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Keeshu
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  • :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth is considered my "main", but I still haven't given everyone in the roster a good chance. So it'll be hard to stay on him until I do that. Been doing DLC when they come out, but now that :ultsora:Sora and :ultgunner:Doom Slayer are the last ones, it's been making me wonder who's next. So I had a thought:

    Should I focus on trying to main characters that my smash friends play until I get their characters a decent way into Elite Smash?
    :ultlittlemac:Little Mac would be the first on the list though because the most regular player "mains" him.
    :ultgnw:Mr Game & Watch would be next (and I already play an absurd amount of his other main :ultlucario:Lucario... What a weird duo main combo)
    After that going for :ultsnake:Snake because a :ultpikachu:Pikachu main friend wanted help with the matchup, and I'd never play Pikachu over :ultpichu:Pichu (even if Pika is so much easier. Pichu just makes me happier). Also, I've heard many a time that playing Snake is like playing Chess, and Chess is the other game I dedicate time to improve at. Would be nice to see how accurate of a statement it is!
    Welp, was planning on Day 1 Sora Ditto shenanigans (maybe with a little Sephiroth main causing PTSD to sora players sprinkled in).
    I guess I'll just try to make a knockoff Doom Guy and learn how to get good with him while waiting for the Doom Slayer Mii Costume to come out since that looks good. I'm going to try my hardest to try to make a playstyle with the gunner that focuses on getting up close and personal, compared to the campy playstyle they are normally known for.
    Dangit, I'm so conflicted right now. I have a tradition to play new fighters on day 1 where everyone is bad and learning together. However, I have a strong desire to give Sora mains PTSD by kicking their butts with Sephiroth since he was a super boss in Kingdom Hearts...

    Oh and that Doom guy/Doom slayer mii costume looks really good. Kinda reminds me of the collectables you get in the game lol. I hope he comes with the music. Glad Isabelle will get to see her friend again!
    Quick 3 questions:
    Do you play Sephiroth? Do you think he is easy, hard, or average in terms of difficulty when used Online?
    If you don't play Sephiroth, who do you play and what do you think about that character when played Online?
    xzx
    xzx
    I play Hero, and Sephiroth is harder to punish online. I think Sephiroth is annoying to play against online.
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    Ah great, now Deltarune Chapter 2 is out. Before I was just kinda hoping Ralsei would be in. Now after I get to play Chapter 2 it's going to be super fresh in my mind whenever they do decide to release the last DLC fighter. Then instead of being "oh well" I'll now feel crushed. Just arg!

    Time will tell though. Ralsei is the only character that could overtake :ultsephiroth: Sephiroth as a main at this point.
    Ramble:
    I adapt to whatever gameplay style a character requires, so I have no idea what the "best" playstyle would be for me. So I just go with the characters I love the most. Smash makes me love all the characters, so in the past I would try to main characters that represented a part of me/my life because I love it when people have more personal reasons to main a character. :ultbyleth::ultlucario::ultpit::ultpichu::ultridley::ultdarkpit::ultwolf::ultmetaknight:

    Then came along :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth, and he's like the embodiment of the emotional feeling I'm trying to chase by trying to get better at smash. When you get so good that most people you run into, you can just stay calm and polite while you kick their butts effortlessly because you know exactly what they are going to do while you move around swiftly with precise strong attacks. I used to spend my time mastering random games all the time, so it was common for this to happen, but I don't have the time I used to anymore, so I had to pick one game and it was Smash. Turns out fighting games are a lot more complex than I originally thought, but I'm still chasing that feeling. Unfortunately I feel like at this rate I will never be satisfied unless I can consistently 3 stock my :ultpikachu:Pikachu main friend who does go to tournaments.

    Here's the thing about Ralsei though, he's the character I've related to the most out of any video game (probably any type of media) because the way he acts around everyone. I like it when people play characters that represent who they are as a person (not everyone does this, as much as the smash community likes to portray literally everyone as a copy of their character/gameplay). So if Ralsei got in, I'd main him no matter what... though uh.. I'll be honest, if he got banned from competitive play, or generates an absurd amount of hate from friends would definitely discourage me quite a bit.


    Speculating about what Ralsei would be like in Smash
    If Ralsei does get in, I'm expecting the Tension Points (TP) mechanic to play a big part since TP is required to cast his spells in Deltarune and it's interesting. There's 3 ways to get TP
    1. Defending - Not really interested in this, but either you get it from blocking, or from a Joker's Rebel Guard/ Incineroar's Revenge esque move that lets you take reduced damage while you charge it up. If it's from blocking, it needs to be a small amount so people don't run away. With that said~
    2. Fighting - Attacking people gives you TP, so a large reason for people to not camp, especially if their opponent can charge things as well. He might be a healer, but he's gonna have to beat you up if he wants those heals.
    3. Make the opponent whiff attacks - Now this is the interesting mechanic that I want to see as I never see this type of mechanic in any other game and I don't see any other character having a mechanic like this. Just depends on how close the attack has to be. Whether it just has to be in a vague area near the person, or so close that the opponent has to make the little spark appear on your character (or maybe a bigger bonus the closer you get with the spark being a big boost?).
    Expecting him to fight mainly with his scarf. I expect him to cast some spells he has in Deltarune as well. Expecting him to be light as heck, but that's okay, because most characters I love are light as heck.
    Honestly though, I'd be surprised if we didn't get Papyrus or Kris in before Ralsei. Though Ralsei is very popular, and maybe favorite in Deltarune. Also he is an anagram and looks suspiciously like a lot of people's favorite character Asriel from Undertale, so I'm hoping he gets in.
    Vent: 575 hours of playtime (dunno if that includes training mode) and I still can't find a gosh darn main. Feeling like I won't be able to find a main just like what happened with Smash 4 X_X
    Tempted to make this a thread, but was just randomly thinking. A lot of people have suggested characters for beginners. What kind of characters do you think would make great tutor characters? The type where you show newbies the fundamentals of the game?
    Would they be the same as regular characters? Or something different? Or is this a case of "Fundamentals should carry you enough for you to swap characters on the fly when teaching people". Or "swap a character depending on the lesson being given. Like use :ultcloud:Cloud when showing how important saving a double jump is"

    First character off the top of my head would be the :ultpit::ultdarkpit:pits (more dark Pit because larger side b arm gets the point across faster than pit's tiny side b, and his projectile is more normal than pit's) because they are quite basic and have a lot of different things going on with them.
    I know Izaw often likes to go :ultike:Ike since his game plan is so blindingly basic so the person being taught can quickly understand what the character is going to do. Meanwhile the tutor can focus more on talking + teaching.
    I'm curious what you guys have to say about it.

    Other ideas:
    :ultlink: Linkis like a zoner with the projectiles, a swordy with his sword, but can get combo stuff with his nair and zair drop bombs, so you can get basic concepts of all playstyles in the game. Also he's not too hard to edgeguard to get newbies used to edgeguarding from above if you don't do anything fancy.
    :ultmarth::ultlucina::ultchrom:Lucina is similar to Ike but faster. I think aike would be less intimidating for new players.
    :ultpokemontrainerf:speedy character, zoner, and big boy. All pretty basic for their archetype. :ultpyra::ultmythra:similar, just without the projectiles they annoy lower skill players.

    Any thoughts?
    Just a random thought:
    I'm glad that :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth is the main I chose and he is top tier. Meanwhile all the other characters that tempt me to main them and sometimes play a bunch because I try to consider a "loyalty main" from time to time are all mid or low tier, making Sephiroth feel all the more OP. Other characters being :ultlucario:Lucario, :ultmetaknight:Meta Knight, and :ultridley:Ridley

    Curious if anyone else has interesting feelings about their group of most played characters. Or if a single character, how they feel about the tier placement.
    Torgo the Bear
    Torgo the Bear
    I've always found it mildly annoying that all my real mains are Ultimate newcomers.
    :ultkrool::ultpiranha::ultenderman:
    It makes it really difficult for me to return to older Smash games...
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    Very very tempted to get that Nickelodeon game. Forgot how much I love a lot of those old cartoons.


    At a glance I'd probably try to main Danny Phantom, or Zim (despite being shows I've only seen a little bit of but wanted to see more), though the whole roster looks pretty dang nice. Though pretty much any ghost character from Danny Phantom (preferably Vlad or Dark Danny), Invader Zim or Avatar would be pretty awesome since they have so many cool abilities, and awesome characters.

    Also gotta have the rest of the TMNT main characters. Donatello was my guy in the TMNT video games and I liked him the most in the TV shows. Long range, smart, purple =p Most people liked Raph as well. Also for a very long time I thought Shredder was one of the most badass characters and I just love the idea of a character that's so brutal beating up the cartoony Spongebob characters. Just like seeing Kazuya or Ridley fighting Isabelle.



    ..... Still can't believe Ren & Stimpy is in the game because of it's adult humor. Figured I'd take a look at it out of curiosity because I remembering it being a bit too much for me as a kid. Gotta say, it's still a bit too much for me to handle even today. That flippin' show is nuts I swear....... I'm so curious and want to watch more lol
    I'm gonna have to do some comparisons for who I want to pick up between the 3 fighting characters after I'm more familiar with Kazuya. Ryuken, Terry and Kazuya. At this moment though, Kazuya has a very strong case going for him.

    Pros
    Projectile that is easy to hit opponents with
    He has special grabs
    Has a reflector on Left Splits Kick (why does he have this? At least Min Min reflects in her game, Off the top of my head I don't remember there being any projectiles in Tekken)

    Cons
    Lacks a reliable projectile to help approach unlike hadouken and power wave, and is very unsafe if missed.
    Devil Fist is underwhelming when done at a distance compared to Tatsu or Burning Knuckle, but at least it leads into combos. Up close it's effective, but kinda has the "oops, forgot to take out the trash" kind of vibes.

    Things he has in common with other fighting game characters:
    Emphasis on inputs and many moves
    Many moves have intangibility on them
    Multiple shield breaks that are easy to use
    Tons of KO moves
    Crazy combos
    Crazy damage
    Heavy
    Slow and short range overall. Ken and Terry aren't nearly as bad about this though.
    Recovery that is probably going to be rather exploitable if the opponent knows when you're going to use it.

    Stuff that will make me biased towards Kazuya because of my time with other characters:
    Special grabs - Ganondorf and Ridley made me fall in love with special grabs and suicide grabs. Even if Ridley doesn't have to, and the grab that moves people with him is more like Bowser (which is one of his more fun moves anyways but I don't play him)
    Crumple + forced trip attacks - Ridley make me love crumple attacks because of his skewer. Forced tripping is kind of similar.
    Laser - I played R.O.B. for a while, his lasers are kind of fun. However I never got to use him enough to be super precise with his lasers and it's not the most exciting thing to get better at, and I don't like annoying my opponents with nearly unavoidable quick attacks (I want to give my tournament going friends a tough time, not make them hate me). So I actually really like this laser because of it's consistency and not being as spammy
    Oni Front kick - Just like Ganondorf's f-tilt. The move is just stupidly good on both characters.
    Doriyah (Ganondorf, but apparently he was saying it because of Kazuya. I like Kazuya's version more)
    Dame da ne (White suit is basically Kiryu, who does sing Dame da ne in Yakuza. This song is basically a meme in chess videos so I hear it all the time..... Song also represents how I feel about Smash a lot too lol)
    Tekken is probably the fighting game I'd want to get into if I got into a "normal" fighting game because I like it's mechanics more.
    He gets a lot of close ups in 1v1 for some reason. Though usually it's on my favorite moves anyways. His double face kick is one of my favorite moves of his

    I may end up duo maining :ultkazuya:Kazuya and :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth. Got a Angel and Devil theme going on. Sephiroth is pretty simplistic overall when it comes to inputs outside of nair combos. Also Sephiroth has speed + range that will probably take care of any of Kazuya's troublesome matchups. Really digging the idea of having one of the fighting game characters be a duo main or secondary because they keep me on my toes with my inputs which makes using any other character very easy by comparison making it easier to pick up everyone else. Time will tell though, he is a new character and he's been a blast, but whether or not he I stick with him is something that only time can tell.
    Day 7 of Ryu training :ultryu: - 1 week of Ryu complete. I will probably return to Ryu if Kazuya doesn't replace him for me. Here's how I felt on the character and the guides I used:
    First the guides then I'll say my thoughts.
    Frenzy Light's Super quick video of Bread and Butters for Ryu for quick reference
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDnUQGvbPVo

    The video I watched the most when wanting a quick reminder of what things to go for by watching top level Ryu play
    Vendetta vs Sytonix first to 10

    Various guides I looked at:
    Maketheknife's "Art of fighting" guide
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLv6_l9SQlYFgIS9XCXiRJDXBF4WhXn0Fv

    RoninX1819's "Art of Ken" guide. Not specifically for Ryu, but I did learn a few things for Ryu that helped me a bunch that the others didn't teach. However since it's more for Ken, there's quite a few things that Ryu can't do that are shown. I'll definitely use these guides if I decide to "upgrade" to Ken.
    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh5ZByultcOyiX8aa-Cjl_Rhk9YKaGo8P


    Vendetta's Ultimate Ryu guide - Who better to learn from than the best Ryu player?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPiP51BOp9E


    I gotta say I really loved playing the character. No where near as intimidating as I was expecting them to be. At first I realized how terrible I was at actually knowing where my analog stick was so there was a lot of mis-inputs in the beginning. Still not the greatest after 1 week, but it's decent at least now. However, this should help tremendously with combos on other characters.
    Also I wasn't expecting Ryu to be so ground focused, since he actually has some nice aerials unlike Little Mac. So he's probably going to become my go-to character when I start slacking on my ground game a bit. Unless when I go train with :ultkazuya:Kazuya and :ult_terry:Terry later on and they become a better fit for me for that.


    Playing Ryu makes me really realize just how wacky a lot of characters in the roster are. Gets a little annoying and makes me just say "Arg, why can't you play the game normally so I can play neutral properly!?" which I thought was funny because I never had that feeling when playing other characters nearly as much as when I play Ryu.

    I had no idea that Ryu's hadouken is so incredibly versatile, and I've fallen in love with it. It losing to almost everything is a little annoying though.

    I didn't realize just how many anti-air options Ryu has, it's pretty nuts. Up tilts, up airs, Heavy jab and even up smash all do decent jobs at keeping people from jumping in on you. Amuses me to beat out even the safest of down airs using Ryu because the hitboxes are so huge alongside his intangibility.

    Focus Strike is really addicting to use. Since I often get my wins through reading the opponent, Focus strike is like a free KO (If I stop flippin down tilting and actually do the Shoryuken input I want). However, I feel like at higher levels, it leaves you open so long that you're likely to die if you miss. I still have to get used to canceling it more though. Since I'm not used to the input of double tapping to get out of it, it's such a mental commitment that it's not worth doing, similar to walking. However I could see it being amazing if I got over that mental block.

    Tatsu is such a strange anti-projectile move because I was not expecting there to be intangibility. Led to me KOing Samus and Link players a lot since I can just Tatsu right through their projectiles and hit them while they are in end lag or from them panicing.

    I'm still struggling with combos, but at least it made me feel nice to land down air into down air reliably often, especially since it looks so cool. Also down tilts into hadouken also feels nice. I'm sure with time I could do other combos that are nice. Sometimes he feels like he flows so well because sometimes I feel like I'm just escorting my opponent across the stage doing like 60% damage. I'm new to Ryu so it didn't happen every match, but knowing what it feels like is addicting. To be honest, playing :ultinklingboy:Inkling before playing Ryu helped me thirsty for getting combos because I landed a 70% combo (I doubt it was true) on a friend and I was like "what is this power?". Of course I consistently did a lot of other higher damage combos with Inkling as well, that character is nuts. Anyways, Ryu is known for consistently doing this kind of power, I was rather motivated to play Ryu and I was not disappointed. Though I definitely need to get better to really enjoy the benefits of Ryu.

    I feel playing Ryu will make me a much better player faster than any other character I've played in Ultimate for any decent amount of time so far. He targets my weakness of being bad at inputs and control over my characters in general, but doesn't overwhelming me with insanely fast speed like :ultpichu:Pichu or :ultsheik: Sheik. That is also the reason why I picked him over Ken to start off with (also I like projectiles, and Ryu has more hadouken options).
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    Wigglerman
    Wigglerman
    I've been having a lot of fun with Ryu and I truly believe he's being slept on in Ultimate. I don't think he's super tier but I feel his placement is still a bit too low. He can be a REALLY difficult character to get in on safely and can zone deceptively well with Hadoukens at varied speeds to mess with people as well as the red fireball. Also just crouch 'jab' into Tatsu as a super basic and reliable kill confirm catches a lot of people off guard even now.
    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    I feel like he struggles with swords a lot, sure he can focus strike the hits, but generally sword characters are going to space it so the focus strike can't hit them anyways. Projectiles can usually be spammed faster by opponents and just about anything beats out hadouken. Ryu's recovery is decent, but very easily exploitable.

    For me, these are the characters (not ordered) that I feel like would be a problem for Ryu. :ultjoker::ultpikachu::ultpyra::ultsephiroth::ultcloud::ultshulk::ultsheik::ultzss::ultyounglink::ulttoonlink::ultlink::ultwolf::ultfox::ultdiddy::ultinkling::ultminmin:ultpalutena::ultrob: Maybe I'm feeling generous today because I'm pretty sure he has troubles with more. However half of these characters are pretty common.
    I still think he's high tier though. Someone that can just toss out quick tilts with decent range, and just nuke people off of that, combined with his specials, and just being more flexible than some characters, he's always going to be scary.
    Training with Ryu day 5+6 Slowing it down :ultryu:
    Playing around 2 million GSP is weird. Feels like everyone down here is just trying to learn how to play their characters so they aren't using their full kits, or don't know how to use it well. It's very strange because you can tell when they get upset or didn't like that you won too fast, they'll resort to the easy tricks to win that don't require much time into a character to pull off. Other people it just feels like they are depressed where they slowly start pressing fewer and fewer buttons, until they just stop moving altogether and let you nudge them off a cliff.

    I will say, you're definitely not confident in your inputs if you feel overwhelmed by :ultdoc:Doctor Mario's speed. That pill is so annoying and it's like someone going up to you and flicking your head. It doesn't hurt, but dang. Anytime I focus on doing tilts and shielding while walking to do bait and punish type stuff, I'm too slow to react to projectiles.
    :ultjigglypuff:Jigglypuff coming in as my favorite opponent today, and is basically tied with Greninja for my favorite matchup with Ryu at the moment. I just love the strong emphasis on neutral since Ryu can't really combo Jigglypuff due to being so tiny and floaty that she falls out of everything, and the Jigglypuff wasn't wall of paining me off the stage at this point. Jigglypuff was just the right speed for me to get use out of all my tilts so I understand my tilts better. Though I keep getting caught off-guard by the proximity tilts which usually leads to the opponent punishing me for using them since they react faster than I do.

    Walking has been very scary for me because I'm used to jumping/running all the time with every character, and I feel like whenever I walk my brain goes into a bit of tunnel vision trying to use walking, so I react a bit slower. :ultlittlemac:Little mac was the original character I used to force me to stay on the ground when I notice I'm not using my grounded options enough on other characters, :ultryu:Ryu might become the new character for that role. Especially since playing him makes me very aware of the position of my left stick.

    I thought there was more time to play Ryu before :ultkazuya:Kazuya comes out, so I'll probably play Ryu for one last day and just prepare everything else outside of smash so I can spend some quality time with Kazuya. I'll probably play Ryu one last time on Thursday so I can say I at least played 1 week of Ryu, and say my thoughts on playing him for a week. Though at this moment, I'm just going to say, he's not as hard as I thought he was going to be. I'm just mostly unconfident as heck, but that can be removed with just a bit more practice. I look forward to comparing :ult_terry:Terry, Kazuya, and Ryu/Ken when I get done training with Kazuya and Terry next. I'll probably use one of these characters to improve my ground game. My first impression of Terry is that he's pretty easy, but that was mostly day 1 Terry stuff and more casual focused matches, so I'll have to see what he's like to use him properly.
    Day 3+4 of training with Ryu. It's rough :ultryu:
    The limited jump arc that Ryu has is starting to get to me since it really feels like every jump is such a large commitment that everyone can see what you are doing looong before you ever do it. I did kinda just realized I've been jumping too much out of panic because I kept losing so hard though (I blame that on my :4metaknight:Meta Knight when I was picking him up. His multi jumps make him nearly untouchable by a lot of characters so I sometimes revert back to that when I get overwhelmed). I just feel like on the ground I try so hard to do the footsies thing that I just kind get punched for standing around.

    Maybe it's just because my last few matches were against a ZSS, but his slow speed is starting to bother me a bit too. Whether it people using speed at an unreactable distance, or walling me out with projectiles. I feel like I wouldn't be bothered by this if I knew the combos though. It still feels like everyone is terrified of being close to you at all times and I like that, just I don't have the combos for them to justify the fear yet.
    Now down in the 2 million GSP area. He is now my new lowest character in quickplay. The other one was :ultpichu: Pichu around 3million gsp because they are also a very combo heavy character I struggle to play. It's very demoralizing playing these characters because it makes me question how much I was being carried by my other characters. Especially when some people at this low of GSP feel like they are just as good as people I meet in Elite Smash.

    I feel like I'm constantly struggling with myself mentally trying to play Ryu. One side of me just wants to repeatedly punish the opponent with the quicker strong option since I always start winning right away when I start playing Ryu like that. However that's me using Ryu like a sword character. I just have a lot more experience with sword characters, but that's not what makes Ryu strong. The lack of experience is why I'm trying Ryu out after all. So I know how a Ryu player thinks more and see if there's anything I can slap onto my other characters in terms of mentality.
    The other side of me is trying to improve with his combo games so I can get better at playing him. After all his combo game is insane. It's just I do them in the training mode for a while, then I just can't pull it off in combat because the situation never presents itself because of whatever character/playstyle the opponent has. Then when I practice other combos, I kinda forget the previous combos I did, and a new set of character/playstyles make it so the new combos don't show up. So it kinda feels like I'm playing rock paper scissors with the combos I'm learning. I'm sure that overtime the combos will just stick with you so it's not a problem, but until then it's just a bit frustrating because it'd be nice to have at least one reliable combo.

    Lastly, trying not to hadouken spam too much because I hate making people mad (I know it's inevitable though cause that's how fighting games are). It's just really really easy to hit on people. I also keep accidentally holding the button too long so I can't get into range to follow up on it.

    Gotta say I like saying these little status updates on how the Ryu progress is going. It's a nice vent session, and it helps me take a step back and realize what's happening with my Ryu gameplay. Even if I decide to stop posting it in my status on Smashboards, I will probably start making text documents talking about this stuff in the future for other characters so I don't run in circles when trying to get better at some characters.
    Day 2 learning Ryu :ultryu:
    I cannot tell you the pain, to almost never mis-input the Shoryuken on the first day, then today my second chance to play Ryu, and I never landed a single Shoryuken on the opponent and struggled to input it at all. Is this the pain that all shoto players must go through while improving with them?

    So many focus attacks..... Just leading into down tilt instead of Shoryuken KO. So disheartening. Lost so many games from this because I can't react fast enough to follow up on a down tilt.


    Down air is much easier to hit on people than expected though! Feels a bit telegraphed though. I find it funny, the most recurring player I fought today was a Bayonetta who also struggled to do their character's combos. The one time I decided to not go for the down air, they tried to witch time instead of like the 50 other times I hit them with it.
    End of first day trying to play Ryu. Do people hate fighting Ryu or something? Or are people so disgusting with my horrible Ryu that struggles to combo they feel like they can't waste their time with me? Or is it a crime to be purple Ryu? Literally every match I went into and people would just leave once they saw my Ryu.

    Started getting a feel for it by the end of the day. Favorite matchup that I had today was vs Greninja, they just feel similar in some way, just Greninja is much faster. I lost every match as expected, but all matches were shockingly close. Though I feel part of that is that everyone plays so terrified of you that it makes it much easier to predict them because everyone has seen the crazy combos Ryuken can do. I can only imagine how crazy Ryu will become once I start learning how to do more of his combos.

    Still learning all the launch angles and his bread and butters. Up air, up smash, f-tilt, (why the huge hitboxes and invuln on limbs!?) and his specials carried me through the first day. Though I gotta say, Ryu is definitely forcing me to be more aware of my left stick positioning. Also with walking back and forth I realized it's easy to misinput hadoken or tatsu when you want the other one often. Also it's very weird to not just use the c-stick for tilts since I just can't get light tilts to come out with that. C-stick is what allowed me to start doing tilts with many characters in the cast, and lack of tilts was a huge barrier into competitive play for a long time for me.

    Probably going to pick up Ryu as a secondary, at least until Kazuya is out. He's making me think about my inputs much more and it's been hard to not zone out when playing other characters. So he might get me over the input learning cliff I've been trying to get over.
    Goomboi
    Goomboi
    I was also trying out the shotos and man do they feel powerful even if I can't do anything with them, just like peach/daisy.
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    That's it! I'm gonna pick up :ultryu:Ryu until :ultkazuya:Kazuya comes out.

    Been watching fighting game stuffs on youtube and twitch for the past half year. Slowly wanting to play the fighting game characters more and more. Kazuya looks like he could be interesting because I love options and he seems to have a lot of them. I think I'll warm up with Ryu first. I did try Ryu a month ago and he's no where near as hard as I originally thought he was. Doing Ryu 'cuz Kazuya rival apparently, also he seems to be more my style. Though I definitely will play :ultken:Ken when I feel confident with Ryu since Ken seems like he has a much easier time getting in, but has a few extra combo options so I feel Ryu will make me improve faster with the focus on the basics. I didn't forget about :ult_terry:Terry, he just feels like easy mode compared to Ryuken in the short time I played him (also :ultlucario:Lucario got me to love comeback mechanics, with :ultganondorf:Ganondorf and :ulthero2:Hero making me love huge stupidly huge powerful attacks, so I'll probably favor Terry in the end anyways). Doing combos is my weakest area, so this'll be a nice chance to improve on that.

    Wish me luck!
    Lately I've been thinking about picking up one of the more traditional fighters in the Smash roster because I watch a lot of normal fighting game content on youtube in the past half year. Trying to pick between Ryu, Ken, and Terry. Now we have yet another fighter. It's not exactly making the decision easy.
    I was on the hype train for Ridley for years and he got in.
    I wanted Sephiroth ever since Melee, but assumed it would never become a reality.
    Here's hoping for a third miracle and we get Ralsei in.
    Happy pride month peoples!


    Question is who should I play? Wolf? Shirtless Sephiroth? Or Sonic so I can follow my rainbow? :3
    I know it's unlikely, but I'm really hoping Ralsei gets announced at E3. I would main him instantly. He's a popular character, and the TP mechanic where you charge up a bar for special attacks by making the opponent barely whiff you is just interesting. I doubt he'd get to heal, even if in order to heal he has to risk taking like 10x the damage or death in order multiple times in order to be able to heal, especially since I'd imagine him being light because ya know, squishy mage healer after all.

    However, Kris would probably get in first, since he represents the TP mechanic better and is the protagonist of Deltarune. I'd be okay with him but I wouldn't be crazy hype about him like Ralsei. Then again, Sans got in as a mii costume before Frisk has any reference to him added, so there's hope. Also Sakurai and Toby may have had more talks after that as well. It's not impossible, but unlikely because there are other characters they have to compete with.
    Ridley64
    Ridley64
    Suddenly I'm rooting for him to.
    Torgo the Bear
    Torgo the Bear
    I would die happy if I got an officially Smashified version of the Rivals of Aether Kris mod.

    But Ralsei would be incredible too.
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    I'm getting the feeling that I should main Sephiroth because he probably won't return in Smash 6 like Meta Knight, Lucario and a bunch of others. That way I don't ruin my gameplay with Meta Knight/Lucario when I return to Ultimate since I'd probably want to play them like their Smash 6 selves.
    Anyone else get this feeling? Is it bad or good to think this way?
    Just venting:
    Blarg. Why do I even bother trying to improve and get all my characters into Elite Smash when all my friends are at the skill level where down+B with Kirby is their best strategy. I could stop playing Smash for the rest of my life and still not break a sweat if I fought them if they play like that X_X
    Ben Holt
    Ben Holt
    You could play me. 😗
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    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    Sure, I dunno where I should add you, or if you're in some smash discord. I'm in the Sephiroth, Lucario, Meta Knight, and Pichu discords right now. Though I kind of go in and out of some others as well since I can play most characters decently and lately I've been thinking about thoroughly learning the few characters I haven't practiced with yet.
    I could crush 95% of the people I met in For Glory in Smash 4, and I am slowly getting more and more characters in Elite Smash so I am pretty decent at the game. However, I'm not insanely good because I struggle with inputs and the harder combos, which limits my options a lot. I can't even reliably short hop fast fall in matches.
    Ben Holt
    Ben Holt
    I'm on the SmashBoards Discord as BenTheDemon.
    My Switch Friend Code is on my profile.
    Gotta say. When Steve first got in Smash I hated him (not the announcement, I kinda expected one of the largest gaming icons to get in the game when he's probably more recognizable than any of the other 3rd parties). Some people were spamming certain options and not doing anything creative with him. Also the idea of a character focused around just running away and camping was annoying.

    Now that it's been a while I'm starting to like him more since he doesn't camp for the entire match and people are doing more interesting combos. I find that he can be an interesting character. If I wasn't biased towards other characters and was working solely off of gameplay, he'd be up there for top picks for a main because of the stuff he can do. Though if I did that, he'd be in competition with Ice Climbers since they overlap a bit, who are also short range and all about the unique crazy combos.
    Usually language doesn't bother me. However I still can't get over Marth speaking english, and Sephiroth speaking Japanese. They feel like completely different characters compared to their normal voices.
    link2702
    link2702
    Marth in english is still the weirdest thing to me, him and roy. I really wish we had an option to have certain characters that have spoken voice lines, be one voice or the other and switch it without switching the whole games language setting. I'd love to have the option to let marth and roy have their japanese voices, and have the Wii Fit trainers have their other english accents since each time I hear the ones they have in Poppt1 or little z's videos, I wish we could use theirs. To me it'd only be a good thing to give us these options to toggle what language(or accent) characters that actually speak use. Another would be Ryu and Ken. While I do like their English VA's just fine, it'd certainly be neat to switch to their japanese ones so I could hear them scream SHORYUKEN in the original voices.
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    Played too much smash lately, so gonna ramble about my time before I go on a break to catch up with non-smash stuff. For anyone curious about my Elite Smash characters:
    I finally got Ridley in Smash. Gotta say it made me realize just how many people are playing Sephiroth. I'm used to outranging people with Ridley. I can't do that against Sephiroth, so there was a lot of intense mind games going on.

    So now I have 8 characters currently in Elite Smash in order from first to last.
    :ultdarkpit::ultswordfighter::ultsephiroth::ultkrool::ultinklingboy::ultbowser::ultdk::ultridley:
    Trying to use Elite Smash as a gauge on who I want to main so I can get better since I have to use a character decently to get in Elite Smash. I have a bunch of characters that are just a match or two away from Elite Smash trying to learn them. Belmonts were the most shocking because I'm used to seeing people spam projectiles with them, and playing them made me realize just how frequently they use the whip. At that point it felt like playing Sephiroth, just Belmonts can angle their fair/bair, but not their ftilt, which is reverse from Sephy.

    I'll be honest I only played K Rool, Bowser, and DK because they were simple characters (I'm bad at combos) and I was addicted to getting characters into Elite Smash. Fun characters, though :ultridley:Ridley is the only big boy I could play competitively. Though Sephiroth and Ridley overlap a lot, and I'm inclined to pick Sephiroth over Ridley since his tilts and fair feel safer... Also I keep command grabbing and attempting skewer when I probably shouldn't and people should've punished me a lot more instead of running away.

    It's hard to decide between :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth and :ultinklingboy:Inkling for my favorite of the 8. Love Sephiroth's emphasis on hard reads while still being able to poke and stuff quite safely. I love Inkling because they have a nice balance between using projectiles, and just getting up in the opponent's face for sweet combos and making them panic since they have Ink on them.

    :ultswordfighter:Mii Swordsman I got into Elite Smash kinda as a joke pretending to be Sephiroth (with 1321) after his announcement until Sephiroth got in. So I didn't get to play with the Chakrams, and that's a big deal. Mii Swordsman actually feels pretty good to play.

    :ultdarkpit:Dark Pit still feels like the most "honest" character in the roster for me. At this point he kinda feels like a mini Winged Sephiroth. So I'll probably stick with Sephiroth at this point. Sephiroth just outclasses so many characters for me. Never thought a character I obsessed over in my Melee days that I thought was impossible for many reasons would get in.


    I plan to get more characters into Elite Smash. Though most of the 3 ones I'm considering to main the most about are significantly harder to play.
    :ultpichu::ultmetaknight::ultlucario:
    Then there's a few more that I care about a lot that I may main but probably aren't so hard. They'll probably up next for trying to get into Elite Smash.
    :ultsonic::ultwolf::ultyoshi::ultrob::ultlink::ulttoonlink:
    My gosh. I got a good amount of sleep last night and got 4 characters into Elite Smash today pretty quickly (:ultinklingboy::ultsephiroth::ultbowser::ultdk:)... It's almost as if getting a proper amount of sleep improves your reaction time and decision making or something. Stay healthy guys!
    Internal Frickface
    Internal Frickface
    beat all your peers in tournaments with the power of your healthy sleep schedule
    RealPokeFan11
    RealPokeFan11
    If only my sleep schedule was healthy. I've been getting a ****ty night's sleep for almost 2 weeks now. I go through phases of bad sleep every once in a while. I gotta love having anxiety!
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    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    Anxiety, as in thoughts keeping you up at night? I have a story about that happening for me:
    Everyday for most of my life until I got VR and tried doing a social game because I was tired of anxiety ruling my life. The game forced me to not do anything since there's no goals in it other than talk to people, but my anxiety was so bad that I couldn't go to places with people in them sometimes. So because of this sometimes I'd just be in some worlds just relaxing until I had the courage to go talk to people. So basically for the first time in my life I was forced to actually relax, and let my mind relax. I accidentally fell asleep a few times, figured I'd sleep on purpose and after sleeping in VR enough times I was able to be calm and relaxed enough to sleep rather quickly in real life. I think it's the lack of interruptions from people, and there isn't something in the room to distract me and try to do some other project. Along with some worlds in the game were so relaxing that it just put me to sleep, especially worlds with rain and rumbling thunder. Overtime it became easier to fall asleep in VR than in real life (unless I had a headache, because headache + heavy headset on the head = not fun). I wouldn't recommend sleeping in VR for most people though, but I don't really wanna list the reasons why, and the many tips to help sleep in VR right now cause that's beside the point I was trying to make.
    There's a reason why a lot of people say you should do a nightly routine before bed. It help calms the mind for you to go to sleep. Try to keep your bedroom clean, and free of distractions so you don't think about them as you fall asleep. People often keep themselves too busy to relax, and a lot of people have their phones with them as they get distracted by watching videos or texting as they try to go to sleep.
    Hopefully it all goes well! Sleep does a lot more than just make you better at games. Helps you combat any sort of mental illness you have, and your body won't be so exhausted so you can do other things better and faster.
    Just felt the need to say that since sleep has always been my biggest enemy throughout life. After regularly skipping 3 days of sleep at a time during one year... let's just say I bother my friends to get sleep all the time because it can get serious if you make it a habit until you can't control it if you stay up too late too often.
    How many hours did it take for you guys to sit down and try to main a character?

    Storytime in spoiler for the curious on my progress on trying to find main characters:
    I've been having a massive character crisis lately as per usual and the whole character archetypes thing has been making it much easier to narrow down who I play. I was already thinking of this a little bit because of Sephiroth basically outclassing all normal swordies for me. Though the archetype videos that have been going on lately have been making me try to take it a bit further and select a single character from each archetype, and currently I'm basing it off of this little playstyle chart as a really quick estimation:


    So I don't talk about literally every character in the roster, I'll go with a few rules I've made for myself that removes most characters:
    1. First of all, my goal is to get good to do more awesome crap, I'm not really going to tournaments for many reasons. So characters that have mechanics that have a huge emphasis on making the opponent angry compared to other characters gotta go. So that removes :ultisabelle::ultlucas::ultness::ultluigi::ultmegaman::ultminmin:ultvillager::ultgunner::ultolimar: Kinda stinks because I do kinda wanna use Isabelle, Mii Gunner, Mega Man and Olimar. I have a hard time playing knowing I'm making someone's day worse, and yes I know literally every character does this, but these ones seem to do it more often.
    2. 4 characters I don't want to use. :ultwario::ultkrool::ultdk::ultpeach: First 3 because I don't want to seem like a Bully (and KRool + DK just make me feel like I've turned my brain off with their gameplay). Wario seems to have an emphasis on running away because of his waft. Peach because while I don't mind girly characters, Peach just turns it up to the maximum and I can't handle it, also I hear she breaks people's hands (with her inputs)
    3. Characters that are better off left as being casual for me due to either they force me into a casual mindset, or they are too simple to be turned into a main:
    :ultfalcon::ultgnw::ultpokemontrainer::ultpiranha::ultdarkpit::ultdarksamus::ultrichter::ultchrom::ultdaisy::ulticeclimbers::ulthero2::ultganondorf::ultincineroar::ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultlittlemac::ultkingdedede::ultzelda::ultpalutena:
    4. If I don't have a strong attachment, that makes it hard to stick with a character. This is a bit unfair to some characters though, since I don't think many people would play Roy or Game & Watch because of loving their origins for example. Gameplay from all these characters always gives me a fun time.
    :ultrobin::ultroy::ultsheik::ultryu::ultken::ultsnake::ultbanjokazooie::ultduckhunt::ultpacman::ultjigglypuff::ultgreninja::ultzss::ultbrawler::ultbayonetta::ultdoc::ultmario::ultswordfighter::ultsteve::ultdiddy::ultwiifittrainerm::ultrosalina::ultfalco::ultmewtwo::ultpikachu::ultike::ultcloud::ultshulk::ultcorrin::ultlucina::ultchrom::ultpyra:
    With that out of the way I've basically narrowed it down to these characters in each archetype:
    (half) Grappler: :ultridley:Ridley. He's the only one near this category that I can play competitively. He also is my favorite of the big-bodies. He can surprisingly play a lot like :ultmarth:Marth who I mained in Melee, I realized this once I fought perhaps the best Marth main I've encountered and our neutral was rather similar at times. (funnily enough I ended up winning a lot because I would do intentionally dumb stuff because I knew it would work since he always played optimally, never thinking outside the box). I was shocked to look up how similar their air movement is, and how a lot of their moves fulfill the same purposes, generally Ridley being slightly slower, but more forgiving with tippers due to how huge he is, but Marth is better at microspacing due to best walk speed. Space Pirate Rush > Shield Breaker, especially since I play Sephy too. Anything else is apples to oranges, and I prefer Ridley's apples. Even if I like Marth's orange dair spike, and dolphin slash being more reliable to recover with and can up+B OoS.

    Footsies: :ultmetaknight: I've been taking a break from him to improve at the game, but I will go back to Meta Knight. I always feel like a badass playing him, and people often praise and request to fight my Meta Knight more than any other character. He benefits from general tech, but he does not play in a way to naturally make you use general tech like most characters. So playing other characters to improve with naturally until I can get to a level where I can use Meta Knight properly.

    Turtle: :ultsephiroth:Chart isn't updated for Pythra + Sephiroth but I assume Sephy is a Turtle due walling people out with his massive range and projectiles. I may not have played FF7, but I've seen enough cutscenes of him. Also in my Melee days I was obsessed with Sephiroth for a while because he looked so "badass". Got him into Elite Smash on day 1, and he's just one of the easier characters for me to just kick butt with. Optimizing him is going to be hard though. Nair combos and Shadow flare give me a lot of trouble.

    Hit & Run - :ultsonic: I play a particularly aggressive Sonic, but even doing that I was just 1 match away from Elite Smash on my first day playing him, despite not training with him. I like Sonic's "it doesn't matter" attitude, and if I was forced to have a theme from Smash to play to hype me up "Open your heart" would probably be the song. So I can easily stick with him for a main... With that said, I could see myself dropping him if Shadow got in a future Smash game.

    Mix-Up - :ultwolf:Wolf is just stupidly easy, and I do love his character. Blaster is just a bit too reliable (but I haven't played him since that nerf). However the blaster does help prevent me from getting tilted, especially if someone is trying to tilt me. My biggest concern is that he may teach bad habbits since everything he can do everything and do it better than most characters.

    All-around - :ultlucario:Lucario needs general tech to be good to even function since he's so underwhelming in this game compared to most characters so he forces me to improve. Love the character because the movie hit me hard so there will always be character loyalty for him. He also doesn't have BS or auto-pilot combos like Mario. I feel like Pits are the only characters more "honest" than Lucario since his Aura isn't insane like previous games. Playing Lucario often improves my game with all other characters due to how difficult he is to play. Takes a specific kind of person to play Lucario.
    :ultyoshi:I love Yoshi, but stuff always keeps happening to prevent me from giving him a good shot. I gotta train with him a little to know whether or not to totally remove him from my potential mains/secondaries. However I can't imagine Yoshi replacing Lucario, especially since I hear complaints about how he nairs constantly, eggs being annoying, and I personally dislike mechanics that require mashing like being in an egg.

    Trapper and Rushdown I have significantly more troubles narrowing it down though.
    Trapper: :ulttoonlink::ultyounglink::ultlink::ultrob:Links, R.O.B. - I like playing all the trappers as their gameplay is unique, interesting and I love seeing projectiles everywhere, but the problem is I don't care too much about any of them outside of smash which is a bit of a problem for sticking with them. However when I look at these characters, it makes me want to remove that rule.
    BOTW Link I love a lot, however his bomb recovery and zair drop combos are very intimidating and I know I have to learn it eventually, and he's probably the slowest character that I would consider maining (R.O.B. doesn't feel slow because of his projectiles, tilts, fair and uair).
    Young Link is like a smaller, faster Smash 4 Link, so he is pretty fun but he almost feels spammy at times because everything he does is so fast that it feels like there's no commitment.
    So I feel like Toon Link might be a nice in-between but with a stronger emphasis on projectiles. Only problem is that Toon's dair and nair aren't as good, and they are incredibly useful for the other Links. Also I've probably put more time into Wind Waker than BOTW, Ocarina, and Majora's Mask put together so I might be a bit more biased to play him.
    R.O.B. is just an easy character to play, and it feels like you can get creative with him at times, also I feel like probably one of the only players that actually likes R.O.B. outside of smash since I grew up with him just watching me play video games. I feel he'd be fun to optimize stuff with.
    Then just about every other trapper has a story, but I don't care about them much. :ultsnake:Snake is the most likely though since he seems to take the trapper archetype to the extreme since he has essentially 3 traps on the screen almost all the time. Due to 2 grenades + c4. Izaw's Link vs Calzorz's Snake matches in Brawl is what got me into playing Smash more competitively. Just so much happening, so many mind games, I love it.

    Rushdown - Now I've always been intimidated by rushdown characters because they are so combo intensive that I may not see why they are so good because I'm too bad. So it's hard to narrow them down.
    Currently I'm playing :ultpichu:Pichu because he's like the opposite of Sephiroth, and also seems to cover his bad matchups quite well. :ultpikachu:Pikachu is easier gameplay-wise at a glance because of his range, and no self-harm. However I get bored with Pikachu, unlike Pichu, so Pichu forces me to pay attention all the time since he's so light, small, and fast. Also Pichu just makes me happy whenever I play him. Pichu is one of my worst characters right now since I'm used to abusive long range and/or projectiles to attack opponents, and I'm not used to crazy combos. So I'm struggling around 3 million gsp, however I feel like he's forcing me to make better decisions and I feel like my other characters have been improving because of my time with Pichu. Also I can easily see Pichu becoming one of my best characters because of how insanely powerful he can get if you know what to do.
    :ultjoker:Joker feels as if someone reached into my brain, and took out what I'd make for a character, then make a few changes, then add on the arsene mechanic. I looked into Persona 5 afterwards and I love the character even more. So Joker is a strong possibility for a main despite never playing their game (I will if it comes to switch). Only problem I have with him is that he looks like a regular anime guy, but at least his outfit makes up for that a bit, and I'm not sure if stuff happens later to make me dislike him, whether from his game or smash gameplay. I've definitely fought Joker a bazillion times and I don't see anything bad about him as long as people don't gun camp when I'm a slow character.
    :ultinklingboy: Inkling is fast, and has projectiles, and I love Splatoon a lot. However I do hear talks about how they are bair spam the character, but I have to test them out more.
    Lastly there's :ultfox:Fox. While I don't care about him as a character that much, he is the reason why I got into Smash and Nintendo as a whole because at the time I was like "how in the world is there a character so cool!?". Though Brawl onwards, and actually looking into his games he lost all that "cool" factor. However his gameplay still stands up, and he feels amazing.

    I'm surprised I've finally managed to narrow it down this much, but it's still going to be hard.
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    S
    StoicPhantom
    Joker Nair has 15 active frames, autocancels, and is -5 on shield. It is completely safe with proper spacing in every context including parry. Study MKleo's Joker to see what I mean, but this move is really obnoxious to deal with. Even if you don't get the hit you are always in a position to follow with another move on reaction to your opponent's reaction to Joker's Nair.

    If you are set on playing a character that isn't "tilting" then you'll have to remove Yoshi, Sonic, Link, and Rob. Those characters are pretty universally disliked for spamming or campy play. I'd also remove Ridley and Lucario because they are easily exploitable or not that good in general. I'd also avoid Pichu and MK if burnout is an issue as these characters are really difficult to play in this game.

    Wolf, Sephiroth, and Inkling are probably the ones I would be looking at. Inkling is really hard to play at higher levels, but if you aren't worried about tournament play then this character will do cool stuff for you. Wolf is pretty basic and IMO rather boring, but you can do pretty much anything with him. Sephiroth would probably be almost everything you are looking for, but he's not easy to play.

    But as I said before, go with the one that is both the most natural to you and the one you like the most.
    S
    StoicPhantom
    Oh, and don't worry about Inkling being Bair spam or whatever. Every single character in this game is __ spam the character. It's just how this game is built and you don't really want to spam Bair with Inkling outside of really high percents anyways.
    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    I could see how some people get annoyed by joker's nair. However I've played enough Ganondorf + Ridley to not be bothered by such things. Though I could never main Ganondorf. A thing about Ridley and Lucario, sure they can be exploitable, but if they manage to be clever enough to not be exploited, then they come back in a very strong way. High aura Lucario is the most fun thing in Smash if you somehow manage to get it. My normal Ridley experience against a good player is I 3 stock them for a few matches, then they 3 stock me a bit, then I go back to 3 stocking them. Matches with Ridley feel like they are very strong on the mental game. These may seem like rare things, but I kind of want to make them more frequent, so I'd have to get better with them to do that.

    Yoshi, Sonic, Link, and R.O.B. I will probably cut out. I feel like it's just that people hate them because of how people usually play them. However I haven't used them much in Ultimate. I just need to play them a tad bit more and confirm so I don't decide to be all "what could have been?" later on.

    Pichu and Meta Knight are hard, but they always feel fun to play. I just struggle with their combos. Meta Knight's combos are a bit harder though despite it almost always being uair/dair combos. Pichu's combos are insanely forgiving by comparison. With that said, Pichu is the only character that sits around 3 million gsp due to failing to activate the second teleport and being shocked that something actually hits me. Gotta say, playing Pichu makes me look up hit boxes after playing and make me go "wait really?" more than any other character. Which probably helps me remember hitboxes at least lol.

    Saying this vaguely, but what I like in Lucario's gameplay, is pretty much carried over to Wolf when compared to these other characters. However Wolf loses high aura fun to get top tier privilege. It'll take a lot of self control to not just do what works, which leads to me turning my brain off. I originally stopped playing Wolf because blaster was too strong, it was not hard to just blaster into fair or forward tilt until KO% with ease. So after I banned myself from blaster, it got more interesting and I got much better with Wolf. However Blaster was still ridiculous, and it made me realize all his moves are ridiculously good for no reason. Fearing bad habits would spawn, I took a break. I could go back to him now, now that I know what to expect.


    Inkling I've been looking into more in-depth lately. I've always like the idea of being fast + projectiles. I've grown to love the ink mechanic. Need to experiment with them more. Their combo game confuses me, so the next time I try them out I'm going to have to look at some guides. The combos I see pros do look very fun, but I seem to lack the knowledge to recreate them.

    Sephiroth is looking like the one to be the main. He came pretty easy to me and I got into Elite Smash immediately with him. I just have troubles with landing fair, nair combos, and shadow flare usage, all of which can be overcome by just playing him a bit more. Though I still have my doubts. Nothing huge, but it's a lot of little tiny things, and tiny things do build up overtime. Question is with the tiny things become too much, or will I just get used to it?


    I can't tell which one I like the most. They all make me so happy and happy in different ways that it's hard to decide. They all felt natural to play even on day 1 except for Meta Knight and Lucario, however at the time I tried to push through and make them my mains so now they feel natural as well since I understand them.... Though Ridley's up+B didn't feel natural at first, but that's probably because my brain kept going "ah fire fox... wait, that's not fire fox!".

    Just wanna say thanks for your input. I just need to spend some time trying them out a bit more now that I have a different perspective. We'll see what happens in a month or so.
    Just venting a bit.
    Ermagerd. I have a few characters in Elite Smash, most are almost in Elite Smash. Pichu however, is just stuck around 2-3 million gsp. Hard to keep combos going, and every now and then the second teleport doesn't want to go off. I always keep thinking I'm winning, when I'm not because Pichu dies so early and the opponent always struggles to hit me. So It's kinda hard to know what I'm doing wrong.

    On a side note, I'm Buu? I'm okay with this. I've been tempted to pick up Dragon Ball Fighter Z from time to time even if it does look a bit spammy compared to other fighting games. Though my team would probably be Beerus, Hit, and Future Trunks. Have to play with some characters, perhaps I could turn into a Buu main.
    I needed a break from trying super hard to improve with stuff on my mains. Figured I'd try to get better with Kirby a bit. Gotta say, hard to approach other characters, and when they force an approach it feels so awful since anything you do they can see a mile away since Kirby is so slow. Fine with this until I run into a teabagger.

    I just got out of a match where I was getting wrecked by Ivysaur since usually I can use speed and/or range to kick Ivy's butt. However Kirby doesn't really have that luxury. Ivysaur has longer range, feels faster, has projectiles, and can nuke Kirby's recovery. Guy teabags me after my first 2 stocks. I was at 70% and was finally able to kill him with a fair. He tries to finish off my last stock, but I just "kirbycide" him in the last 2 stocks, leading him to die at 0%.

    I gotta say, I hate kirbycide, but gosh darn does it feel good to do after something like that. I love characters that have suicide/pseudo suicide KO options.
    Sometimes I wonder if I should play some other fighting game, main a character. Then once I get used to how to maximize a character in a fighting game, swap back to Smash bros to hopefully settle down on a proper main. It's so hard to stick to just one because so many fighters are fun in their unique way.
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    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    How is your icon big
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    Pokelego999
    Pokelego999
    Yeah, his icon is bugger than everyone else's.
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    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    Honestly I have no idea. This is the only icon I've ever had on Smashboards. I don't even know if I have the original anymore. I made it many years ago just for smashboards when Noivern only had a few episodes, and this was a pose I liked the most because it looks like he's scheming or something. They may have done something with images since the time I uploaded this icon.
    I sure hope the new characters don't turn out to be a Melee Sheik+Zelda situation where people only ever use the faster one. Though with how balanced the roster is now, I don't think that'll be the case. Probably not going to be mains since I never played Xenoblade 2, but they look really fun!
    Cyborg Sun
    Cyborg Sun
    Somehow, I get the feeling that the differences between Pyra and Mythra won't be as drastic as Sheik/Zelda or Samus/ZSS... time will tell, however.
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    Zachmac
    Zachmac
    Pokemon Trainer is really well balanced between the three, and thats with all three pokemon being drastically different archetypes. I'm sure both forms of Pyra will see at least some use.
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    Would it be a bad idea to duo-main :ultsephiroth:Sephiroth and :ultpichu:Pichu?

    Spoilers for reasons why I'm choosing these two. I swear it's not because they are next to each other on the banner or that I love the contrast between tough guys and something incredibly adorable interacting with each other.
    I think it's absolutely impossible for me to main a single character because of the many many times I've tried in the past with the following :linkmelee::marthmelee::fox::wolf::4link::4samus::4charizard::4cloud2::4shulk::4robinm::4rob::4metaknight::ultbyleth::ultwolf::ultridley::ultlucario::ultinklingboy::ultjoker::ultmewtwo::ultdarkpit::ultroy::ultdarksamus::ultsheik:. Sephiroth does feel like a nice mix of what it'd feel like to play a swordie, heavy (even though he's light), and a projectile user (even if it's simple compared to others0. Also I love the contrast between Sephiroth's crazy range with high end lag and Pichu's quick movements that basically requires you to touch the opponent.
    I don't know the super close details of the matchups of each character as I was basically looking around for who to main among the roster before 2021. Sephiroth made it easier to cut a lot of people out (especially fire emblem characters). So I kinda used event hubs (maybe not the most accurate but it's something) as a quick glance of what characters Sephiroth and Pichu can counter and it seems that they go even with or are favorable against everyone except :ultolimar:Olimar and :ultsnake:Snake. Though since I haven't been at top level of play, I've never struggled with these characters and can generally beat them with any character I'm using at the time since it feels like a lot of Olimar and Snake players rely on using tactics that scare most players at low to mid level play. I'd probably just use Sephiroth for these matchups because it doesn't feel that bad, but I might just use :ultwolf:Wolf as a pocket for these matchups since he was very easy to pick up and I normally don't see these two characters anyways.


    I gotta say Sephiroth feels like a combination of many characters I love playing, so he feels rather natural to me.
    Fair/back air is like :ultbyleth: Byleth, but I prefer Sephiroth's more. I highly considered maining Byleth, but after seeing Seph's gameplay, it's clear I'd rather play Sephiroth.
    Nair is similar to :ultgreninja: Greninja nair. Least character I played that I'll mention here, but that move is oddly satisfying to hit.
    Down air feels similar to the :ultyounglink: Links, especially :ulttoonlink:Toon Link. I prefer :ultlink: BOTW Link for more versatility, but I still like this kind of down air.
    Sephiroth's up air is like Ike's new up air but trading a little power for massive range..... Also for a long time I was maining Lucario and Meta Knight, so everytime I play a character with a reliable spike, it makes me very very happy since they don't have reliable spikes.

    Sephiroth's Octaslash is like a combination of what it feels like to use :ultmetaknight:Meta Knight's Dimensional cape and :ultridley: Ridley's Space Pirate Rush. Dimensional cape because it's a move that is a constant threat for the whole match since it can deal nice damage or even KO since it can travel so far anywhere. Ridley's Space Pirate rush because Octaslash drags you so far away... Also because you can do a suicide kill with it (Though Ridley doesn't need to suicide to do it, but I gained a love for suicide KOs from :4ganondorf:Smash 4 Ganondorf). Not charging it is like not attacking with Meta Knight's Dimensional cape too. Still punishable, but basically only if the opponent reads you which is very hard to do, so it makes it much easier to get to someplace safe.
    Shadow Flare is like :ultmegaman:Mega Man's Crash Bomb, which while I generally hate playing or fighting Mega Man because lemons, Crash bomb is something I find incredibly interesting because of the effects on the mental gameplay. Sephiroth's Shadow Flareis more complex and interesting. Especially since the more shadow flares you got on someone, the more likely they are to panic and I love seeing people panic. I haven't played Mega Man enough to enjoy that feeling, but just having Samus's Charge Shot charged is pretty good at replicating that.
    Flare and it's many forms is probably something that I have the least experience with because I'm used to keeping giant charged projectiles stored:ultmewtwo::ultlucario::ultdarksamus::ulthero2:. Though I've definitely played with projectile characters that charge while you are stationary and can't move :ultgreninja::4link::ultridley::ultdarkpit:. So just combine that and I'm sure I can handle it. It's been very fun using the projectile so far.
    Scintella is a counter. :marthmelee:Marth was my main in Melee, so I grew to love counters. I may not use them as much now because I know better, but it's still nice to have and Scintella is an interesting counter. Also I picked Marth specifically because he could safely outrange CPUs because they kept perfect blocking everything. Also Marth felt cool. Sephiroth is cooler, and even back in the Melee days there were times I'd pretend Marth was Sephiroth. Loving a character helps to stick with them, and thus not lose progress on improving by swapping mains.

    I absolutely love the slide down tilts, it's probably my favorite move of both :ultcloud:Cloud and :ultjoker:Joker, but I don't get the chance to use characters with slide down tilts, so I've been enjoying sliding under opponent's projectiles or barely avoiding their aerials using it with Sephiroth so far.
    I love Sephiroth's up tilt, because it's very similiar to :ultmarth:Marth's (and hero's) Up Smash. Something rewarding about landing a precisely spaced attack. Safe to say I like a lot of Sephiroth's tipper mechanics.
    I like being able to angle forward tilts, but it's not really something you can do with the other swordsmen in the game. Maybe harder, but I enjoy characters that do it more. So nice to have a sword character that can angle their forward tilt.
    Up Smash is like :ultike:Ike/:ultganondorf:Ganondorf's Up Smash and that's always fun to use.
    Forward Smash feels the most unique and I mainly love it aesthetically. Though I haven't had much trouble landing it or using it so far. The duck he does is incredibly useful when reading someone that is doing an aerial to hit the head but will land immediately after which happens surprisingly often.
    I don't get a chance to use shield breaks often, so I love Down Smash so much. So it feels great.
    Dash attack is basically :ultmewtwo:Mewtwo's dash attack. I love getting some surprise KOs with it. Though I gotta admit.... It is a bit addicting using it that it could promote a bad habit though, buuut you could say that about most things with Sephiroth.
    Of course, I love the style of Sephiroth a ton and thought he was the coolest thing ever (along with Alucard. Something about long grey haired swordsmen in a black outfit I guess... Though I prefer Sephiroth's attitude just a bit more. Something about that smirk he always has). So that'll help sticking with the character so I don't get as tempted to swap off.

    :ultpichu:Pichu just makes me feel incredibly happy whenever I play it. Something about being so small and fast with a lot of power, but you have to be careful because any stray hit could lead to your death. It's almost like playing high aura Lucario all the time, it's so intense! Like the only bad thing about Pichu is that the fast fall speed is about 30% and that makes me incredibly sad, especially since I abused :4link:Smash 4 Link's 90% fast fall speed so much (yes I love 90% increase on Joker too). It's so good for messing with the opponent!.... Also not getting the second teleport when playing online against a laggy opponent is pretty lame.
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    Zachmac
    Zachmac
    I'd say they'd work decently together. Sepniroth hates characters that can get up in his face and mash at him, but Pichu tends to beat those characters at their own game.

    I'd say the one common weakness is that fast superheavies (namely Charizard and Bowser) can kill them both really early, but those match ups are more explosive then flat out bad as both Sephiroth and Pichu have their own advantages against heavies.

    The most important thing of course is that you just play the characters you like playing as. Ultimate is a pretty balanced game and match ups don't matter as much as they seem like they would. If Sephiroth and Pichu are who you like then go for it.
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    Keeshu
    Keeshu
    Yeah. I think for once I finally feel satisfied with the characters I've chosen to duo main. Time will tell though, since I haven't spent the most time with either. Though I'm forcing myself to stick with them for the duration of 2021 so I will at least be good with them.

    If that fails....I'll probably be looking at a large chunk of the roster again:
    :ultbyleth::ultfalcon::ultcloud::ultcorrin::ultdoc::ultduckhunt::ultfalco::ultfox::ultgreninja::ulthero2::ulticeclimbers::ultike::ultincineroar::ultinklingboy::ultisabelle::ultjoker::ultkirby::ultlink::ultlucario::ultmario::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultroy::ultchrom::ultmegaman::ultmetaknight::ultmewtwo::ultmiifighters::ultgnw::ultness::ultolimar::ultpacman::ultpalutena::ultdarkpit::ultpokemontrainer::ultridley::ultrob::ultrobin::ultryu::ultken::ult_terry::ultdarksamus::ultsheik::ultshulk::ultrichter::ultsnake::ultsonic::ulttoonlink::ultyounglink::ultwiifittrainerm::ultwolf::ultyoshi::ultzss:
    Yeah it's like half the roster, but I literally enjoy all the characters because they bring something unique. Hence why I gotta force myself. ^_^"
    Fox and Sephiroth (2 characters I'm considering maining right now). Which is better for learning all the general tech in the game that would be transferable to other characters? Stuff like RARs, Short Hop Fast Fall aerials, b-reverses, Dash cancel into walk, etc..
    What about other characters in the roster?
    How long do you think someone should spend trying to main a character before they try swapping to another character to see if another character would be a better main?

    Spoiler for big ramble on why I asked this:
    I've been around since before Melee was released. Only started getting competitive when Smash 4 was announced. I spent most of that game trying everyone out until I got competent enough to pocket them until I realized I could learn more effectively if I mained a character first before trying everyone out. So I picked :4metaknight:Meta Knight since he was the only character I wanted in smash at the time, and then I played him until I got totally burnt out for several reasons. Afraid of being burnt out again, I decided to do a 100 matches with every character challenge to get a decent understanding. Pace was too slow since I only got through about 10 characters before Ultimate got announced.

    Early Ultimate I was too sleep deprived to remember much about changes or the new characters and I didn't realize how bad it was until my brain would randomly wake up from time to time when I was playing :ultwolf:Wolf (who I was testing out for a long time) and just absolutely obliterate my opponents who were previously destroying me, until someone mentions I'm kicking butt and then I'd go back to my sleepy state again and get destroyed some more. So I had to take a break, during that break I got into VR. VR forced me to get more sleep because some games I couldn't play since some VR games are very relaxing. So now I've been getting proper sleep, and things that took me weeks or months to try to do earlier, were now easily learned within a few hours/days depending on what it was. I did practice with Lucario for a while, but it was maining practicing short hops, but slowly overtime had a bad sleep schedule so I had to fix it again. Now it's fixed and I'm trying to do smash again.

    Struggling with a sleep schedule now because it's hard to find time for smash, but starting 2021 I'm going on a strict schedule that'll allow me to squeeze in 45 minutes of Smash everyday. Planning on maining :ultfox:Fox for 20th anniversary of playing Smash and I feel bad for not giving him more love because he was the biggest character that drew me to smash (and Nintendo) because of how he is portrayed in 64+Melee, and he was originally going to be my first main. Now I have the reaction time to play him, and I'm not dealing with constant perfect blocking CPUs. Also Fox just so happens to seem to be very helpful with trying to speed up my inputs since he's so fast. Especially with short hops which after trying to play with them previously, I'm getting close to doing them reliably.

    After 2021 I'm going back to looking for a main. At this time I'm thinking 1 month per character. Though I don't know if that's too much, or if I should go bi-weekly, or even weekly.

    Though still a couple weeks before 2021 so I might ditch Fox yet again for one of these others:
    :ultmario:Mario - Very basic character. Anything he can do can probably be applied to most of the cast. Perhaps Doc instead for less inputs that are more deliberate, also Doc will have extra motivation to speed up using any general techniques available. Little worried they might be too bland and basic, though on the flip side that might make it easier to focus on the more important things that can be applied to everyone.
    :ultlink::ultyounglink: Links - BOTW Link can be surprisingly fast due to his nair and 90% fast fall speed. Also playing him will cause me to be very used to zair-drops as other characters that use zair drop combos don't seem to be as good for learning inputs. Young Link loses the ability to zair drop and trades it for faster speed overall. Might be a good trade since zair drop stuff is rather niche outside of characters that can spawn items and might be good to only learn that when doing matchup stuff. Toon Link seems too projectile heavy, so it'll be harder to use the more general tech that everyone uses.
    :ultpichu:Pichu - Very combo intense so inputs will definitely get better. Unfortunately for some reason Pichu has a slower fast fall than other characters, so hopefully that doesn't let me be lazy about short hops. Pichu being so light and hurting itself will make me consider my options more as well. I prefer Pichu over Pikachu, even though Pikachu is a heck of a lot easier due to Pika's range. If I play them I will have to restrict myself from thunderbolt spam and quick attack shenanigans to improve since they can absolutely nullify some things that characters that makes them unique.
    :ultfalcon: Captain Falcon - What better way to practice inputs than with the face of smash? He seems like a versatile character, or at least it feels that way when watching Fatality play him.
    :ulticeclimbers:Ice Climbers - Inputs are what I need to practice more than anything. Ice Climbers are nuts with inputs, so they'd probably make learning new characters feel like a cakewalk. Though I'm not sure if they could use general tech as much because I don't know if the heavy emphasis on de-syncs will allow for that.
    :ultsheik:Sheik - A very rewarding character for good inputs. However if I were to consistently do bad with this character I would judge myself more harshly than any other character since I view Sheik as a character that rewards good play more than most characters. With that said, she's always fun to play, even if I'm losing.
    :ultmarth:Marth - I've come a long way since my Melee days, I could make Marth much better now. Only problem is that Marth doesn't seem all that input intensive, I don't see much to learn from him. Roy could teach me to be a bit more aggressive, but still I'm not sure if they are good to learn or not.
    :ultdarkpit:Pits - Similar to the Mario situation. However my knowledge on Pits is more limited because I don't see them as much.... With that said Dark Pit is currently the first and only character I have in Elite Smash... Good sleep, and healthy diet does wonders for making it feel like you have cheats on. Hopefully I can stick to that in 2021
    :ultzss:Zero Suit Samus - Definitely gets plenty of use of b-reverse tech. I don't know her that well but I assume she'd help with inputs because she's so fast.
    :ultsonic:Sonic - The fastest, but b-reverse is much more specific to use compared to ZSS.
    :ultlucario:Lucario - A slowish character, but he benefits more from b-reverse tech than most characters. He needs to short hop because he's too floaty and slow to keep up otherwise. So playing him would always be forcing me to improve my speed that could be applied to other characters, since faster characters can get away with not doing options that speed them up more. Also aura makes me focus for the whole match since while it can be a comeback, the opponent can easily destroy you before the aura gets high enough to do anything in Ultimate.
    :ultwolf:Wolf - Like Fox, very basic, but can be hard to master. However, it can probably be harder to try to improve with Wolf because he is such an easy character to pick up since he's so good.
    :ultgreninja:Greninja - Feels kinda like Sheik where they are fast and a lot of inputs, but everything is much more deliberate due to the startup of moves being much slower.
    :ultryu::ultken::ult_terry: - Inputs? Ryu, Ken and Terry are all about that. Ken seems like hard mode, Terry seems like easy mode, and Ryu seems like a nice in-between. Though playing Ryu or Ken will probably give a much stronger sense of control due to the many inputs and because they have a bigger emphasis on light and heavy attacks. Question is, will this control help at learning other characters?
    :ultinklingboy: Inkling - Fast character = good inputs? They might have a bit more cheesiness compared to other characters here though. I haven't played with them enough, so I feel like I'm missing something when I fight Inkling players because it feels like they aren't doing something to speed up the character.
    :ultridley:Ridley - I know he's a big body with laggy moves, but he does have an emphasis on spacing like Marth, and he can still do b-reverse stuff (Though not sure how useful it is with him right now) and make use of general tech to improve speed. Also I was on the Ridley hype train for years. Was surprised to see him added into the game so perfectly... Minus up+B, but I understand why it is the way it is. When I was picking up Ridley it drove me nuts though because of the few times I've played Fox in the past.
    :ultjoker:Joker - Seems like a good character for learning inputs. Also he has 90% fast fall speed like Link which is a plus. Though he is top tier and I've had a pretty easy time winning with him, especially if I want to bait the opponent so they trigger arsene. So it could be hard to stay focused on learning to improve with him.
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