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  • what the hell has this show turned into

    Credit to xeternalflamebryx
    I decided to try to figure out how many Mario characters have starring roles.
    1. Mario
    2. Stanley (Donkey Kong 3, Greenhouse)
    3. Donkey Kong Jr (Donkey Kong Jr.)
    4. Wario (Wario Land and WarioWare series)
    5. Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong Country series)
    6. Diddy Kong (Donkey Kong Country 2, Diddy Kong Racing)
    7. Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country 3)
    8. Cranky Kong (Donkey Kong Circus)
    9. Yoshi (Yoshi's Island series)
    10. Toad (Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, Wario's Woods)
    11. Luigi (Mario is Missing!, Luigi's Mansion series)
    12. Peach (Super Princess Peach)
    13. Mini-Mario (Mario vs. Donkey Kong 2 and onwards)
    14. Pyoro (Pyoro)
    I was tempted to count Bowser Jr. and Goomba, but those were just side-content. The Paper Aeroplane has also not been considered due to being an inanimate object and the player's control going to the wind. Mini-Mario qualifies where Yarn Yoshi doesn't due to co-existing in-universe with the real deal, wheras there's nothing to say YY isn't the same or an alternate universe version. I am not counting promotional flash games - but if I did I know that Timber, Kiddy Kong, and Waluigi would be among the characters added.
    D
    Deleted member
    I would personally count Rabbid Mario and Rabbid Peach too not just because the Rabbids are in the title of their respective game, but also because they are the first characters you play as in the game alongside Mario himself.
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    I dunno, that comes off more as a sidekick role than a main role. Same reason Poochy didn't qualify despite being quite a major part of Poochy + Yoshi's Woolly World and Cranky Kong is listed with DK Circus instead of Donkey Kong. Mini Mario is somewhat of an outlier, but in an escort game the "Lemming" is usually what you consoder the protagonist.
    I feel Arms, as a game, is inherently incompatible with Smash. There is no possible way they could've made Min Min a good fighter design-wise, the closest I can think of is making it so her arms don't have hitboxes nor hurtboxes so her foes can slide between her hand and body for a grab, but at that point you should just put in a character with detachable limbs like Plok or Rayman instead.
    "Nintendo Kart" is honest to god one of the worst frequent gaming fan requests ever - possibly even worse than "give Mario a gun" - actually think about this for 5+ seconds.
    1. Staples like Boom Boom and Goomba have never been playable in Mario Kart and would lose their chance
    2. Families and younger players would be confused as to the absence of a Mario Kart game on whatever console this releases for
    3. Mario Kart icons like Daisy, Koopa Troopa, King Boo, and most worryingly Waluigi would likely get the shaft
    4. A majority of Nintendo's characters would look silly on a kart, and it's pretty hard to make an all-scrimblo Nintendo roster without resorting to Literal Whos - the exact thing Nintendo hypebeasts hate most.
    5. Lesser known Mario characters such as (non-Ashley) Ware employees and RPG partners will have an even lower chance of breaking into the limelight.
    6. Courses will no longer have creative liberty, instead being forced to call back specific games - that means no more Coconut Malls, Water Parks, or Dragon Driftways.
    7. It'd be especially bad for fans of characters introduced to MK in Tour, as those characters would almost certainly never see an official console release in what could come off, intentionally or otherwise, as a twisted MTX-fuelled bait & switch. Pauline and Nabbit have big fandoms especially.
    8. It would take the crossover appeal away from Smash
    I love GiT - that being said I do believe it to be the weakest main WarioWare instalment. Some microgames are pretty tough to figure out first time (Mona's boss is an example) which, although it only applies to a small amount of them, is a major detriment to a WW game. Gold had this issue too, but to a much lesser degree. The characters are also pretty imbalanced - which wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for how imbalanced they are. Master Mantis quickly renders Young Cricket irrelevant, same with Jimmy T. and Crygor respectively, and Orbulon is introduced way too early. Being forced to choose multiple characters was a great design choice, but honestly I wish the post-game "all" mode was forced instead since then the imbalance would be countered out by RNG

    The character-swapping is fine and luckily isn't too intrusive. I see it less as a homogenised (I love to use that word) gameplay style and more just a new control gimmick like touching, twisting or smoothly moving

    I also think the aesthetic (menus especially) and soundtrack lacks the edge DIY and prior had - I love the Gold and onwards WW art style but not the menu aesthetic and soundtracks which lean a little too "wacky" IMO. That being said, the callbacks are brilliant. Even though I complained earlier about Mona's monkey getting a cutesified redesign, Mona's animal buddies coming back at all is miraculous - in fact I'd say it's a blessing Wario's friends still appear at all. Nintendo could've easily swapped them out for Nabbit, King Bob-Omb, and Kamek but didn't, and in the age of the Mario Mandate we should be grateful for what we can keep.

    I really dislike how Dribble & Spitz' stage was handled, it's kinda been a problem since DIY Showcase, I much prefer the more soothing vibe of prior D&S stages that leaned more into Dribble's "gentle giant" side than "speed freak" side. Penny's stage did fill that D&S niche decenty though. If it was rainy night (which would've made sense in the context of the story) it would've really scratched that itch even if the song is more pop than any D&S song.

    I like how Wario is characterised here - he's greedy, lazy, and easy to anger but never enters true villain territory by choice - in fact, he might be a little too nice! other than refusing to go back in the game to rescue Red and Master Mantis with his employees, he doesn't really do anything morally questionable - just say stuff that's morally questionable. Wario not paying his employees isn't even brought up! (it is alluded to though) Wario (at least in Ware) is a character who's glaring flaws really enhance other characters' relationships to him - when he does something scummy they put him in his place of course, but they ultimately respect and care for him, which I find really cute - especially in the context of Wario's prior history which creates a sort of unintended 30-year-long redemption arc - while pure-good Wario is fine IMO, if you remove or, in GiT's case, downplay his greed and anger you're just left with "funny Mario" instead of "bad Mario". That being said, while most of this paragraph has been critical, I am happy with how Wario is portrayed here - I'd rather him lean too good than lean too bad. (Subspace, anyone?) Wario's an anti-hero and anti-heroes are all about balance, but Wario is a very different type of anti-hero who generally isn't explored much in gaming, less Punisher and more Mr. Krabs, so I can understand why writing him may be a struggle.

    The minecart stages were quite disappointing. I would've much prefered Jimmy T. variants or his family. That being said, I like making the variety towers part of the main story, even if it's a little redundant with the mine carts.

    Pyoro as the final boss was a great twist, I've always wanted to see him get more roles. I have to admit that it feels like the Great Developer was supposed to be Waluigi but the mandate squashed that - the way he's revealed really comes off as "OH MY GOD IT'S GONNA BE WALUIGI" as his ears are the only thing you can see other than hair, but it just turns out to be a Wario clone.

    Buddah Wario. Buddah Wario.

    GiT isn't a disappointment, in fact it's a great time, but it has some flaws future WarioWare games should squash fast, and is a casuality of the Mario Mandate in subtle ways.
    This began as a joke, but the more I think about it the more I realise: the Wii Silicone Jacket, without a remote inside, would be an incredible fighter.

    It can be scrunched, stretched and even turned inside out, it could elongate into the MotionPlus variant for a few moves, and the lack of a Wiimote inside or an official Nunchuck jacket means it can be more of a Marth or Captain Falcon than a Robin or Lucario as the definitive no-frills elastic fighter instead of using cursors or infrared beams like the Wiimote would. I've only even entertained this prospect for a day or so and it's already turned from "haha funny plastic" into "Yes. Let's do this." I haven't laughed while thinking about Wii Silicone Jacket in hours but I still want it.
    Why are Pokémon Trainer's voice lines cut off in really weird spots?
    D
    Deleted member
    It makes more sense than them complementing their Pokémon for being out for all of 2-3 seconds doing nothing. The opposite is something I miss from Brawl.
    Seeing one of my favourite 3D platformers tainted like this is kinda depressing.
    Lamperouge
    Lamperouge
    Yeah, it's honestly appalling how much they dropped the ball with what should've been a guaranteed success.

    I've been playing the PS4 version these past couple of days myself, and while I'm mostly enjoying it since the core game of Colors remains as fun as ever, the technical issues and baffling design choices (like forcing the remixed soundtrack and Tails Save) keep it from being the definitive version of Colors IMO.
    Janx_uwu
    Janx_uwu
    Yeah. Their intentions were in the right place, but this is what happens when Sega outsources a game to an unfamiliar studio and doesn't give them enough time to finish what they started.
    On the bright side of things, we've still got Origins to look forward to-but even that seems like it'll be rushed. I highly doubt they actually started working on it before the Central-seems like they just decided they'd do it on the day of and then cobbled together a bunch of Classic Sonic footage for the announcement.
    Calling it now: Wumpa League is gonna be revealed through a mini-ARG.

    The Crash teams frequent r/crashbandicoot, they're probably gonna keep hiding hints in different ActiBliz stuff (like the recent COD game with the Wumpa League sticker) and once all of them are found, Wumpa League will be revealed.
    Of course he's not a nugget!

    He's Burger King chicken fries, that's good stuff 👌👌👌
    Let's be frank here, "Rosalina is the objective best Mario character because she has a sad backstory!" is equally as superficial a take as "Waluigi is the objective best Mario character because he makes the funny noises!" (if not more so)
    • Like
    Reactions: Internal Frickface
    DrCoeloCephalo
    DrCoeloCephalo
    Waluigi's better because he sports in an immense level of technical skill and defensive prowess that are only complemented upon by his pal Wario whom excels in high levels of speed and power, allowing the two of them to excel together at both offense and defense as opposed to generic all-arounders like Mario and Luigi whom are average at everything yet excel at nothing.
    The "Genesis Does" advert was the best thing to ever happen to gaming, but the worst thing to ever happen to gaming discussion
    Wigglerman
    Wigglerman
    I miss edgy video game marketing. When companies didn't have issues poking each other directly. Was a fun time because it never felt too mean spirited. Just like "Oh, you wanna play THAT system? But OUR system does xyz! They're the LAME guys, play with the cool kids!" And then the other would clap back. Fun times.
    DrCoeloCephalo
    DrCoeloCephalo
    How? It lets you bring up valid examples of what certain games of a genre excel at that others don't.
    Wigglerman
    Wigglerman
    DrCoeloCephalo DrCoeloCephalo In general discussion was pretty petty among consumers. It was more like schoolground arguments rather than having actual conversations. It's better now when people are able to properly articulate the strengths and weaknesses of either system and their respective libraries. But I remember then kids who were Nintendo kids while I was a Sega kid were very superficial about why one system was better than the other, in part due to the marketing itself being juvenile (Though hilarious).
    Nintendo just advertised a game they're not selling
    That being said, this is the greatest platformer of all time so I'll let it pass.
    This reminds me of that Brawl mod that replaces Yoshi with a T-posing Tommy Pickles who never as much as rotates no matter what animation he's in.

    That's not a compliment, it's the highest compliment.
    If Sega were to make a crossover platform fighter, I feel the best choice for a beginner all-rounder/shoto (from a design standpoint, not marketing or in-universe) like Mario to Smash, SpongeBob to Nick, Ryu to Street Fighter, e.t.c. would be AiAi given that all the Sonic characters' unique statistic traits aren't just parts of their character but rather their entire character.

    Knuckles could potentially work but he'd have to sacrifice a lot of his power and possibly his digging, as well as downplay his gliding, while Akira would likely be too complex for most beginners. AiAi on the other hand doesn't have any canonical abilties besides "jump into a ball" so you can give him a lot of the standard shoto moves and stats without it seeming too weird (helped by the fact his tail is stubby to the point of almost being non-existant so nobody would complain about no tail attacks) - plus he already is associated with balls so there's an easy shoto projectile.
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    Didn't even think about Alex - he would absolutely fit the bill as well, possibly better. If Shadow were to be a Sonic clone or absent I'd go for AiAi so Alex could have his motorbike, while if Shadow had a unique moveset I'd go for Alex as the shoto and either not include AiAi or try to piece together a moveset based on the party games, cutscenes and SMB level elements.

    he'd have to have the lost stars "aaa" sound upon ko
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    I was thinking "is Alex too obscure/irrelevant for beginner status?" but now I think about it a lot if not a majority of this hypothetical game's playbase would be located in South America, let's be real here.
    D
    Deleted member
    There's also the fact that Alex Kidd also got a remake this year, so yeah.
    When talking about crossovers, people underestimate the amount of IPs Microsoft have at their disposal - there's much more roster potential for an Xbox platfighter than just "Master Chief and Rareware All-Stars Battle Royale" - in fact, it'd be much worse for an MS crossover to emphasise Rare given they're not really Microsoft's biggest team. Just a pirate and Fulgore would do the trick - even Banjo and Conker don't strike me as 100% necessary unless they either have a big roster or need a beginner shoto character when Doomguy, Chief and Steve don't cut it (kinda like how Kratos and Sackboy were the PSASBR mascots but PaRappa was the shoto)
    If Nick Brawl ends up being an anime fighter like people are saying, we should change the term to the more cartoon-inclusive animated fighter
    I do think Ultimate is a good competitive game (at least to watch), but for a game with this big a budget to include so little stage options for, and a few characters *cough*Min Min*cough*Hero who come off as being designed specifically to not appeal to, its most devoted players is inexcusable - especially with the garbage hazards off switch.

    It kinda feels like Sakurai and his team are running off assumptions about competitive play rather than doing the necessary research. It's good he's trying (which is better than with Brawl at least) but as someone who doesn't play competitive even I can tell that Namco can do better.
    I only really like "intentionally bad" fighting game joke characters if they're clones. A completely original moveset shouldn't be wasted on a gag.
    Nick Brawl really does seem like it'll be great both for high level play and kids' parties - while Nicktoons characters wavedashing is funny at first, it's honestly the perfect approach when it comes to a network that's claim to fame is making kids' shows that work regardless of age.
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