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Glubbfubb
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  • Would you say 14 fighters would be a good enough starting roster for an indie plat-fighter game? That is the amount I am aiming for, not too big or small.
    Here is an interesting question, what do you think is the WORST DESIGNED CHARACTER you have ever seen in a fighting game, they are not just bad but DISFUNCTIONALLY bad, and tell me why
    I think each character in my Platfighter can have one of 3 selectable Overmax Attacks, basically the Final Smash equivalents, instead of Smash Balls you can use Overmax Attacks by filling up a meter, sorta like a normal Hyper Attack you see in a typical fighting game. Aside from picking on which Overmax Attack you want to use out of 3, you also have the option of performing it manually or automatically; manually means you have to use a combo input to use the attack, while automatically means you just need to press the Special button to activate this. The choice is less one-sided as once you have your Overmax Attack ready in automatic mode, you are locked out of your Neutral Special until you use it, which can lock some characters out of potential combos, especially if said Neutral Special can be a good lead into the Overmax Attack you chose. Each Overmax Attack also takes a certain amount of meter energy to be usable, some taking more meter than others. Overmax Attacks are not solely offensive moves, you can also have defensive Overmax Attacks such as ones that temporarily give you super armor, ones that heal you a specific amount, and ones that improve your mobility. How does that sound so far?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Selected before you start, sorta like Street Fighter Alpha/4/Etc, you have 3 different Overmax Attacks you can choose from, but only one of those can be used as your actual attack in battle
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    This kinda reminds me of how SFIII handles this actually, it looks hella interesting - though, one thing to note is that you'd need to ensure all of your Overmaxes are, like, balanced. Otherwise you end up with Remy's Blue Nocturne Super Art which - on the one hand, conceptually makes some sense (as a defensive super for a defensive character), but on the other hand, sucks ass (being a counter move, so like, nobody's going to hit you, then your meter drains, and you're back at square one.)

    With that in mind, while defensive Overmaxes could totally work, it's essential to make sure they work well.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    The two defensive Overmax attacks I have in mind so far were going to have one fighter gain an afterimage in front of herself, like Zero's afterimages in Mega Man X5 to those who played the game, not only can it absorb projectiles but it also copies your exact movements, and attacks, and so with some maneuvering, you can use this move to juggle combos onto opponents. The other defensive Overmax attack is for my "final boss" character, normally when you fight them as a boss they have super armor and act as an SNK boss, but with this Overmax attack you can become that SNK boss, and gain super armor, but only for like 6-7 seconds, since this character is a slow bulky grappler, this move allows them to go and close the distance more easily.
    What makes a good twist villain in your eyes, like I have three types of villains in my story, the villain behind the villain, a villain who is actually heroic, and a heroic looking person who is actually a giant vile piece of work and Jack Horner levels evil, these are the main antagonists for my platfighter game
    osby
    osby
    I don't know if it's necessarily the best way to do but I like it when twists villains are characters you don't want to be villains. Whether it's because they're likable, strong, or charismatic, I think it makes a very effective twist when a character that the audience wants to believe is heroic turns out to be an antagonist. I feel like those types of villains work even when you see the betrayal coming because you try to convince yourself that they can't be bad.
    CapitaineCrash
    CapitaineCrash
    Disney/Pixar have a lot of twists vilains and I would say they're really hit or miss, but one that really stuck with me is the one from Coco. Movie spoiler Ernesto de la Cruz is pretty much what Osby is describing, he's a character that you want to believe is likeable, but the more the movie goes the more you truly realise that he actually have no redeeming factor and the viewer start to really hate the character like the protagonist would.
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    fogbadge
    fogbadge
    didn't you work it out?
    In my Platfighter, I'm considering making my Arcade/Adventure to work sorta like Smash Run, defeat enemies to gain xp to make your attacks stronger and try and be strong enough to fight event bosses, there is a typical Classic mode too but the main "story" mode of the game is more like Smash Run
    I thought of this opening naration for my Platfighter, how does it look:

    The year is 278X, the age of interstellar exploration and civilization. An era where many alien species mingle together in relative harmony and peace. However that peace became broken when what was supposed to be the maiden voyage of the most ambitious ship of all time, the Double Sigma, manned by twin Android AIs LAMBDA and EPSILON, was lost with no sign of its location. While in the moment people morned this great tragedy, it eventually became just another ship lost to time.

    Now the year is 287X, and a crack in the universe caused the Double Sigma to return to space, however one of the androids, EPSILON is now threatening a galactic wide war alongside strange creatures of the void. As a result of this crisis the governments of the universe decide to send out their best soilders to raid the ship. News of this crisis has also spread to bounty hunters and other strange individuals, who decide to enter this ship to get the riches within. With LAMBDA here to assist these unlikely heroes, who will take down EPSILON.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    So how does this opening sound, does this work for a platfighter
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    I think it sounds interesting! One thing I'd probably suggest is maybe having two X's in the years (akin to the Mega Man series)? That way it's a little more readable at a glance - ie, 27XX & 28XX. I also really like the use of Greek letters for names - it's a trope I'm a big fan of, honestly. I will say - given this is set in an interstellar setting, do be careful not to have all of your stages just be "grey spaceship interior" or "space background"! There's plenty of potential for ways to handle different planets and the like, even if you take the Star Wars approach of taking inspiration from real-world biomes.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    I was thinking the Double Sigma was designed as a seed vault of sorts, so when it returns parts of the ship have become overrun with strange foliage, kinda making it like the ship from Metroid Fusion, just without the alien parasites and more eldiritch abominations
    Tiering placements aside do you think Ryu, Terry, and Kazuya's movesets make a good fine line between traditional fighting game characters and plat-fighter characters, in other words, do their movesets do you think the devs do a good job converting traditional fighting game mechanics to a plat-fighter, to the extent you would play an entire game where EVERYONE had Ryu/Terry/Kazuya styled movesets
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Personally, I wouldn't be into it if it was effectively pulled straight from them - but this is less because of the pure mechanics, more because of their limited mobility. They're a lot slower and have more rigid jumps than the rest of the cast, so they feel less... mobile. That said, I think the fighting game mechanics they bring (such as command inputs, light/heavy attacks, even facing an opponent by default) could work well if combined with the more fluid gameplay of the rest of the cast.
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah of course the physics will be more fluid, it's just how their movesets are set-up that I am curious about, not their physics and tiering placements
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    I think it could be interesting! Personally, if I were doing it - I'd probably go for a system more akin to, like, Match of the Millenium (remove the special button completely, have a punch and a kick button, tap/hold light/heavy system, command normals & command specials, Multiversus/Brawlhalla walljumps) but if it were based specifically on Smash's moveset system, I'd still find it pretty interesting.

    ...though the eight-way shield system from Combo Devils might make sense to add too?
    Do you think being the main character in a fighting game has to make said character very basic in terms of moveset?
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, my cast will comprise a combination of bounty hunters, killer androids, mutants, eldritch horrors, and magitek users, my main character is a magitek user and think of her as a combo of Robin due to having a mana bar mechanic, Ganondorf for using dark magic and being the inspiration for some of her physical attacks, and Fox for being both fast and heavy
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Random thought on that actually: I know a lot of platfighters tend to do meters, but something I think would maybe make sense for more meters is to have a segmented one of some kind. It'd probably allow for a more obvious visual indicator of how much meter something uses (ie, one "bar" instead of "ech roughly a fifth"). Plus, if you were going for magitek... a battery icon could be a really fun UI element.



    Something like this - using magic-based attacks could maybe drain a "bar", the "bars" fill up over time and flash when a new one is full, you get the idea. I just feel like it'd be more user-friendly (and more fitting for the actual character!) to go for something like this as a meter lol (though maybe with more individual bars if some of their normals partially drain the battery!)
    darkvortex
    darkvortex
    Akira Virtua fighter is a weird case. You'd think he's be the basic starter character because he looks so much like Ryu, but he actually has a very complex moveset
    My OCD brain spent a bit analyzing Dan Hibiki's Gadouken (the small green fireballs he shoots) and I quite like the concept and think it can be used for a serious setting. A move of one of my characters is a chargeable energy ball that the longer they charge the farther it shoots out, however, the farther they shoot out the fewer ticks of damage the ball will give, so its best sometimes to not charge it and only shoot it barely in front of you to rack up more damage ticks. Does an attack like that make sense and could work ,like a platfighter?
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    An attack that immediately springs to mind as something similar (that might work as a sort of analogue to a "serious Gadouken") is Laura's Thunder Clap in Street Fighter V - a very slow-moving projectile with minimal range, intended to set up mix-ups and pressure while warding off projectiles from a ranged opponent.

    With that in mind, I think the idea of a short-range projectile with bigger damage up close does have uses - but it wouldn't be used like a traditional projectile (ie, Hadouken) to apply pressure long-range, rather, probably be focused on mid-range mixups. Though, having the projectile be charged might kind of limit that use case?

    Personally, though this is just me - I'd have it so that charging the projectile only increases the range, and that the damage decreases based on distance as opposed to how much it's charged (meaning an uncharged version would deal the same damage as a charged version, just with less range.)

    It gives it the best of both worlds in some ways - still has (limited) zoning potential and could be used like that, but works better for mid-range mixups, as well as providing a neat element of personality akin to Sakura or Sean's take on the shoto archetype (ie, "I can't do exactly what you do, but I'll add my own spin on it to make it my own thing")
    Glubbfubb
    Glubbfubb
    Yeah, I feel like that idea is the best execution for such a move.
    So exactly is a Pupper and Stance Fighter in a fighting game, those are the two archetypes I just don't get the most
    Wario Wario Wario
    Wario Wario Wario
    Puppet - fighter who has control of another, usually smaller and weaker fighter, who works in tandem. Think Rosalina.
    Stance fighter - transformation/character swap. Think Shulk/Pokemon Trainer/Melee Zelda
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    Additionally - being archetypes, it's possible for them to be played around with a little.

    Puppet fighters, for instance, can sometimes be characterised as characters with particularly controllable projectiles or spacing options (for instance, Venom's pre-programmed projectiles in Guilty Gear might count here) - or alternatively, a character might have a puppet tool, but as it's not the focus of their moveset, they're not seen as a "puppet fighter" (2B in SoulCalibur) - but as W3 said, they tend to be a smaller and weaker fighter of sorts who may have similar abilities to the user (Miss Fortune in Skullgirls). Gameplay-wise, they tend to rely on using their "puppet" at mid-to-long range to either keep their opponent spaced away from them by effectively extending their range (with their "main body" being comparably weak), or as a tool to force opponents to approach. (Or, if you're talking about HFTF or P4A, most of the cast have a puppet mechanic built-in due to their use of Stands and Personas respectively.)

    Alternately, while Stance fighters are typically balanced around their stance, there's also different ways of handling them. The Smash series mostly does so with character-swaps, but tradfighter stance characters tend to just take on a new fighting style with new properties and animations (Gen in Street Fighter). As a general rule, each stance will be fairly specialised in a given use, which should balance out the character as a whole. Though, it should be noted that some games have "stances" as a universal mechanic (Virtua Fighter 5), which is considered different - that'll differ from game to game, obviously.
    Question: if a Grappler-type fighter has a projectile attack, does that not make them a Grappler in your eyes, giving examples of Grappler-type fighters with projectile attacks from actual video games would be nice for examples sake
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    That'd honestly be a lot of fun - I think it'd need some fine-tuning to line up at a good balance spot, but it'd be interesting to play as. Plus, the hit-and-run and grappler archetypes do have that shared similarity of their gameplay (get in and get out) albeit with different approaches and goals, so it'd be neat to see that more.
    ZephyrZ
    ZephyrZ
    I'd love to see DK given his barrel throw, preferably as a new side special. If it moves slowly it could be effective for covering approaches but weak in terms of zoning.
    osby
    osby
    Well, not sure about the frail part but King of Fighters's Shermie is a fast grappler whose defense isn't the best... but she's considered one of the best characters in KOF XV for that. A quick character who benefits from your opponent's guards is a pretty strong combination.

    As for a grappler character who uses projectiles and status effects, Kanji from Persona 4 Arena comes to mind. He has fast and hard-hitting grabs, huge normal attacks, and skills that can immobilize his foes completely. These are balanced with him being quite slow and dependent on his Persona.
    What is the weirdest non-Shrek game to have a thriving competitive scene in your opinion
    Do you think it's antithetical to make a plat-fighter with characters whose movesets comprise of a traditional fighting game moveset, like think everyone on the roster is like Kazuya/Terry/Ryu
    Name a character who you hate but like their powerset/concept and wish they were given to a different character:

    D'vorah from Mortal Kombat, I like her insect powers and poison abilities, hate her role in the story, but I do wish she gets a more fleshed out and improved spiritual successor in MK1
    Man I wish Mario Kart 8 wasn't so expensive to get, I am itching for a good racing game to play online.
    Hot Take:
    Dry Dry Desert is an unironically good Mario Kart course, agree or disagree
    I made a realization for my self, I prefer smaller games over big budget tripple a games, mainly since I can store more of the former and the former seems to have more entertainment value
    Any reason why the Gamecube is always abbreviated as GCN despite not having an N in its name? Why not GCB? I feel like that's more natural.
    So why was Jigglypuff in the initial Smash Bros roster instead of someone like Charizard or Mewtwo?
    Would you rather have a very large but imbalanced roster in a fighting game, or a small but condensed roster?
    Perkilator
    Perkilator
    Somewhere in the middle; a decent amount of fighters with a balance in their strengths and weaknesses.
    nirvanafan
    nirvanafan
    Honestly i dont play competitively or anything so i would lean towards option 1.
    KneeOfJustice99
    KneeOfJustice99
    For me, it depends on the type of fighting game. If characters all feel really unique and have their own mechanics and feel that's really distinct, I'd absolutely be fine with a smaller but more condensed roster of that kind (akin to what you see in a lot of ArcSys games.) That said, if it's a game where characters are more similar in function (like platfighters!) then a larger roster is a lot more fun to experiment with.

    Even so, I don't think fighting games need larger rosters to be "good". It's just nice to have the option!
    Does anyone play Marvel vs Capcom 3?
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    Perkilator
    Perkilator
    I used to back in 2017 on the PS4 version, but I wound up just going to the Simple control scheme because I didn’t want to learn the command inputs.

    After watching Lythero’s videos, however, I want to start properly learning how to play the game.
    fogbadge
    fogbadge
    I’ve played it
    dezeray112
    dezeray112
    I still have both Fate of Two Worlds and Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 on the PS3.

    I really do hope there will be a new Marvel Vs Capcom game in the future, but who knows?
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