that there is such a huge distance difference between not doing anything and shielding, there must be some really obvious things that I've never really thought of that I can abuse right?
Not shielding is over powered.
Because suddenly I have a significant area in front of me that if I were to shield, would suddenly "catch" any incoming hitboxes that weren't even close to hitting me; giving me this amazing POWER SHIELD.
Furthermore, there are situations where people are naturally aiming for a maximum reach shield or they happen 'accidentally'. Take getting hit on the shield by MK's second hit of dsmash. If you stay in shield, the SECOND down smash (I know its sickening to think there's an MK that bad) will still hit your shield, but in another situation you're sitting without shield, that Dsmash whiffs and you get to punish them for a whiff. Crazy. AbUSE IT.
Power shielding is a tool of spacing. Knowing how much extra horizontal space exists that is hittable, there's the vertical alternative as well. It's known as CROUCHING. Crouching reduces our vertical height by about 60%. His head reaches about where his knees are in the shielding animation. And when you shield from a crouch, all that space above you and also in front of you still becomes your POWER SHIELD ZONE.
Walking coupled with blinking (fast shield drops to reshields, and the same thing while walking) gives you a ridiculous horizontally reaching POWER SHIELD ZONE.
For example
Walk -> shield (sliding) -> unshield (still sliding) -> a little bit of forward walking (your momentum carries over) -> reshield
is BROKEN on Marth because of his walk.
Zano
Smash Master
what's with the lightning bolt inside the shield
It's telling you that the power shield zone is gone now.
ぱみゅ
❤ ~
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Man, this game was way more detailed than one would suspect.